Why do people seem to bash "healthy"eating?

JoRocka

Surprisingly, Costco (or was it Sam's?) carries what they say is grass-fed/finished beef. It isn't quite as good because you won't know the beef's name like I did, but it's a step in the right food-pride direction. Careful...this slippery slope can lead to extreme food smugness that will make you nearly intolerable in the MFP forums.

I'd love to have home grown food- really I would. But - it's hard unless you go out of your way- or are willing to pay for it. Here in NJ anything "organic" or farm fresh is almost always marked up by at least 50% more.
I'm not am member of costco- but I'm considering it now that my BF and I are eating more food together.

LoupGarouTFTs

My takeaway from these types of threads is that food has feelings, and calling a food bad is not only hurtful to the food, but to the people who (for some reason) care about the reputation and mental well-being of food.

So you don't see that by labeling a food that a person is consuming as "dirty" that you are also implying that the person consuming the food is "dirty?"

If you personalize the criticism of food, that is your own unfortunate choice. I eat 70-80% clean - the 20-30% that I eat "dirty" doesn't seem to depress me or affect my self-esteem, I fail to see what that has to do with my self-image. Let's all stop being offended at every single possible opportunity, it serves no purpose.

*Edited for grammar issue - please don't criticize my need to edit this message, grammar shaming is cruel

So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

Eating disorders are typically caused by some psychological issue. Low self-esteem is one reason. Depression is another. It's also possible that it's simply part of a compulsive behavioral disorder. At any rate, I fail to see the connection between an eating disorder and the facetious comment about food having its own feelings.

And you don't see the connection between low self-esteem and depression, repeatedly being told your food is dirty (or labeling it thus yourself), and eating disorders?

getitamb

Why can't u do both? #team80/20rule

VoodooSyxx

Why can't u do both? #team80/20rule

Because apparently just the act of putting the greasy burrito in the 20 camp will hurt it's feels.

_John_

Why can't u do both? #team80/20rule

team 80/20 derps it up by emphasizing the 80 to make them look better and discouraging the 20 while arguiing with IIFYMers that it's not ok to eat ice cream if you've eaten all this healthy food the rest of your day.

jofjltncb6

I was a "clean eater" and I did this.

My friends who have tackled "clean eating" whether through a month-challenge or 3-month-challenge or an overall lifestyle change also did or do this. It's either "look at me eating this healthy stuff" or "look at how terrible I feel after sneaking this piece of junk non-food" or "look at how terrible I feel after binge-eating this thing I avoided for the last three months."

My comment comes 100% from direct observation.

While there are a lot of binge threads...there being several reasons for those threads but won't get into that here...

What I'm wanting to say is I don't ever feel terrible after I eat what you like to call junk non-food. Which personally I find junk non-food to be an oxymoron - because it IS food, not non-food. If it can be eaten, it's food.

Yup.

The biggest problem I've personally had with certain foods that could have been incorrectly interpreted like this is when I went lowish fat for a period of time and *then* ate a high fat meal. I suspect a lot of people who eat "clean" (using a seemingly popular definition of the word...in this case, those variations that would also lead them to eating a lowish fat diet) who then eat "junk" (again using a seemingly popular definition, but for this example, let's use chili cheese fries) and have a physical response to the drastic increase in dietary fat. This response is not an indication of the relatively "healthiness" of the food, but rather a very natural response to a sudden increase in dietary fat.

In a totally unrelated thought, many people recommend increasing fiber as a remedy for constipation. My first recommendation is to increase dietary fat. True story.

_John_

Yup.

The biggest problem I've personally had with certain foods that could have been incorrectly interpreted like this is when I went lowish fat for a period of time and *then* ate a high fat meal. I suspect a lot of people who eat "clean" (using a seemingly popular definition of the word...in this case, those variations that would also lead them to eating a lowish fat diet) who then eat "junk" (again using a seemingly popular definition, but for this example, let's use chili cheese fries) and have a physical response to the drastic increase in dietary fat. This response is not an indication of the relatively "healthiness" of the food, but rather a very natural response to a sudden increase in dietary fat.

In a totally unrelated thought, many people recommend increasing fiber as a remedy for constipation. My first recommendation is to increase dietary fat. True story.

Tracking dietary fat while "eating clean" (I have a broader definition than the crazies) is why MFP is stuck with me...

establishingaplace

I was a "clean eater" and I did this.

My friends who have tackled "clean eating" whether through a month-challenge or 3-month-challenge or an overall lifestyle change also did or do this. It's either "look at me eating this healthy stuff" or "look at how terrible I feel after sneaking this piece of junk non-food" or "look at how terrible I feel after binge-eating this thing I avoided for the last three months."

My comment comes 100% from direct observation.

While there are a lot of binge threads...there being several reasons for those threads but won't get into that here...

What I'm wanting to say is I don't ever feel terrible after I eat what you like to call junk non-food. Which personally I find junk non-food to be an oxymoron - because it IS food, not non-food. If it can be eaten, it's food.

In this case "junk non-food" just refers to kinds of foods that clean eaters would claim is junk, garbage, "that's not real food," etc.

I am not calling anything junk non-food, although there was a time I would have.

Bry_Fitness70

My takeaway from these types of threads is that food has feelings, and calling a food bad is not only hurtful to the food, but to the people who (for some reason) care about the reputation and mental well-being of food.

So you don't see that by labeling a food that a person is consuming as "dirty" that you are also implying that the person consuming the food is "dirty?"

If you personalize the criticism of food, that is your own unfortunate choice. I eat 70-80% clean - the 20-30% that I eat "dirty" doesn't seem to depress me or affect my self-esteem, I fail to see what that has to do with my self-image. Let's all stop being offended at every single possible opportunity, it serves no purpose.

*Edited for grammar issue - please don't criticize my need to edit this message, grammar shaming is cruel

So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

People make a choice to click on a message board with the topic plainly stated. If you have an eating disorder, you have to decide whether clicking on something about "clean eating" will be damaging to your mental state and act accordingly.

LoupGarouTFTs

[
So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

People make a choice to click on a message board with the topic plainly stated. If you have an eating disorder, you have to decide whether clicking on something about "clean eating" will be damaging to your mental state and act accordingly.

You do realize that the vast majority of people with an eating disorder either have no idea they have it or deny that they do? And that people with eating disorders have such disordered thinking about food that they cannot make reasoned or accurate decisions about food or their perception of it on their own, right?

_HeartsOnFire_

[
So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

People make a choice to click on a message board with the topic plainly stated. If you have an eating disorder, you have to decide whether clicking on something about "clean eating" will be damaging to your mental state and act accordingly.

You do realize that the vast majority of people with an eating disorder either have no idea they have it or deny that they do? And that people with eating disorders have such disordered thinking about food that they cannot make reasoned or accurate decisions about food or their perception of it on their own, right?

This!

90% I've run into on this board are completely in denial or aren't aware until people start asking questions. They don't want to face it until they are ready to do so.

jofjltncb6

Yup.

The biggest problem I've personally had with certain foods that could have been incorrectly interpreted like this is when I went lowish fat for a period of time and *then* ate a high fat meal. I suspect a lot of people who eat "clean" (using a seemingly popular definition of the word...in this case, those variations that would also lead them to eating a lowish fat diet) who then eat "junk" (again using a seemingly popular definition, but for this example, let's use chili cheese fries) and have a physical response to the drastic increase in dietary fat. This response is not an indication of the relatively "healthiness" of the food, but rather a very natural response to a sudden increase in dietary fat.

In a totally unrelated thought, many people recommend increasing fiber as a remedy for constipation. My first recommendation is to increase dietary fat. True story.

Tracking dietary fat while "eating clean" (I have a broader definition than the crazies) is why MFP is stuck with me...

(I found it remarkably helpful for this during my year of paleo in 2012...if only to realize that I was frequently getting >55% of my daily calories from fat.

But I'm mostly just here to see what happens next.)

WendyTerry420

My takeaway from these types of threads is that food has feelings, and calling a food bad is not only hurtful to the food, but to the people who (for some reason) care about the reputation and mental well-being of food.

So you don't see that by labeling a food that a person is consuming as "dirty" that you are also implying that the person consuming the food is "dirty?"

If you personalize the criticism of food, that is your own unfortunate choice. I eat 70-80% clean - the 20-30% that I eat "dirty" doesn't seem to depress me or affect my self-esteem, I fail to see what that has to do with my self-image. Let's all stop being offended at every single possible opportunity, it serves no purpose.

*Edited for grammar issue - please don't criticize my need to edit this message, grammar shaming is cruel

So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

Eating disorders are typically caused by some psychological issue. Low self-esteem is one reason. Depression is another. It's also possible that it's simply part of a compulsive behavioral disorder. At any rate, I fail to see the connection between an eating disorder and the facetious comment about food having its own feelings.

And you don't see the connection between low self-esteem and depression, repeatedly being told your food is dirty (or labeling it thus yourself), and eating disorders?

I think people who attribute morally subjective labels might have an eating disorder. But that still has nothing to do with how the food feels about being labeled.

WendyTerry420

[
So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

People make a choice to click on a message board with the topic plainly stated. If you have an eating disorder, you have to decide whether clicking on something about "clean eating" will be damaging to your mental state and act accordingly.

You do realize that the vast majority of people with an eating disorder either have no idea they have it or deny that they do? And that people with eating disorders have such disordered thinking about food that they cannot make reasoned or accurate decisions about food or their perception of it on their own, right?

You do realize that people like that need help? When I was in that place, it also led to substance abuse. My husband talked me into seeing a counselor, who helped me figure out how to deal with my issues in a healthy way. People like that need professional help, not a message board. Hopefully a loved one will steer them in the right direction. Strangers in a forum aren't going to help much.

kgeyser

[
So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

People make a choice to click on a message board with the topic plainly stated. If you have an eating disorder, you have to decide whether clicking on something about "clean eating" will be damaging to your mental state and act accordingly.

You do realize that the vast majority of people with an eating disorder either have no idea they have it or deny that they do? And that people with eating disorders have such disordered thinking about food that they cannot make reasoned or accurate decisions about food or their perception of it on their own, right?

^I don't think this is accurate in the context of eating disorders, but I would agree that labeling foods can lead to messed up relationships with food and disordered eating. We see plenty of posts on here asking if certain foods are "allowed" when trying to lose weight, because of the myths people perpetuate about healthy vs unhealthy foods, as though the food itself bears some responsibility for the person's weight gain.

jmv7117

[
So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

People make a choice to click on a message board with the topic plainly stated. If you have an eating disorder, you have to decide whether clicking on something about "clean eating" will be damaging to your mental state and act accordingly.

You do realize that the vast majority of people with an eating disorder either have no idea they have it or deny that they do? And that people with eating disorders have such disordered thinking about food that they cannot make reasoned or accurate decisions about food or their perception of it on their own, right?

It is surprising the number of folk here with an ED in the making, an active ED or in recovery from an ED which is one reason I think it is necessary to temper replies. There is no need for the judgmental demonizing of any food. There is also no need to tell anyone else they need to eat a certain way. It is fine to say "I eat [diet description]" or "I don't eat [a particular food] (no justification needed)" but it is not ok to say "My way of eating is the only way.". Really, if your way is the only correct way of eating, at some point down the road you will be proved right and you can say I told you so (better to just think it than say it).

FlaxMilk

I can only speak for myself, but a theory on clean closed diaries: off the internet, people already question my food choices a lot. I'm used to it and if the person isn't rude, it's fine, but I like that on mfp the only person looking is me. I was under 1200 calories yesterday though if anyone really wants to have it out on someone.

I can't remember think of calling a food or person dirty. "Clean" is a personal guideline and I wouldn't use it with others outside of these types of conversations because it's true that the word has little meaning because of everyone having a slightly different definition. Like someone else said, I don't feel dirty when I don't eat "clean." I take no more identification with it than I do with how clean my car is.

Bry_Fitness70

[
So, all eating disorders are just taking things personally? All people think they way you do and no one has a different locus of control?

People make a choice to click on a message board with the topic plainly stated. If you have an eating disorder, you have to decide whether clicking on something about "clean eating" will be damaging to your mental state and act accordingly.

You do realize that the vast majority of people with an eating disorder either have no idea they have it or deny that they do? And that people with eating disorders have such disordered thinking about food that they cannot make reasoned or accurate decisions about food or their perception of it on their own, right?

A snarky message board is just that - this isn't a group therapy session guided by professional therapists, it is a gathering of anonymous users with varying degrees of knowledge, maturity, and common sense. If this environment fuels a mental disorder, that is an issue of the person affected, we can't all be expected to censor our opinions in order to protect other anonymous users, we might as well just heavily censor it or pull the plug on the entire medium.

VoodooSyxx

I'm just trying to eat healthier because it makes me feel better and it makes it a lot easier to stay under my calorie limit. I imagine one day when I'm at maintenance and have more calories to play with, I'll probably eat some pizza and burritos once again. I will not go through a bunch of mental gymnastics and lie to myself that those things are healthy or good for me though.

lemurcat12

I don't agree with nor have I denied the existence of these types of offending statements. The mature thing to do would be to comment to the person making the comment and not paint everyone who is in whatever niche eating style with the same brush. Someone who simply mentions they eat clean should not get the wrath of every member who for whatever reason is ticked off either by vocal clean eaters or the concept itself. The unfortunate thing is, this type of thing is hindering what could be some very interesting discussion. It is a lost learning opportunity simply because some (and that refers to anyone eating a particular style or avoiding a particular food) try to push their ideals down the throats of others.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, just up to this post. I agree that there's probably some interesting discussion that is getting lost.

But doesn't this thread in a sense represent precisely what you are complaining about? People keep saying that healthy eating is bashed, but it's mostly not (IME, and again I'm sure I haven't read everything). Instead, posts that equate eating "clean" (in a particularly limited understanding of the term, usually) with losing weight or what's necessary to be healthy are what's based. Now, if you see someone actually bashing those who try to eat healthy--and I do think that sometimes there's a kneejerk reaction by someone against people's personal intentions for themselves--why not say something there instead of making a broader claim that people who dislike the term "clean eating" are jealous or some such (even though so far as I can tell there's no difference in how healthily the two camps actually eat, so why would they be? it's not like they are ill or struggling with cravings).

Also, I agree that people should not be bashed for using the term "clean eating" (I don't think this is so common as you seem to, but still). However, shouldn't it also follow that if you know that the term clean for food tends to derail discussions or be perceived by people as an attack on their food--saying something isn't clean is quite a bit different than saying it's not nutrient dense even though there can be debates as to what "nutrient dense" means--that it would be better not to insist on the term. Insisting on the term despite all this strongly suggests that the negative statement about all foods that don't fit and the people who eat them (unclean eaters?) is intended. If nothing else, doesn't this serve to prevent interesting discussion?

Also, it's worth noting what the "healthy eating" arguments seem to be about lately. Apparently "unclean" foods include all dairy (lengthy thread plus several others asserting that all dairy is bad, unnatural, disgusting, etc.), all potatoes, all bread and pasta (all the white foods, really), all non-nutrient dense foods (so if I make a cake for a family birthday from scratch, that's unclean), and on and on. I'm actually perfectly interested in a discussion of what makes a healthy diet, especially for those of us on lower calorie plans, and sure there's a possibly interesting difference in emphasis between those who think it is important to eliminate all foods that don't meet some optimal nutrition standard individually vs. those who think the overall mix of foods is more important and that it's better to emphasize the inclusion of things vs. complete elimination of others, but why is it necessary to declare foods clean and unclean, as if there were some kind of objective standard?