My Pointless Soapbox

jofjltncb6

The thing that bothers me when I see fat-bashing is that people wouldn't DARE say it to somebody in person... they hide behind the veil of internet-anonymity and say whatever they want. There is no disputing that being severely overweight, or even mildly overweight comes with health concerns, but there is a right and wrong way to approach somebody you care about and talk to them about their weight. I don't think any stranger has any right to bash somebody they don't know because of their weight. It's none of their business.

How do you know what people would or would not DARE to do in person? Are there things you do online that you wouldn't DARE do in person? That says more about you than anyone else. I act and speak the same, no matter what communication medium I'm using.

^this...

...and variations of it that have been posted before.

It took me a while to realize that this concept of only saying things online that you wouldn't say in person is probably true...but only for the people who assume others are like that because that's how they are.

I'm actually slightly less sarcastic/blunt online because I don't have the benefit of reading the reaction of my audience real time in order to make adjustments on the fly. Online, I have to at least consider that they may go down the wrong path initially and I won't know to bring them back where I want them.

thickerella

OP, totally off the subject (because I really don't care), but every time I see your profile pic it makes me think of an actress from one of those old TV shows..... who do you look like dammit! It's driving me crazy!

She's that girl from "Facts of Life?" Blair?

Or Topanga from "Boy Meets World"?

Google supplied me with some serious flashbacks!

I miss old sitcoms!

salladeve

OP, totally off the subject (because I really don't care), but every time I see your profile pic it makes me think of an actress from one of those old TV shows..... who do you look like dammit! It's driving me crazy!

She's that girl from "Facts of Life?" Blair?

Or Topanga from "Boy Meets World"?

Thank you so much (both of you), because I can see the resemblance to both! I actually think it was Topanga that I was thinking of, but I do see a resemblance to Blair also. Ahhhh I feel so much better now :flowerforyou:

LoraF83

cliff notes:

stop fat bashing..

the internet is mean ..

and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...

and in...for the meanies..

Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.

But what you interpret as guidance, someone else might see as bashing/overstepping bounds.

For example:

At my heaviest, I was 230lbs. My slimmer sister and step-mom used to suggest all the time that I try to be more active and get moving. In retrospect, I can see that they did so in a kind way because they cared about me. At the time though, I was overly sensitive to the topic because I was fat and deep down I knew I needed to change. Whenever they suggested a walk or family game of volleyball, I would come home crying because of how mean they are. My husband had to console me many, many times. He tried to make me see that they weren't being mean. But I wouldn't hear it.

When people are in the midst of something, they often perceive any commentary about the issue as bashing or attacking. OP is it possible that you are just especially sensitive to this issue because of your own struggles with weight?

chatogal

Honestly, I have tried to refute your argument a few times now but keep stumbling. I think that you are, for the most part, correct. I have even tried to "soften my tone" when offering people advice on the forums and avoiding being overly critical. Except in the cases of someone who is promoting an unsafe method to another or telling another that X is the only way to do Y.


However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.

It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.

but nobody is asking you to repeat yourselves over and over again, I presume you reply to topics out of CHOICE. If you find it frustrating, why bother?

Because -I- actually care about people and want to see them achieve their weight management and fitness goals. That is why -I- spend several hours per day answering questions, reading research to advance my knowledge, and reaching out to people privately to steer them in a healthy direction.

Because without people like me, this entire website would be devoted to the evils of sugar, carbs, fats and how all women should do ultra high rep weight lifting or pilates to lengthen and tone their muscles. People with EDs would run rampant, and MFP would essentially turn into the opium den of nutrition sites.

That is why I try to get past my frustration.

What have you done to help someone today?

well actually, I raked my elderly neighbour's lawn, gathered the leaves up and took to the dump. Then I walked my disabled daughter's dog (along with my own so it is no hardship), did her shopping for her. Tonight I am "on call" (on my day off) for my local maternity department where I work as a midwife as they are short staffed - and babies will keep coming you know. So yes, I certainly feel I fulfill my role as a "caring" person. You seem to think I was critising you for giving advice. Certainly not...what I dont understand is why you would feel "frustrated" when giving the advice...no matter how often you find yourself repeating the same advice. My point being that you have a choice. Advice should be offered joyfully..not in frustration!

WhiteRabbit1313

[/quote]


"Thank you so much (both of you), because I can see the resemblance to both! I actually think it was Topanga that I was thinking of, but I do see a resemblance to Blair also. Ahhhh I feel so much better now :flowerforyou: "
[/quote]

Haha! Anytime.

ryry_

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/ryry62685/view/les-mfperables-594438

It wasn't always this way


There was a time when posters were kind
When their tone was soft
And their words encouraging
There was a time when carbs were fine
And MFP was a song
And MFP friends were inviting
Then it all…went…wrong

I dreamed a dream in bandwidth gone by
When motivation was high
And logging on worth doing
I dreamed the MFP site would never die
I dreamed the Mods would be forgiving
Then I was a noob and unafraid
And strikes were made and used and wasted
There was no reason to be made

No post untrolled
No joke unwasted
But the bullies come at night
With their mean words soft as thunder
As they tear your hope apart
And turn your gurney to shame

I created my account on New Years night
MFP filled my days with endless distraction
It took my productivity in real life
But it was gone when I deactivate
And still I dream I’ll recreate
That we’ll live our days online
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are threads we cannot weather
I had a dream my MFP experience would be
So different from this hell I’m reading
So different now from what it seemed
Now your thread has killed
The dream I dreamed

Keep_The_Laughter

The one thing I always see in threads like this that makes me laugh the most is the assertion that "mean people" are just mean because "it's the internet and they are saying things they wouldn't say in real life."

In my life experience, I have met very few people in life who act differently in real life than they do on the internet. If you think people are acting way differently online than they would in person, that kind of says a lot more about how you act online, not everyone else.

I don't act or speak any differently if I'm talking to someone online, through a text message, or face to face. I assume, based on my actions and the people around me, that most everyone else acts the same. If you think differently, I would probably guess you act differently online than in real life, and what does that say about you?

The perception of consequences does impact the way people behave online. Any number of stories about people going online making death threats, threatening of any number of types of violence, throwing around racial/ethnic slurs and then getting butthurt when there are actual real life consequences to their actions suggests that OP is onto something.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Charlotte-Dawson-confronts-cyber-bullies/tabid/418/articleID/273958/Default.aspx#.Uo4xbWSxNaE

This type of behavior has been going on far longer than the internet was a thing. Pretty sure organizations like the KKK haven't needed the internet to throw around racial slurs, make death threats, threats of violence, actual violent acts, etc. To say this kind of behavior is around and prevalent only on the internet, or just because people are on the internet now is pure ignorance of reality, and basically looking to use the internet as the newest scapegoat.

Tiger as far as I can see, no one said that people were not capable of hatred and stupidity prior to the internet. You inferred that notion and then went on to then make statements based on your inferrence. So that is your deal, and yours alone.

The argument the OP made is that there are people who go out of their way to say insulting a degrading things to others online that they would not say in a face-to-face meeting with the same person. I just put out a link demostrating that very behavior in real life. It's at best disingenous to imply that I blamed the internet for all hateful speech. It is selfserving in an extremely dishonest way to try to construct a new context for a conversation and then insert someone else's statement into what is a entirely different conversation.

bethannien

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/ryry62685/view/les-mfperables-594438

It wasn't always this way


There was a time when posters were kind
When their tone was soft
And their words encouraging
There was a time when carbs were fine
And MFP was a song
And MFP friends were inviting
Then it all…went…wrong

I dreamed a dream in bandwidth gone by
When motivation was high
And logging on worth doing
I dreamed the MFP site would never die
I dreamed the Mods would be forgiving
Then I was a noob and unafraid
And strikes were made and used and wasted
There was no reason to be made

No post untrolled
No joke unwasted
But the bullies come at night
With their mean words soft as thunder
As they tear your hope apart
And turn your gurney to shame

I created my account on New Years night
MFP filled my days with endless distraction
It took my productivity in real life
But it was gone when I deactivate
And still I dream I’ll recreate
That we’ll live our days online
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are threads we cannot weather
I had a dream my MFP experience would be
So different from this hell I’m reading
So different now from what it seemed
Now your thread has killed
The dream I dreamed

:laugh: seriously the funniest thing ever

mmipanda

The one thing I always see in threads like this that makes me laugh the most is the assertion that "mean people" are just mean because "it's the internet and they are saying things they wouldn't say in real life."

In my life experience, I have met very few people in life who act differently in real life than they do on the internet. If you think people are acting way differently online than they would in person, that kind of says a lot more about how you act online, not everyone else.

I don't act or speak any differently if I'm talking to someone online, through a text message, or face to face. I assume, based on my actions and the people around me, that most everyone else acts the same. If you think differently, I would probably guess you act differently online than in real life, and what does that say about you?

The perception of consequences does impact the way people behave online. Any number of stories about people going online making death threats, threatening of any number of types of violence, throwing around racial/ethnic slurs and then getting butthurt when there are actual real life consequences to their actions suggests that OP is onto something.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Charlotte-Dawson-confronts-cyber-bullies/tabid/418/articleID/273958/Default.aspx#.Uo4xbWSxNaE

This type of behavior has been going on far longer than the internet was a thing. Pretty sure organizations like the KKK haven't needed the internet to throw around racial slurs, make death threats, threats of violence, actual violent acts, etc. To say this kind of behavior is around and prevalent only on the internet, or just because people are on the internet now is pure ignorance of reality, and basically looking to use the internet as the newest scapegoat.

I think (well, I thought) we all know that the reason people are ****s on the internet is because of the anonymity. You can't be held accountable if nobody knows who you are.

Sounds kind of ... similar, hey?

Keep_The_Laughter

The one thing I always see in threads like this that makes me laugh the most is the assertion that "mean people" are just mean because "it's the internet and they are saying things they wouldn't say in real life."

In my life experience, I have met very few people in life who act differently in real life than they do on the internet. If you think people are acting way differently online than they would in person, that kind of says a lot more about how you act online, not everyone else.

I don't act or speak any differently if I'm talking to someone online, through a text message, or face to face. I assume, based on my actions and the people around me, that most everyone else acts the same. If you think differently, I would probably guess you act differently online than in real life, and what does that say about you?

The perception of consequences does impact the way people behave online. Any number of stories about people going online making death threats, threatening of any number of types of violence, throwing around racial/ethnic slurs and then getting butthurt when there are actual real life consequences to their actions suggests that OP is onto something.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Charlotte-Dawson-confronts-cyber-bullies/tabid/418/articleID/273958/Default.aspx#.Uo4xbWSxNaE

This type of behavior has been going on far longer than the internet was a thing. Pretty sure organizations like the KKK haven't needed the internet to throw around racial slurs, make death threats, threats of violence, actual violent acts, etc. To say this kind of behavior is around and prevalent only on the internet, or just because people are on the internet now is pure ignorance of reality, and basically looking to use the internet as the newest scapegoat.

I think (well, I thought) we all know that the reason people are ****s on the internet is because of the anonymity. You can't be held accountable if nobody knows who you are.

Sounds kind of ... similar, hey?

^^^Pretty much what you just said^^^...There are behavioral scientists in multiple fields trying to counter toxic behavior in online communities. Businesses from gaming to mainstream news outlets are trying to reconcile how to stop the trolling, threats, insults and otherwise degrading/rude commentary in their online communities without forcing people to reveal identifiable information. Riot Games and the Huffington Post are two good examples. As it relates to this thread...the OP was making sense.

tlab827

... Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day....

^^^ This alone is enough to be kind and helpful instead of blunt and hurtful. Thank you for posting.

^^ I couldn't agree with you both more. Bite your tongue (or fingers) and make a conscious effort to be kind and compassionate.

QuietBloom

Honestly, I have tried to refute your argument a few times now but keep stumbling. I think that you are, for the most part, correct. I have even tried to "soften my tone" when offering people advice on the forums and avoiding being overly critical. Except in the cases of someone who is promoting an unsafe method to another or telling another that X is the only way to do Y.


However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.

It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.

What he said.

QuietBloom

Some on MFP say we're all here for the same reason. I just don't buy that in total. Most are here to get healthy. But how we get there is a very individual experience. We all have to eat at a calorie deficit and exercise - but our reasons for being overweight are individual. You never know when what you say may ignite the spark in someone reading your comments. So, having ALL people comment on posts is helpful. Read what works or speaks to you. Disregard the rest. We're adults here.

Crux. I have seen endless threads where the OP feels to need to argue each and every opinion they don't agree with or didn't feel that they had asked for. CLUE: You are posting on a public forum. Expect to hear from EVERYONE.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

I think if you're going to compare MFP users to the KKK you'd better have some examples of truly deplorable behavior that support your comparison. Otherwise it's a pretty inflammatory thing to say.

Much more insulting than any of the comments I see being called rude on a daily basis.

1LoveChips

I still don't know where this is going; MFP staff must be at their wits end too, advertising for moderators on Facebook

ekz13

I think if you're going to compare MFP users to the KKK you'd better have some examples of truly deplorable behavior that support your comparison. Otherwise it's a pretty inflammatory thing to say.

Much more insulting than any of the comments I see being called rude on a daily basis.

I agree, that's quite the stretch, and frankly, I think that's pretty damn childish comparing someone with an opinion different from yours to being a racist hate mongering bigot. Not even close.

tigersword

I think if you're going to compare MFP users to the KKK you'd better have some examples of truly deplorable behavior that support your comparison. Otherwise it's a pretty inflammatory thing to say.

Much more insulting than any of the comments I see being called rude on a daily basis.

Who's comparing MFP users to the KKK? People are making posts that internet users throw around racial slurs and threats of violence purely due to anonymity. I used the KKK to refute that argument. People have been making death threats and throwing around racial slurs probably a couple thousand years before the internet existed. The KKK was just one organized group.

Oh, and to respond to the person posting the KKK in uniform, the white hoods were for intimidation and to hide their faces while committing criminal acts, not to hide their membership. KKK membership was public, they didn't hide the fact that they were members, and they didn't need to wear the hoods to spread their violence and hate.

MFP is tame compared to most internet sites, and it's REALLY tame compared to the real world.

sassyjae21

Hey!!!! Where did the white hooders come from??! *hiss*

lol

debrag12

I just left a thread on a popular social networking site where an opinion was expressed about how fat people should be forced to pay extra any time they use any sort of transportation other than their own cars. There was a lot of supporters, many who expressed their thought that obese people are disgusting, ugly, smelly, and essentially wastes of flesh.

As a business I totally agree with that. Say on a plane, if it's not a full flight and they don't need the seat then they should get a refund for the extra, though that would be hell to put in practice. People pay for 1 seat but expect to get 2?