Is chivalry really dead? :(

leftyjace

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.

delicious_cocktail

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.

"The system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow"

So sayeth Webster's.

Also go look up ironic while you're in there.

BeachIron

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.

Here let me communicate in a way you may understand, lol wut?

DanIsACyclingFool

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

I am courteous to equals, superiors, and subordinates. If the cat would do me the respect of going through the door he wanted open even once, I'd be courteous to him as well. He also bites me when I pet him, so what does that tell you?

leftyjace

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.

Here let me communicate in a way you may understand, lol wut?

Dude... your 'roid rage is showing.

BeachIron

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.

Here let me communicate in a way you may understand, lol wut?

Dude... your 'roid rage is showing.

Impressive . . .

BeachIron

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.

"The system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow"

So sayeth Webster's.

Also go look up ironic while you're in there.

Bingo

Mother_Superior

Verily brave Sancho, I fear this common courtesy extended to all equally! Oh how it wounds my sense of self worth!

Amadbro

Absolutely. Chivalry is dead because alot of females have become "I can do it myself". Everything from opening doors for a woman, to footing the bill. Women have become more independent over the years and to an extent arrogant, conceited and just as egotistical as most men. Don't blame the guys, blame the other women out there who have confused them into thinking "chivalry" is wrong.

Wow. So are you saying you get some serious resistance when you insist on being chivalrous?

No I'm speaking from the experiences I've had talking to several women who were just friends on this topic

summertime_girl

I think it's nice when guys offer to hold the door, pull out a chair, etc. It's nice, respectful, and appreciated, though not demanded. However, not a fan of guys thinking I need to be taken care of.

Sovictorrious

The more sandwiches and sweaters she makes, the more chivalrous I am.

He got me a wash cloth after then called me a cab. But I paid the fare.

leftyjace

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.

"The system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow"

So sayeth Webster's.

Also go look up ironic while you're in there.

Bingo

Both of you "gentlemen" need to look earlier in the topic where the M-W definition was already quoted... and included the 2nd possible definition, which you conveniently left out.

And ironic is exactly what I meant, seeing as how you both strive to give off an image of intelligence, yet will conveniently ignore a very valid definition of the word... which is decidedly less than honorable (maybe even chivalrous?) behavior.

spider_mark51959

I will continue to practice it. If it is appreciated fine, if not fine. It's their problem and not mine.

Ely82010

It's not, however, the appreciation of chivalry is dying a horrible death.

So much this

Interesting. Are you saying that females don't recognize and appreciate chivalry as often as they should?

Absolutely. Chivalry is dead because alot of females have become "I can do it myself". Everything from opening doors for a woman, to footing the bill. Women have become more independent over the years and to an extent arrogant, conceited and just as egotistical as most men. Don't blame the guys, blame the other women out there who have confused them into thinking "chivalry" is wrong.
[/quote


I am a female and I approve this message!

CrazyAnimalLady

I guess I fail to see the conflict between chivalry and equality.

Chivalry is a way of treating people...

Equality is allowing people an equal opportunity for achievement.

Men who hold back chivalry in the name of equality do so out of holding a grudge, or because they don't like showing respect to women in the first place.

But that's just my opinion.

Nicely said!

BePawsitive

I truly hope not... This is what separates the boys from the men.

Slacker16

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

They are distinct, but they sometimes come in conflict. Opening doors, for instance, is a nice gesture. It doesn't presuppose any inequality.

Picking up the tab does. If my date and I are both professionals with equal opportunities for earning, it makes no sense for us not to go dutch unless you suppose some inequality between us.

To answer this thread, chivalry isn't dead but it has had to evolve to coexist with gender equality and will continue to do so. End of story.

P.S.
The "Knight's Code" people are referring to is the product of the "Peace and Truce of God" movement in Medieval Catholic thought and was a direct result of severe inequality. Modern notions of chivalry are an offshoot of it, although there are many others.

susieoj

I guess I fail to see the conflict between chivalry and equality.

Chivalry is a way of treating people...

Equality is allowing people an equal opportunity for achievement.

Men who hold back chivalry in the name of equality do so out of holding a grudge, or because they don't like showing respect to women in the first place.

But that's just my opinion.

I like you.

I like you too.

leftyjace

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

They are distinct, but they sometimes come in conflict. Opening doors, for instance, is a nice gesture. It doesn't presuppose any inequality.

Picking up the tab does. If my date and I are both professionals with equal opportunities for earning, it makes no sense for us not to go dutch unless you suppose some inequality between us.

And what about doing something nice for a woman you're courting?

I don't agree with you here.

Maybe I was raised "wrong", but it makes me ridiculously uncomfortable for a woman to pay for anything in my presence. (Within reason, mind.)

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

They are distinct, but they sometimes come in conflict. Opening doors, for instance, is a nice gesture. It doesn't presuppose any inequality.

Picking up the tab does. If my date and I are both professionals with equal opportunities for earning, it makes no sense for us not to go dutch unless you suppose some inequality between us.

And what about doing something nice for a woman you're courting?

I don't agree with you here.

Maybe I was raised "wrong", but it makes me ridiculously uncomfortable for a woman to pay for anything in my presence. (Within reason, mind.)

Why? Would you owe her some bow chica wow wow later?

SailorKnightWing

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

They are distinct, but they sometimes come in conflict. Opening doors, for instance, is a nice gesture. It doesn't presuppose any inequality.

Picking up the tab does. If my date and I are both professionals with equal opportunities for earning, it makes no sense for us not to go dutch unless you suppose some inequality between us.

And what about doing something nice for a woman you're courting?

I don't agree with you here.

Maybe I was raised "wrong", but it makes me ridiculously uncomfortable for a woman to pay for anything in my presence. (Within reason, mind.)

Yeah, I would say that's a problem. Can't she do something nice for you? Why does it make you feel so uncomfortable? Do you feel emasculated? Do you assume you're more successful than her? I buy stuff for my boyfriends all the time. It's a nice gesture as long as you don't require it.

leftyjace

Why? Would you owe her some bow chica wow wow later?

Oh heavens no.
I just deem it to be kind and respectful behavior to show a woman I'm trying to court.

leftyjace

Yeah, I would say that's a problem. Can't she do something nice for you? Why does it make you feel so uncomfortable? Do you feel emasculated? Do you assume you're more successful than her? I buy stuff for my boyfriends all the time. It's a nice gesture as long as you don't require it.

Of course she can do something nice for me. I don't feel emasculated, I just feel that if I ask her out, I should pay.
I don't assume I'm more successful...
I've been known to let a woman pay if she asked me out and insisted on paying.
It was hard, but I did it.

Ninguneado77

To answer this thread, chivalry isn't dead but it has had to evolve to coexist with gender equality and will continue to do so. End of story.

Well if it evolves it wouldn't be the same any longer wouldn't it?

leftyjace

Why? Would you owe her some bow chica wow wow later?

Oh heavens no.
I just deem it to be kind and respectful behavior to show a woman I'm trying to court.

I'm going to elaborate on this....

Just because I pay doesn't mean I have any expectations. And any guy that DOES have expectations if he pays is dangerous and not a man.

Mother_Superior

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

They are distinct, but they sometimes come in conflict. Opening doors, for instance, is a nice gesture. It doesn't presuppose any inequality.

Picking up the tab does. If my date and I are both professionals with equal opportunities for earning, it makes no sense for us not to go dutch unless you suppose some inequality between us.

And what about doing something nice for a woman you're courting?

I don't agree with you here.

Maybe I was raised "wrong", but it makes me ridiculously uncomfortable for a woman to pay for anything in my presence. (Within reason, mind.)

Sounds like you were raised to seek your own comfort above that of the woman you're with. That's chivalrous?

bellaamor30

I guess I fail to see the conflict between chivalry and equality.

Chivalry is a way of treating people...

Equality is allowing people an equal opportunity for achievement.

Men who hold back chivalry in the name of equality do so out of holding a grudge, or because they don't like showing respect to women in the first place.

But that's just my opinion.

I like you.

I like u 2!!

leftyjace

Sounds like you were raised to seek your own comfort above that of the woman you're with. That's chivalrous?

Perhaps. Hadn't thought about it that way.
I've had a woman say it made her uncomfortable in the past, and I've acquiesced.
But it didn't make me any less uncomfortable.

SailorKnightWing

Yeah, I would say that's a problem. Can't she do something nice for you? Why does it make you feel so uncomfortable? Do you feel emasculated? Do you assume you're more successful than her? I buy stuff for my boyfriends all the time. It's a nice gesture as long as you don't require it.

Of course she can do something nice for me. I don't feel emasculated, I just feel that if I ask her out, I should pay.
I don't assume I'm more successful...
I've been known to let a woman pay if she asked me out and insisted on paying.
It was hard, but I did it.

See, that's a good attitude to have. You should have said that in the first place. The person who does the asking out should be the one who pays.

Mother_Superior

Sounds like you were raised to seek your own comfort above that of the woman you're with. That's chivalrous?

Perhaps. Hadn't thought about it that way.
I've had a woman say it made her uncomfortable in the past, and I've acquiesced.
But it didn't make me any less uncomfortable.

Whether we agree or not, that's a solid, honest response. Good on ya.