Nobel Prize Winner picks Diet of the Future
Replies
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I look forward to this as it will drive meat prices down.
Food prices are artificially controlled by farm subsidies. I'm not sure what would happen to meat prices if government policy favored plant-based agriculture.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread--but here goes my bit of foolishness anyway. 1) We couldn't possibly even begin to cover the protein needs of the human inhabitants of this planet with a "plant-based" diet for everyone. Are you willing to see a great increase in the number of children with the swollen bellies of Kwashiorkor? Because that is exactly what will happen. Increased millions of children in Africa and Asia will be protein-starved on a vegan diet. Many in Asia do not eat meat (or, at least only tiny amounts) but they DO eat dairy and eggs which are "outlawed" by a strictly "plant-based" diet. 2) Quality plant-based diets are impossible many places in the world because the farmland simply will not support massive fields of grain and vegetables. A vegan diet that is not carefully planned and executed WILL NOT yield appropriate nutrition. People in developing nations do not have the luxury of ordering the most nutritious vegan ingredients--they must have at least a meager amount of animal protein. 3) Marginal farmland--that is, land that is not suitable for crops--has always been used to raise animals. 4) Herds of wild game are not only essential for countering the "desertification" of the planet, but are also absolutely necessary for the continued survival of many, many people. There is a TED lecture available that speaks to the issue of the vital importance of grazing animals. There are areas of Africa which are starting to be reclaimed from the desert through the use of grazing animals.
I know there are plants which are protein dense: beans, lentils, soy, and many green vegetables. Much of Asia eats a mainly plant-based diet, but of course, now they want a bit more of our pie and they are now abandoning their indigenous diets. On a cross-country trip across the country a couple of years ago, I saw firsthand how CAFO's and corn fields are very much linked. I saw more CAFO's then I did free-grazing herds on my trip.
"Much of Asia?" Care to come with me to Shanghai? Tokyo? Bangkok? Hong Kong? Bali? Seoul?
Oh. Right. The Hindus.
I love exaggeration.
We'll add that to the other issues.
Message me. I would prefer taking this off line here. We can discuss this personally.
LOL
And deprive us all of our apparent much-needed education???
Oh no, please don't do that.
What about our enlightenment???
I really want to defuse whatever is happening between us in this discussion. You are obviously perturbed, and I wanted an opportunity to make peace.
If by "us" you mean "you and SunofaBeach14", then yeah, I can see what you mean.
But just so everyone is absolutely clear, I am not even slightly perturbed...
...in any way.
Amused, yes, perhaps even fascinated...
...but certainly not perturbed.
I thought you were always perturbed...0 -
Actually I spent 4 years growing such things as corn by hand and I agree it's hard work.
Because they don't use huge automated machines to work the land. Do you know how many man-hours it takes to cultivate, for example, one acre of corn by hand?
Why not?I would like to see home gardens become more popular.
*LIKE.
Home gardens don't produce many calories per day.
An acre of corn isn't exactly a home garden.0 -
I look forward to this as it will drive meat prices down.
Food prices are artificially controlled by farm subsidies. I'm not sure what would happen to meat prices if government policy favored plant-based agriculture.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread--but here goes my bit of foolishness anyway. 1) We couldn't possibly even begin to cover the protein needs of the human inhabitants of this planet with a "plant-based" diet for everyone. Are you willing to see a great increase in the number of children with the swollen bellies of Kwashiorkor? Because that is exactly what will happen. Increased millions of children in Africa and Asia will be protein-starved on a vegan diet. Many in Asia do not eat meat (or, at least only tiny amounts) but they DO eat dairy and eggs which are "outlawed" by a strictly "plant-based" diet. 2) Quality plant-based diets are impossible many places in the world because the farmland simply will not support massive fields of grain and vegetables. A vegan diet that is not carefully planned and executed WILL NOT yield appropriate nutrition. People in developing nations do not have the luxury of ordering the most nutritious vegan ingredients--they must have at least a meager amount of animal protein. 3) Marginal farmland--that is, land that is not suitable for crops--has always been used to raise animals. 4) Herds of wild game are not only essential for countering the "desertification" of the planet, but are also absolutely necessary for the continued survival of many, many people. There is a TED lecture available that speaks to the issue of the vital importance of grazing animals. There are areas of Africa which are starting to be reclaimed from the desert through the use of grazing animals.
I know there are plants which are protein dense: beans, lentils, soy, and many green vegetables. Much of Asia eats a mainly plant-based diet, but of course, now they want a bit more of our pie and they are now abandoning their indigenous diets. On a cross-country trip across the country a couple of years ago, I saw firsthand how CAFO's and corn fields are very much linked. I saw more CAFO's then I did free-grazing herds on my trip.
"Much of Asia?" Care to come with me to Shanghai? Tokyo? Bangkok? Hong Kong? Bali? Seoul?
Oh. Right. The Hindus.
I love exaggeration.
We'll add that to the other issues.
Message me. I would prefer taking this off line here. We can discuss this personally.
LOL
And deprive us all of our apparent much-needed education???
Oh no, please don't do that.
What about our enlightenment???
I really want to defuse whatever is happening between us in this discussion. You are obviously perturbed, and I wanted an opportunity to make peace.
If by "us" you mean "you and SunofaBeach14", then yeah, I can see what you mean.
But just so everyone is absolutely clear, I am not even slightly perturbed...
...in any way.
Amused, yes, perhaps even fascinated...
...but certainly not perturbed.
I didn't mean you at all. And for the record, I'm really glad you aren't perturbed.0 -
I look forward to this as it will drive meat prices down.
Food prices are artificially controlled by farm subsidies. I'm not sure what would happen to meat prices if government policy favored plant-based agriculture.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread--but here goes my bit of foolishness anyway. 1) We couldn't possibly even begin to cover the protein needs of the human inhabitants of this planet with a "plant-based" diet for everyone. Are you willing to see a great increase in the number of children with the swollen bellies of Kwashiorkor? Because that is exactly what will happen. Increased millions of children in Africa and Asia will be protein-starved on a vegan diet. Many in Asia do not eat meat (or, at least only tiny amounts) but they DO eat dairy and eggs which are "outlawed" by a strictly "plant-based" diet. 2) Quality plant-based diets are impossible many places in the world because the farmland simply will not support massive fields of grain and vegetables. A vegan diet that is not carefully planned and executed WILL NOT yield appropriate nutrition. People in developing nations do not have the luxury of ordering the most nutritious vegan ingredients--they must have at least a meager amount of animal protein. 3) Marginal farmland--that is, land that is not suitable for crops--has always been used to raise animals. 4) Herds of wild game are not only essential for countering the "desertification" of the planet, but are also absolutely necessary for the continued survival of many, many people. There is a TED lecture available that speaks to the issue of the vital importance of grazing animals. There are areas of Africa which are starting to be reclaimed from the desert through the use of grazing animals.
I know there are plants which are protein dense: beans, lentils, soy, and many green vegetables. Much of Asia eats a mainly plant-based diet, but of course, now they want a bit more of our pie and they are now abandoning their indigenous diets. On a cross-country trip across the country a couple of years ago, I saw firsthand how CAFO's and corn fields are very much linked. I saw more CAFO's then I did free-grazing herds on my trip.
"Much of Asia?" Care to come with me to Shanghai? Tokyo? Bangkok? Hong Kong? Bali? Seoul?
Oh. Right. The Hindus.
I love exaggeration.
We'll add that to the other issues.
Message me. I would prefer taking this off line here. We can discuss this personally.
LOL
And deprive us all of our apparent much-needed education???
Oh no, please don't do that.
What about our enlightenment???
I really want to defuse whatever is happening between us in this discussion. You are obviously perturbed, and I wanted an opportunity to make peace.
If by "us" you mean "you and SunofaBeach14", then yeah, I can see what you mean.
But just so everyone is absolutely clear, I am not even slightly perturbed...
...in any way.
Amused, yes, perhaps even fascinated...
...but certainly not perturbed.
I thought you were always perturbed...
I can't imagine taking this "conversation" off line. The only people who have been perturbed are the vegans. I continue to simply be amused0 -
I hear insects might be next on the menu.
Insects are animals and not vegan.0 -
I am not a Nobel Prize Winner, but I think this thread should roll.
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I am not a Nobel Prize Winner, but I think this thread should roll.
That kind of looks like Alfred Nobel, come to think of it.0 -
I am not a Nobel Prize Winner, but I think this thread should roll.
You should get a Fields Medal for adding bacon to a cinnamon roll.0 -
I am not a Nobel Prize Winner, but I think this thread should roll.
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It would mean that meat eaters would have to pay the real price of raising meat, not the heavily subsidized one they see now. That is, if government stopped subsidizing them. Government does not now subsidize crops grown for human consumption; only crops grown for animal consumption (i.e., meat and dairy on the hoof)
Food prices are artificially controlled by farm subsidies. I'm not sure what would happen to meat prices if government policy favored plant-based agriculture.I look forward to this as it will drive meat prices down.0 -
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
I am not a Nobel Prize Winner, but I think this thread should roll.
You should get a Fields Medal for adding bacon to a cinnamon roll.
I have never considered rolling the bacon up in the roll. I always sprinkle bacon pieces on top. I think the roll method would yield a better meat to roll ratio.0 -
I am trying to decide if i want in after this roll or not.0
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It would mean that meat eaters would have to pay the real price of raising meat, not the heavily subsidized one they see now. That is, if government stopped subsidizing them. Government does not now subsidize crops grown for human consumption; only crops grown for animal consumption (i.e., meat and dairy on the hoof)
Food prices are artificially controlled by farm subsidies. I'm not sure what would happen to meat prices if government policy favored plant-based agriculture.I look forward to this as it will drive meat prices down.
Seriously?0 -
I am trying to decide if i want in after this roll or not.
I think the answer is YES0 -
I am not a Nobel Prize Winner, but I think this thread should roll.
You should get a Fields Medal for adding bacon to a cinnamon roll.
I have never considered rolling the bacon up in the roll. I always sprinkle bacon pieces on top. I think the roll method would yield a better meat to roll ratio.
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0 -
No bolognese.0 -
It would mean that meat eaters would have to pay the real price of raising meat, not the heavily subsidized one they see now. That is, if government stopped subsidizing them. Government does not now subsidize crops grown for human consumption; only crops grown for animal consumption (i.e., meat and dairy on the hoof)
Food prices are artificially controlled by farm subsidies. I'm not sure what would happen to meat prices if government policy favored plant-based agriculture.I look forward to this as it will drive meat prices down.
Seriously?
That's only slightly overstated. Fruit and vegetable farmers are mostly unsubsidized.0 -
I just feel like saying, I was a veg for 10 years -- and love nooch and several vegan recipes.
But I hate bad science and I hate propoganda.
ETA:
for the roll
ETA (to be fair/polite): OP hopes this is true: http://www.animalequality.net/news/603/nobel-prize-winner-predicts-rise-veganism-20140 -
Fruits and vegetables for human consumption are mostly unsubsidized:
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/fairness-why-fruits-vegetables-are-excluded-from-farm-subsidies/#.UttJamQo5O00 -
I just feel like saying, I was a veg for 10 years -- and love nooch and several vegan recipes.
But I hate bad science and I hate propoganda.
ETA:
for the roll
In. And I agree. I have no problem at all with people making personal choices. It is definitely not for me though.
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in for the stupid0
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It would mean that meat eaters would have to pay the real price of raising meat, not the heavily subsidized one they see now. That is, if government stopped subsidizing them. Government does not now subsidize crops grown for human consumption; only crops grown for animal consumption (i.e., meat and dairy on the hoof)
Seriously?
That's only slightly overstated. Fruit and vegetable farmers are mostly unsubsidized.
You think that's "slightly overstated"? :huh:
Perhaps that's part of the problem in discussions like this one.
What you call "slightly overstated", I call a "gross and intentionally misleading distortion of the truth".
ETA: And great...I guess I'm in the roll now.0 -
It would be awesome if more people were vegetarian or vegan. I have been a vegetarian for 16 years and tried Veganism a couple of times. The hardest part is knowing whether there are hidden by-products in a food. I wish they would put at the bottom of the label whether their were by-products, the same way they write if a food has dairy, nuts, or gluten in it. Maybe if this became a concern for more people more foods would be labeled.0
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Fruits and vegetables for human consumption are mostly unsubsidized:
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/fairness-why-fruits-vegetables-are-excluded-from-farm-subsidies/#.UttJamQo5O0
Yet they manage to be quite successful without the subsidy.
"So can farmers make it without government support?
"As an economist, I'd say yeah, absolutely, I think they should be able to survive," Glauber says. "I mean you look at fruits and vegetables, that sector, there are a lot of programs for those crops, but they haven't received the support that some of the others have." That's true – direct payments and many other farm programs have never applied to fruits and vegetables."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2011/10/04/141047164/farm-bill-direct-payments-to-farmers-may-dry-up-in-20120 -
It would mean that meat eaters would have to pay the real price of raising meat, not the heavily subsidized one they see now. That is, if government stopped subsidizing them. Government does not now subsidize crops grown for human consumption; only crops grown for animal consumption (i.e., meat and dairy on the hoof)
Seriously?
That's only slightly overstated. Fruit and vegetable farmers are mostly unsubsidized.
You think that's "slightly overstated"? :huh:
Perhaps that's part of the problem in discussions like this one.
What you call "slightly overstated", I call a "gross and intentionally misleading distortion of the truth".
ETA: And great...I guess I'm in the roll now.
I just posted a link to an article about fruit/veg subsidies.0 -
Fruits and vegetables for human consumption are mostly unsubsidized:
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/fairness-why-fruits-vegetables-are-excluded-from-farm-subsidies/#.UttJamQo5O0
And grains? Poster said crops. We obviously grow enormous quantities of grain in this country.0 -
Fruits and vegetables for human consumption are mostly unsubsidized:
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/fairness-why-fruits-vegetables-are-excluded-from-farm-subsidies/#.UttJamQo5O0
And grains? Poster said crops. We obviously grow enormous quantities of grain in this country.
Many farm subsidies go to farms producing grain to feed livestock.0 -
It would mean that meat eaters would have to pay the real price of raising meat, not the heavily subsidized one they see now. That is, if government stopped subsidizing them. Government does not now subsidize crops grown for human consumption; only crops grown for animal consumption (i.e., meat and dairy on the hoof)
Seriously?
That's only slightly overstated. Fruit and vegetable farmers are mostly unsubsidized.
You think that's "slightly overstated"? :huh:
Perhaps that's part of the problem in discussions like this one.
What you call "slightly overstated", I call a "gross and intentionally misleading distortion of the truth".
ETA: And great...I guess I'm in the roll now.
I just posted a link to an article about fruit/veg subsidies.
And that article talks about produce farmers not wanting the subsidies because it would limit their planting flexibility.0
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