Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

"Unrealistic" body goals

16781012

Replies

  • FitAgainBy55
    FitAgainBy55 Posts: 179 Member
    I've always felt that striving for a stretch goal and possibly coming up a little short is better than self limiting to some mediocre, easily achievable goal. I know everyone is different but I personally don't limit myself by my age and I believe that I can get back very close to my profile picture from 6 years ago at age 55. I never had a six pack in my 20s and 30s but "accidentally" achieved that goal in my mid 40s. I had no reason to believe that I could achieve something in my 40s that I had failed to achieve in my 20s and 30s but I managed to achieve it anyway. I was never willing to accept that I was limited by age ... no reason to start now. Will I be successful ? I truly believe that I will. What if I come up a little short ? That's fine too, I'll be better off than where I started at the end of last year.
  • AndreaTamira
    AndreaTamira Posts: 272 Member
    I've always felt that striving for a stretch goal and possibly coming up a little short is better than self limiting to some mediocre, easily achievable goal. I know everyone is different but I personally don't limit myself by my age and I believe that I can get back very close to my profile picture from 6 years ago at age 55. I never had a six pack in my 20s and 30s but "accidentally" achieved that goal in my mid 40s. I had no reason to believe that I could achieve something in my 40s that I had failed to achieve in my 20s and 30s but I managed to achieve it anyway. I was never willing to accept that I was limited by age ... no reason to start now. Will I be successful ? I truly believe that I will. What if I come up a little short ? That's fine too, I'll be better off than where I started at the end of last year.

    In contrast I believe in striving for a closer goal that you feel relatively sure you can achieve and then reevaluating if you want to set a new goal. - I don't like falling short of my goals. It is one of the few things that truly can leave me deflated and too frustrated to easily pick myself up again. So, one step I know I can manage, then the thought "I did nanagd this as planned. Maybe I can go further".

    In the end both our strategies may lead to achieving just as much. But yours would probably not work for me and vice versa.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,494 Member
    edited March 2021
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Lietchi wrote: »
    My weight issues have/had nothing to do with food addiction, that's why. And I'm sure that's the case for many obese people.

    Well, if it wasn't caused by food addiction, then what was it caused by?

    I'd also like to point out that a hallmark of addiction is denial. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case for you, I'm just saying it's a fact in general.
    Reminds me of a former coworker who was surprised to learn that I like vegetables, another one of those prejudiced notions about overweight/obese people.

    I know plenty of overweight/obese people who like vegetables.

    Not everyone who becomes obese has a "food addiction". I was just over the line of overweight into obese when I started back in 2012. I didn't have food issues or food addiction. I put on about 40-50 Lbs over the course of about 8 years. I graduated university when I was 30 and went from being a very active student that didn't own a car and walked or road my bike everywhere and worked landscape construction in the summers and in a liquor warehouse during the school year moving boxes of booze to being an accountant and sitting on my butt all day.

    My appetite has always been pretty consistent with my activity level, so I was definitely eating less working my desk job....but still slightly more than I needed to maintain weight...like basically 5-6 Lbs per year.

    Just playing devil's advocate, but if not a food addiction (and I don't believe in term in the literal, clinical sense) why did you keep eating when you noticed you pants didn't fit any more? The pleasure you got short term was perceived greater than any threat to your health or other factor?
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,494 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Lietchi wrote: »
    My weight issues have/had nothing to do with food addiction, that's why. And I'm sure that's the case for many obese people.

    Well, if it wasn't caused by food addiction, then what was it caused by?

    I'd also like to point out that a hallmark of addiction is denial. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case for you, I'm just saying it's a fact in general.
    Reminds me of a former coworker who was surprised to learn that I like vegetables, another one of those prejudiced notions about overweight/obese people.

    I know plenty of overweight/obese people who like vegetables.

    Not everyone who becomes obese has a "food addiction". I was just over the line of overweight into obese when I started back in 2012. I didn't have food issues or food addiction. I put on about 40-50 Lbs over the course of about 8 years. I graduated university when I was 30 and went from being a very active student that didn't own a car and walked or road my bike everywhere and worked landscape construction in the summers and in a liquor warehouse during the school year moving boxes of booze to being an accountant and sitting on my butt all day.

    My appetite has always been pretty consistent with my activity level, so I was definitely eating less working my desk job....but still slightly more than I needed to maintain weight...like basically 5-6 Lbs per year.

    Just playing devil's advocate, but if not a food addiction (and I don't believe in term in the literal, clinical sense) why did you keep eating when you noticed you pants didn't fit any more? The pleasure you got short term was perceived greater than any threat to your health or other factor?

    Plenty of people choose to spend more money than they have, putting them at risk for financially bad consequences in the future. That doesn't mean they are addicted to spending. It just means that maybe they made some poor choices.

    So same as the situation I described above with food. The immediate pleasure outweighs to them the threat of future financial problems.
  • kenyonhaff
    kenyonhaff Posts: 1,377 Member
    The key here is: What is "realistic"? The truth is, asking advice from random people on the Internet is going to yield a whole spectrum of answers, from excellent to "oh dear Lord no".
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...
  • Whatsthemotive
    Whatsthemotive Posts: 145 Member
    Would I like to have the body of a 20 year old who hasn’t had two children and a caesarean? You bet. But I’m 62. I can exercise up to an hour on many but not all days. I have a physical disability due to a car accident in my 20s. I have had two children and a caesarean. I have a full time job. I am responsible for doing the housework in my home. I have interests other than achieving the perfect body. I think it is healthy for me to have these other interests. I think it would be unhealthy mentally for me to make achieving the perfect body the focus of my life. (Not my place to judge what is healthy for other people). So I will work to lose weight and improve my fitness without setting “unrealistic” goals that will lead to disappointment and failure. I’ve lost 19.4 pounds since the start of the year. I’m working out 6 days a week. I’m increasing weight used as I am able and adding on time to the work out. I could barely do 15 minutes with soup cans when I started. Now I’m doing 40 minutes with 5 pound weights.

    There’s a lot more to think about than whether I COULD reach some ideal body goal. There’s the issue of whether it would be good for to devote so much of my time and energy toward reaching that goal and what it would do for me even if I did reach that goal.
  • Speakeasy76
    Speakeasy76 Posts: 961 Member
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Yep, I unfortunately know this very well. Perfectionism can even be a reason why people don't start things--if they feel they're not going to be "perfect" at it right away, why bother?

  • Whatsthemotive
    Whatsthemotive Posts: 145 Member
    Also women have organs.
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited March 2021
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,494 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.

    "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we catch excellence." - Vince Lombardi
  • Speakeasy76
    Speakeasy76 Posts: 961 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.

    As someone with perfectionistic tendencies that I've only recently come to realize has held me back/contributed to my anxiety, I don't see "good enough" as mediocre or fine. "Good enough" is a relative term, and everyone defines what there own "good enough" is. I have had to teach myself that "good enough" is okay some days, and I'm not going to the "best me" every day. That absolutely doesn't mean I'm not going to strive to better myself in areas that I feel need improving, but I also have to know when to let up on myself.
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.

    As someone with perfectionistic tendencies that I've only recently come to realize has held me back/contributed to my anxiety, I don't see "good enough" as mediocre or fine. "Good enough" is a relative term, and everyone defines what there own "good enough" is. I have had to teach myself that "good enough" is okay some days, and I'm not going to the "best me" every day. That absolutely doesn't mean I'm not going to strive to better myself in areas that I feel need improving, but I also have to know when to let up on myself.

    I agree, we all need to decide what is best for us individually. Only we know what is too much, and what is not enough. It’s highly personal.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,166 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.

    Nah, at least not for me. Not everything in life ought to be about perfection, IMO. Some things are that important; other things, good enough is good enough. Priorities allow for (near-)perfection where needful or strongly desirable, allow satisficing in other areas.

    There are a lot of things we do in life. Trying to "perfect" every single one seems a little desperate, obsessive to me. But if it works for you, go for it.

    Talking in abstractions is easy, though.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.

    As someone with perfectionistic tendencies that I've only recently come to realize has held me back/contributed to my anxiety, I don't see "good enough" as mediocre or fine. "Good enough" is a relative term, and everyone defines what there own "good enough" is. I have had to teach myself that "good enough" is okay some days, and I'm not going to the "best me" every day. That absolutely doesn't mean I'm not going to strive to better myself in areas that I feel need improving, but I also have to know when to let up on myself.

    ^^^All... Of... This...^^^
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited March 2021
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.

    Nah, at least not for me. Not everything in life ought to be about perfection, IMO. Some things are that important; other things, good enough is good enough. Priorities allow for (near-)perfection where needful or strongly desirable, allow satisficing in other areas.

    There are a lot of things we do in life. Trying to "perfect" every single one seems a little desperate, obsessive to me. But if it works for you, go for it.

    Talking in abstractions is easy, though.

    I just said I don’t believe in perfection, so what makes you think I strive for it 🤔 I just don’t settle for, meh it’s good enough. Which means something different for different people. To me, when I do that, it means I don’t care. So I won’t stop there because I do care. I typically try to do my best. Even if that means my cake looks like *kitten*, I tried lol.

    Maybe it was this...

    "That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre..."

    ... “ To me, when I do that, it means I don’t care. So I won’t stop there because I do care. I typically try to do my best. Even if that means my cake looks like *kitten*, I tried lol”

    And... “ I agree, we all need to decide what is best for us individually. Only we know what is too much, and what is not enough. It’s highly personal.”

    I just outlined what it means -to me-. I also agree with Speakeasy, because that’s what works for them. I am equally allowed to do and feel certain ways about myself as you do, right? And I don’t feel that others are wrong for their approach.
  • wunderkindking
    wunderkindking Posts: 1,615 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.

    Nah, at least not for me. Not everything in life ought to be about perfection, IMO. Some things are that important; other things, good enough is good enough. Priorities allow for (near-)perfection where needful or strongly desirable, allow satisficing in other areas.

    There are a lot of things we do in life. Trying to "perfect" every single one seems a little desperate, obsessive to me. But if it works for you, go for it.

    Talking in abstractions is easy, though.

    Yep, this.

    I am not giving 100% of myself to everything in my life. Some things, sure, but there is only so much 'try' and 'drive' in ANY person. We all make decisions about what is worth our time and energy - and everything we give to, is taking time and effort and energy away from something else. This is just simple reality. Time and energy are finite.

    Where you put them are personal decisions.

    For me? Relationships. Family. Mental and physical health. Making memories and having experiences. And even there the math shifts around sometimes.

    My physical appearance/a perfect body?

    No.

    Other people want to go ahead but for me that would be a... pitiable and sad life, and not one worth living. I'd pretty strongly dislike myself for that.

    (For me. Since we're all just talking about ourselves and judgement proof)
  • fitnessguy266
    fitnessguy266 Posts: 150 Member
    I think sometimes people need the caveat of "unrealistic" attached to their idealized body type, b/c if they keep fantasizing about this body type and don't achieve it (often ppl want to achieve it quickly), they will give up completely or have adverse psychological effects.

    So prefacing some statements with "Yes this body type is achievable, BUT isn't realistic for most people" is just honest. Are most people going to achieve the level of "professional" instagrammer bodies? No, it isn't a realistic goal for most people.

    I agree. The statements that bugged me were both to younger people, both already in decent shape regarding a flat stomach and sub 10% bf. It felt like they were imposing that caveat on other people, almost like "since I don't have the dedication, you won't either."

    My thoughts as well...now regarding the sub 10% bf, and the popular consensus that it's not sustainable or healthy long term as a "blanket statement" for all humans, is misinformation.

  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited March 2021
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Perfection can be the enemy of good. Perfection can be the enemy of good mental health.

    Right! Never let perfection get in the way of really good...

    I cringe at the word perfection. It lacks flexibility, creativity, and it’s also aged out. If we considered new technology in the 80’s/90’s to be perfect we would never innovate. We need to be progressive on our ever evolving approach to the new world unfolding before us. If you think you’re perfect or know what perfect looks like, you’re already light years behind the curve. There is no perfect. There is just evolution.

    That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre. There is no wrong or right, just personal preference.

    Nah, at least not for me. Not everything in life ought to be about perfection, IMO. Some things are that important; other things, good enough is good enough. Priorities allow for (near-)perfection where needful or strongly desirable, allow satisficing in other areas.

    There are a lot of things we do in life. Trying to "perfect" every single one seems a little desperate, obsessive to me. But if it works for you, go for it.

    Talking in abstractions is easy, though.

    I just said I don’t believe in perfection, so what makes you think I strive for it 🤔 I just don’t settle for, meh it’s good enough. Which means something different for different people. To me, when I do that, it means I don’t care. So I won’t stop there because I do care. I typically try to do my best. Even if that means my cake looks like *kitten*, I tried lol.

    Maybe it was this...

    "That being said, I personally don’t like to stop at “good enough”. Some do, that’s fine. Fine is not remotely okay for me. I don’t expect others to approach their personal goals the way I do, but I will not settle for what I believe to be mediocre..."

    ... “ To me, when I do that, it means I don’t care. So I won’t stop there because I do care. I typically try to do my best. Even if that means my cake looks like *kitten*, I tried lol”

    And... “ I agree, we all need to decide what is best for us individually. Only we know what is too much, and what is not enough. It’s highly personal.”

    I just outlined what it means -to me-. I also agree with Speakeasy, because that’s what works for them. I am equally allowed to do and feel certain ways about myself as you do, right? And I don’t feel that others are wrong for their approach.

    I don't think you meant it to sound this way, but when you say it's fine for others to stop at good enough but "fine is not remotely okay for me," it sounds a bit patronizing.

    I think where we differ is in our personal description of perfectionism. To me, perfectionism is not the pursuit of actual perfection, despite the name. I think perfectionism is never being satisfied with someone (including one's self) or something, never being able to accept anything as "good enough." When I think this way, it's a relentless pursuit and a constant feeling of dissatisfaction and discontent--at least to me. I either become obsessed and hyper-focused on my goals, or don't try at all--since I'll never live up to my own expectations.

    As I said, I do set goals for myself and have general areas on which I'd like to improve. I have to really ask myself why I want to improve in certain areas, though. I used to have this idea that I wanted to better than most people (if not all), and still struggle with this. If I'm wanting to improve upon something or have specific goals I want to achieve--what is the purpose of those goals? Is it to improve my overall quality of life in some way, or is to please others or feel like I'm "the best" at something?

    You’re right I didn’t mean it that way, I could have worded it better/differently and probably should have.

    I’ve always been very ambitious, my sister has always been lackadaisical, we learn something from each other all the time. She’s my best friend and probably my favorite person, and we couldn’t be more opposite. She would wear slippers and pajama pants in a grocery store. I’d be walking next to her in Bottega Veneta, and neither one of us could be bothered with what other people think of us. We do what we do because it makes us happy. There’s no right way to be, just the way that brings you satisfaction and peace.

    I’m sorry you struggle with being hypercritical of yourself. It doesn’t help that the media is making it even more difficult to love ourselves the way we are. I read here from someone a few times and really liked it, Comparison is the thief of joy. It’s so true.