Is chivalry really dead? :(
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yeah thank you so much thanks thank you you chivalrous chivalrous bunch yeah thanks a whole lot LIKE THANK YOU SO SO SO SO MUCH oh my god thank you0
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Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.
I love statements that demonstrate a certain ignorance of the subject matter. The chivalric code was based on an assumption of inequality. It was honorable for a man of a certain position to protect and serve the weak. Once you have equality, what is being discussed is mere courtesy among equals.
Based on the Merriam Webster definition of the world "chivalry", I find it ironic that you are accusing the dictionary of being ignorant of the subject matter.
"The system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow"
So sayeth Webster's.
Also go look up ironic while you're in there.
Bingo
Both of you "gentlemen" need to look earlier in the topic where the M-W definition was already quoted... and included the 2nd possible definition, which you conveniently left out.
And ironic is exactly what I meant, seeing as how you both strive to give off an image of intelligence, yet will conveniently ignore a very valid definition of the word... which is decidedly less than honorable (maybe even chivalrous?) behavior.
[q]From m-w.com:
QUOTE:
chiv·al·ry noun \ˈshi-vəl-rē\
: the system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow
: an honorable and polite way of behaving especially toward women
I think in the modern context, the second definition is more applicable.[/q]
So you get to cherry pick your definitions but the other two "gentlemen" don't? :huh:
I suggest you look up hypocrisy the next time you open a dictionary.
At least I included the other definition in my cititation... which is more than I can say for them.0 -
lol i know it's the first definition, that's the point. the definition is that it's a medieval ideal for gender role behavior. It's not dead but it should be because it's based entirely on misogynist and sexist principles. WHICH I FIND PAINFULLY OBVIOUS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE FIRST DEFINITION. here's another look at the definition of chivalry lol k thanks http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/10/chivalry-degrades-women-promotes-sexism-in-society
^this0 -
lol i know it's the first definition, that's the point. the definition is that it's a medieval ideal for gender role behavior. It's not dead but it should be because it's based entirely on misogynist and sexist principles. WHICH I FIND PAINFULLY OBVIOUS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE FIRST DEFINITION. here's another look at the definition of chivalry lol k thanks http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/10/chivalry-degrades-women-promotes-sexism-in-society
sorry…Did you live in that time? you sound so sure...0 -
yeah thank you so much thanks thank you you chivalrous chivalrous bunch yeah thanks a whole lot LIKE THANK YOU SO SO SO SO MUCH oh my god thank you
...wat?0 -
I do sometimes, yes.
Just curious; do you cover the bill for male friends as well? And if you do, does it make you feels as good as when you pay for a woman's meal?
I think it goes back to following the example of my grandfather. He was a very well of man, a self-made successful gentleman. And he delighted in taking care of the bill. He was VERY much an old-school gentleman, and did this as part of his behavior.
I have always tried to emulate this. I feel the practice brings a smile to a woman's face, which is never a bad thing - at least in my mind. It gives me joy.
So is my behavior selfish in nature? Perhaps. It's possible I'm feeding my ego.
But it's appreciated behavior. And I feel good that I'm in a financial position to not have to think twice about it. (And no, it's not Grandpa's money - it's mine. I went out and made my own.
)
Honestly? No, it doesnt.
But then again, I'm less worried about their comfort.
And oftentimes, they get me back in the future.
Well, sometimes they do.
I get that it's nice to be able to treat people and I am both the giver and receiver among my friends. Likewise with holding doors, etc.
I find it interesting that some men feel uncomfortable with women paying but not with men.
To me, this seems sexist; maybe a subtle display of power.
For me, I'd much rather have pay equity rather than free meals.0 -
"Chivalrous" behavior is considered courteous behavior where I live.
Simply put, if a man doesn't behave that way (here), it's a reflection of his upbringing. When he does, it shows that he wasn't "raised by wolves."
It implies that his parents invested time in teaching him right from wrong and how to be considerate of another's feelings.
Now, whether he REALLY IS a good guy or not would remain to be seen.
I actually feel a great deal of sympathy for men who get their "hands slapped" for opening a car door or picking up a check.
The vast majority of the time, when guys behave that way, it's has nothing to do with trying to with trying to be disrespectful. He's just trying to show you that he can be taken in public.
Please note: I'm not saying that a woman should always be a "free loader."
So where you come from it's a classist designator and people who lapse in the case of manners considered acceptable to you are seen as lesser human beings.
Fantastic, a pretty good example of why even "common courtesy" is often just a hodge-podge of passive aggression and condescension.
First of all, it's not where I'm "from", its where I have lived for years.
It's not "classist" from an economic standpoint. It doesn't designate whether a person is from wealthy or humble means.
It IS meant to demonstrate that the parents have taken time to teach (or at least try to teach) the boy to be considerate to others.
Obviously, this strikes a nerve with you.
You should probably check your own issues before being condescending towards other posters and cultures.0 -
Interesting perspective. I suppose it's possible. I don't feel that way when Im doing it.I get that it's nice to be able to treat people and I am both the giver and receiver among my friends. Likewise with holding doors, etc.
I find it interesting that some men feel uncomfortable with women paying but not with men.
To me, this seems sexist; maybe a subtle display of power.
Are you male or female?For me, I'd much rather have pay equity rather than free meals.0 -
Yeah since we no longer practice feudalism0
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I just want somebody to buy me some tacos, ok?0
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Interesting perspective. I suppose it's possible. I don't feel that way when Im doing it.I get that it's nice to be able to treat people and I am both the giver and receiver among my friends. Likewise with holding doors, etc.
I find it interesting that some men feel uncomfortable with women paying but not with men.
To me, this seems sexist; maybe a subtle display of power.
Are you male or female?For me, I'd much rather have pay equity rather than free meals.
Not sure why it matters in this conversation, but I'm female.0 -
Dangit... now I'm hungry.I just want somebody to buy me some tacos, ok?0 -
lol i know it's the first definition, that's the point. the definition is that it's a medieval ideal for gender role behavior. It's not dead but it should be because it's based entirely on misogynist and sexist principles. WHICH I FIND PAINFULLY OBVIOUS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE FIRST DEFINITION. here's another look at the definition of chivalry lol k thanks http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/10/chivalry-degrades-women-promotes-sexism-in-society
^this
this time I am saying thank you for real and not sarcastically in response to being considered a part of "hypocrisy" lol THANK YOU0 -
Was just curious.Not sure why it matters in this conversation, but I'm female.0 -
Leftyjace, you are a refreshing person to discuss with. You have a great attitude.0
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lol i know it's the first definition, that's the point. the definition is that it's a medieval ideal for gender role behavior. It's not dead but it should be because it's based entirely on misogynist and sexist principles. WHICH I FIND PAINFULLY OBVIOUS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE FIRST DEFINITION. here's another look at the definition of chivalry lol k thanks http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/10/chivalry-degrades-women-promotes-sexism-in-society
I don't think the idea of honor and being polite are in any way misogynistic. I don't care if the "idea" of it came during a time that was misogynistic, that does not negate it's value. However, I admit to being a lot older than you and raised in a much different society where being polite was a virtue. I think the current trend of complete and total self-involvement definitely indicates that living in a "polite" society is certainly on it's death bed.0 -
LOLOLOLI don't get why it's not normal to hold a door for another person if they have a penis.
I hold doors for anybody. Man, woman, child, construction worker, cop, gang bangers. Everyone except the stupid cat. I've learned if I he stands at the door looking like he wants out, and I hold the door for him, he'll sit down at the threshold and look out. Screw him.
I love your cat.......Heeeerrreeee kitty kitty kitty!0 -
Yeah since we no longer practice feudalism
and THANK YOU0 -
Leftyjace, you are a refreshing person to discuss with. You have a great attitude.
Why thank you! :happy:0 -
I don't think the idea of honor and being polite are in any way misogynistic. I don't care if the "idea" of it came during a time that was misogynistic, that does not negate it's value. However, I admit to being a lot older than you and raised in a much different society where being polite was a virtue. I think the current trend of complete and total self-involvement definitely indicates that living in a "polite" society is certainly on it's death bed.
Lot of truth here.
EDIT: I see a lot of "smarmy" comments that are quite unbecoming of polite individuals. It's unfortunate.0 -
Yeah since we no longer practice feudalism
really?… lol What is the difference between feudalism and big government?… oh wait yes..freedom and equality right..we enjoy both in america for sure! no feudalism here…that archaic system …we have it so much better today0 -
One can only hope.
I guess people think they deserve a pat on the back for behaving politely to women, it can't just be expected. sure, the "good old days" are gone.... I agree... one can only hope that they are gone...0 -
Whereas the gateway to being in a position of power used to simply be birth, it now includes good fortune, athletic ability, and educational attainment.Yeah since we no longer practice feudalism
really?… lol What is the difference between feudalism and big government?… oh wait yes..freedom and equality right..we enjoy both in america for sure! no feudalism here…that archaic system …we have it so much better today0 -
"Chivalrous" behavior is considered courteous behavior where I live.
Simply put, if a man doesn't behave that way (here), it's a reflection of his upbringing. When he does, it shows that he wasn't "raised by wolves."
It implies that his parents invested time in teaching him right from wrong and how to be considerate of another's feelings.
Now, whether he REALLY IS a good guy or not would remain to be seen.
I actually feel a great deal of sympathy for men who get their "hands slapped" for opening a car door or picking up a check.
The vast majority of the time, when guys behave that way, it's has nothing to do with trying to with trying to be disrespectful. He's just trying to show you that he can be taken in public.
Please note: I'm not saying that a woman should always be a "free loader."
So where you come from it's a classist designator and people who lapse in the case of manners considered acceptable to you are seen as lesser human beings.
Fantastic, a pretty good example of why even "common courtesy" is often just a hodge-podge of passive aggression and condescension.
So, you can affect chivalry while lacking integrity?0 -
So you do not wish to be treated politely?I guess people think they deserve a pat on the back for behaving politely to women, it can't just be expected. sure, the "good old days" are gone.... I agree... one can only hope that they are gone...0 -
I don't think the idea of honor and being polite are in any way misogynistic. I don't care if the "idea" of it came during a time that was misogynistic, that does not negate it's value. However, I admit to being a lot older than you and raised in a much different society where being polite was a virtue. I think the current trend of complete and total self-involvement definitely indicates that living in a "polite" society is certainly on it's death bed.
Lot of truth here.
The debate (for me anyway) isn't so much about people being polite to each other, rather more about the direction of courtesies.No one on here is advocating complete and total self involvement but rather feel that it's great if people of either sex can buy meals, pay for dates, open doors, etc. for males and females.
I'm likely a lot older than you as well, not that it matters.0 -
"Chivalrous" behavior is considered courteous behavior where I live.
Simply put, if a man doesn't behave that way (here), it's a reflection of his upbringing. When he does, it shows that he wasn't "raised by wolves."
It implies that his parents invested time in teaching him right from wrong and how to be considerate of another's feelings.
Now, whether he REALLY IS a good guy or not would remain to be seen.
I actually feel a great deal of sympathy for men who get their "hands slapped" for opening a car door or picking up a check.
The vast majority of the time, when guys behave that way, it's has nothing to do with trying to with trying to be disrespectful. He's just trying to show you that he can be taken in public.
Please note: I'm not saying that a woman should always be a "free loader."
So where you come from it's a classist designator and people who lapse in the case of manners considered acceptable to you are seen as lesser human beings.
Fantastic, a pretty good example of why even "common courtesy" is often just a hodge-podge of passive aggression and condescension.
So, you can affect chivalry while lacking integrity?
Who is this directed toward?0 -
One can only hope.
I guess people think they deserve a pat on the back for behaving politely to women, it can't just be expected. sure, the "good old days" are gone.... I agree... one can only hope that they are gone...
Would you prefer to be treated like crap?
Is it not a good thing that when I am dating someone I am kind to them and treat them nicely?0 -
I don't think the idea of honor and being polite are in any way misogynistic. I don't care if the "idea" of it came during a time that was misogynistic, that does not negate it's value. However, I admit to being a lot older than you and raised in a much different society where being polite was a virtue. I think the current trend of complete and total self-involvement definitely indicates that living in a "polite" society is certainly on it's death bed.
Lot of truth here.
The debate (for me anyway) isn't so much about people being polite to each other, rather more about the direction of courtesies.No one on here is advocating complete and total self involvement but rather feel that it's great if people of either sex can buy meals, pay for dates, open doors, etc. for males and females.
I'm likely a lot older than you as well, not that it matters.
I'm older than you think...
I guess I don't understand why permitting and accepting the behavior you describe above has to be a condemnation of the behavior that I espouse. Cannot the two exist, and be appreciated for their own merits?0 -
One can only hope.
I guess people think they deserve a pat on the back for behaving politely to women, it can't just be expected. sure, the "good old days" are gone.... I agree... one can only hope that they are gone...
hilarious….Do you people really think today is much better than in the past? In which way? civl rights? voting rights? etc?… this is why our society is so enlightened and civilized today0
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