A Calorie is NOT just a Calorie

_HeartsOnFire_

And science people want science here you go:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.ful

"Thermodynamics dictate that a calorie is a calorie regardless of the macronutrient composition of the diet. Further research on differences in the composition of weight loss and on the influence of satiety on compliance with energy-restricted diets is needed to explain the observed increase in weight loss with diets high in protein and/or low in carbohydrate. "

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

"Conventional wisdom says that since a calorie is a calorie, regardless of its source, the best advice for weight control is simply to eat less and exercise more. Yet emerging research suggests that some foods and eating patterns may make it easier to keep calories in check, while others may make people more likely to overeat."



And one of my favorite quotes:

"Thus, studies using extreme diets may be useful for probing biochemical pathways, but they have no relevance to the human diet or to current consumption."

You...I like you.

auddii

And science people want science here you go:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.ful

"Thermodynamics dictate that a calorie is a calorie regardless of the macronutrient composition of the diet. Further research on differences in the composition of weight loss and on the influence of satiety on compliance with energy-restricted diets is needed to explain the observed increase in weight loss with diets high in protein and/or low in carbohydrate. "

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

"Conventional wisdom says that since a calorie is a calorie, regardless of its source, the best advice for weight control is simply to eat less and exercise more. Yet emerging research suggests that some foods and eating patterns may make it easier to keep calories in check, while others may make people more likely to overeat."



And one of my favorite quotes:

"Thus, studies using extreme diets may be useful for probing biochemical pathways, but they have no relevance to the human diet or to current consumption."

All this says is that people tend to have problems keeping a diet. That's not exactly anything new.

Well that, and the macronutrient breakdown does not actually cause more weight loss, it's the calorie deficit. While the macro breakdown has an impact it's on satiety, it does not affect how the calories are burned (or however we're phrasing not all calories are equal).

MissMeghan802

You know, people who argue this typically lack logging consistency or are desperately grasping at straws to make up reasons in their mind to why their loss is slower than they like. I'm 5'3.5" 119 lbs and lose 1 lb a week on 1700 calories of fast food, ice cream, pizza, etc. So, calories seem to be calories for me. Maybe I'm just a magical fairy though. I would be okay with this. As long as I got wings.

Omg, haha! This made me laugh out loud! I think I may be a fairy too! I eat whatever I want and have lost 43 pounds in 6 months!

MireyGal76

And science people want science here you go:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.ful

"Thermodynamics dictate that a calorie is a calorie regardless of the macronutrient composition of the diet. Further research on differences in the composition of weight loss and on the influence of satiety on compliance with energy-restricted diets is needed to explain the observed increase in weight loss with diets high in protein and/or low in carbohydrate. "

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

"Conventional wisdom says that since a calorie is a calorie, regardless of its source, the best advice for weight control is simply to eat less and exercise more. Yet emerging research suggests that some foods and eating patterns may make it easier to keep calories in check, while others may make people more likely to overeat."



And one of my favorite quotes:

"Thus, studies using extreme diets may be useful for probing biochemical pathways, but they have no relevance to the human diet or to current consumption."

All this says is that people tend to have problems keeping a diet. That's not exactly anything new.

I read it to say...

a cal is a cal.

but some foods leave you feeling hungrier than others... so be smart about what you eat... especially if you are hungry all the time.

and diets suck


*takes a bite out of her intense mint dark chocolate square... cuz shes had lots of filling healthy food and now she wants SOME CHOCOLATE!!! oh and she has room in her budget for it*

psuLemon

And science people want science here you go:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.ful

"Thermodynamics dictate that a calorie is a calorie regardless of the macronutrient composition of the diet. Further research on differences in the composition of weight loss and on the influence of satiety on compliance with energy-restricted diets is needed to explain the observed increase in weight loss with diets high in protein and/or low in carbohydrate. "

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

"Conventional wisdom says that since a calorie is a calorie, regardless of its source, the best advice for weight control is simply to eat less and exercise more. Yet emerging research suggests that some foods and eating patterns may make it easier to keep calories in check, while others may make people more likely to overeat."



And one of my favorite quotes:

"Thus, studies using extreme diets may be useful for probing biochemical pathways, but they have no relevance to the human diet or to current consumption."

You...I like you.

:flowerforyou:

seamonster1203

Most people confuse their own personal results, with absolute proof and they start making fools of themselves. Switch from a very bad diet, to a somewhat bad diet, and you will lose weight. Does not mean you are now a nutrition expert!

TheEffort

BUMP

SezxyStef

Most people confuse their own personal results, with absolute proof and they start making fools of themselves. Switch from a very bad diet, to a somewhat bad diet, and you will lose weight. Does not mean you are now a nutrition expert!

but when someone says a calorie is not a calorie but they mean food has different nutrional values then they should say food has different nutrional values and some keep you feeling fuller longer...not a calorie is not a calorie cause it is.

ninerbuff

Most people confuse their own personal results, with absolute proof and they start making fools of themselves. Switch from a very bad diet, to a somewhat bad diet, and you will lose weight. Does not mean you are now a nutrition expert!

Wouldn't lose weight if the calories were still the same count.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Will32283

Eat low carbs, move around a lot and you burn that fat as keytones, plus the other body fat you have.

How does that make you fat??

The Keytones are a band.

I saw them open up for the Deftones in 1999

ninerbuff

Most people confuse their own personal results, with absolute proof and they start making fools of themselves. Switch from a very bad diet, to a somewhat bad diet, and you will lose weight. Does not mean you are now a nutrition expert!

but when someone says a calorie is not a calorie but they mean food has different nutrional values then they should say food has different nutrional values and some keep you feeling fuller longer...not a calorie is not a calorie cause it is.

Maybe some people need to hear it like this;

On the left you have a Yugo. On the right you have a Mercedes Benz. Both cars weigh the same. But the Mercedez is a much better quality car, has more luxury, is better safety rated, etc.

But they still weigh the same. All the stuff doesn't change how much either weighs.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

lstpaul

Great article! Thanks for sharing it, the nutrition class that I'm in has touched on a lot of these same points.

mccindy72

I don't think you understand what ketones are. When your body doesn't have enough insulin to help it break down glocuse into the blood for energy, it breaks fat down into ketones instead. This is NOT normal and is also VERY dangerous to the body. It's what happens to people with Type I Diabetes that puts them into Diabetic Ketoacidosis and potentially a coma, and even death. It doesn't happen in the NORMAL body.

Please stop with the ketone malarky.

Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs due to a combination of different factors, not simply the presence of ketones in your blood. Mere ketones alone are insufficient to diagnose a state of diabetic ketoacidosis and eating a low carb diet that results in a state of ketosis does not magically lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Please stop with the fear mongering.

Medical facts: http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/complications/ketoacidosis-dka.html

SezxyStef

Most people confuse their own personal results, with absolute proof and they start making fools of themselves. Switch from a very bad diet, to a somewhat bad diet, and you will lose weight. Does not mean you are now a nutrition expert!

but when someone says a calorie is not a calorie but they mean food has different nutrional values then they should say food has different nutrional values and some keep you feeling fuller longer...not a calorie is not a calorie cause it is.

Maybe some people need to hear it like this;

On the left you have a Yugo. On the right you have a Mercedes Benz. Both cars weigh the same. But the Mercedez is a much better quality car, has more luxury, is better safety rated, etc.

But they still weigh the same. All the stuff doesn't change how much either weighs.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Maybe I just wish people wouldn't talk code...:grumble: :grumble: :grumble:

My husband says men don't talk code...he needs to visit these forums...

And this is the code I am speaking of

Woman says "Oh an ice cream would taste good right now"="I want ice cream now"
Man says "I want ice cream"="I want ice cream"

auddii

I don't think you understand what ketones are. When your body doesn't have enough insulin to help it break down glocuse into the blood for energy, it breaks fat down into ketones instead. This is NOT normal and is also VERY dangerous to the body. It's what happens to people with Type I Diabetes that puts them into Diabetic Ketoacidosis and potentially a coma, and even death. It doesn't happen in the NORMAL body.

Please stop with the ketone malarky.

Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs due to a combination of different factors, not simply the presence of ketones in your blood. Mere ketones alone are insufficient to diagnose a state of diabetic ketoacidosis and eating a low carb diet that results in a state of ketosis does not magically lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Please stop with the fear mongering.

Medical facts: http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/complications/ketoacidosis-dka.html

While I don't follow low carb and don't promote ketogenic diet, there is a difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis. The concentrations of ketones in ketoacidosis is much higher, and I don't know if there have ever been cases of ketoacidosis in non-diabetics.

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

ETA: Apparently there have been cases in extreme hyperthyroidism as well:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15320977

mccindy72

I don't think you understand what ketones are. When your body doesn't have enough insulin to help it break down glocuse into the blood for energy, it breaks fat down into ketones instead. This is NOT normal and is also VERY dangerous to the body. It's what happens to people with Type I Diabetes that puts them into Diabetic Ketoacidosis and potentially a coma, and even death. It doesn't happen in the NORMAL body.

Please stop with the ketone malarky.

Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs due to a combination of different factors, not simply the presence of ketones in your blood. Mere ketones alone are insufficient to diagnose a state of diabetic ketoacidosis and eating a low carb diet that results in a state of ketosis does not magically lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Please stop with the fear mongering.

Medical facts: http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/complications/ketoacidosis-dka.html

While I don't follow low carb and don't promote ketogenic diet, there is a difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis. The concentrations of ketones in ketoacidosis is much higher, and I don't know if there have ever been cases of ketoacidosis in non-diabetics.

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

my point was that there's no medical basis for 'burning ketones' as the poster was claiming. It will only happen if there is not enough insulin present to carry the glucose into the bloodstream. It's not a fuel source or weight loss program.

_HeartsOnFire_

I has a sad...this thread is slowing down...:frown:

auddii

I don't think you understand what ketones are. When your body doesn't have enough insulin to help it break down glocuse into the blood for energy, it breaks fat down into ketones instead. This is NOT normal and is also VERY dangerous to the body. It's what happens to people with Type I Diabetes that puts them into Diabetic Ketoacidosis and potentially a coma, and even death. It doesn't happen in the NORMAL body.

Please stop with the ketone malarky.

Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs due to a combination of different factors, not simply the presence of ketones in your blood. Mere ketones alone are insufficient to diagnose a state of diabetic ketoacidosis and eating a low carb diet that results in a state of ketosis does not magically lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Please stop with the fear mongering.

Medical facts: http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/complications/ketoacidosis-dka.html

While I don't follow low carb and don't promote ketogenic diet, there is a difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis. The concentrations of ketones in ketoacidosis is much higher, and I don't know if there have ever been cases of ketoacidosis in non-diabetics.

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

my point was that there's no medical basis for 'burning ketones' as the poster was claiming. It will only happen if there is not enough insulin present to carry the glucose into the bloodstream. It's not a fuel source or weight loss program.

That I agree with.

_HeartsOnFire_

I don't think you understand what ketones are. When your body doesn't have enough insulin to help it break down glocuse into the blood for energy, it breaks fat down into ketones instead. This is NOT normal and is also VERY dangerous to the body. It's what happens to people with Type I Diabetes that puts them into Diabetic Ketoacidosis and potentially a coma, and even death. It doesn't happen in the NORMAL body.

Please stop with the ketone malarky.

Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs due to a combination of different factors, not simply the presence of ketones in your blood. Mere ketones alone are insufficient to diagnose a state of diabetic ketoacidosis and eating a low carb diet that results in a state of ketosis does not magically lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Please stop with the fear mongering.

Medical facts: http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/complications/ketoacidosis-dka.html

While I don't follow low carb and don't promote ketogenic diet, there is a difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis. The concentrations of ketones in ketoacidosis is much higher, and I don't know if there have ever been cases of ketoacidosis in non-diabetics.

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

my point was that there's no medical basis for 'burning ketones' as the poster was claiming. It will only happen if there is not enough insulin present to carry the glucose into the bloodstream. It's not a fuel source or weight loss program.

Oh but what about the Rasberry Ketones?!?!? Huh huh??? I mean they GOTTA work and do something right?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA

jonnythan

I has a sad...this thread is slowing down...:frown:

Our primal tennis friend unfortunately left. I hope I didn't scare him away with all that talk of peptide bonds and whatnot.

_HeartsOnFire_

I has a sad...this thread is slowing down...:frown:

Our primal tennis friend unfortunately left. I hope I didn't scare him away with all that talk of peptide bonds and whatnot.

Maybe the words were too big? Or he couldn't get a proper grasp of how to misspell them enough.

ETA: You were brilliant by the way! Brilliant.

zyxst

I has a sad...this thread is slowing down...:frown:

Our primal tennis friend unfortunately left. I hope I didn't scare him away with all that talk of peptide bonds and whatnot.

You gotta stop scaring people with science.

fast_eddie_72

And science people want science here you go:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.ful

"Thermodynamics dictate that a calorie is a calorie regardless of the macronutrient composition of the diet. Further research on differences in the composition of weight loss and on the influence of satiety on compliance with energy-restricted diets is needed to explain the observed increase in weight loss with diets high in protein and/or low in carbohydrate. "

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

"Conventional wisdom says that since a calorie is a calorie, regardless of its source, the best advice for weight control is simply to eat less and exercise more. Yet emerging research suggests that some foods and eating patterns may make it easier to keep calories in check, while others may make people more likely to overeat."



And one of my favorite quotes:

"Thus, studies using extreme diets may be useful for probing biochemical pathways, but they have no relevance to the human diet or to current consumption."

All this says is that people tend to have problems keeping a diet. That's not exactly anything new.

That isn't "all" it says. It says what common sense says. A calorie is a calorie just as a pound is a pound, but that is incomplete information with regard to devising a weight loss plan that is likely to result in success.

parkscs

I don't think you understand what ketones are. When your body doesn't have enough insulin to help it break down glocuse into the blood for energy, it breaks fat down into ketones instead. This is NOT normal and is also VERY dangerous to the body. It's what happens to people with Type I Diabetes that puts them into Diabetic Ketoacidosis and potentially a coma, and even death. It doesn't happen in the NORMAL body.

Please stop with the ketone malarky.

Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs due to a combination of different factors, not simply the presence of ketones in your blood. Mere ketones alone are insufficient to diagnose a state of diabetic ketoacidosis and eating a low carb diet that results in a state of ketosis does not magically lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Please stop with the fear mongering.

Medical facts: http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/complications/ketoacidosis-dka.html

Please read your own link in context so that you'll understand that the mere presence of ketones in the body, without additional factors, does not lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Yes, ketones are present in the body when diabetic ketoacidosis occurs, but so are a lot of other substances. That doesn't mean those other substances by themselves are "NOT normal and ... VERY dangerous to the body." Ketones in and of themselves do not cause diabetic ketoacidosis, and simply because your body is producing ketones does not mean you will end up in a state of diabetic ketoacidosis.

Having some ketones in your blood/urine when doing a low carb diet is completely different from having a high level of ketones in your blood/urine when you're a diabetic whose body is not producing/getting enough insulin. Equating the two is nonsense.

mccindy72

I don't think you understand what ketones are. When your body doesn't have enough insulin to help it break down glocuse into the blood for energy, it breaks fat down into ketones instead. This is NOT normal and is also VERY dangerous to the body. It's what happens to people with Type I Diabetes that puts them into Diabetic Ketoacidosis and potentially a coma, and even death. It doesn't happen in the NORMAL body.

Please stop with the ketone malarky.

Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs due to a combination of different factors, not simply the presence of ketones in your blood. Mere ketones alone are insufficient to diagnose a state of diabetic ketoacidosis and eating a low carb diet that results in a state of ketosis does not magically lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Please stop with the fear mongering.

Medical facts: http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/complications/ketoacidosis-dka.html

While I don't follow low carb and don't promote ketogenic diet, there is a difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis. The concentrations of ketones in ketoacidosis is much higher, and I don't know if there have ever been cases of ketoacidosis in non-diabetics.

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

my point was that there's no medical basis for 'burning ketones' as the poster was claiming. It will only happen if there is not enough insulin present to carry the glucose into the bloodstream. It's not a fuel source or weight loss program.

That I agree with.

:flowerforyou:

sullus

I has a sad...this thread is slowing down...:frown:

Our primal tennis friend unfortunately left. I hope I didn't scare him away with all that talk of peptide bonds and whatnot.

You gotta stop scaring people with science.

But do continue to blind them with it ...

mccindy72

I don't think you understand what ketones are. When your body doesn't have enough insulin to help it break down glocuse into the blood for energy, it breaks fat down into ketones instead. This is NOT normal and is also VERY dangerous to the body. It's what happens to people with Type I Diabetes that puts them into Diabetic Ketoacidosis and potentially a coma, and even death. It doesn't happen in the NORMAL body.

Please stop with the ketone malarky.

Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs due to a combination of different factors, not simply the presence of ketones in your blood. Mere ketones alone are insufficient to diagnose a state of diabetic ketoacidosis and eating a low carb diet that results in a state of ketosis does not magically lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Please stop with the fear mongering.

Medical facts: http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/complications/ketoacidosis-dka.html

Please read your own link in context so that you'll understand that the mere presence of ketones in the body, without additional factors, does not lead to diabetic ketoacidosis. Yes, ketones are present in the body when diabetic ketoacidosis occurs, but so are a lot of other substances. That doesn't mean those other substances by themselves are "NOT normal and ... VERY dangerous to the body." Ketones in and of themselves do not cause diabetic ketoacidosis, and simply because your body is producing ketones does not mean you will end up in a state of diabetic ketoacidosis.

Having some ketones in your blood/urine when doing a low carb diet is completely different from having a high level of ketones in your blood/urine when you're a diabetic whose body is not producing/getting enough insulin. Equating the two is nonsense.

Please see my response to audii regarding this issue.

jonnythan

I has a sad...this thread is slowing down...:frown:

Our primal tennis friend unfortunately left. I hope I didn't scare him away with all that talk of peptide bonds and whatnot.

You gotta stop scaring people with science.

ETA: dang, I was beat to the 80s one-hit-wonder punch.

fast_eddie_72

Most people confuse their own personal results, with absolute proof and they start making fools of themselves. Switch from a very bad diet, to a somewhat bad diet, and you will lose weight. Does not mean you are now a nutrition expert!

I think some people limit their remarks to their personal experience in an effort to be less abrasive. And if a calorie is a calorie, and weight loss is math, then my experience is as valid as anyone else's. So why not speak from what you know. Especially when it is supported by loads of evidence. A calorie is a calorie, but that fact alone isn't enough to build a practical, successful strategy for weight loss and nutrition.

WinoGelato

Have you ever wondered why some of the new people, particularly ones with a lot to lose, struggle so hard to accept such a simple concept?

Maybe it's because many have struggled for years trying to lose weight. Lots of rules, lots of diets, lots of failed attempts. Losing weight has been Hard, and they're not happy.

Then they come here and see all the "happy fit folk" saying its easy. And it's not! In their minds , it is hell. And for us to come in and tell them its not is a huge slap in the face.

This process is personal. And emotional. Some of them need hand holding and a lot of encouragement. Changing your world view is tough. And even though the mechanism of weight loss is simple. Cals in < cals out, the emotional changes are not.

Just a few thoughts. Kinda off topic. I'm sorry.

I do get that, but I also think that they get mad because they want us to tell them they have to give something up, like cake or beef or carbs. Then they can tell themselves they've done that and achieved something, like "eating clean". I kind of compare it to when my sone came out to my husband when he was 16. He was all geared up for this big confrontation and when my husband was calm and said he was okay with it my son blew up and got very angry, simply because he was expecting a big fight. Noobs expect something hard, so they can say, I've made this big change to my eating, not just "I'm still eating the same, only less of it."

I think maybe they get mad because ALL THIS TIME they have struggled, and now they realize that they didn't have to. To all of a sudden accept that losing weight does not have to be torture, that living healthy is not a miserable carrot eating death sentence... that is to acknowledge that years lost being unable to do the things they wanted to do, or feel the ways they wanted to feel... those years didn't need to be lost.

Sometimes it is easier to accept a hard complicated solution, because it doesn't make us feel like we've wasted time.

My mom has struggled for 40 years with her weight. 40 years of crash diets, self loathing, weight watchers, how, u weight loss, 1200 cals a day. When I tell her what I do, and how I eat, she wants to cry. She doesn't want to believe that the last 40 years of struggling were not necessary. She gets mad, and depressed, and reaches for the cake. She's not ready yet.



An analogy... It's like those magic 3D pictures popular in the 90s... I had one in my class when they first came out. And for the life of me I couldn't see see the 3d image. I stared for hours, crosseyed, nose to glass, did all the tricks... andit PISSED ME OFF that all my friends could see it. Once I learned HOW - I could no longer NOT see the image. There was no going back. It was easy.

Some of these people are trying and working and struggling, and getting frustrated at all the people who can "see the image". And they can't. And some of them may feel like the ones who can are calling them complete idiots. Once they figure it out, they'll be off and running. Until then, standing there and yelling at them to LOOK HARDER is not going to help.

So we just keep explaining, gently, how it all works, and hope eventually they will see.

I adore everything you have said here and if I knew how to make one of those little flower things I would totally give you one. I especially adore the frustration with the 3D pictures in college. One time. One time I actually was able to see one of those things. And then poof it was gone again.

You should come over to this thread:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1195099-i-miss-food?page=2

And speak some of your truth!