Do young adults in the UK not want to work?

CollieFit

Well this falls at the feet of good old Tone and his ridiculous notion that 50% of school leavers should go on to university. Queue pointless degrees and the problem of more graduates than graduate places. He also forgot the little issue of funding; whilst only 10% of school leavers went to university the education could remain free...knock it up to 40-50% and free university education becomes unfundable by central government. So now we have kids with worthless degrees AND 40k of debt.

Where is the good vocational education? Totally missing at school level. Where are proper apprenticeships? Gone, because successive governments have looked at them simply as a way to keep the unemployment figures of youngsters low rather than actually give them a grounding.

>>snip<<

I absolutely agree with you on that.

Until a couple of years ago I have lectured postgraduates in both Psychology and Social Work (both were MA courses) at a reputable University (not ex-Poly) and even there I have noticed the year-on-year decline in the overall quality of graduates.

Higher education has been so watered down that a basic degree has effectively replaced the level of education that we used to expect at A-level. More and more are going to University who simply are not cut out for academia, but the staff are put under enormous pressure not to fail anyone in order to meet targets and not make the University look bad. You now spend the whole of the first year bringing them up to speed with what you would have expected for them to have covered at A-level.

One of my best friends is a Doctor in Health Psychology and as part of her work supervises PhD students. Technically these are students who should have a good first degree (1st or 2:1) and from whom you should be able to have a certain level of expectation. A Phd involves a considerable amount of independent study. At that level you shouldn't have to run to your supervisor for every little tiddly thing, but she has them knocking her door over lack of understanding of very basic research methods, can't design a basic questionnaire, no grounding in basic statistics etc. Yet she is forced by the University to mollycoddle and spoonfeed these students to somehow drag them through their PhD.

I don't know what Blair was thinking of when he encouraged 50% of young people to have a degree. What the devil for? There aren't that many genuine graduate positions.

Yet we still don't have decent apprenticeships, so you get this bottleneck in young plumbers, electricians etc coming through. In the meantime the current plumbers, electricians etc have us by the short 'n curlies and can charge an absolute fortune because there is hardly any competition. These days many "trades" earn you far more money than the so called graduate careers, but sadly most vocational qualifications are not terribly well managed and "NVQs" still have the reputation as being an acronym for "not very qualified".

I know we keep slating Europe, but some of our European partners have certain issues a little more sussed and it wouldn't hurt to learn from them. Germany for example has a cracking apprenticeship system. Young people leaving general education at age 16 and going into a "Lehre" (apprenticeship) go to a formal "Berufs Schule" (business school) on 2 days a week which complements what you learn on the job on the other 3 days a week. The completed apprenticeship has the same social standing (if not higher) as A-levels and is very popular with employers. Nobody looks down your nose because you didn't go to University because there is an appreciation for skilled labour.

What we don't need in this country is any more "media studies" graduates who think they're the bees knees and think they can cruise straight into a senior position on the back of a a huge sense of entitlement and a mediocre degree.

bantamspaul

Size10Againx

I agree with everything you say. Far too many graduates around chasing far too-few graduate jobs. We need a balance of those going to University and those upskilling in other ways.

jonsey_s

Can't be bothered to read this but I'll give you my take. I'm 41 and lost my last job because of someone else's action's. I am an engineer.

I can't find work.
I can't live on benefits.
I am homeless.

Most people are "better off" on benefits as most jobs today are part time.

The uk system is a trap, try it.

Delicate

Do you know how depressing it is while you are job seeking?

I did it for a while before i got my current job, which is above min wage.

The constant applying for jobs, not getting anything back (yes you are apparently not worth the time of a phone call or a letter returned saying 'thanks but sorry' to be rejected. And thats even before the interviews. Out of more than 200 jobs I applied for, i got 3 responses all saying 'sorry' (one came a year after I applied!)

People with qualifications do not generally apply for lower jobs, its not because (a majority) think its too low for them, its because they know they will get over looked for being 'overqualified' and might not stay with the company longer than they have to. Which to be honest, is a risk no matter who you take on.

It's soul destroying, I cried because a woman at the job centre shouted at me for apparently not trying hard enough, I couldnt help it that I was applying for all jobs that I could and started shouting at me about it. Unprofessional on her part when she was meant to be helping me, she got sacked. This was after 6 months of being unemployed, can you imagine how low people who have been unemployed longer feel?

Its the same when a job calls for 'seeking person with experience', how can you get experience if they wont give it to you.

You complaining about younger people not doing the job, why are you not aiming it for older people too, retired people who may want to top up their pension?

I could go around saying pensioners are rude and self entitled, after I opened a door for one, and she proceeded to push into me, and knock scalding hot chocolate down me, without so much as an apology, or pushing infront of me with a full trolley in a shop while i have 1-2 items, running over feet with their shopping bag trolleys. But its not good to generalise from personal experience, is it?

bantamspaul

To be fair to the OP she was asking a question and providing a recent example of her experience in trying to recruit rather than stating that all young people were workshy, lazy layabouts. I think the responses she has had prove that you cannot judge a whole sector of society the same from a limited experience. I know lazy folk of all ages, rude folk of all ages, benefit scroungers of all ages, hard workers of all ages etc, etc - it is too much of a generalisation to tar an age group with the same brush.

Good luck and best wishes to all on here who are looking for work.

LilithElina

a few people turned up wearing jeans....

Why is that a problem? What kind of job were you offering?
I've always worn my best jeans to interviews and no one ever complained. I mean, as long as there are no holes in them... They are standard clothes!

HeidiMightyRawr

IMO benefits should be there to help you get by until you find a job, not to sit around and live your life how you want, waiting for the "perfect job" I do think the availability of state help, as well as how much some people get, contributes to some young people not wanting to work. Why work, when you can get the same amount or more doing nothing? Of course there's pride, but not everyone has that.

So back to the original question, beyond vague generalities about the purpose of benefits, which I think few would disagree with. The benefit system contains a number of perverse incentives, the clearest being a threshold at which it's just not cost effective to go into employment, but a wide range of others.

How would you structure it in such a way that it provides a safety net, rather than a choice that one might make?

Well it would be good I think to assess each case individually. I don't really think that's possible right now, given how many people are out of work but I'm sure a start could be made to that. For example, not every person and family is the same. To some, benefits are hardly anything to survive, which is why it's not necessarily good to just go slashing the amount you give. However, for some, people are living a life that I think is more than a person should be getting when they haven't got a job.

Secondly, if someone who is say long term unemployed, can only get minimum wage jobs, and they cannot afford to live on that. I would not be opposed to them taking such jobs and receiving the rest in benefits if that is what it takes. Surely it's better for the person to be out working, and receiving benefits to help them get by, than it is to not be working and claiming full benefits. Then if while they were in that job, sufficient help was provided to help them get training for something they actually enjoy, one day they will have a chance to do that and to support themselves fully.

Sure, some people will never want to work, but by making them take a job and providing the rest in benefits, they will never have the financial issue, and since they're working anyway, you may as well work towards something you enjoy right?

iceqieen

And apparently that would lead to economic meltdown. Glad nobody told the Chinese....

Yea, because it did so well for the Chinese - it's the capitalist economy that's driving their growth, I would suggest

Not to mention they are communist, not socialist.. but hey.. I'm just a silly socialist scandinavian :laugh:

Lemongrab1

Why is this still going on?
Will whining about couch tater Brits make my butt firmer, boobs bigger or waist miniature?
UNACCEPTABLE!!!

elsdonward

Terribly sad - please keep trying and perhaps a real person will turn up. They must be out there somewhere

twinketta

Oooh Good news (well for me anyway lol)

One of my customers just phoned to ask if his son can meet for for an interview tomorrow. He is 17yo, I have met him a couple of times before and he always seems like a pleasant and helpful lad...so fingers crossed

Just thought I would update anyone that has been following the thread.

This morning the son of one of my customers came for an interview, dressed smartly btw . He arrived on time yay! He came over as very intelligent and interested in the company and its future. He has a few qualifications from school but is really keen to learn a trade.

So the long and short of it, is, that he is going to start with us next Tuesday. :bigsmile:

So, my advice to any one looking to recruit, it may be better to ask around customers, suppliers, friends etc rather than rely on advertising in the first instance.

elsdonward

Yes right on - a resource based economy - across the world would be the next step. If you worked - you would work where you wanted to because it would be what you are good at. No wages to draw - but no need for them - if you nhjeed something just go and get it from the pool.

Why not - no crime, no war, no need, no hunger because all of those things are based upon money

twinketta

I would like to wish all those who have posted that are looking for work, soon find the job of their dreams...or at least a job..keep at it, somewhere there is a job with your name on it x

Amanojaku

:huh:

If we're reintroducing the barter system. I would like to offer to swap a chicken for a Bugatti Veyron please. Any takers....

Actually in a Resource Based Economy (RBE) You would be able to make that trade. Just not exact in how you view the value between the two. All people of the earth would have to come to an conclusion that all resources belong to everyone and no one owns something not needed. IF you need a vehicle to travel some place you would simply put in a request order and reserve the time you need the vehicle. When you are done using it you return it. If you need a chicken to eat, you receive a chicken to eat.

Almost all boring jobs, and tasks can be replaced by mechinization with current day technology and can only become more advanced if we concentrate efforts into these automation technologies. You can see this has happened in factories that use robots to replace workers. They are cheaper than humans, produce more work than humans, and take jobs from humans. It can be used for the betterment of everyone instead of seen as a negative. We as humans utilize tools and improved upon tools for generations. Why? Is it not to liberate us from the repetitive and hard tasks of labor? robots, mechinization is all tools we have and can create but lack direction towards its use for humanity. In current structure it is all focused towards profit.

A thought suppose I'm a robotics engineer with 8-10 years of education and 10 years experience what incentives would you give me to continue designing and producing these beneficial technologies? I kind of enjoy my 6 figure income right now, trips to Europe, and sending my children to a private school.

Your question I think is based on your current understanding of how the world society works today. It is hard to imagine a time without money used to give incentive to work I understand. This asumes there is no desire beyond human basic needs, if that were true there would be no inventors, artists, writers, or teachers. People work with passion on things that interest them and challenge them. For example since this is MFP health and fitness become a lifestyle because they are passionate about it. An engineer becomes an engineer because he is passionate and interested in building various devices buildings, robotics, airplanes etc.. There is a whole community that contributes there efforts towards computer software linux, they are not paid for this.
The Venus project is about providing opportunity, and emphasizing individuality, creativity,innovativness, there is no uniformality. Opening opportunity for everyone to partake in the greatest challenge we could have. Improving the life and world for everyone. It is not communism socialism facisim capitalism it is a completely new way of social structure using science that has never been applied.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag
There also many other videos of Jacque Fresco and the venus project you can watch that will hopefully help understand what it is all about. As well as there website.

hookilau

Here in NY, it's very much the same. It's very hard to find good help these days :blushing:

Both my kids are gainfully employed, ages 17 and 24. The 24 yr old has been employed since she was 15 and the 17 year old has been working since 16.

I think the difference is that they both work for different Animal Hospitals & handling animals requires some skill. They both grew up with me working in an AH, so they are familiar with all the requirements & have lots of experience with fostering & nursing. Both went out on their own and secured jobs on their own steam. :blushing: I'm pretty proud of them both.

We do not pay for their data plans for their cells, and we will pay for all that they need, but if they want things, they must work. Before they were employed outside of the house, we paid them to work around the house, generally caring for our animals.

We did not pay them to do the laundry or do dishes or anything we do to take care of each other as a family. I'm just glad they didn't settle for a piddly 30$ a week vs getting P/T work after school. The amount we paid them paled in comparison to minimum wage & they were BOTH very happy to start there.

You must know your target audience. OP, you don't say what the job is & I think this is important. My kids are both on a career path that requires some commitment & learned skill at the beginning, so they are less apt to lose interest as working with animals requires a passion for it, cause it's not always fun, pretty, or easy in the least.

As a young 21 year old with a child, I was looking for a career, any place that would train me as I lacked formal education beyond H.S. at the time (late 80's, early 90's).

I was motivated by the potential to support myself & learn a skill, but that's not to say that I didn't lose a whole bunch of Veterinary jobs before I found one that offered me hope for my future.

My advice to you is to shop for help where ever people are found along the career path that pertains to your profession. At the Animal Hospital, the best employees had something to gain by working with us. Either because they had a family to support, or they were learning & working their way towards their targeted profession, like my kids.

Both are planning to be Veterinarians and again, at the AH, there were many stories of people starting as kennel kids and eventually becoming doctors & associates at the very same place they started at the age of 16, often, their first jobs.
We've even had people eventually become partners in practices

gym_king_carlie

The sad thing is, there is a few young people who do genuinely want jobs and the Job Centre will overlook them and send the lazy difficult people (the Jeremy Kyle generation) to interviews in hope they don't have to deal with them anymore and give them the opportunities by sending them for courses, new bikes, new clothes, the system is wrong.

I am glad you found a suitable person to employ, there is some hardworking people out there who would grab the opportunity with both hands. good luck to them.

hookilau

Oooh Good news (well for me anyway lol)

One of my customers just phoned to ask if his son can meet for for an interview tomorrow. He is 17yo, I have met him a couple of times before and he always seems like a pleasant and helpful lad...so fingers crossed

Just thought I would update anyone that has been following the thread.

This morning the son of one of my customers came for an interview, dressed smartly btw . He arrived on time yay! He came over as very intelligent and interested in the company and its future. He has a few qualifications from school but is really keen to learn a trade.

So the long and short of it, is, that he is going to start with us next Tuesday. :bigsmile:

So, my advice to any one looking to recruit, it may be better to ask around customers, suppliers, friends etc rather than rely on advertising in the first instance.

That's great news!!! I agree that casting a wide net brings in ALL sorts of fish, however, a more targeted approach will definitely yield an individual that is willing to put their time in & grow with your company. The worst applicants we got were dabblers, people who thought it was 'cool' to work with animals & thought you get to play with puppies and kittens all day. You should've seen them balk at what the job really required. :drinker:

moore7600

A number of todays gen x's use the television and pop culture as icons so aspire to rise quickly as in the apprentice and x factor. Hard work reaps the greatest rewards but unfortunately on some of society that falls on deaf ears. There has been a rise in the entitlement culture and the statement by the young lady earlier regarding "doing something they dislike till they find something they do" is entirely what is wrong with society. Albert Einstein worked as a patent clerk before he became who he was..you look throughout history and many of the true innovators started at the bottom..including Lord Sugar.

I still believe in hard work and discipline and that no matter what you do you should always aspire to bring 110% but then i try to lead by example in life :-)

2b_perfect00

I don't get it, I was so excited to get my first job. Yeah It didn't pay great but I had my own money and I could buy things. I loved the responsibility.

hookilau

A number of todays gen x's use the television and pop culture as icons so aspire to rise quickly as in the apprentice and x factor. Hard work reaps the greatest rewards but unfortunately on some of society that falls on deaf ears. There has been a rise in the entitlement culture and the statement by the young lady earlier regarding "doing something they dislike till they find something they do" is entirely what is wrong with society. Albert Einstein worked as a patent clerk before he became who he was..you look throughout history and many of the true innovators started at the bottom..including Lord Sugar.

I still believe in hard work and discipline and that no matter what you do you should always aspire to bring 110% but then i try to lead by example in life :-)

I agree but I've taught both of my kids that we do things we don't want to do, in order to do the things we DO want to do.
This helps to keep them to stay the course when they lose faith or have bad days, as is given to happen in anyone's life. It's not always fun & games and I think that may be the thing that's 'off'.

My kid brother is an underachiever because even at 34, my parents pay for everything he WANTS vs the things he needs. Yes, he lives in their basement. He does not want to work at a job that he doesn't LOVE and is under the mistaken belief that if he can't get a job in the field he wants to work in (regardless of what it pays) then he'd rather play video games & wait till one comes along.

He's been doing that since the mid 90's or so :huh: