Is chivalry really dead? :(

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  • ohellotheresa
    ohellotheresa Posts: 58
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    yeah thank you so much thanks thank you you chivalrous chivalrous bunch yeah thanks a whole lot LIKE THANK YOU SO SO SO SO MUCH oh my god thank you
  • leftyjace
    leftyjace Posts: 304 Member
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    Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.
    Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

    I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.

    Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.

    "The system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow"

    So sayeth Webster's.

    Also go look up ironic while you're in there.

    Bingo

    Both of you "gentlemen" need to look earlier in the topic where the M-W definition was already quoted... and included the 2nd possible definition, which you conveniently left out.

    And ironic is exactly what I meant, seeing as how you both strive to give off an image of intelligence, yet will conveniently ignore a very valid definition of the word... which is decidedly less than honorable (maybe even chivalrous?) behavior.

    [q]From m-w.com:

    QUOTE:
    chiv·al·ry noun \ˈshi-vəl-rē\
    : the system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow

    : an honorable and polite way of behaving especially toward women


    I think in the modern context, the second definition is more applicable.[/q]


    So you get to cherry pick your definitions but the other two "gentlemen" don't? :huh:



    I suggest you look up hypocrisy the next time you open a dictionary.

    At least I included the other definition in my cititation... which is more than I can say for them.
  • FatHuMan1
    FatHuMan1 Posts: 1,028 Member
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    lol i know it's the first definition, that's the point. the definition is that it's a medieval ideal for gender role behavior. It's not dead but it should be because it's based entirely on misogynist and sexist principles. WHICH I FIND PAINFULLY OBVIOUS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE FIRST DEFINITION. here's another look at the definition of chivalry lol k thanks http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/10/chivalry-degrades-women-promotes-sexism-in-society

    ^this
  • Ninguneado77
    Ninguneado77 Posts: 468
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    lol i know it's the first definition, that's the point. the definition is that it's a medieval ideal for gender role behavior. It's not dead but it should be because it's based entirely on misogynist and sexist principles. WHICH I FIND PAINFULLY OBVIOUS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE FIRST DEFINITION. here's another look at the definition of chivalry lol k thanks http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/10/chivalry-degrades-women-promotes-sexism-in-society

    sorry…Did you live in that time? you sound so sure...
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    yeah thank you so much thanks thank you you chivalrous chivalrous bunch yeah thanks a whole lot LIKE THANK YOU SO SO SO SO MUCH oh my god thank you

    ...wat?
  • dayone987
    dayone987 Posts: 645 Member
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    I think it goes back to following the example of my grandfather. He was a very well of man, a self-made successful gentleman. And he delighted in taking care of the bill. He was VERY much an old-school gentleman, and did this as part of his behavior.
    I have always tried to emulate this. I feel the practice brings a smile to a woman's face, which is never a bad thing - at least in my mind. It gives me joy.
    So is my behavior selfish in nature? Perhaps. It's possible I'm feeding my ego.
    But it's appreciated behavior. And I feel good that I'm in a financial position to not have to think twice about it. (And no, it's not Grandpa's money - it's mine. I went out and made my own. :smile: )

    Just curious; do you cover the bill for male friends as well? And if you do, does it make you feels as good as when you pay for a woman's meal?
    I do sometimes, yes.
    Honestly? No, it doesnt.
    But then again, I'm less worried about their comfort.
    And oftentimes, they get me back in the future.
    Well, sometimes they do.

    I get that it's nice to be able to treat people and I am both the giver and receiver among my friends. Likewise with holding doors, etc.
    I find it interesting that some men feel uncomfortable with women paying but not with men.
    To me, this seems sexist; maybe a subtle display of power.

    For me, I'd much rather have pay equity rather than free meals.
  • DamePiglet
    DamePiglet Posts: 3,730 Member
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    "Chivalrous" behavior is considered courteous behavior where I live.

    Simply put, if a man doesn't behave that way (here), it's a reflection of his upbringing. When he does, it shows that he wasn't "raised by wolves."

    It implies that his parents invested time in teaching him right from wrong and how to be considerate of another's feelings.

    Now, whether he REALLY IS a good guy or not would remain to be seen.

    I actually feel a great deal of sympathy for men who get their "hands slapped" for opening a car door or picking up a check.
    The vast majority of the time, when guys behave that way, it's has nothing to do with trying to with trying to be disrespectful. He's just trying to show you that he can be taken in public.

    Please note: I'm not saying that a woman should always be a "free loader."

    So where you come from it's a classist designator and people who lapse in the case of manners considered acceptable to you are seen as lesser human beings.
    Fantastic, a pretty good example of why even "common courtesy" is often just a hodge-podge of passive aggression and condescension.

    First of all, it's not where I'm "from", its where I have lived for years.

    It's not "classist" from an economic standpoint. It doesn't designate whether a person is from wealthy or humble means.
    It IS meant to demonstrate that the parents have taken time to teach (or at least try to teach) the boy to be considerate to others.

    Obviously, this strikes a nerve with you.

    You should probably check your own issues before being condescending towards other posters and cultures.
  • leftyjace
    leftyjace Posts: 304 Member
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    I get that it's nice to be able to treat people and I am both the giver and receiver among my friends. Likewise with holding doors, etc.
    I find it interesting that some men feel uncomfortable with women paying but not with men.
    To me, this seems sexist; maybe a subtle display of power.
    Interesting perspective. I suppose it's possible. I don't feel that way when Im doing it.
    For me, I'd much rather have pay equity rather than free meals.
    Are you male or female?
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
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    Yeah since we no longer practice feudalism
  • devil_in_a_blue_dress
    devil_in_a_blue_dress Posts: 5,214 Member
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    I just want somebody to buy me some tacos, ok?
  • dayone987
    dayone987 Posts: 645 Member
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    I get that it's nice to be able to treat people and I am both the giver and receiver among my friends. Likewise with holding doors, etc.
    I find it interesting that some men feel uncomfortable with women paying but not with men.
    To me, this seems sexist; maybe a subtle display of power.
    Interesting perspective. I suppose it's possible. I don't feel that way when Im doing it.
    For me, I'd much rather have pay equity rather than free meals.
    Are you male or female?

    Not sure why it matters in this conversation, but I'm female.
  • leftyjace
    leftyjace Posts: 304 Member
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    I just want somebody to buy me some tacos, ok?
    Dangit... now I'm hungry.
  • ohellotheresa
    ohellotheresa Posts: 58
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    lol i know it's the first definition, that's the point. the definition is that it's a medieval ideal for gender role behavior. It's not dead but it should be because it's based entirely on misogynist and sexist principles. WHICH I FIND PAINFULLY OBVIOUS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE FIRST DEFINITION. here's another look at the definition of chivalry lol k thanks http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/10/chivalry-degrades-women-promotes-sexism-in-society

    ^this

    this time I am saying thank you for real and not sarcastically in response to being considered a part of "hypocrisy" lol THANK YOU
  • leftyjace
    leftyjace Posts: 304 Member
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    Not sure why it matters in this conversation, but I'm female.
    Was just curious.
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
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    Leftyjace, you are a refreshing person to discuss with. You have a great attitude.
  • Bobbie8786
    Bobbie8786 Posts: 202 Member
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    lol i know it's the first definition, that's the point. the definition is that it's a medieval ideal for gender role behavior. It's not dead but it should be because it's based entirely on misogynist and sexist principles. WHICH I FIND PAINFULLY OBVIOUS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE FIRST DEFINITION. here's another look at the definition of chivalry lol k thanks http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/10/chivalry-degrades-women-promotes-sexism-in-society

    I don't think the idea of honor and being polite are in any way misogynistic. I don't care if the "idea" of it came during a time that was misogynistic, that does not negate it's value. However, I admit to being a lot older than you and raised in a much different society where being polite was a virtue. I think the current trend of complete and total self-involvement definitely indicates that living in a "polite" society is certainly on it's death bed.
  • 20Grit
    20Grit Posts: 752 Member
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    I don't get why it's not normal to hold a door for another person if they have a penis.

    I hold doors for anybody. Man, woman, child, construction worker, cop, gang bangers. Everyone except the stupid cat. I've learned if I he stands at the door looking like he wants out, and I hold the door for him, he'll sit down at the threshold and look out. Screw him.
    LOLOLOL
    I love your cat.......Heeeerrreeee kitty kitty kitty!
  • ohellotheresa
    ohellotheresa Posts: 58
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    Yeah since we no longer practice feudalism

    and THANK YOU
  • leftyjace
    leftyjace Posts: 304 Member
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    Leftyjace, you are a refreshing person to discuss with. You have a great attitude.

    Why thank you! :happy:
  • leftyjace
    leftyjace Posts: 304 Member
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    I don't think the idea of honor and being polite are in any way misogynistic. I don't care if the "idea" of it came during a time that was misogynistic, that does not negate it's value. However, I admit to being a lot older than you and raised in a much different society where being polite was a virtue. I think the current trend of complete and total self-involvement definitely indicates that living in a "polite" society is certainly on it's death bed.

    Lot of truth here.

    EDIT: I see a lot of "smarmy" comments that are quite unbecoming of polite individuals. It's unfortunate.

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