Paleo?
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The Mac Daddy Sisson also explains that when you have a high carb "cheat" day every so often it resets certain hormone levels and is actually good for you, resets hormone levels that burn fat so you get leaner.
ETA: The hormone reset research appears extensively in this book: The Man 2.0: Engineering the Alpha.
The Mac Daddy Sisson... I like that... I'm going to roll with it...0 -
I probably know more than you do. Enough to know that there is a macronutrient distribution associated with paleo and orimal eating so therefore macros are important and worth tracking and also enough to know that paleo doesn't operate outside the laws of thermodynamics.
I've read a little on the topic, but don't mind me.
If you wish to believe that then that's your choice - not every choice we make in life is the right one though!
It's not a belief. It's science. It's fact. Kinda like it's a fact that most of your posts make you look like an idiot.
Maybe you just have a more sensitive idiot radar than most - after all idiots gravitate toward each other.
As far as science goes, if you are suggesting that a paleo or LCHF style of eating is unhealthy please post the studies.
Or if you are only commenting against the diet because you personally would find it hard to restrict certain foods and have a limited logic that if you would struggle the other 7 billion people in the world would be just like you, then with no offence intended - shutupandlift.
The vast majority of the 7 billion people that you refer to would probably prefer not to give up food they like to eat when there's no actual benefit to doing so. Lying to people about the benefits of giving up food that they'd otherwise enjoy is wrong and bad. And I know you're not actually lying, because you believe what you say to be true, but someone, somewhere along the line has spun a bunch of lies and/or misconceptions to sell a book.
What's most remarkable about the lies told to promote the paleo diet fad, is that you only have to have a 101 knowledge of palaeoanthropology to know it's a whole load of bull. The people promoting it haven't even studied palaeoanthropology. That ought to be a big fat red flag.
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Yes
go Neandermagnon!0 -
The name just also makes it easier to discuss. For those that already understand the definition, it's just easier. Sort of the whole point of labels in the first place.
One of the issues people have with Paleo, though, is that there doesn't seem to be a consistent standard or definition.
The funny part is that it only seems to be the people who are against it that have this issue. I've never seen anyone that is actually pro-primal or paleo care about it one way or the other. I certainly don't. I understand the label and flexibility with them. It's not really that difficult.
So...are legumes in or out?
Generally, they're out.
"Generally" implies exceptions. What are the exceptions?0 -
The Mac Daddy Sisson also explains that when you have a high carb "cheat" day every so often it resets certain hormone levels and is actually good for you, resets hormone levels that burn fat so you get leaner.
ETA: The hormone reset research appears extensively in this book: The Man 2.0: Engineering the Alpha.
The Mac Daddy Sisson... I like that... I'm going to roll with it...
Doesn't "Mac Daddy Sisson" also sell a processed protein supplement... to go along with his anti-processed food campaign?
Seems like he's mostly just looking to make money off of a fad.0 -
I find the "verbal gymnastics" that people do to fit paleo into their lifestyle rather amusing...Like well I am going to do Paleo 80% of the time during the week, but then on weekends I will have a "non-paleo day" and then be back at it on Monday"
or how there are like thirty different variations of it..
all rather amusing...
Assuming there were any benefits to Paleo, why the heck would you not just commit to it 100%?
Well if you are following primal then the 80/20 rule is part of the diet. You would not be following the diet properly if you didn't. (Exaggeration by the way).
But the mac daddy Sissons does build a 80/20 rule so if we do choose to go off reservation you don't loose your primal card (only mentioned that because you seem to think that's the only reason people choose to follow it).
I really am not being snarky …honestly….I just find it interesting that someone will list all of the purported benefits of "paleo" and then say but I only do it 80% of the time…if it is that beneficial wouldn't you do it 100% of the time or 95%….
just an interesting contradiction..0 -
I find the "verbal gymnastics" that people do to fit paleo into their lifestyle rather amusing...Like well I am going to do Paleo 80% of the time during the week, but then on weekends I will have a "non-paleo day" and then be back at it on Monday"
or how there are like thirty different variations of it..
all rather amusing...
Assuming there were any benefits to Paleo, why the heck would you not just commit to it 100%?
Well if you are following primal then the 80/20 rule is part of the diet. You would not be following the diet properly if you didn't. (Exaggeration by the way).
But the mac daddy Sissons does build a 80/20 rule so if we do choose to go off reservation you don't loose your primal card (only mentioned that because you seem to think that's the only reason people choose to follow it).
I really am not being snarky …honestly….I just find it interesting that someone will list all of the purported benefits of "paleo" and then say but I only do it 80% of the time…if it is that beneficial wouldn't you do it 100% of the time or 95%….
just an interesting contradiction..
If 80% is good enough and anything better is gravy then there is no contradiction ( that being said I can only talk from a primal style LCHF diet - I've never ventured into strict paleo - although I hardly eat dairy and don't bother with legumes or grain anymore).0 -
The name just also makes it easier to discuss. For those that already understand the definition, it's just easier. Sort of the whole point of labels in the first place.
One of the issues people have with Paleo, though, is that there doesn't seem to be a consistent standard or definition.
The funny part is that it only seems to be the people who are against it that have this issue. I've never seen anyone that is actually pro-primal or paleo care about it one way or the other. I certainly don't. I understand the label and flexibility with them. It's not really that difficult.
So...are legumes in or out?
Generally, they're out.
"Generally" implies exceptions. What are the exceptions?
Some people really struggle with this. It's not about being anti-legume per se, but about being anti-lectins. Legumes are generally out because of the high lectin component. I believe an exception to that or where it gets gray is with something like green beans. They are legumes, but the "bean" portion is very small in relation to the overall amount consumed (i.e. most of it is the pod). So, I believe there is an exception with that or at least it's recognized as not being as detrimental as other legumes.
Plus, because you have the 80/20 thing, you can include them in your 20 if you really LOVE them. But even keeping them in the 20, generally means that they're greatly reduced otherwise.
From what I've seen with primal is that Mark focuses on progress rather than perfection, which is why there is a great deal of flexibility built into the primal lifestyle rather than strict paleo.0 -
I find the "verbal gymnastics" that people do to fit paleo into their lifestyle rather amusing...Like well I am going to do Paleo 80% of the time during the week, but then on weekends I will have a "non-paleo day" and then be back at it on Monday"
or how there are like thirty different variations of it..
all rather amusing...
Assuming there were any benefits to Paleo, why the heck would you not just commit to it 100%?
Well if you are following primal then the 80/20 rule is part of the diet. You would not be following the diet properly if you didn't. (Exaggeration by the way).
But the mac daddy Sissons does build a 80/20 rule so if we do choose to go off reservation you don't loose your primal card (only mentioned that because you seem to think that's the only reason people choose to follow it).
I really am not being snarky …honestly….I just find it interesting that someone will list all of the purported benefits of "paleo" and then say but I only do it 80% of the time…if it is that beneficial wouldn't you do it 100% of the time or 95%….
just an interesting contradiction..
A lot of things aren't linear in nature. Sometimes you can get a great deal of benefit from a specific amount of effort --- the whole law of diminishing returns. Some, like Celiacs, need 100% gluten free because they're very sensitive to gluten. Others find that they have less sensitive issue, so just restricting them a good deal works wonders -- they see no difference from 100% versus 90% free, or whatever percentage you want to put in there. Or they find that they're fine with a limited amount of gluten from non-grain heavy sources -- so beer, they're fine with, but flour, not so much.
It's really about finding out what works for any given individual, which is why there is so much flexibility built into Primal.0 -
Hi...I have been Paleo on and off for about a year, I have seen great results! I know a lot of people frown upon the no grains, but it really helped my stomach problems and digestive issues. Its really not that hard either, now with all the web sites and diff recipe sites you really don't miss all the grains...I really prefer being on Paleo, it works for me
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It surprised me too, but as they say, the proof is in the tasting of the pudding. *shrugs* I was eating less than 20 grams of fat in any day, and now I can eat pretty much any amount without problem. I will occasionally still get heart burn, particularly if I eat a lot of fat in one sitting, which is considered a pre-gallbladder attack symptom, but I haven't had a full attack since I started the transition to paleo. Of course, it hasn't been that long, but so far so good. *knock on wood*
Hm, that actually surprises me. I figured with all of the high fat foods people would be more likely to have gallbladder flares (if already having problems).I eat about an 80% paleo diet, and have been for a bit over a month. I like it. It's fun.
It has completely made my mornings much better, I've lost weight, and my symptoms of gallstones have almost completely disappeared. I haven't had a single gallbladder attack since I switched over to paleo.
I enjoy making the effort to eat whole foods, I like eating meat, I am not a big fan of dairy, and I never really got carb flu, so I like it.0 -
The Mac Daddy Sisson also explains that when you have a high carb "cheat" day every so often it resets certain hormone levels and is actually good for you, resets hormone levels that burn fat so you get leaner.
ETA: The hormone reset research appears extensively in this book: The Man 2.0: Engineering the Alpha.
The Mac Daddy Sisson... I like that... I'm going to roll with it...
Doesn't "Mac Daddy Sisson" also sell a processed protein supplement... to go along with his anti-processed food campaign?
Seems like he's mostly just looking to make money off of a fad.
The Mac Daddy sure does sell protein and a few supplements. I've never used it, but for all the free help along the way I've gleamed from his articles, website, blog and books I borrowed from the library, I sure do hope someone buys the supplements and that he earns a buck for his efforts.
Unlike a lot of programs, there is no monthly fee or anything like that related to using the site, forums, recipes, or books (some books are on the website free as a PDF).
Because I'd been using the program for years with no monetary compensation, I didn't mind at all making my only purchase from the site, a T-shirt for my boyfriend on Valentines day that says "Get Primal".
ETA: I get my protein from a shopper's club Sam's in bulk because it's cheap, but if I could afford it, I would certainly love to try his Primal stuff.0 -
The Mac Daddy Sisson also explains that when you have a high carb "cheat" day every so often it resets certain hormone levels and is actually good for you, resets hormone levels that burn fat so you get leaner.
ETA: The hormone reset research appears extensively in this book: The Man 2.0: Engineering the Alpha.
The Mac Daddy Sisson... I like that... I'm going to roll with it...
Doesn't "Mac Daddy Sisson" also sell a processed protein supplement... to go along with his anti-processed food campaign?
Seems like he's mostly just looking to make money off of a fad.
The Mac Daddy sure does sell protein and a few supplements. I've never used it, but for all the free help along the way I've gleamed from his articles, website, blog and books I borrowed from the library, I sure do hope someone buys the supplements and that he earns a buck for his efforts.
Unlike a lot of programs, there is no monthly fee or anything like that related to using the site, forums, recipes, or books (some books are on the website free as a PDF).
Because I'd been using the program for years with no monetary compensation, I didn't mind at all making my only purchase from the site, a T-shirt for my boyfriend on Valentines day that says "Get Primal".
ETA: I get my protein from a shopper's club Sam's in bulk because it's cheap, but if I could afford it, I would certainly love to try his Primal stuff.
I would second that I have benefited from primal - podcasts, ebooks, recipes - all for the extortionate cost of - nothing, not a single penny.0 -
Legumes are generally out because of the high lectin component.
That is only an issue if you eat them raw...0 -
His claim. "We have immense control through lifestyle behaviors to turn some genes on and other genes off for desired physical results."
The reality. This statement is ridiculous. We don't have the knowledge to control differential gene expression (turning genes on and off) for desired physical results. It's an extremely complex process and our knowledge is in its infancy.
His genetics claims all sounds lovely and "sciencey" but they're a lot of hogswallop.
Wow. Calling that an "oversimplification" of out CURRENT knowledge of genetic function is doing him an extreme kindness.
I do believe he is talking about gene expression! And yes he does conclude we are at a very early stage of understanding.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18396267?ordinalpos=15&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18381840?ordinalpos=21&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18240541?ordinalpos=98&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Yes, it's well known that dietary components alter gene expression, but what often isn't known is the effect at the protein level and ultimately the effect (or not) on phenotype, the genes involved (there are ~25K genes in our genome), the titration of nutrients involved, other modulating factors, individual differences, tissue response (it's not so easy doing this type of work in human tissue and blood doesn't always reflect what's happening at the tissue level) etc etc. He makes it sound like it's a science that is well understood and within our control; and that his 'diet prescription' can direct gene expression toward favourable health outcomes. His quote is "We have immense control through lifestyle behaviors to turn some genes on and other genes off for desired physical results."
I know this area well from first hand experience and he is talking absolute rubbish.0 -
Not at all. Doctors still recommend Paleo diets to type 2 diabetes patients.
People with other issues are still benefiting from Paleo.
If you're healthy and happy, with no inclination to go Paleo, don't go Paleo.
I was pointing out the irony in the fact that it's the last ditch resort when something goes terribly wrong, while everyone is repeating the mantra "Don't do Paleo unless something is wrong."
There is such a thing as preventative medicine.
I had reactive hypoglycemia in the past (a symptom of pre-diabetes.)
I went Paleo, now it's gone.
When I weighed 245 and had hypoglycemia, I was about a season away from being your next type 2 diabetes patient.
Knowing the diabetes runs in my family, I'm going to stay Paleo to prevent it.
Now I have no symptoms of anything diabetic, and probably never will, because I choose a healing diet that is recommended for type 2 diabetes patients.
:flowerforyou:
No doctor I know recommends Paleo and I've only recently worked in diabetes clinics in 2 different city hospitals.
Actually I've never heard of a specialist clinician recommending Paleo as a last ditch resort when something goes terribly wrong.
That's pretty much my issue with Pale/Primal followers....the claims that the diet is superior from a health perspective. I'm yet to see the evidence (not n=1 evidence).0 -
His claim. "We have immense control through lifestyle behaviors to turn some genes on and other genes off for desired physical results."
The reality. This statement is ridiculous. We don't have the knowledge to control differential gene expression (turning genes on and off) for desired physical results. It's an extremely complex process and our knowledge is in its infancy.
His genetics claims all sounds lovely and "sciencey" but they're a lot of hogswallop.
Wow. Calling that an "oversimplification" of out CURRENT knowledge of genetic function is doing him an extreme kindness.
I do believe he is talking about gene expression! And yes he does conclude we are at a very early stage of understanding.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18396267?ordinalpos=15&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18381840?ordinalpos=21&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18240541?ordinalpos=98&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Yes, it's well known that dietary components alter gene expression, but what often isn't known is the effect at the protein level and ultimately the effect (or not) on phenotype, the genes involved (there are ~25K genes in our genome), the titration of nutrients involved, other modulating factors, individual differences, tissue response (it's not so easy doing this type of work in human tissue and blood doesn't always reflect what's happening at the tissue level) etc etc. He makes it sound like it's a science that is well understood and within our control; and that his 'diet prescription' can direct gene expression toward favourable health outcomes. His quote is "We have immense control through lifestyle behaviors to turn some genes on and other genes off for desired physical results."
I know this area well from first hand experience and he is talking absolute rubbish.
If you read beyond the cover he does conclude that gene expression is in its in its infancy and not that well understood.0 -
Not at all. Doctors still recommend Paleo diets to type 2 diabetes patients.
People with other issues are still benefiting from Paleo.
If you're healthy and happy, with no inclination to go Paleo, don't go Paleo.
I was pointing out the irony in the fact that it's the last ditch resort when something goes terribly wrong, while everyone is repeating the mantra "Don't do Paleo unless something is wrong."
There is such a thing as preventative medicine.
I had reactive hypoglycemia in the past (a symptom of pre-diabetes.)
I went Paleo, now it's gone.
When I weighed 245 and had hypoglycemia, I was about a season away from being your next type 2 diabetes patient.
Knowing the diabetes runs in my family, I'm going to stay Paleo to prevent it.
Now I have no symptoms of anything diabetic, and probably never will, because I choose a healing diet that is recommended for type 2 diabetes patients.
:flowerforyou:
No doctor I know recommends Paleo and I've only recently worked in diabetes clinics in 2 different city hospitals.
Actually I've never heard of a specialist clinician recommending Paleo as a last ditch resort when something goes terribly wrong.
That's pretty much my issue with Pale/Primal followers....the claims that the diet is superior from a health perspective. I'm yet to see the evidence (not n=1 evidence).
Maybe the issue is you have is inferiority complex. When people on this forum say that moderation and IIFYM is a great diet and superior I normal say - great whatever works for you.
I try not to support my beliefs by putting down others, I will however offer my beliefs up as a possible alternative, but never claim I'm right their wrong - it's a bit weak if you have to resort to that just to get your point across.0 -
I do primal and it works for me. I started strict Paleo and felt awesome. It was the only thing I found to help out with the extreme bouts of fatigue I was experiencing (which I now is related to a thyroid disorder). But wanted to see if I could add back in dairy without any adverse effects. There were none for me (no lactose or casein issues apparently), so I eat dairy as well -- generally cheese, cream and butter for cooking, sauces and/or garnish. I'm not much a legume fan, with the exception of peanuts, and I like almonds, macadamias, etc. just as much, if not more, than peanuts, so it's an easy switch. Peanuts are just cheaper and more convenient. Either way, I limit my nuts as a general rule as it's just so easy to overeat them.
I also opt for the 80/20 rule, probably for psychological reasons more than anything else as my diet actually ends up being more like 95/5. But, it feels good to me to have the occasional dark chocolate or something like that if I want to -- takes away the forbidden food idea.
If you really love grains, pasta, bread or legumes, it's probably not a good fit for you. But, if you're like me and those things aren't a big deal (and you end of feeling better not eating them -- which was a big surprise for me), then it can be a good fit. I still love my pasta sauces (I make a mean vodka sauce) and curries -- I just serve them over spaghetti squash or roasted cauliflower now instead of pasta or rice. And, let me tell you, roasted cauliflower is ridiculously filling -- I was sort of shocked by it.
I don't know why people pooh-pooh Paleo/Primal or keto so much on this site. They're all valid paths to the same place -- i.e. healthier living. Some appear to be threatened by the existence of equally valid paths. Still boggles my mind.
Do you really think that's the issue?
For me it's the fact that certain followers claim that the {insert whatever diet here] diet is superior from a health perspective. When I ask for evidence, as I usually do, I get directed to a website written by someone who spouts convincing but unsubstantiated claims (eg. the genetics claims to support Primal Blueprint that I know are bs because of my education and research background). When I ask for something credible, the same people get defensive and accuse me of being a hater.
People can eat whatever they like, I couldn't give a rats, but when they start throwing around the superior health claims, I feel that they need to back them up with something reasonable.0 -
I do primal and it works for me. I started strict Paleo and felt awesome. It was the only thing I found to help out with the extreme bouts of fatigue I was experiencing (which I now is related to a thyroid disorder). But wanted to see if I could add back in dairy without any adverse effects. There were none for me (no lactose or casein issues apparently), so I eat dairy as well -- generally cheese, cream and butter for cooking, sauces and/or garnish. I'm not much a legume fan, with the exception of peanuts, and I like almonds, macadamias, etc. just as much, if not more, than peanuts, so it's an easy switch. Peanuts are just cheaper and more convenient. Either way, I limit my nuts as a general rule as it's just so easy to overeat them.
I also opt for the 80/20 rule, probably for psychological reasons more than anything else as my diet actually ends up being more like 95/5. But, it feels good to me to have the occasional dark chocolate or something like that if I want to -- takes away the forbidden food idea.
If you really love grains, pasta, bread or legumes, it's probably not a good fit for you. But, if you're like me and those things aren't a big deal (and you end of feeling better not eating them -- which was a big surprise for me), then it can be a good fit. I still love my pasta sauces (I make a mean vodka sauce) and curries -- I just serve them over spaghetti squash or roasted cauliflower now instead of pasta or rice. And, let me tell you, roasted cauliflower is ridiculously filling -- I was sort of shocked by it.
I don't know why people pooh-pooh Paleo/Primal or keto so much on this site. They're all valid paths to the same place -- i.e. healthier living. Some appear to be threatened by the existence of equally valid paths. Still boggles my mind.
Do you really think that's the issue?
For me it's the fact that certain followers claim that the {insert whatever diet here] diet is superior from a health perspective. When I ask for evidence, as I usually do, I get directed to a website written by someone who spouts convincing but unsubstantiated claims (eg. the genetics claims to support Primal Blueprint that I know are bs because of my education and research background). When I ask for something credible, the same people get defensive and accuse me of being a hater.
People can eat whatever they like, I couldn't give a rats, but when they start throwing around the superior health claims, I feel that they need to back them up with something reasonable.
Yes!0 -
Not at all. Doctors still recommend Paleo diets to type 2 diabetes patients.
People with other issues are still benefiting from Paleo.
If you're healthy and happy, with no inclination to go Paleo, don't go Paleo.
I was pointing out the irony in the fact that it's the last ditch resort when something goes terribly wrong, while everyone is repeating the mantra "Don't do Paleo unless something is wrong."
There is such a thing as preventative medicine.
I had reactive hypoglycemia in the past (a symptom of pre-diabetes.)
I went Paleo, now it's gone.
When I weighed 245 and had hypoglycemia, I was about a season away from being your next type 2 diabetes patient.
Knowing the diabetes runs in my family, I'm going to stay Paleo to prevent it.
Now I have no symptoms of anything diabetic, and probably never will, because I choose a healing diet that is recommended for type 2 diabetes patients.
:flowerforyou:
No doctor I know recommends Paleo and I've only recently worked in diabetes clinics in 2 different city hospitals.
Actually I've never heard of a specialist clinician recommending Paleo as a last ditch resort when something goes terribly wrong.
That's pretty much my issue with Pale/Primal followers....the claims that the diet is superior from a health perspective. I'm yet to see the evidence (not n=1 evidence).
Maybe the issue is you have is inferiority complex. When people on this forum say that moderation and IIFYM is a great diet and superior I normal say - great whatever works for you.
I try not to support my beliefs by putting down others, I will however offer my beliefs up as a possible alternative, but never claim I'm right their wrong - it's a bit weak if you have to resort to that just to get your point across.
Inferiority complex? :laugh: That's a good one........it's funny how you always seem to resort to personal attacks when you can't think of anything else. It says a lot about your ability to reason at an intelligent level.
What do I have to feel inferior about? I've never discussed my way of eating.
When have I ever put someone down. That's your MI, not mine.
For the record, I've also not heard people who recommend a balanced approach claim superior health benefits.0
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