Nagging about saving money for IVF
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I'm starting to feel really guilty about my spending habits after seeing everyone question where $100/week goes...
The important thing is that you understand budgets are this tight for a great many people in the US--and even tighter in some other parts of the world.
If you can spend more freely, by all means enjoy your good fortune (pun intended)--but keep compassion for those who can't.
There has been a social tendency in the US lately to "blame" people for their lack of "success" financially, attributing moral faults like "lazyness" etc. which really are not true. Whatever your situation, keep in mind that success means hard work and preparedness, but *also* requires luck.
As an explicit example of luck being required for "success", I once had opportunity to talk with a physician/professor who was on the admissions board of a major medical school. She told me that there are 5 times the number of qualified applicants each year than slots in US medical schools. This means that after they have winnowed down the pool to the group of all people who would be equally good doctors after training, they must still reject 4 out of 5 of them, and that sometimes it felt like their decisions were like throwing darts at a board or picking cards from a pile at random. This means, from the applicant's standpoint, that the applicant could do everything "right" in their academic career--and still have a 4 out of 5 chance of failing to get into any med school at all. These are certainly not lazy or stupid people, and their "failure" to enter that career boils down to sheer unfavorable luck.
So--if you have $100 to spend on a day at the spa, please enjoy the hell out of it for yourself and for all those who can't afford it. And be kind to those who can't afford it.
And if you are ever in a position to give a deserving person the luck element they need, I hope you will jump at the chance to empower them.
Um, no. Success does not require a bit of "luck". People are successful because they work HARD at it. They work 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week. They put all their time, effort and energy into making whatever it is they are doing work.
So much this. I hate it when people say "oh you're so lucky to have a good job"
What the hell ever. It came after working my *kitten* off for years, and I never, EVER have time to do anything, becuase I'm always at work. That's not luck. People that think it's luck are the people that think if they wait around, a good job will just come to them.
I feel lucky to have a good job.
Yes, I work hard at it, but there was a time when I was an over-qualified Wal-mart employee because good jobs are hard to get now-a-days.
Now I have my good job back, and I count my luck and blessings almost daily for it.0 -
If he is always over spending then his pocket money isn't sufficient or they aren't doing a budget together.
I skipped most of the thread but it sounds like she deals with the finances.0 -
What is kind of funny is that financial issues are no different than fitness ones really. If your spending goes over what you have budgeted you will go into debt (or in this case not be able to save), just like you go over the calories you have budgeted you will gain weight. I find it very interesting that some people can be super disciplined in one area, but suck at the other. As far as money goes, I could go forever sticking to that budget and never go over... but I am not as successful with food.
Just like fitness though, you can't nag someone into getting into being financially fit. They will either want to change themselves and dig down and find the discipline to do it or they won't.
And this, big time. You have to want to do it. And not just say you want to, but want to enough that everyday, you wake up and make the choice to save your money. If you don't have a budgeting app, get one. Get it set up with info for the last few months and then show him the pie charts and graphs so you can both see where your money is going and what is preventing you from saving.0 -
OP: If you don't want to nag, don't. Sit him down and talk to him about it. Maybe try $150 instead. Ask him to recommit to it. Then just sit back. You aren't his mother. He's an adult. If he won't do it, he won't do it. Yes, this might delay your IVF but that's on him.0
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Why not adopt some of the millions of babies out there that need you instead of making more mouths to feed?
Thats what I said. It got ignored by the OP
Because it's rude, and ignorant....Why should infertile people be chastised for wanting biological babies, and doing what they have to do to try and get them?
^SO MUCH THIS.
Cali, go back and read my response on page 7.
I quoted with the 'ignored' part.
My original suggestion of adoption was more tactful.
As I said previously, I'm not anti-IVF. I suggested adoption because not everyone thinks of it. And the OP addressed it, adoption is next if IVF doesn't work. Or they may adopt even if it does.0 -
Thank you for this. He has had genetic testing. He has a micro deletion in his Y Chromosome which they are assuming is the cause for the low sperm count / motility. As far as we know, nothing wrong with me. I ovulate, grow follicles, ect. I haven't done an HSG or anything yet. THat will be required prior to IVF.Why not adopt some of the millions of babies out there that need you instead of making more mouths to feed?
Sadly, in many situations adoption is even more expensive than ivf, if you are looking to adopt an infant or toddler.
add: Have you had genetic counseling to know the reasons for your infertility issues?
if the infertility is due to you having antibodies that could cause spontaneous abortions so you are unlikely to carry to term, or if your issue is hereditary rather than acquired (acquired eg: tube-scarring caused by a past bacterial infection (some STD's can do this to women and to men)), then you may want to look into adopting even if it is more expensive.
The reasons are, if you have antibody problems, then every pregnancy, even ivf, is a risk to both your life and the baby's. And if you have a hereditary fertility problem, then you are just passing your fertility problem on to the next generation (because we don't yet have a way to 'discriminate' between genes to make sure the bad gene isn't hiding in the egg or sperm used in the ivf).
How in the world have you gone through 4.5 years of IF without an HSG?? Get your tubes blown out!
Are they sure the chromosome issue is causing the low count AND the motility? Could there be another cause for the poor motility?0 -
Make a thing on gofundme.com, if you have enough exposure I am sure it will help. There has to be a few people out there who are sympathetic towards your situation. Best of luck.0
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Thank you all VERY much! I truly appreciate all the helpful and sincere comments
You are right, I know he feels like it is "his fault" and I am sure he feels like a failure. I try to tell him it's not one person's fault. We are doing this together.
Your husband's seeming denial about the need to save money may arise from him having emotional issues about being 'defective', or concerns about passing on his problem. He may be thinking that IVF is pointless and won't work for him anyway, and be secretly in despair over this--spending the money could be a way to avoid failing by not having IVF work.
This is kind of what I was going to say. I believe this is the problem. Your husband isn't committing to the saving because he isn't committing to the IVF. You are still trying naturally.....He doesn't want to believe he can't do it on his own. Having to go IVF makes him weaker and less of a man. There have to be a lot of emotional issues tied up in that.
That's nice and sweet of you.....And I really do like your attitude. You seem like a nice girl. But nothing you can say is going to really make him feel better about it or accept it really. That is the thing that makes you a man. The very root of it......To not be able to use it the way it is designed.....It has to be hard. Perhaps he would at least consent to talk to a counselor about the emotional issues/scars tied up in it?
Jack, you are wise.
And OP, I truly do wish you the best of luck. There's nothing wrong with wanting to try and have a child of your own.0 -
If he is always over spending then his pocket money isn't sufficient or they aren't doing a budget together.
I skipped most of the thread but it sounds like she deals with the finances.
Correct.0 -
I just want to clarify that feeling lucky to have a job and attributing your success to luck are two entirely different matters.
This thread has completely drifted. I truly hope the OP finds a resolution and gets the opportunity to create the family she wants.0 -
I'm starting to feel really guilty about my spending habits after seeing everyone question where $100/week goes...
The important thing is that you understand budgets are this tight for a great many people in the US--and even tighter in some other parts of the world.
If you can spend more freely, by all means enjoy your good fortune (pun intended)--but keep compassion for those who can't.
There has been a social tendency in the US lately to "blame" people for their lack of "success" financially, attributing moral faults like "lazyness" etc. which really are not true. Whatever your situation, keep in mind that success means hard work and preparedness, but *also* requires luck.
As an explicit example of luck being required for "success", I once had opportunity to talk with a physician/professor who was on the admissions board of a major medical school. She told me that there are 5 times the number of qualified applicants each year than slots in US medical schools. This means that after they have winnowed down the pool to the group of all people who would be equally good doctors after training, they must still reject 4 out of 5 of them, and that sometimes it felt like their decisions were like throwing darts at a board or picking cards from a pile at random. This means, from the applicant's standpoint, that the applicant could do everything "right" in their academic career--and still have a 4 out of 5 chance of failing to get into any med school at all. These are certainly not lazy or stupid people, and their "failure" to enter that career boils down to sheer unfavorable luck.
So--if you have $100 to spend on a day at the spa, please enjoy the hell out of it for yourself and for all those who can't afford it. And be kind to those who can't afford it.
And if you are ever in a position to give a deserving person the luck element they need, I hope you will jump at the chance to empower them.
Um, no. Success does not require a bit of "luck". People are successful because they work HARD at it. They work 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week. They put all their time, effort and energy into making whatever it is they are doing work.
So much this. I hate it when people say "oh you're so lucky to have a good job"
What the hell ever. It came after working my *kitten* off for years, and I never, EVER have time to do anything, becuase I'm always at work. That's not luck. People that think it's luck are the people that think if they wait around, a good job will just come to them.
I feel lucky to have a good job.
Yes, I work hard at it, but there was a time when I was an over-qualified Wal-mart employee because good jobs are hard to get now-a-days.
Now I have my good job back, and I count my luck and blessings almost daily for it.
I've had rather large sums of money dropped in my lap because I was at the right place at the right time, and I've lost positions because of economic circumstances well beyond my control. I did very well in school because I worked my *kitten* off and continued to work my *kitten* off during my career so I have made plenty of my own luck, but I also think that luck is one of those things that is easy to overstate on either side of this argument. In short, I work hard but I do not pretend to be above being thankful for what I have. I also know it could all be taken away with an accident, a diagnosis, a false accusation, etc. I'm too old to act like I'm bullet proof.0 -
Our insurance will pay a one time $5,000.00 towards IVF. They do offer a third party loan. We dont really want to go that route as there will be interest (probably high) To be honest, I dont really want to go abroad for IVF though it may be cheaper. Congrats on your daughter! Babies truly are miracles! Thanks!Does your fertility clinic offer payment plans? Many of them do. They typically use a third party to manage these. I haven't read most suggestions but agree with pps that setting up an automatic deduction would be useful, or simply putting it on a credit card and paying it off over time. Explore cheaper options such as going abroad (seriously, many find it's worth it to go to Czechoslovakia--still cheaper even with plane tickets and hotels) or even moving to a state and/or job that covers it, even partially, through insurance.
We did IVF and I'm typing this while my baby daughter naps. It was worth every penny. We were lucky in that my insurance covered part of it and we had savings already to cover the rest. But it's a difficult financial burden nonetheless and I wish you all the luck in the world!0 -
Why not adopt some of the millions of babies out there that need you instead of making more mouths to feed?
Thats what I said. It got ignored by the OP
Because it's rude, and ignorant....Why should infertile people be chastised for wanting biological babies, and doing what they have to do to try and get them?
^SO MUCH THIS.
Cali, go back and read my response on page 7.
I quoted with the 'ignored' part.
My original suggestion of adoption was more tactful.
As I said previously, I'm not anti-IVF. I suggested adoption because not everyone thinks of it. And the OP addressed it, adoption is next if IVF doesn't work. Or they may adopt even if it does.
Yeah, regardless, unless you're their doctor or therapist, I think it's rude and tactless to suggest adoption to someone dealing with IF. It's not a big deal. I say rude sh1t all the time without thinking about it, and I know that most people who have never dealt with IF probably don't see why it's insensitive. Which is why I agreed when it was pointed out. But I don't want to debate it or anything. It's impolite, even if the OP is super gracious and wasn't bothered by it.0 -
I will check it out. Thanks!If anyone has suggestions for me, please share. My husband and I have been trying to conceive for about 4 1/2 years. Our next route is IVF due to fertility issues. IVF costs $21,000.00. So, my husband and I decided we need to buckle down and start saving so we can do the IVF a year from now. The problem is, he keeps spending money. We both are ready to do this and wish it would just happen naturally, but it hasn't. He knows we need to save money and he wants to save money, but he spends money a lot easier than I do. I feel like I am a NAG constantly telling him "we need to start saving money, we don't really need that do we?" I feel like I am constantly nagging him about spending money. Yes, I may be getting a little overwhelmed and obsessive but if we want to do this, we need to start saving. We keep talking about it but can't seam to start saving. Any suggestions on how I can get him to stop spending money without being a total nag??? PLEASE HELP! He does get a weekly allowance of $100.00 and has a credit card for gas for work. But just yesterday he transferred $100.00 from our savings to his account....
I started using YNAB (You Need A Budget) two years ago. You can Google the website. They have a free ebook, training, and videos describing the process. It's the lifestyle change for your budget that MFP is to your body.
It's the first budgeting system we've ever gotten to work. I mostly manage it but we both track our spending through it. There is an app you can get and we have both the desktop app as well as the mobile apps to track our spending. The advantage is we're always on the same page and all our spending becomes very visible.
It took a little bit before my wife really bought in but it didn't take long before she noticed it really working. Part of the plan is both partners need to take responsibility for allocating the budget each month. In our house, she wasn't as interested so she deferred to me to use my judgement. When she has a concern I work it into the budget as best as I can and that keeps us both happy.
She used to manage the money but since I started YNAB she's been more than happy to let me take over as the results are speaking for themselves. Once the dollars are allocated, the system is impartial so there really aren't any hurt feelings. If she wants more to do something and it's just not there I sit her down and show her. "I can give you $10 for your project but I have to take it from one of the other budget categories. Which one should I take it from?"
I strongly suggest checking it out because it would help you reach your goal in a sane way that will hopefully reduce conflict.0 -
I just want to clarify that feeling lucky to have a job and attributing your success to luck are two entirely different matters.
This thread has completely drifted. I truly hope the OP finds a resolution and gets the opportunity to create the family she wants.
This.0 -
Just thought I'd put this out there...It will cost an estimated $241,080 for a middle-income couple to raise a child born last year for 18 years, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture report released Wednesday. That's up almost 3% from 2011 and doesn't even include the cost of college.
That averages out to approximately 13,393 a year.
The money you need to save for IVF is really not much more than you will end up spending *on average in baby supplies, furniture, clothes, food, toys, education, not to mention loss of wages due to childbirth, etc.
If you look at it in terms of cost... the amount you will need to adjust your current lifestyle in order to be able to achieve the IVF, is likely similar to the adjustment long term.
If your husband is not able to curb his spending now, you both need to remember that this is not a short term expenditure, and you both need to evaluate that the sacrifices required to save for IVF are on par with the sacrifices that will continue on every single year thereafter.
That said,
Good luck.0 -
I've had rather large sums of money dropped in my lap because I was at the right place at the right time, and I've lost positions because of economic circumstances well beyond my control. I did very well in school because I worked my *kitten* off and continued to work my *kitten* off during my career so I have made plenty of my own luck, but I also think that luck is one of those things that is easy to overstate on either side of this argument. In short, I work hard but I do not pretend to be above being thankful for what I have. I also know it could all be taken away with an accident, a diagnosis, a false accusation, etc. I'm too old to act like I'm bullet proof.
Well said... per the usual, sir
Edited to shorten all that quoting non-sense...0 -
$100.00 a week ain't shlt................0
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What is kind of funny is that financial issues are no different than fitness ones really. If your spending goes over what you have budgeted you will go into debt (or in this case not be able to save), just like you go over the calories you have budgeted you will gain weight. I find it very interesting that some people can be super disciplined in one area, but suck at the other. As far as money goes, I could go forever sticking to that budget and never go over... but I am not as successful with food.
Just like fitness though, you can't nag someone into getting into being financially fit. They will either want to change themselves and dig down and find the discipline to do it or they won't.
And this, big time. You have to want to do it. And not just say you want to, but want to enough that everyday, you wake up and make the choice to save your money. If you don't have a budgeting app, get one. Get it set up with info for the last few months and then show him the pie charts and graphs so you can both see where your money is going and what is preventing you from saving.
I will cease my usual derp to add to this really excellent point.
I admit I sometimes have spending problems when I'm experiencing mania (the rush of buying THINGS can be really awesome when I'm not thinking clearly). I know how to budget, I am on mint.com at least an hour a day monitoring things, and I generally don't let it get out of hand but I know that I need a little more wiggle room in my budget because I make dumb decisions sometimes.
I say this because an important part of budgeting includes being *realistic*, and while in my opinion her husband is spending money on really stupid things, if he needs over $100 to do his thing he needs over $100. Should he be spending less to accommodate for the IVF? Sure, but then again he does make his own money and there can be a balance between saving and spending on things purely for enjoyment. I think OP would not be completely truthful if she said she didn't spend money on anything beyond basic necessities. If this means saving $21,000 in one year is not realistic, they may need to adjust their timeline instead of creating tension and stress over a self-imposed deadline to have a baby.0 -
I have. And because if nature dictates kids are not in your biological future, and everyone that chose IVF adopted instead, there'd be less babies tossed into a dumpster, less kids starving on the streets, and less kids in foster homes.Why not adopt some of the millions of babies out there that need you instead of making more mouths to feed?
Thats what I said. It got ignored by the OP
Because it's rude, and ignorant. Why don't YOU adopt some babies if you feel so strongly about it? Why should infertile people be chastised for wanting biological babies, and doing what they have to do to try and get them?
And before anyone gets all preachy on the cost of adoption vs IVF, I hate to break it to you, but having kids and raising them costs money. One adoption is less expensive (as well as less stress on body and mind) than several treatments that are not guarenteed to work.0
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