Paleo?

WendyTerry420

We don't have the knowledge to control differential gene expression (turning genes on and off) for desired physical results. It's an extremely complex process and our knowledge is in its infancy.

In for sci fi!


That would be so cool if we could just eat (or not eat) certain foods to turn gene expression on and off like a light switch.

And then, because genes code for proteins and proteins have multiple functions, we'd end up with a thigh gap AND a palsy.

:laugh:

WendyTerry420

So as a metter of interest, if it's all about real food, why is it that imaginary food is so bad?

My dolls only ate imaginary food. Mom got mad when I tried to feed them real food.

tennisdude2004

The Mac Daddy Sisson also explains that when you have a high carb "cheat" day every so often it resets certain hormone levels and is actually good for you, resets hormone levels that burn fat so you get leaner.

ETA: The hormone reset research appears extensively in this book: The Man 2.0: Engineering the Alpha.

The Mac Daddy Sisson... I like that... I'm going to roll with it...

Doesn't "Mac Daddy Sisson" also sell a processed protein supplement... to go along with his anti-processed food campaign?

Seems like he's mostly just looking to make money off of a fad.

The Mac Daddy sure does sell protein and a few supplements. I've never used it, but for all the free help along the way I've gleamed from his articles, website, blog and books I borrowed from the library, I sure do hope someone buys the supplements and that he earns a buck for his efforts.

Unlike a lot of programs, there is no monthly fee or anything like that related to using the site, forums, recipes, or books (some books are on the website free as a PDF).

Because I'd been using the program for years with no monetary compensation, I didn't mind at all making my only purchase from the site, a T-shirt for my boyfriend on Valentines day that says "Get Primal".

ETA: I get my protein from a shopper's club Sam's in bulk because it's cheap, but if I could afford it, I would certainly love to try his Primal stuff.

You have a very bastardized definition of paleo and primal. Why are you supplementing at all? Shouldn't the well-defined list of foods provide everything you need without resorting to highly processed products like a protein powder? Kind of seems to completely go against the underlying principles of the diet.

It does. You are not required to buy supplements to do the diet. In fact in the blogs and podcasts it's not mentioned (except for number 7 podcast) which is talking about supplements as a whole.

He owns a supplement business and sells them - he doesn't push his supplements on people that follow his diet plan - what's the problem.

As far a bastardised version of primal - I'm not sure I follow! Do you know much about the primal blueprint? I would agree that the primal blueprint is a bastardised version of the strict paleo diet - but no one is saying otherwise.

The problem is that it's hypocritical. Don't eat processed foods and additive sugars... but you can eat it if it's in my product.

And I've read extensively about both.

Eating McDonald's and using protein powder is not PALEO or PRIMAL on any level. Also, why even track what you eat? That also goes against paleo and primal ideology.

First off - pb diet doesn't say you have to eat protein shakes - it advocates getting you protein mainly firm meat (and the red stuff at that).

In regards to tracing food - there is nothing in the PB diet to say you cannot. You don't necessarily have to count calories, but it does give a good guidance on macro nutrient split (so keeping a track of that how ever loosely is worth while).

Acg67

Good question ACG67.

I signifigantly lowered my protein intake becase of the insulin response to high amounts of protein. The recomendation that I had seen was for .8 to 1 gram per pound of lean body weight so I started there. This amount of protein is considered sufficient for your protein needs without triggering an insulin response. I didn't tinker with it very much as I was getting the results that I wanted. The 1 gram per/lb of LBW seems to be working for me right now. I've considered lowering it but have honestly been lazy around tinkering with my diet. I guess I'm taking a break from experimentation for a while.

Incorrect, perhaps insulin isn't the devil like Taubes hypothesized?

Harrisonsauntie2005

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe is thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

And how was this guys thought process one dimensiona?
What he is saying is logical
The apple guy says eat like this because sugars are poison... he then adds the "poisons" to his products and sells them.
Double standard.

Acg67

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe his thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

Even if he meant only highly processed foods are poisons and minimally processed stuff was ok, well protein powder is highly processed. It's almost like he makes stuff up as he goes. ::Looks back on what he said about insulin his book::: LOL

tennisdude2004

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe is thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

And how was this guys thought process one dimensiona?
What he is saying is logical
The apple guy says eat like this because sugars are poison... he then adds the "poisons" to his products and sells them.
Double standard.

Maybe if you read pb diet for yourself as opposed to getting your information from Dave at the gym you might understand a bit better and maybe lose less sleep over it!

tennisdude2004

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe his thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

Even if he meant only highly processed foods are poisons and minimally processed stuff was ok, well protein powder is highly processed. It's almost like he makes stuff up as he goes. ::Looks back on what he said about insulin his book::: LOL

PB recommends getting our protein from animals - the whey *kitten* is for you guys. Personally I've never eaten a protein shake in my life, so I'm not too sure what the fuss is over them.

a_stronger_me13

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe is thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

And how was this guys thought process one dimensiona?
What he is saying is logical
The apple guy says eat like this because sugars are poison... he then adds the "poisons" to his products and sells them.
Double standard.

Maybe if you read pb diet for yourself as opposed to getting your information from Dave at the gym you might understand a bit better and maybe lose less sleep over it!

Harrisonsauntie2005

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe is thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

And how was this guys thought process one dimensiona?
What he is saying is logical
The apple guy says eat like this because sugars are poison... he then adds the "poisons" to his products and sells them.
Double standard.

Maybe if you read pb diet for yourself as opposed to getting your information from Dave at the gym you might understand a bit better and maybe lose less sleep over it!

lmao - I have. I have his book along with it starts with food and good calories bad calories, read every article/blog and still come up with the same opinion.

See you can't even admit that its true, he says one thing and then doesn't act accordingly. Your only argument back is "go and read about the diet and don't listen to Dave at the gym"... yeah ok mate.

tennisdude2004

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe his thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

Even if he meant only highly processed foods are poisons and minimally processed stuff was ok, well protein powder is highly processed. It's almost like he makes stuff up as he goes. ::Looks back on what he said about insulin his book::: LOL

Unlike some The Mac Daddy does change his opinions on things when new convincing research, studies, arguments or break through a come to light.

Your best best if you want to discredit him accurately is to check his blogs.

wshep5267

Good question ACG67.

I signifigantly lowered my protein intake becase of the insulin response to high amounts of protein. The recomendation that I had seen was for .8 to 1 gram per pound of lean body weight so I started there. This amount of protein is considered sufficient for your protein needs without triggering an insulin response. I didn't tinker with it very much as I was getting the results that I wanted. The 1 gram per/lb of LBW seems to be working for me right now. I've considered lowering it but have honestly been lazy around tinkering with my diet. I guess I'm taking a break from experimentation for a while.

Incorrect, perhaps insulin isn't the devil like Taubes hypothesized?

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd be interested in learning more about protein and insulin response. Do you have any recomendations on source material?

Thanks

tennisdude2004

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe is thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

And how was this guys thought process one dimensiona?
What he is saying is logical
The apple guy says eat like this because sugars are poison... he then adds the "poisons" to his products and sells them.
Double standard.

Maybe if you read pb diet for yourself as opposed to getting your information from Dave at the gym you might understand a bit better and maybe lose less sleep over it!

lmao - I have. I have his book along with it starts with food and good calories bad calories, read every article/blog and still come up with the same opinion.

See you can't even admit that its true, he says one thing and then doesn't act accordingly. Your only argument back is "go and read about the diet and don't listen to Dave at the gym"... yeah ok mate.

Well if you know all about pb the you will know that it doesn't say you have to cut all sugar form your diet, just educates on the different effects from the different structure of sugar.

Plus helps you focus on the sugar in the context of what you are eating it in.

Extract from pb.
When you are choosing whether/how to include sugars in your Primal diet, I’d suggest paying closest attention to the total sugar content first, then to any nutritional benefit

That doesn't sound like never eat it!

Eta: love the source code!

vjtomlinson

Hi, Nutrition student at UC Davis, currently taking 4 different nutrition classes taught by doctors who specialize in fields like 'fad diets'. United States medical and nutrition journals have shown the paleo diet to be a success in individual's weight loss goals, however it is not sustainable and should be monitored very carefully. It's also important to understand how the paleo diet works physiologically. If you are consuming (in general, varies by person due to genetic variation) less than 130g of carbohydrates a day (carbohydrates are fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes) in 4-7 days your body will become ketonic and you may experience dizziness, loss of appetite and weight loss. So what is ketonic and why are you losing weight? - Carbohydrates are broken down into thousands of glucose units and stored at 'glycogen' in your muscles. Glycogen is a huge energy source for your body and is used during physical activity. Glycogen is also stored with water. So when you go on a paleo diet your body starts to become depleted of its glycogen stores and because glycogen is stored with water you also lose lots of water weight - which can be anywhere from 5-10lbs of water. Your brain NEEDS glucose for energy, glucose is the ONLY energy that the brain uses and the recommended 130g of carbohydrates a day is based off of what your brain uses per day (again varies person to person). So if this diet is prolonged your body will start to become ketonic - which means that because you have no stores of glycogen, and limited blood glucose available as fuel, your body will start to break down proteins - you will feel lethargic, have bad breath, offensive flatulence, ect. Again these results MAY vary from person to person, however the research is solid on how you body deals with under consuming carbohydrates. Which is why any nutritionist, dietician would not recommend a diet, but rather a mixed diet. If you are however a professional athlete or competitor, doing the paleo or the now popular high fat diet may be advised to you by your athletic coaches.

Acg67

Good question ACG67.

I signifigantly lowered my protein intake becase of the insulin response to high amounts of protein. The recomendation that I had seen was for .8 to 1 gram per pound of lean body weight so I started there. This amount of protein is considered sufficient for your protein needs without triggering an insulin response. I didn't tinker with it very much as I was getting the results that I wanted. The 1 gram per/lb of LBW seems to be working for me right now. I've considered lowering it but have honestly been lazy around tinkering with my diet. I guess I'm taking a break from experimentation for a while.

Incorrect, perhaps insulin isn't the devil like Taubes hypothesized?

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd be interested in learning more about protein and insulin response. Do you have any recomendations on source material?

Thanks

Holt et al. An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 66, 1264-1276

http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+html

Östman et al. Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and fermented milk products. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 74, No. 1, 96-100, July 2001

http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.full

The insulinogenic effect of whey protein is partially mediated by a direct effect of amino acids and GIP on β-cells

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/9/1/48

tennisdude2004

Hi, Nutrition student at UC Davis, currently taking 4 different nutrition classes taught by doctors who specialize in fields like 'fad diets'. United States medical and nutrition journals have shown the paleo diet to be a success in individual's weight loss goals, however it is not sustainable and should be monitored very carefully. It's also important to understand how the paleo diet works physiologically. If you are consuming (in general, varies by person due to genetic variation) less than 130g of carbohydrates a day (carbohydrates are fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes) in 4-7 days your body will become ketonic and you may experience dizziness, loss of appetite and weight loss. So what is ketonic and why are you losing weight? - Carbohydrates are broken down into thousands of glucose units and stored at 'glycogen' in your muscles. Glycogen is a huge energy source for your body and is used during physical activity. Glycogen is also stored with water. So when you go on a paleo diet your body starts to become depleted of its glycogen stores and because glycogen is stored with water you also lose lots of water weight - which can be anywhere from 5-10lbs of water. Your brain NEEDS glucose for energy, glucose is the ONLY energy that the brain uses and the recommended 130g of carbohydrates a day is based off of what your brain uses per day (again varies person to person). So if this diet is prolonged your body will start to become ketonic - which means that because you have no stores of glycogen, and limited blood glucose available as fuel, your body will start to break down proteins - you will feel lethargic, have bad breath, offensive flatulence, ect. Again these results MAY vary from person to person, however the research is solid on how you body deals with under consuming carbohydrates. Which is why any nutritionist, dietician would not recommend a diet, but rather a mixed diet. If you are however a professional athlete or competitor, doing the paleo or the now popular high fat diet may be advised to you by your athletic coaches.

The brain ONLY uses glucose for fuel - really?

J72FIT

Hi, Nutrition student at UC Davis, currently taking 4 different nutrition classes taught by doctors who specialize in fields like 'fad diets'. United States medical and nutrition journals have shown the paleo diet to be a success in individual's weight loss goals, however it is not sustainable and should be monitored very carefully. It's also important to understand how the paleo diet works physiologically. If you are consuming (in general, varies by person due to genetic variation) less than 130g of carbohydrates a day (carbohydrates are fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes) in 4-7 days your body will become ketonic and you may experience dizziness, loss of appetite and weight loss. So what is ketonic and why are you losing weight? - Carbohydrates are broken down into thousands of glucose units and stored at 'glycogen' in your muscles. Glycogen is a huge energy source for your body and is used during physical activity. Glycogen is also stored with water. So when you go on a paleo diet your body starts to become depleted of its glycogen stores and because glycogen is stored with water you also lose lots of water weight - which can be anywhere from 5-10lbs of water. Your brain NEEDS glucose for energy, glucose is the ONLY energy that the brain uses and the recommended 130g of carbohydrates a day is based off of what your brain uses per day (again varies person to person). So if this diet is prolonged your body will start to become ketonic - which means that because you have no stores of glycogen, and limited blood glucose available as fuel, your body will start to break down proteins - you will feel lethargic, have bad breath, offensive flatulence, ect. Again these results MAY vary from person to person, however the research is solid on how you body deals with under consuming carbohydrates. Which is why any nutritionist, dietician would not recommend a diet, but rather a mixed diet. If you are however a professional athlete or competitor, doing the paleo or the now popular high fat diet may be advised to you by your athletic coaches.

The brain ONLY uses glucose for fuel - really?

Yeah that's just as silly as saying legumes are bad due to the lectin component...

I would also argue that we do not get fat because of insulin and insulin resistance, more so we become insulin resistant because we are fat... because we eat too much and move to little.

kgeyser

What's your point? He specifically addressed protein powders and you're trying to counter that specific point with his general guidelines? That's asinine.

So he doesn't really believe anything he writes? Either he thinks added sugars are a poison or they aren't, same with processed foods. You can't say well these are terrible terrible things, then say but this product I sell is alright cause I happen to sell it.

Maybe his thought processes isn't so one dimensional?

Even if he meant only highly processed foods are poisons and minimally processed stuff was ok, well protein powder is highly processed. It's almost like he makes stuff up as he goes. ::Looks back on what he said about insulin his book::: LOL

PB recommends getting our protein from animals - the whey *kitten* is for you guys. Personally I've never eaten a protein shake in my life, so I'm not too sure what the fuss is over them.

Here's Mark Sisson shilling for P90X Peak Performance bars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVTQzi6dLz8

Here's the ingredient label for one of the P90X peak performance bars.

http://www.beachbody.com/text/products/supplements/p90xpppbars/SUBOX0001_SUBAR1102_100110_ChocPntBtr_Box.pdf

It seems Mark Sisson recommends whatever happens to be lining his pockets at the moment.

lindsey1979

Hi, Nutrition student at UC Davis, currently taking 4 different nutrition classes taught by doctors who specialize in fields like 'fad diets'. United States medical and nutrition journals have shown the paleo diet to be a success in individual's weight loss goals, however it is not sustainable and should be monitored very carefully. It's also important to understand how the paleo diet works physiologically. If you are consuming (in general, varies by person due to genetic variation) less than 130g of carbohydrates a day (carbohydrates are fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes) in 4-7 days your body will become ketonic and you may experience dizziness, loss of appetite and weight loss. So what is ketonic and why are you losing weight? - Carbohydrates are broken down into thousands of glucose units and stored at 'glycogen' in your muscles. Glycogen is a huge energy source for your body and is used during physical activity. Glycogen is also stored with water. So when you go on a paleo diet your body starts to become depleted of its glycogen stores and because glycogen is stored with water you also lose lots of water weight - which can be anywhere from 5-10lbs of water. Your brain NEEDS glucose for energy, glucose is the ONLY energy that the brain uses and the recommended 130g of carbohydrates a day is based off of what your brain uses per day (again varies person to person). So if this diet is prolonged your body will start to become ketonic - which means that because you have no stores of glycogen, and limited blood glucose available as fuel, your body will start to break down proteins - you will feel lethargic, have bad breath, offensive flatulence, ect. Again these results MAY vary from person to person, however the research is solid on how you body deals with under consuming carbohydrates. Which is why any nutritionist, dietician would not recommend a diet, but rather a mixed diet. If you are however a professional athlete or competitor, doing the paleo or the now popular high fat diet may be advised to you by your athletic coaches.

Not all brain function requires glucose. Some brain function absolutely requires glucose, but it's only something like 25%. The rest is more than happy to use ketones as its fuel source.

lindsey1979

Hi, Nutrition student at UC Davis, currently taking 4 different nutrition classes taught by doctors who specialize in fields like 'fad diets'. United States medical and nutrition journals have shown the paleo diet to be a success in individual's weight loss goals, however it is not sustainable and should be monitored very carefully. It's also important to understand how the paleo diet works physiologically. If you are consuming (in general, varies by person due to genetic variation) less than 130g of carbohydrates a day (carbohydrates are fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes) in 4-7 days your body will become ketonic and you may experience dizziness, loss of appetite and weight loss. So what is ketonic and why are you losing weight? - Carbohydrates are broken down into thousands of glucose units and stored at 'glycogen' in your muscles. Glycogen is a huge energy source for your body and is used during physical activity. Glycogen is also stored with water. So when you go on a paleo diet your body starts to become depleted of its glycogen stores and because glycogen is stored with water you also lose lots of water weight - which can be anywhere from 5-10lbs of water. Your brain NEEDS glucose for energy, glucose is the ONLY energy that the brain uses and the recommended 130g of carbohydrates a day is based off of what your brain uses per day (again varies person to person). So if this diet is prolonged your body will start to become ketonic - which means that because you have no stores of glycogen, and limited blood glucose available as fuel, your body will start to break down proteins - you will feel lethargic, have bad breath, offensive flatulence, ect. Again these results MAY vary from person to person, however the research is solid on how you body deals with under consuming carbohydrates. Which is why any nutritionist, dietician would not recommend a diet, but rather a mixed diet. If you are however a professional athlete or competitor, doing the paleo or the now popular high fat diet may be advised to you by your athletic coaches.

The brain ONLY uses glucose for fuel - really?

Yeah that's just as silly as saying legumes are bad due to the lectin component...

I would also argue that we do not get fat because of insulin and insulin resistance, more so we become insulin resistant because we are fat... because we eat too much and move to little.

That is one way to become insulin resistant, but it isn't the only way. Some are genetically predisposed to it and naturally have a great sensitivity to carbs. Some become insulin resistant due to other hormonal balances being off kilter in the body -- thyroid, PCOS, adrenal issues, etc. -- where insulin resistance is the secondary effect.