To Keto or Not To Keto?

kmbrooks15

I don't think I could stick to keto. I have PCOS, and the recommended macros for PCOS are 20% carbs, 40% fat, 40% protein, and that works for me. My trainer also highly recommended NOT doing keto because of the lack of sustainability. I tend to agree. I could probably do it for a short amount of time, but I will have to eat low carb permanently to maintain my weight due to PCOS, so I think keto would not work for me. I've lost 18.6 pounds in a little over two months doing the 20% carbs, so I think what I'm doing is working, so I'm sticking with it.

kmbrooks15

ninerbuff wrote: »

ALL DIETS work if you follow their programs correctly and consistently. It's when you go off them that they don't work. Personally I tell all my clients NOT to diet. I tell them to use this app and count calories and be consistent. I look at their diaries and we tweek things up when they aren't progressing.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

This is what my trainer is doing. She has access to my diary and will make suggestions on new foods to try or things to tweak. So far I have not needed any major tweaks to what I'm eating, so it's working!

JoPat409

The very word “diet” suggests something short term. At some point you have to find something that you can maintain or lose weight with. For some people it’s never ending different diets. If that works great. I had to get to a place where I just ate less and accept that I might feel hungry at times of the day. But it passes. And most times it passes fast. Once I got over that hurdle I found it much easier to eat less.

refactored

I have been told by a renal specialist to not do keto after my blood tests showed impaired kidney function. My concern with keto is how acidic it can make urine which in turn can lead to kidney stones. Also because kidney disease can occur in the absence of any symptoms, I would think it would be reasonable to have blood tests every 6 months to monitor kidney function of you do choose to do keto.

Here is pdf of a recent review and meta-analysis: https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9721/9/2/39/pdf

It concluded ...

The estimated incidence of kidney stones in patients on ketogenic diets is 5.9%. Its incidence is approximately 5.8% in children and 7.9% in adults. Uric acid stones are the most prevalent kidney stones in patients on ketogenic diets followed by calcium-based stones. These findings may impact the prevention and clinical
management of kidney stones in patients on ketogenic diets.

As always the study does have its limitations and these are outlined in the paper. Hopefully there will be more research into this area so people can be informed of the risks.

GaleHawkins

refactored wrote: »

I have been told by a renal specialist to not do keto after my blood tests showed impaired kidney function. My concern with keto is how acidic it can make urine which in turn can lead to kidney stones. Also because kidney disease can occur in the absence of any symptoms, I would think it would be reasonable to have blood tests every 6 months to monitor kidney function of you do choose to do keto.

Here is pdf of a recent review and meta-analysis: https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9721/9/2/39/pdf

It concluded ...

The estimated incidence of kidney stones in patients on ketogenic diets is 5.9%. Its incidence is approximately 5.8% in children and 7.9% in adults. Uric acid stones are the most prevalent kidney stones in patients on ketogenic diets followed by calcium-based stones. These findings may impact the prevention and clinical
management of kidney stones in patients on ketogenic diets.

As always the study does have its limitations and these are outlined in the paper. Hopefully there will be more research into this area so people can be informed of the risks.

You may want to follow the medical advice of your doctor.

You do understand your linked info is without actionable results. May-, Estimated terms shows a lot of guessing. How many stone were found in the control groups?

refactored

It wasn't a randomised control trial (RCT). It was based on a review of other studies that included retrospectives. I think the point is that the potential risk of kidney stones with keto isn't will studied. Would there really be much funding for such an RCT anyway?

Cstratton82

Yes...if you are going to do it your entire life. Like EVERY diet if it is temporary your results will also be temporary!

LeavingBusy

I just started keto, but within my daily calorie allowance. What I discovered is that I am satisfied with the food I’m eating and feel satiated. On other macro combinations I’m feeling starved all the time. Some days My hunger is so diminished that I leave calories uneaten. Gasp!
I have a higher chance of being successful long term eating this way because I don’t h feel like I’m starving to death which creates a diet-sabatoging binging backlash.
Not going to lie, I’m already missing potatoes and pasta but obviously those foods trigger my appetite.

Hiawassee88

ninerbuff wrote: »

ALL DIETS work if you follow their programs correctly and consistently. It's when you go off them that they don't work. Personally I tell all my clients NOT to diet. I tell them to use this app and count calories and be consistent. I look at their diaries and we tweek things up when they aren't progressing.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

"It's when you go off them that they don't work." Truer words were never spoken.

Two words. Portion control.

No one can talk you out of keto if you really want to. @LeavingBusy Missing potatoes and pasta? Wait until the keto is finished and then fall right back into the foods that you have always eaten. Cross your fingers or hope that you will never find them appetizing ever again. Gut it out until you can't.

Rebound weight gain with friends will marsh a mellow. Starting over and over, again. Any food can trigger the appetite if it's genuine hunger. Why not throw all of the dieting out with the bathwater. Learn to sit in your life with the foods you love. Portion control it, waaaay into the future. There's no finish line with portion control.

paperpudding

I just started keto, but within my daily calorie allowance. What I discovered is that I am satisfied with the food I’m eating and feel satiated. On other macro combinations I’m feeling starved all the time. Some days My hunger is so diminished that I leave calories uneaten. Gasp!

Not sure the point of the gasp! as if this is a source of pride or joy - one is actually suppossed to eat to one's calorie allowance not aim to go under or leave calories uneaten ( on average and approximately, of course)

I also noted you say you just started keto- It seems this honeymoon phase is common with many people on any new diet, not just keto - where they don't feel hungry at first because the novelty and enthusiasm of change.
Something to be aware of.

BuellerFerrisBueller

The Keto Diet is very polarizing. Everyone sees it as the biggest revelation ever or as snake oil. There's very little middle ground.

I'm a vote against the Keto Diet. If carbs were as fattening as the Keto proponents claimed, I'd be on _My 600 Pound Life_. Instead, I'm about the same height and weight as Taylor Swift and Claudia Schiffer. (But I'm not as good-looking, as charming, or as graceful.)

What I recommend is avoiding junk food or at least minimizing your consumption of it. The various polarized dietary factions endlessly argue about so many things, but they all agree that refined sugars, refined grains, high fructose corn syrup, artificial sweeteners (like aspartame), deep-fried vegetable seed oils, hydrogenated fats, and FD&C coloring chemicals are bad for your health.

Hiawassee88

Ooo dear. You won't find everyone in agreement here about refined sugars, refined grains, HFCS, artificial sweeteners.....
We have some pasta and pizza eaters that would tell how the cow ate the cabbage and clean your clock. The unvarnished truth about rice and noodles, pizza and pasta washed down with a diet soda. I'll wait for one to come along, shortly.

paperpudding

The Keto Diet is very polarizing. Everyone sees it as the biggest revelation ever or as snake oil. There's very little middle ground.

No I dont think that is true at all
Not on MFP at any rate
Many posters who do keto can recognise it isnt for everyone or the pros and cons of it and many people who do not do keto can recognise the benifiit of it for others

Speaking for myself I dont see it as the biggest revelation ever or snake oil.
I do see it as a way of eating that works for some people sometimes but is also a bit of a trendy fad for others

you seem to be trying to make a false dichotomy that is not really there.

JaysFan82

I've never seen someone do Keto and successfully keep the weight off longterm and my office is full of people who've attempted it.

paperpudding

MFP has several members who have done so though.

JaysFan82

Oh I believe you, but I don't know them personally.

Hiawassee88

We've gotten caught up in the trap that less is more. It's not enough to eat the foods we like, they must be better quality foods. We have to eat low carb and then push that into no carb. Add some intermittent fasting and extend the hours into days that we fast.

Less is more until it's not. The way we eat sets the rhythms for everything else. Stress, sleep and movement.
If you can't sleep, some compensate with more food and/or caffeine. It may affect movement and leave you with less energy to do everything else. The cycles continue.

"ALL DIETS work if you follow their programs correctly and consistently. It's when you go off them that they don't work. Personally I tell all my clients NOT to diet. " @ninerbuff

After 5 years, about 5% of people on-non surgical weight loss programs can keep off the weight. With weight loss surgery it's 7% even with procedures like the gastric bypass. There's no such thing as a free lunch for those wanting to maintain long term weight stability. It takes focus and wrestling with ourselves. Start coasting and it can easily go out the window.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18392907/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5764193/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3901982/

Camps, S. G., Verhoef, S. P., & Westerterp, K. R. (2013). Weight loss, weight maintenance, and adaptive thermogenesis. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 97(5), 990–994. https://doi.org/10.3945/ajcn.112.050310

Castellanos, E. H., Charboneau, E., Dietrich, M. S., Park, S., Bradley, B. P., Mogg, K., & Cowan, R. L. (2009). Obese adults have visual attention bias for food cue images: evidence for altered reward system function. International Journal of Obesity, 33(9), 1063–1073. https://doi.org/10.1038/ijo.2009.138

de Ridder, D. T. D., Lensvelt-Mulders, G., Finkenauer, C., Stok, F. M., & Baumeister, R. F. (2012). Taking stock of self-control: a meta-analysis of how trait self-control relates to a wide range of behaviors. Personality and Social Psychology Review, 16(1), 76–99. https://doi.org/10.1177/1088868311418749

DeLany, J. P., Kelley, D. E., Hames, K. C., Jakicic, J. M., & Goodpaster, B. H. (2014). Effect of physical activity on weight loss, energy expenditure, and energy intake during diet induced weight loss. Obesity, 22(2), 363–370. https://doi.org/10.1002/oby.20525

Doucet, E., St-Pierre, S., Alméras, N., & Tremblay, A. (2003). Relation between appetite ratings before and after a standard meal and estimates of daily energy intake in obese and reduced obese individuals. Appetite, 40(2), 137–143. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0195-6663(02)00143-5

lemurcat2

paperpudding wrote: »

The Keto Diet is very polarizing. Everyone sees it as the biggest revelation ever or as snake oil. There's very little middle ground.

No I dont think that is true at all
Not on MFP at any rate
Many posters who do keto can recognise it isnt for everyone or the pros and cons of it and many people who do not do keto can recognise the benifiit of it for others

Speaking for myself I dont see it as the biggest revelation ever or snake oil.
I do see it as a way of eating that works for some people sometimes but is also a bit of a trendy fad for others

you seem to be trying to make a false dichotomy that is not really there.

Exactly this.

I have a generally positive view of keto as a diet that can be done healthfully and that for some is an easier or more pleasant way to have a deficit. Personally, I prefer to eat somewhat low carb (not because I think carbs are inherently fattening, calories are calories when it comes to weight loss), but because I tend to prefer eating that way, especially when at a deficit.

neanderthin

I've been low carb basically since 1998 and have maintained my weight effortlessly for the most part while losing 50 lbs in that initial transition without tracking calories. I tried Keto a few times but it required me to monitor carbs and protein which I did with intermittently checking ketones and the end result was I didn't feel or see any benefit, so I just stick to my original plan and no monitoring.

DFW_Tom

Strict keto is hard to do, but is a good way to transition to a low carb eating style. Keto for a couple of months -> relatively low carb permanently. Whatever it takes to get away from too much sugar and eating processed, commercially prepared mixes. Everyone's digestion of carbs differ. Some, like LeavingBusy, "gasp" at the realization that they can start loosing weight without being on a portion restriction plan that leaves them miserable when they try Keto.

The "calorie in-calorie out" method of controlling portions while eating "healthy" is far too simplistic for today's cheap, easy and highly refined standard American diet. The type of calories consumed plays a key role of being able to control portions for many. Any attempt to reduce weight by a change in eating style is doomed to failure if it can not be a permanent, life long change.