A Calorie is NOT just a Calorie
Replies
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Seriously? Maybe you are. I really haven't eaten a lot of fast food in my life, independent restaurants for sure but I just don't see the attraction, because taste. Each to their own, no doubt about it.I just don't understand why people would rather have 1,500 of junk that in the end will do more harm than good to your health than eating 1,500 of tasty, healthy food that will make you a healthier human being. Why would I like to eat 1,000 at one sitting on McDonalds instead of 1,000 calories of meat, veggies, nuts, and even dessert during the day?
And forgive my english...
Because a McDonalds Big Mac and fries tastes way better than chicken and broccoli
And since I can fit it in with my goals, I'm going with the Big Mac :drinker: And I'm already a healthy human being, while eating Big Macs and fries and all the other foods I like. My life is pretty darn good :bigsmile:0 -
"I guess 42lbs and 8% BF loss is not sucess...how much do I have to lose to be considered a success?"
First, to be a success, by your own criteria, you would have to meet your goals. From what I remember, you are 8 lbs away from your goal, and thus still short of success, as you yourself define it.
Second, and more important, losing the weight is the easy part. I wouldn't call anyone a success until they had maintained a healthy goal weight for at least two years, and three years would be better. If you still think of yourself as being in a maintenance phase, then you haven't yet succeeded. Success is actually when you reach the point where you have stabilized your weight at a desired level, and you stop thinking of yourself as dieting.
Short of that, I would say that you are on track and doing very well. But, alas, success is still a long way off.
Goals are defined by the individual and can expand well beyond their weight. So they can be successful without hitting their goal weight. Also, who is to say that the OP didn't just do a bulk phase and now has to complete a cut? I can tell you for me, I have zero weight goals. All my goals are performance and body fat related.0 -
Seriously? Maybe you are. I really haven't eaten a lot of fast food in my life, independent restaurants for sure but I just don't see the attraction, because taste. Each to their own, no doubt about it.I just don't understand why people would rather have 1,500 of junk that in the end will do more harm than good to your health than eating 1,500 of tasty, healthy food that will make you a healthier human being. Why would I like to eat 1,000 at one sitting on McDonalds instead of 1,000 calories of meat, veggies, nuts, and even dessert during the day?
And forgive my english...
Because a McDonalds Big Mac and fries tastes way better than chicken and broccoli And since I can fit it in with my goals, I'm going with the Big Mac :drinker: And I'm already a healthy human being, while eating Big Macs and fries and all the other foods I like. My life is pretty darn good :bigsmile:
I really do love Big Macs and their fries
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Oh, and ETA...
I still got twitchy when fast eddie said that a calorie is NOT a calorie.
It's okay. It took you a long time to get indoctrinated in to the cult. It will take a while for you to be deprogrammed. There's still hope for you. I got here just in time.
Lol.
Well you already got "smartass" down pat. :-P
Heh
PS... I had beer and wings for dinner0 -
Wow, didn't realize my rolling post would piss off people. I'll leave the arguing to Jonnythan, DamePiglet, and Stef.
Wait... What did I do NOW? I have an alibi! I was at the gym. And Maurice's buying new jeans. And Subway. I have witnesses!0 -
Wow, didn't realize my rolling post would piss off people. I'll leave the arguing to Jonnythan, DamePiglet, and Stef.
Wait... What did I do NOW? I have an alibi! I was at the gym. And Maurice's buying new jeans. And Subway. I have witnesses!
LOLLLL!!!
I still can't believe this actually rolled...:)0 -
sigh...
I haven't really seen ANYONE seriously advocate ONLY eating big macs. That is not the intention.
It isn't all or nothing.
It's about balance. Moderation. Finding a happy medium.
Eat healthy, YES. DAMMIT, YES.
But the occasional treat is ok too!
That is the point many are making.
It is not going to keep you fat forever if you have a burger from time to time.
It is not going to keep you fat forever if you enjoy half a cup of ice cream at bed time.
PROVIDED your calories in are less than your calories out on average.
The passionate "pro junk food" people (myself included) are saying...
JEEZE... DON'T MAKE IT SO HARD FOR YOURSELF.
Enjoy your life how you want it. If you wanna eat veggies all day, and are getting enough protein. Go for it.
If you wanna eat paleo... go for it.
If you wanna eat primal... go for it.
Just aim to hit your fats / carbs / proteins at a healthy calorie limit, and you should be fine! *insert medical anomaly disclaimer here*
Bravo.
Just say it exactly the way you just did. The problem I see is a LOT of people are NOT saying "But the occasional treat is okay too!" They're just saying "A calorie is a calorie so eat whatever you want". And to prove the point we get the anecdote of one guy in Uraguay who lost weight eating nothing but Cinnabon. And even when they begrudgingly, breaking cult rules, admit it's not a great idea, they say it's because it wouldn't be healthy. Well yeah. But no. It's because you couldn't do it. You'd burn though that sugar in no time and be starving for the rest of the day. Normal people couldn't maintain that very long.
As you said, it isn't all or nothing. In other words, neither extreme is appropriate. And advocating one extreme is no better than advocating the other. So let's stop doing it.
"It's about balance. Moderation. Finding a happy medium."
Well said. And that implies that you need to be at least SOMEWHAT selective in your diet choices. And another way of saying that might be that all foods are not equal. Or yet another way of saying that might be "a calorie is NOT a calorie". And yet, if someone dare suggest such heresy against the cult, the members rally to shun the unbeliever!
It's become some kind of self feeding echo chamber of weirdness on here. I get it. Just take it down a notch. Or 100.
As I have said REPEATEDLY, visit the MFP home page and you will see the words "EAT WHAT YOU LIKE AND LOSE WEIGHT"
Not "eat what you want as long as it's cauliflower"...
The use of the word "cult" to describe people who advocate using this site as it was designed is ridiculous. Utter nonsense.
This site is BUILT AROUND IIFYM!
You certainly can use this tool for other purposes, but don't be shocked when you come across droves of people who use it as we do.
And yeah, I eat something "junky" EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Just bought size 6 jeans.0 -
Guys, again. A calorie IS a calorie. You people claiming the opposite are talking about calorie DENSITY, or calories per measurement of weight. That's a difference. 1 kilo of rocks weighs the same as 1 kilo of feathers. You just need much more of the feathers to get to 1 kilo. That is all.
You CAN eat junk and lose weight if you stay in your calories.
You CAN go a few hours being hungry without stuffing your face if you have a shred of willpower.
If you want to eat a bigmac for breakfast, go ahead, but you have to be aware that that takes away from the calories you can eat for the rest of the day and you may get hungry fast. If you are okay with that, great! If you can't have your tummy rumble for a bit without getting out the tub of ice cream, then you have to reconsider what you're eating.
A lot of people saying a calorie is not a calorie here sound like they're blaming the food instead of themselves for not being able to keep their pie hole shut. I don't like that.
Have some common sense.0 -
I may be an anomaly but I am a healthy middle aged man who has a very "unhealthy" diet. No fruits, no vegetables and a lot of processed food. Despite this my only two health issues are a blown ACL and minor carpal tunnel, neither of which could have been avoided with a "healthy" diet.
I found myself 35 lbs overweight and I knew exactly why. I was drinking two cans of coke a day and eating 1500+ calories a day for lunch. I installed MFP on my phone and cut my calories and am now down 19 lbs through portion/calorie control, not eating healthier calories.
In my experience a calorie is just a calorie. When I have more I gain weight, when I have less I lose weight.0 -
I may be an anomaly but I am a healthy middle aged man who has a very "unhealthy" diet. No fruits, no vegetables and a lot of processed food. Despite this my only two health issues are a blown ACL and minor carpal tunnel, neither of which could have been avoided with a "healthy" diet.
I found myself 35 lbs overweight and I knew exactly why. I was drinking two cans of coke a day and eating 1500+ calories a day for lunch. I installed MFP on my phone and cut my calories and am now down 19 lbs through portion/calorie control, not eating healthier calories.
In my experience a calorie is just a calorie. When I have more I gain weight, when I have less I lose weight.
Oh hai there!:flowerforyou:
****
(Btw... 7 cheeseburgers isn't a food... It's 7 instances of a food. And yeah, I put this back in EVERYONE's 'My Topics'.)0 -
Guys, again. A calorie IS a calorie. You people claiming the opposite are talking about calorie DENSITY, or calories per measurement of weight. That's a difference. 1 kilo of rocks weighs the same as 1 kilo of feathers. You just need much more of the feathers to get to 1 kilo. That is all.
You CAN eat junk and lose weight if you stay in your calories.
You CAN go a few hours being hungry without stuffing your face if you have a shred of willpower.
If you want to eat a bigmac for breakfast, go ahead, but you have to be aware that that takes away from the calories you can eat for the rest of the day and you may get hungry fast. If you are okay with that, great! If you can't have your tummy rumble for a bit without getting out the tub of ice cream, then you have to reconsider what you're eating.
A lot of people saying a calorie is not a calorie here sound like they're blaming the food instead of themselves for not being able to keep their pie hole shut. I don't like that.
Have some common sense.
Who is claiming that a calorie is not a calorie?
I swear this thread is just getting more confusing by the minute.0 -
Yes...loose weight on McDonalds, Starbucks, whatever...but why the hell are you loosing weight in the first place? So you can look great in your Speedos this summer? Or are you actually trying to invest in your health?
Eat crap and you will reap the 'rewards' years from now...Lets see...how does diabetes, high cholesterol, fatty liver, organ inflammation, poor immunity and medication to help you cope sound?
Then you can go to the doctor every week when your 50 and drain out the countries health care and 'eat-up' everyone's tax paying dollars too...or if you live in the states, you can spend all your retirement dollars on pills and visits to the ER or doctor instead of enjoying your 'golden years'.
Does anyone agree with the above??0 -
Just say it exactly the way you just did. The problem I see is a LOT of people are NOT saying "But the occasional treat is okay too!" They're just saying "A calorie is a calorie so eat whatever you want".
I don't think anyone is saying that... But I could be wrong.
A calorie is a calorie doesn't mean "eat all the things" Either does IIFYM. I dunno why people always project crazy extremes in this argument.
The people saying a "calorie is a calorie" are almost always preaching moderation as well.
EDIT: Shakes fist in general direction of DamePiglet for bumping this up "My Topics"0 -
Yes...loose weight on McDonalds, Starbucks, whatever...but why the hell are you loosing weight in the first place? So you can look great in your Speedos this summer? Or are you actually trying to invest in your health?
Eat crap and you will reap the 'rewards' years from now...Lets see...how does diabetes, high cholesterol, fatty liver, organ inflammation, poor immunity and medication to help you cope sound?
Then you can go to the doctor every week when your 50 and drain out the countries health care and 'eat-up' everyone's tax paying dollars too...or if you live in the states, you can spend all your retirement dollars on pills and visits to the ER or doctor instead of enjoying your 'golden years'.
Does anyone agree with the above??
No because it is fear mongering.0 -
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^^A good soundbite at the end....
"eating ‘good’ foods will allow you to keep total calories higher but eating the occasional ‘bad’ food won’t wreck your diet as long as it controlled within the context of total caloric intake."
This kind of sums it up IMO.
Alan Aragon had a great one line synopsis about the calorie is a calorie issue on his Facebook feed but I can't find it.0 -
"I guess 42lbs and 8% BF loss is not sucess...how much do I have to lose to be considered a success?"
First, to be a success, by your own criteria, you would have to meet your goals. From what I remember, you are 8 lbs away from your goal, and thus still short of success, as you yourself define it.
Second, and more important, losing the weight is the easy part. I wouldn't call anyone a success until they had maintained a healthy goal weight for at least two years, and three years would be better. If you still think of yourself as being in a maintenance phase, then you haven't yet succeeded. Success is actually when you reach the point where you have stabilized your weight at a desired level, and you stop thinking of yourself as dieting.
Short of that, I would say that you are on track and doing very well. But, alas, success is still a long way off.
Actually my first GW was 165..hit it..
I am a success because I am here doing what I need to do to hit my goals...I could give a flying fart about my weight...it's about measurments from a tape and BF...I calculate I will be at maintenance for now as of June 15th (Yah just in time for pool side beer) and my bikini...
And I am not dieting...that implies I will stop doing what I am doing now when I hit maintenance...I will be here to count calories even at maintenance, I will hit my macros while in maintenance and still lift 3x a week...
My success is not way off I am living my success now..in the present because I am here and doing what I need to do to get where I want to be...that is success...as I will never be perfect I will always be a work in progress...and willing to accept that...
ETA: this got bumped in my list...blame the guy above me...0 -
^^A good soundbite at the end....
"eating ‘good’ foods will allow you to keep total calories higher but eating the occasional ‘bad’ food won’t wreck your diet as long as it controlled within the context of total caloric intake."
This kind of sums it up IMO.
Alan Aragon had a great one line synopsis about the calorie is a calorie issue on his Facebook feed but I can't find it.
I know what you're talking about!
His work with Dr Brad Shoenfeld is amazing BTW.0 -
I think it's a cult.
Have you met the Church of Heavy Lifting yet? That's always fun...
On a serious note I do think that people are genuinely trying to help. However they seem to forget, do not care or do not even know perhaps that knowing something intellectually does not mean the person they are giving the advice to has the skills or psychological profile to even implement the idea.
I get the impression that some people think if they give a dieter valid but generic information such as a "calorie is a calorie" or balance your macros that this will somehow help that person magically to overcome their issues with food or over eating. Sometimes this does work. In many instances it does not. And the instances where it does not is where these forums are severely lacking in quality advice because the only solution appears to be "use willpower" (when in fact having a dietary set up where the need for willpower is reduced to the lowest level possible is far, far better. How that set up is achieved is as much art as science).0 -
^^ you make some valid points...I hate the "use willpower" advice. There is some interesting research on willpower out there, that I think sometimes gets overlooked here - which is odd since research backed evidence seems to be supported here (thankfully).
But a "calorie is a calorie" as generic as it is, actually addresses that willpower issue IMO.
It lets people know they don't have to waste willpower cutting out wide swaths of food and/or demonizing entire macros. If the goal is to reduce willpower to the lowest level (i tend to agree) then I see "Calories in/Calories Out" as an important part of that equation.I know what you're talking about!
His work with Dr Brad Shoenfeld is amazing BTW.
Agreed! In fact, so much so I dropped down some cash to join their Cracking the Muscle Code program. After one week, Maybe I bit off more than I can chew - but I needed to shake things up a bit.0 -
*double post*0
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congrats to me for starting the most controversial thread of all time apparently....
the funniest part is, I don't believe the article 100% but I thought it was very interesting and helpful talking about the way the body processes food.
and everyone just started arguing with an article that can't argue back0 -
congrats to me for starting the most controversial thread of all time apparently....
the funniest part is, I don't believe the article 100% but I thought it was very interesting and helpful talking about the way the body processes food.
and everyone just started arguing with an article that can't argue back
Oh, you're new around here, huh? :laugh:
It's very cool that you wanted to contribute, btw. It just happens to be a subject that gets people's dander up.0 -
"I guess 42lbs and 8% BF loss is not sucess...how much do I have to lose to be considered a success?"
First, to be a success, by your own criteria, you would have to meet your goals. From what I remember, you are 8 lbs away from your goal, and thus still short of success, as you yourself define it.
Second, and more important, losing the weight is the easy part. I wouldn't call anyone a success until they had maintained a healthy goal weight for at least two years, and three years would be better. If you still think of yourself as being in a maintenance phase, then you haven't yet succeeded. Success is actually when you reach the point where you have stabilized your weight at a desired level, and you stop thinking of yourself as dieting.
Short of that, I would say that you are on track and doing very well. But, alas, success is still a long way off.
Don't quit your day job.0 -
But a "calorie is a calorie" as generic as it is, actually addresses that willpower issue IMO.
It lets people know they don't have to waste willpower cutting out wide swaths of food and/or demonizing entire macros. If the goal is to reduce willpower to the lowest level (i tend to agree) then I see "Calories in/Calories Out" as an important part of that equation.
For sure.
We know that as a dieting model anything which puts high levels of restriction against willpower generally tends to fail. Our stores of willpower are finite and if it constantly has to fight the tension created by deprivation it will buckle most times. People then feel they have failed and go on to hoover up everything palatable food item in a ten mile radius. That is why the idea of CICO really helps as it reduces feelings of deprivation as you understand that you can incorporate pretty much anything and still succeed.
The problem comes when you have foods which people have tremendously difficult regulating their intake of properly. Knowing intellectually that CICO will work ("twinkie diet yo!") doesn't give you the skills, particularly psychological, to do so, especially when eating them has become autonomous. Moderation may not even be the best solution in the short term. Giving some people alternative strategies to deal with their "kryptonite"may be necessary.
I think the detailed discussions of physiology are good but not when it crowds out discussions about dieting psychology. Addressing both are important.0 -
congrats to me for starting the most controversial thread of all time apparently....
the funniest part is, I don't believe the article 100% but I thought it was very interesting and helpful talking about the way the body processes food.
and everyone just started arguing with an article that can't argue back
While I will give you credit for a topic that rolled, there are plenty of others worst than this... start a thread saying you are addicted to sugar and all hell breaks loose.
I do hope you have learned from this thread though. While there was a lot of fighting/bickering, there has been some solid information. A calories is just a unit of measure and calories in vs out is weight loss, but macro and micro management is for satiety, energy, fitness goals, etc... As I stated, my priorities are to hit my protein goals daily, give enough calories to push hard during my workout (around 2400) and if I have left over, I get a Klondike bar. I keep my sodium between 3000 and 4000mg. Even through all of this, my body fat % has decrease, my weight has lowered, I have become stronger and fast, and my blood pressure is 110/70, resting hr has dropped form 78 down to 70 and all my cholesterol numbers have improved. Do I eat dirty, yea, 20% of the time, but I also eat fruits, veggies and meats daily.0 -
congrats to me for starting the most controversial thread of all time apparently....
the funniest part is, I don't believe the article 100% but I thought it was very interesting and helpful talking about the way the body processes food.
and everyone just started arguing with an article that can't argue back
Oh, you're new around here, huh? :laugh:
It's very cool that you wanted to contribute, btw. It just happens to be a subject that gets people's dander up.
what I have learned from this website is most people cannot have a logical debate without putting other people down. sad really. that should definitely be a rule on mfp to ban people who are rude to others.0 -
This is a very generic and incorrect sentence. I would question your ability to show me a group of fit people that have these issues. I would think obesity and genetics play a much larger role in these medical conditions compared to the types of food. A perfect indication for high cholesterol is me. While my LDL levels are acceptable and have improved, they are at a higher level that many people. A few years ago, it was discovered that both my mom and dad have higher LDL's. My mom is skinny (5'4, 120 lbs) and my dad is overeight. I am fairly lean and fit and still have similar LDL. Multiple doctors I have dealt with agree that genetics is the reason for that LDL's being high.Eat crap and you will reap the 'rewards' years from now...Lets see...how does diabetes, high cholesterol, fatty liver, organ inflammation, poor immunity and medication to help you cope sound?0 -
But a "calorie is a calorie" as generic as it is, actually addresses that willpower issue IMO.
It lets people know they don't have to waste willpower cutting out wide swaths of food and/or demonizing entire macros. If the goal is to reduce willpower to the lowest level (i tend to agree) then I see "Calories in/Calories Out" as an important part of that equation.
For sure.
We know that as a dieting model anything which puts high levels of restriction against willpower generally tends to fail. Our stores of willpower are finite and if it constantly has to fight the tension created by deprivation it will buckle most times. People then feel they have failed and go on to hoover up everything palatable food item in a ten mile radius. That is why the idea of CICO really helps as it reduces feelings of deprivation as you understand that you can incorporate pretty much anything and still succeed.
The problem comes when you have foods which people have tremendously difficult regulating their intake of properly. Knowing intellectually that CICO will work ("twinkie diet yo!") doesn't give you the skills, particularly psychological, to do so, especially when eating them has become autonomous. Moderation may not even be the best solution in the short term. Giving some people alternative strategies to deal with their "kryptonite"may be necessary.
I think the detailed discussions of physiology are good but not when it crowds out discussions about dieting psychology. Addressing both are important.
Great post.0 -
congrats to me for starting the most controversial thread of all time apparently....
the funniest part is, I don't believe the article 100% but I thought it was very interesting and helpful talking about the way the body processes food.
and everyone just started arguing with an article that can't argue back
Oh, you're new around here, huh? :laugh:
It's very cool that you wanted to contribute, btw. It just happens to be a subject that gets people's dander up.
what I have learned from this website is most people cannot have a logical debate without putting other people down. sad really. that should definitely be a rule on mfp to ban people who are rude to others.
MFP does have a rule about attacking people. If people feel they have been attacked or they feel someone else has been attacked they can use the report feature for the below rule. There has been a few people deleted in this thread because of that. But to keep an unbias, I do not mod threads I am in. Also understand there that disagreement =/= attack.
I won't deny there has been borderline attacks or blatant attacks, which I would hope people would report so another mod can evaluate the situation.
1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
b) If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, you will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself or a friend is not an excuse! Do not take matters into your own hands – instead, use the Report Post link to report an attack and we will be happy to handle the situation for you.0
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