Ketosis/High Fat Diet

parkscs

Can't say I've ever avoided a social event due to my macros and I know dozens of people who count their calories while restricting their carbohydrates. To that end, many of the people I know following LC diets are much more strict when it comes to their macros than the standard IIFYM'er, because diets like TKD/CKD involve specific macros and specific timing of said macros. In any event, you don't have to go far (especially on MFP) to find people that run a relatively low carb macro and track calories as well - it sort of begs the question why they'd be using MFP if they're only tracking carbs and completely ignoring calories/protein/etc.

danimalkeys

I personally don't know a single low carber or keto that measures their calories. That's including some trainers I know who are not looking very sporty at all. I know one trainer that has started fitting since low carbing. My experience. My opinion.

I'm so glad I don't have to 'survive Christmas' and avoid social events any more!

We don't know each other personally, but I count calories along with my carbs. Many of us do. It's still about eating at a deficit.

I didn't "survive" the holidays, and I don't avoid social events. There is always something to eat that is friendly to my eating preferences.

tech_kitten

I do low carb and count my calories. i also have a couple of splurge days per month, usually reserved for parties or birthdays, etc, where I eat whatever I want and then go back to doing my low carb thing. It has worked for me, but as with anything, some people just "get along" better with a certain way of eating than others. That's why there's so many things out there. Less calories + moving around more = weight loss + fitness. It doesn't matter which method you choose as long as the journey and outcome are worth it.

gmstarr1

I still count calories. I started out on Myfitnesspal counting calories. And yes, I was losing weight doing that. A little over a month ago I experimented with low carb for a week (I was in a weight loss competition, gained a lot of water weight right before weigh in due to excess salt, and needed to lose it fast) and decided to keep the low carb.

I discovered that I don't stay as hungry, I don't crave sugar/carbs, and I generally feel better when eating low carb. Not sure if I've ever got to the keto stage, but I'm happy with what I have right now. Still losing weight, not losing it any faster with the low carb diet than I did with the low calorie, but I feel better. I had a couple of cheats over the last month, and I can tell the difference.

Will I keep it off? Don't know. But over the last 10 years, the low calorie diets haven't worked for me either as a long term solution. I lose some, and then I gain it back. So what do I have to lose by trying low carb?

danimalkeys

I still count calories. I started out on Myfitnesspal counting calories. And yes, I was losing weight doing that. A little over a month ago I experimented with low carb for a week (I was in a weight loss competition, gained a lot of water weight right before weigh in due to excess salt, and needed to lose it fast) and decided to keep the low carb.

I discovered that I don't stay as hungry, I don't crave sugar/carbs, and I generally feel better when eating low carb. Not sure if I've ever got to the keto stage, but I'm happy with what I have right now. Still losing weight, not losing it any faster with the low carb diet than I did with the low calorie, but I feel better. I had a couple of cheats over the last month, and I can tell the difference.

Will I keep it off? Don't know. But over the last 10 years, the low calorie diets haven't worked for me either as a long term solution. I lose some, and then I gain it back. So what do I have to lose by trying low carb?

The naysayers always point out that low carbers will gain all their weight back when they stop. What they fail to mention is that 90% of everyone who diets, no matter what method they use, gain the weight back as well. It's simple- it's not a temporary thing, it's a lifestyle change. Those that embrace that, no matter what their preferred method of losing weight is, will succeed. If you go back to eating in excess, of course you'll gain the weight back. If you have a plan in place to eat at maintenance calories when you hit your goal weight, continue to count your calories and watch your macros, you won't gain the weight back.

parkscs

You'll gain some water weight once you carb up but educated folks know that gaining water weight is not a big deal. Whether you gain any fat after you reintroduce carbs depends entirely on how many calories you eat.

ubermofish

I'm down over 50lbs so far using keto, and I started intermittent fasting about 2 months ago. I have also been doing the Insanity workout program (final week!). Still about 50-60lbs from my GW, but this diet works better for me than anything else. I'm sated through the day, I get to satisfy my meat tooth, and I get to eat one big fat meal a day (which is awesome). My cholesterol, triglycerides, and BP are all down, but weren't in the bad range to begin with. All I can say to people that are considering it, give it a try for a few weeks, see if you like it and if it works for you.

On a side note, I would highly recommend the Insanity workout to anyone that is considering it.

ALNoog

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Springfield1970

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

ALNoog

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

For my medical condition I have to do low carb.... But for the one I commented on that tried it and stopped because it caused bad breath I would suggest something else but I figured I do low carb and don't have bad breath so maybe it was a hygiene issue.

lindsey1979

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

Do you know that more people tend to not stick with low carb as opposed to any other diet/lifestyle change? I've just never seen anything that showed people were less likely to stick with it in relation to any other diet/lifestyle choice. If you know of any, I'd love to check it out.

suziecue66

Congratulations on your loss to date - looking good. So you have 10 more pounds to go.
With your usual calorie amount of 1200/1400 your grams of carbs are already in the low range?

Just try a ketosis diet and see how it goes for you.
Maybe adding some slow cardio as well.

Springfield1970

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

For my medical condition I have to do low carb.... But for the one I commented on that tried it and stopped because it caused bad breath I would suggest something else but I figured I do low carb and don't have bad breath so maybe it was a hygiene issue.

Well then you're a rare low carber then. I'm only echoing what I've read over and over in forums I used to belong to when I low carbed, it's quite common, and keto breath is sooooo weird.

I'm sorry you have a medical condition that prevents you eating carbs. That's not easy to live with. But you've done well so far and if it works for you over a lifetime then go for it. I did about 7 years of it all and all. I could never go back because I can't adhere to it for more than a year or so before the cravings get out of hand.

Dragonwolf

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

Do you know that more people tend to not stick with low carb as opposed to any other diet/lifestyle change? I've just never seen anything that showed people were less likely to stick with it in relation to any other diet/lifestyle choice. If you know of any, I'd love to check it out.

The research suggests that low-carb attrition/compliance rates are comparable to other diets - http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

Note specifically the section entitled "How Many People Made It To The End?" with the following averages for the 19 of the 23 studies referenced that reported compliance:

Average for the low-carb groups: 79,51%
Average for the low-fat groups: 77,72%

Even if you want to say that 2% difference is statistically insignificant, that still means that low carb diets have, on average, the same compliance rates as other diets.

Even the American Heart Association acknowledges that attrition rates of low carb diets are comparable to that of other diets:

In trials that investigated the effectiveness of low-carbohydrate diets in inducing weight loss, the attrition rates ranged between 24% and 39%. In most of these trials, comparable attrition rates were observed in subjects assigned to a low-fat diet.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/114/9/961.full

And to the comment nested in the quotes above, regarding "eat how you're going to eat the rest of your life" -- not everyone who follows a low-carb/high-fat diet are doing it with the intention of only being on it for as long as it takes to lose the weight. Many do it for other health reasons, including realizing that the way they were eating before was working against them (such as keeping their insulin levels elevated beyond the point that their body could tolerate) and even making them sick. Low-carb/high-fat is the way they intend to eat the rest of their lives.

suziecue66

When they lose weight some of those low carbers may be able to increase their carbs, improve their insulin sensitivity. May not need to be a low carber for life.

ALNoog

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

For my medical condition I have to do low carb.... But for the one I commented on that tried it and stopped because it caused bad breath I would suggest something else but I figured I do low carb and don't have bad breath so maybe it was a hygiene issue.

Well then you're a rare low carber then. I'm only echoing what I've read over and over in forums I used to belong to when I low carbed, it's quite common, and keto breath is sooooo weird.

I'm sorry you have a medical condition that prevents you eating carbs. That's not easy to live with. But you've done well so far and if it works for you over a lifetime then go for it. I did about 7 years of it all and all. I could never go back because I can't adhere to it for more than a year or so before the cravings get out of hand.

Thank you. Yes so far is is helping my symptoms tremendously. I find it easy to stick with... Thank goodness I've always been more of a carnivore.

And it DOES cause a change in the way your breath smells.. It smells almost sweet but not terrible bad...

FlaxMilk

I wonder why vegans and vegetarians don't attract this much vehemence on MFP, restrictive as they are with their choices.

Or the entire societies that, by virtue of history and food availability, don't have access to loads of food groups.

You can cut out meat and it's perfectly socially acceptable but you cut out bread and sugar and all hell breaks lose..

Vegan and vegetarian threads do attract vehemence; many just choose to post in the groups to avoid it. Depending on where you live, it may be more socially acceptable, but that can be true of any way of eating. "Socially accepted" is the way I would view veganism at all.

Keto and paleo have their detractors like anyone else. You just notice it more when it bugs you.

ALNoog

I wonder why vegans and vegetarians don't attract this much vehemence on MFP, restrictive as they are with their choices.

Or the entire societies that, by virtue of history and food availability, don't have access to loads of food groups.

You can cut out meat and it's perfectly socially acceptable but you cut out bread and sugar and all hell breaks lose..

Vegan and vegetarian threads do attract vehemence; many just choose to post in the groups to avoid it. Depending on where you live, it may be more socially acceptable, but that can be true of any way of eating. "Socially accepted" is the way I would view veganism at all.

Keto and paleo have their detractors like anyone else. You just notice it more when it bugs you.

I'm not sure what that means at all... I think there are some words missing there so I'm not sure what to take from that.

But both of my cousins "quit meat" this month just because it makes them feel icky.... And no one is trying to shove a steak in their face

But I am insulin resistant so I quit sugar and everyone is trying to shove cakes and candies in my face.....and mine is medically necessary and not because I don't feel like eating it....

FlaxMilk

I'm not sure what that means at all... I think there are some words missing there so I'm not sure what to take from that.

But both of my cousins "quit meat" this month just because it makes them feel icky.... And no one is trying to shove a steak in their face

But I am insulin resistant so I quit sugar and everyone is trying to shove cakes and candies in my face.....and mine is medically necessary and not because I don't feel like eating it....

I will write it more simply this time.

Vegans and vegetarians also get criticism.

You notice Keto criticism because it's personally relevant to you.

It's human nature.

If you have not lived as a vegetarian, how would you know how they are treated?

You are wrong.

Except for the part about a word missing. "Socially acceptable" is *not* the term I would use to describe being vegetarian.

ALNoog

Well if that's what you were trying to say... Like I said a few words were missing from your original post because thats not what you said at all...

But yes please keep telling me how I'm wrong for what I've viewed first hand because that is my favorite... Except I won't know you are because I am blocking you. Continue spreading your sunshine somewhere else other than to me.

FlaxMilk

Well if that's what you were trying to say... Like I said a few words were missing from your original post because thats not what you said at all...

But yes please keep telling me how I'm wrong for what I've viewed first hand because that is my favorite... Except I won't know you are because I am blocking you. Continue spreading your sunshine somewhere else other than to me.

I'm sure you aren't wrong that people are rude to you. I'm sure from my own first hand experiences that you are wrong that people aren't rude to vegetarians.

It will be hard to carry on without your sunshine. I will persevere.

It's better that you block me if a missing word can get rid of the meaning of something for you. I promise it will happen again.

Edit: Or an extra word. I'm knocking the typing out of the park tonight. :laugh:

albertabeefy

When they lose weight some of those low carbers may be able to increase their carbs, improve their insulin sensitivity. May not need to be a low carber for life.

Improve their insulin sensitivity?

Please explain how that works.

The primary cause of insulin-resistance in obese people with Type II diabetes or Metabolic syndrome is visceral bodyfat. It's been scientifically documented for decades now that decrease in visceral bodyfat - the fat in/around the internal organs - improves insulin-sensitivity, whereas decreases in subcutaneous bodyfat do not show the same significant trend.

Many people that lose weight to healthy levels are able to improve insulin-sensitivity to a point where they have excellent glycemic control without insulin.

Unfortunately those that have lost function with pancreatic beta-cells don't regain the same sensitivity, and some need to stay low-carb (even if they've had successful weight loss and continue with regular exercise).

That's my situation - my pancreas secretes virtually no insulin. My insulin-sensitivity, however, is excellent - I just don't produce it.

Luckily people like me are the exception and the vast majority of people that: 1) catch it in time; 2) reach a healthy weight, and; 3) continue to exercise regularly can completely reverse their symptoms - mostly because of the improvement in insulin-sensitivity.

FYI -It's a complete fallacy that type II diabetes is always degenerative. It doesn't have to be. It's only degenerative if you fail to control it. Unfortunately 90% of diabetics fail - and the reason they fail is they follow a diet that's simply too high in carbohydrate. The dietary advice given by most dieticians, the ADA/CDA (American and Canadian Diabetes Associations) is simply bad advice (it's more politically-motivated than health-motivated), and will keep most diabetics on medications for the rest of their lives.

The best advice anyone with diabetes, pre-diabetes and/or metabolic syndrome can get is to educate themselves over at BloodSugar101 - http://www.bloodsugar101.com

albertabeefy

Your post wasn't clear "increasing carbs, increasing insulin sensitivity"

I think what susie is saying is that AFTER the loss of the visceral fat they may be able to increase carbohydrate intake BECAUSE of increased insulin sensitivity (as a result of the visceral body fat loss).

At least I hope so, because increasing carbohydrate doesn't increase insulin sensitivity

In my case, I spent almost a full year under 30g of carbohydrate. Now I eat anywhere from 30 to 120 depending on the day, and have absolutely excellent insulin-sensitivity and glycemic control.

suziecue66

Your post wasn't clear "increasing carbs, increasing insulin sensitivity"

I think what susie is saying is that AFTER the loss of the visceral fat they may be able to increase carbohydrate intake BECAUSE of increased insulin sensitivity (as a result of the visceral body fat loss).

At least I hope so, because increasing carbohydrate doesn't increase insulin sensitivity

In my case, I spent almost a full year under 30g of carbohydrate. Now I eat anywhere from 30 to 120 depending on the day, and have absolutely excellent insulin-sensitivity and glycemic control.

that's what I meant

elivanderslice171

Ketosis is the lack of glucose. I eat a lot of protein and it has no bearing on my ketosis levels.

I will warn folks that the first month eating this way, that you DO count calories because you can very easily gain a lot of weight until your body gets adapted. You can also lose muscle while gaining weight in the beginning because protein stores can be converted to glucose. After about a month, your body will get more efficient at burning fat. I incorporate two cheat meals, Friday and Saturday dinner, usually Pizza or Mexican Food, or burgers and fries - whatever I want to eat.

Why not eat healthy for life? Keto is the way to do that and it's a fantastic way of livin!

albertabeefy

... You can also lose muscle while gaining weight in the beginning because protein stores can be converted to glucose.

Unless you're starving yourself this should never happen. Ketosis in general is muscle-sparing. As is dietary protein.

Carnivor0us

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

For my medical condition I have to do low carb.... But for the one I commented on that tried it and stopped because it caused bad breath I would suggest something else but I figured I do low carb and don't have bad breath so maybe it was a hygiene issue.

Well then you're a rare low carber then. I'm only echoing what I've read over and over in forums I used to belong to when I low carbed, it's quite common, and keto breath is sooooo weird.

I'm sorry you have a medical condition that prevents you eating carbs. That's not easy to live with. But you've done well so far and if it works for you over a lifetime then go for it. I did about 7 years of it all and all. I could never go back because I can't adhere to it for more than a year or so before the cravings get out of hand.

Something like 10% of women in the US have a condition that would benefit from low carb, that's hardly rare. Uncommon, not rare. It's perfectly easy to live with low carb if you can eat ribeyes. It makes no sense when people say that it's hard because it's not unless you're a marathon runner.

albertabeefy

Something like 10% of women in the US have a condition that would benefit from low carb, that's hardly rare. Uncommon, not rare. It's perfectly easy to live with low carb if you can eat ribeyes. It makes no sense when people say that it's hard because it's not unless you're a marathon runner.

Actually, unless at a world-class / elite level, you can eat low-carb and marathon quite easily - without having to suck back sugary drinks, gels, bars, etc. while you do it.

That's the beauty of keto-adaptation.

For the world-class athlete it's a different situation - they're pushing a performance threshold that requires an almost anaerobic effort - as such it's unlikely they can generate enough ATP for cellular respiration while keto-adapted and low-carb.

For the 99.999% of the rest of us, marathons on low-carb are quite do-able.