So can we put this topic to bed now?

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  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    This is EXACTLY why our life expectancy dropped when we discovered how to refine sugar.

    When did that happen?

    image1_7.png

    See. All the info proving the point I was trying to make. None of the work.

    Though I'm pretty sure we were refining sugar before the US was founded
    All Countries life expectancy went up just not the US.........lately though the US's world ranking has dropped from if I remember correctly, 11th place not too many years ago to 42 or around there.......basically not good comparatively speaking.

    Any chance this is caused by obesity from excess consumption > activity?
    I don't live in the States but I found this. It's not from sugar though.

    http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=13497

    Interesting read. Did a search for sugar - did not come up once =). However, automobiles did - either directly or indirectly.
    That link had nothing to do with sugar, it was a counter point to the fact that Americans life expectancy has gone up since 1900. It kinda seemed like everything is good, look, we live longer.

    Oh, my comment about sugar was not directed at you as I know you would have looked at it. As I say, it was interesting - it also shows that you cannot look at a single statistic out of context.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,017 Member
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    This is EXACTLY why our life expectancy dropped when we discovered how to refine sugar.

    When did that happen?

    image1_7.png

    See. All the info proving the point I was trying to make. None of the work.

    Though I'm pretty sure we were refining sugar before the US was founded
    All Countries life expectancy went up just not the US.........lately though the US's world ranking has dropped from if I remember correctly, 11th place not too many years ago to 42 or around there.......basically not good comparatively speaking.

    Any chance this is caused by obesity from excess consumption > activity?
    I don't live in the States but I found this. It's not from sugar though.

    http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=13497

    Interesting read. Did a search for sugar - did not come up once =). However, automobiles did - either directly or indirectly.
    That link had nothing to do with sugar, it was a counter point to the fact that Americans life expectancy has gone up since 1900. It kinda seemed like everything is good, look, we live longer.

    Oh, my comment about sugar was not directed at you as I know you would have looked at it. As I say, it was interesting - it also shows that you cannot look at a single statistic out of context.
    Exactly. People seem to get their dander up when sugar is involved.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Skimmed through the responses so may have missed it, but did anyone link the study that apparently purports to show this causality?

    Also, the article does not say what the OP or even its own title is even saying.

    For example "But the Canadian Sugar Institute said the scientific consensus is that “there is no evidence of harm attributed to current sugar consumption levels. Dietary advice must be based on the totality of evidence, not single studies suggesting an association between individual dietary factors and disease.”
    Yes I saw that, which is true. Studies never show causality for single ingredients, but more toward lifestyle and declining health markers in certain populations and not in individuals.

    Yep. But yet, people are always trying to interpolate them into finding a single cause and making out a single food (like sugar) to be the bogeyman rather than looking at the picture more holistically.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,017 Member
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    Skimmed through the responses so may have missed it, but did anyone link the study that apparently purports to show this causality?

    Also, the article does not say what the OP or even its own title is even saying.

    For example "But the Canadian Sugar Institute said the scientific consensus is that “there is no evidence of harm attributed to current sugar consumption levels. Dietary advice must be based on the totality of evidence, not single studies suggesting an association between individual dietary factors and disease.”
    Yes I saw that, which is true. Studies never show causality for single ingredients, but more toward lifestyle and declining health markers in certain populations and not in individuals.

    Yep. But yet, people are always trying to interpolate them into finding a single cause and making out a single food (like sugar) to be the bogeyman rather than looking at the picture more holistically.
    Stress is the new tobacco. And BTW thanks for the new word "interpolate" lol , never heard that before....I must be dumb.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member
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    Skimmed through the responses so may have missed it, but did anyone link the study that apparently purports to show this causality?

    Also, the article does not say what the OP or even its own title is even saying.

    For example "But the Canadian Sugar Institute said the scientific consensus is that “there is no evidence of harm attributed to current sugar consumption levels. Dietary advice must be based on the totality of evidence, not single studies suggesting an association between individual dietary factors and disease.”
    Yes I saw that, which is true. Studies never show causality for single ingredients, but more toward lifestyle and declining health markers in certain populations and not in individuals.

    Yep. But yet, people are always trying to interpolate them into finding a single cause and making out a single food (like sugar) to be the bogeyman rather than looking at the picture more holistically.
    Stress is the new tobacco.
    So do I get a 10 minute stress break to go outside every hour? I would be totally down with that. I mean, not now 'cause cold. But definitely in the spring.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    Yep. But yet, people are always trying to interpolate them into finding a single cause and making out a single food (like sugar) to be the bogeyman rather than looking at the picture more holistically.

    People want a bogeyman more than they want truth.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    Modus omnibus in rebus, soror, optimum est habitu;
    Nimia omnia nimium exhibent negotium hominibus ex se.

    In everything the middle course is best: all things in excess bring trouble to men.

    ~Plautus, Pænulus, I. 2. 29.

    Good advice for 200BC, still good advice...

    this ^^^^


    Although I'll trump you The Buddha teaching "The Middle Way" circa 500BC
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,017 Member
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    Yep. But yet, people are always trying to interpolate them into finding a single cause and making out a single food (like sugar) to be the bogeyman rather than looking at the picture more holistically.

    People want a bogeyman more than they want truth.
    Of course they do, it allows them to shift blame or to add fuel to their subconsciousness that see's the world in black or white.
  • Cadori
    Cadori Posts: 4,810 Member
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    My daughter did not even taste sugar until she started kindergarten. The teacher called me one day and said, I think you better lighten up on the sugar scare. One of my daughter's classmates had a birthday and brought in cupcakes. I had told my daughter that sugar would rot your teeth. Well, it will. My daughter wouldn't eat the cupcakes. To this day, she is a size 2 and never a weight problem. :-)

    Maman? Eest que vous?
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,081 Member
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    My daughter did not even taste sugar until she started kindergarten. The teacher called me one day and said, I think you better lighten up on the sugar scare. One of my daughter's classmates had a birthday and brought in cupcakes. I had told my daughter that sugar would rot your teeth. Well, it will. My daughter wouldn't eat the cupcakes. To this day, she is a size 2 and never a weight problem. :-)

    I think your attitude is too extreme - I agree with the teacher.

    Yes, too much sugar is bad for both weight control and dental care - I don't think anyone is arguing with that.

    But an occasional cupcake is not going to make anyone overweight or rot their teeth (if they have good toothbrushing habits and an otherwise balanced diet)
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    My daughter did not even taste sugar until she started kindergarten. He teacher called me one day and said, I think you better lighten up on the sugar scare. One of my daughter's classmates had a birthday and brought in cupcakes. I had told my daughter that sugar would rot your teeth. Well, it will. My daughter wouldn't eat the cupcakes. To this day, she is a size 2 and never a weight problem. :-)


    ...


    I can't even start with this

    Because.....? If sugar was just found today and had to go through all the FDA approvals, it would fail. It is very bad for all of us.

    The FDA regularly takes action against raw sugar when impurities are found and make it not suitable for human use. They actually require a certain level of refinement. Reality, it's tough getting used to it.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    Modus omnibus in rebus, soror, optimum est habitu;
    Nimia omnia nimium exhibent negotium hominibus ex se.

    In everything the middle course is best: all things in excess bring trouble to men.

    ~Plautus, Pænulus, I. 2. 29.

    Good advice for 200BC, still good advice...

    this ^^^^


    Although I'll trump you The Buddha teaching "The Middle Way" circa 500BC

    Quite sophrosyne. :bigsmile:
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    My daughter did not even taste sugar until she started kindergarten. The teacher called me one day and said, I think you better lighten up on the sugar scare. One of my daughter's classmates had a birthday and brought in cupcakes. I had told my daughter that sugar would rot your teeth. Well, it will. My daughter wouldn't eat the cupcakes. To this day, she is a size 2 and never a weight problem. :-)

    I think your attitude is too extreme - I agree with the teacher.

    Yes, too much sugar is bad for both weight control and dental care - I don't think anyone is arguing with that.

    But an occasional cupcake is not going to make anyone overweight or rot their teeth (if they have good toothbrushing habits and an otherwise balanced diet)

    ^^^^^ this

    kids shouldn't be afraid to eat a cupcake. And cupcakes every now and then won't hurt kids either. It depends on what happens the rest of the time, i.e. balanced diet, good dental hygiene habits.

    also, my mum told me that certain foods could rot my teeth, it never made me afraid to eat them, because she explained the difference between eating them occasionally and eating them constantly, and the importance of cleaning your teeth, especially after eating sugary foods. So I don't think a child being afraid to eat a cupcake to the point that a teacher actually has to discuss the issue with the child's parent is simply the result of the child being told that sugary food contributes to tooth decay....
  • bio_fit
    bio_fit Posts: 307 Member
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    A hypothesis is a theory. What study proves everything this article is stating? I don't get it, I was expecting to see proof.

    No - in science, a hypothesis is very different from a theory!
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    I home cooked using honey. It's much better for you than white sugar or even brown sugar. But I also cut the sugar in 1/2 of what the recipe called for. Didn't use it very often either. Only on special occasions. Never missed it either.

    Honey - honey is made of sugar. Didn't the bees tell you?

    Regurgitated sugar at that.

    That must be what gives it its magical 'safe' properties.

    Processing, by any other name would smell as sweet as bee barf.

    -Shakespoore, the other brother.
  • twixlepennie
    twixlepennie Posts: 1,074 Member
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    I home cooked using honey. It's much better for you than white sugar or even brown sugar. But I also cut the sugar in 1/2 of what the recipe called for. Didn't use it very often either. Only on special occasions. Never missed it either.

    :huh: No. It's not.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    Reading the actual study....

    The NNH data in the study is interesting - The number needed to harm (NNH) is an epidemiological measure that indicates how many patients need to be exposed to a risk-factor over a specific period to cause harm in one patient that would not otherwise have been harmed.

    Of the people consuming >=21.3% of calories from sucrose over 15 years 1 in 22 would be expected to suffer an adverse effect as a result. Range of estimate is 13 to 66. So compared to eating <9.6% of calories as sucrose the extra risk is between 1 in 13 and 1 in 66, with expected 1 in 22 or ~5%. A 5% chance of a heart disease problem as a result of eating more than double the amount of sugar.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 5,948 Member
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    The point is that the study doesn't appear to have corrected for a significant number of factors while isolating sugar. They established a correlation, but did not establish causation. Honestly there probably aren't many people who get as much sugar as I do while getting the quantity of protein and vegetables that I do while exercising 3-10 hours a week and maintaining <15% body fat.

    I imagine if one is sedentary then watching sugar intake could be of importance. That said, IMO, it is far deadlier to be sedentary then to consume sugar.

    The only time sugar is deadly, is when my 3 year old has some right before bed...
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,017 Member
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    I home cooked using honey. It's much better for you than white sugar or even brown sugar. But I also cut the sugar in 1/2 of what the recipe called for. Didn't use it very often either. Only on special occasions. Never missed it either.

    Honey - honey is made of sugar. Didn't the bees tell you?

    Regurgitated sugar at that.

    That must be what gives it its magical 'safe' properties.

    Processing, by any other name would smell as sweet as bee barf.

    -Shakespoore, the other brother.
    lol.
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    Modus omnibus in rebus, soror, optimum est habitu;
    Nimia omnia nimium exhibent negotium hominibus ex se.

    In everything the middle course is best: all things in excess bring trouble to men.

    ~Plautus, Pænulus, I. 2. 29.

    Good advice for 200BC, still good advice...

    this ^^^^


    Although I'll trump you The Buddha teaching "The Middle Way" circa 500BC
    It's thinly-disguised circular reasoning. "In excess" is only relative to the point at which something becomes harmful. And "the middle path" is simply "that which is not harmful."

    All it says is (!harmful) != (!!harmful)

    No surprise there. :wink:

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