Nagging about saving money for IVF
Replies
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Having kids isn't a selfish act. It's a biological imperative that is one of the five things defining living organisms from the non-living. It's right up there with consuming energy and maintaining homeostasis.
Sure it is. But so is not having them.
The issue lies, she is being selfish but so is her husband. The problem is the two of them together on this issue are incongruent.
She wants’ them i.e. her actions, he doesn’t i.e. his actions.
They can get on the same page and move forward, or not. It is as simple as that. Everything outside of that is irrelevant.0 -
Did like the part where people said "its selfish to not have children" "because your daddy ****ed you up you don't want kids".
this is keeping me well amused for the day0 -
Did like the part where people said "its selfish to not have children" "because your daddy ****ed you up you don't want kids".
this is keeping me well amused for the day
LOL. I know right?
My daddy didn't f-me up and I don't want nor am I having children. Although I probably am selfish because 1) I don't like them and 2) I really, really like the vacations we go on. Oh, and the disposable income we have. And being able to take naps when I want, and go where I want, and do what I want . . . .0 -
Did like the part where people said "its selfish to not have children" "because your daddy ****ed you up you don't want kids".
this is keeping me well amused for the day
LOL. I know right?
My daddy didn't f-me up and I don't want nor am I having children. Although I probably am selfish because 1) I don't like them and 2) I really, really like the vacations we go on. Oh, and the disposable income we have. And being able to take naps when I want, and go where I want, and do what I want . . . .
yeah for fellow high brain functioning people
Some of the pro babies arguments have been amusing.
I personally come from a very good family, have a successful career, children love me and I them.
that said I like my own time and money--- That's it, the only reason I don't want kids0 -
Did like the part where people said "its selfish to not have children" "because your daddy ****ed you up you don't want kids".
this is keeping me well amused for the day
LOL. I know right?
My daddy didn't f-me up and I don't want nor am I having children. Although I probably am selfish because 1) I don't like them and 2) I really, really like the vacations we go on. Oh, and the disposable income we have. And being able to take naps when I want, and go where I want, and do what I want . . . .
That insult was actually aimed at me as I posted this:
So I'm wondering if all those people who say children ruin your life have children? If not, how can you be an expert about something you have no personal experience with?
Well, as I was told by my father several times growing up; I was an accident, and I ruined his life.... I just took his word for it. Kids are bad m'kay?0 -
I would never expect to hear a thank you from my kid regarding being adopted, but the fact is adoption saves lives. If you haven't seen the way the majority of the world's children that await a family are living, it isn't much better than the conditions of a rescue shelter.So adopting a child isn't rescuing them from the burdens and heartache of a parentless and loveless life? Saving them from foster care, the streets, and helping to instill family values and bonding?
How motherly of you to pass on all the lemons because you want a "regular" life.
Well, that's a gross misinterpretation of what I said, but ok. You clearly aren't interested in anything other than being smug because you successfully adopted and "saved a life".
My point, again, in regards to that is I wasn't going through the process to get a pat on the back for being a hero and "rescuing" a baby, and I don't feel that's really a healthy attitude to have when raising a child, like they're supposed to be grateful to you forever because you picked them up off the curb and took them in out of the magnanimous goodness of your heart. I just wanted a baby, but they pretty well scared us into giving up by the time the process was three quarters finished with horror stories of what we'd be in for.
Maybe it's better that you got scared off from adopting though. If not, you may have instilled the notion in your kids that if something isn't just perfect enough, fear should stop you from persuing it.0 -
In....to catch up on.0
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It seems to me that people seem to have forgotten that the OP asked for opinions concerning financial advice... not everything else since those decisions were made already..?
Let's talk about the money again!
So I'll throw out more ideas:
- Look into mystery shopping. You won't earn much but maybe you'd get a chance to shop for groceries and have some of them paid for by someone else.
- For the internet on your phone - I totally just pay for talk and unlimited text and I grab my bf's phone when I want to use data. Could you use his or vice versa instead of having the capability on both?
- Could you check with your hubby to see if he'd be willing to watch sports at a friend's house and downgrade your cable (but it's ok if not)
- When you're shopping for groceries, could you buy discount gift cards from cardpool.com or something first so that you can save some amount of cash on something you'd buy anyway?
- I do like the idea of a college student renting a room - you charge for room and food and they're gone in 8 months so it temporary which is nice
- do you have any STUFF that you honestly don't need or want that you could sell? It'd be nice to make room for the baby stuff anyhow, right?
- do you currently own two cars? Can you potentially go down to one? You'd get the cash for the one car and save on that gas too. You might have to take groceries on the bus or use a bike with a basket for groceries and make more trips.
I'll let you know if I can think of anything else.
Not all these things are going to be possible but maybe put some together and it'll help out 0 -
I would never expect to hear a thank you from my kid regarding being adopted, but the fact is adoption saves lives. If you haven't seen the way the majority of the world's children that await a family are living, it isn't much better than the conditions of a rescue shelter.So adopting a child isn't rescuing them from the burdens and heartache of a parentless and loveless life? Saving them from foster care, the streets, and helping to instill family values and bonding?
How motherly of you to pass on all the lemons because you want a "regular" life.
Well, that's a gross misinterpretation of what I said, but ok. You clearly aren't interested in anything other than being smug because you successfully adopted and "saved a life".
My point, again, in regards to that is I wasn't going through the process to get a pat on the back for being a hero and "rescuing" a baby, and I don't feel that's really a healthy attitude to have when raising a child, like they're supposed to be grateful to you forever because you picked them up off the curb and took them in out of the magnanimous goodness of your heart. I just wanted a baby, but they pretty well scared us into giving up by the time the process was three quarters finished with horror stories of what we'd be in for.
Maybe it's better that you got scared off from adopting though. If not, you may have instilled the notion in your kids that if something isn't just perfect enough, fear should stop you from persuing it.
LOL ok.0 -
Maybe it's better that you got scared off from adopting though. If not, you may have instilled the notion in your kids that if something isn't just perfect enough, fear should stop you from perusing it.
Damn that’s Deep!
Now we are going into societal issues, this thread has turned out impeccable.
Because you know, if you can’t win don’t play. Or if you lose you should beat them up or sue them. Or everyone should get a trophy. Or if it’s not going your way quit. If it’s too hard don’t do it. It’s not your fault it’s never your fault it’s ok someone else will pay for it.0 -
Did like the part where people said "its selfish to not have children" "because your daddy ****ed you up you don't want kids".
this is keeping me well amused for the day
LOL. I know right?
My daddy didn't f-me up and I don't want nor am I having children. Although I probably am selfish because 1) I don't like them and 2) I really, really like the vacations we go on. Oh, and the disposable income we have. And being able to take naps when I want, and go where I want, and do what I want . . . .
That insult was actually aimed at me as I posted this:
So I'm wondering if all those people who say children ruin your life have children? If not, how can you be an expert about something you have no personal experience with?
Well, as I was told by my father several times growing up; I was an accident, and I ruined his life.... I just took his word for it. Kids are bad m'kay?
And I am betting your dad did not realize this would have such a dramatic effect. seeing how most parents act in public it is pretty easy for words to be said to children that leave an impression.
I don't think that anyone has not had their parents say something awful to them at some point.0 -
I'm still not getting how that's selfless... that's me me me me me I"LL DO ANYTHING. That has nothing to do with doing something for someone else- it's completely about doing it because that is what you want. I am in no way judging you- or thinking you're doing the wrong thing- but I am pointing out- it is selfish.LOL! I am being SELFLESS!!! You think its fun taking medications that make you crazy, giving yourself shots, going to apt's every other day? Not really, but you know what? I will do Anything to carry a child in this world. If it doesn't work with IVF, maybe its not meant to be. But no, nothing wrong with being SELFLESS
Definition of selfless: concerned more with the needs and wishes of others than with one's own. If the wish to get pregnant was a friend or other family member's and not your own - that is selfless. But since it is your own and you will "do anything", this is a selfish act. Having kids is always selfish because it's almost always your own wish.0 -
It seems to me that people seem to have forgotten that the OP asked for opinions concerning financial advice... not everything else since those decisions were made already..?
Yes, but the root of the financial issue is a relationship one. So the derailment was actually the intended track of this train.0 -
Did like the part where people said "its selfish to not have children" "because your daddy ****ed you up you don't want kids".
this is keeping me well amused for the day
LOL. I know right?
My daddy didn't f-me up and I don't want nor am I having children. Although I probably am selfish because 1) I don't like them and 2) I really, really like the vacations we go on. Oh, and the disposable income we have. And being able to take naps when I want, and go where I want, and do what I want . . . .
That insult was actually aimed at me as I posted this:
So I'm wondering if all those people who say children ruin your life have children? If not, how can you be an expert about something you have no personal experience with?
Well, as I was told by my father several times growing up; I was an accident, and I ruined his life.... I just took his word for it. Kids are bad m'kay?
And I am betting your dad did not realize this would have such a dramatic effect. seeing how most parents act in public it is pretty easy for words to be said to children that leave an impression.
I don't think that anyone has not had their parents say something awful to them at some point.
Actually there was a lot of mental and physical abuse in my home growing up, but I've come to terms with it and actually have a good relationship with my family these days. I was simply proving a point earlier regarding a comment that had been said.0 -
It seems to me that people seem to have forgotten that the OP asked for opinions concerning financial advice... not everything else since those decisions were made already..?
Yes, but the root of the financial issue is a relationship one. So the derailment was actually the intended track of this train.
I suppose I can't judge on that... but I just thought it might be a good idea to talk about the other theme as well.0 -
As someone who is infertile, I can only say - people need to stay the hell out of everyone's business, honestly. If people get pregnant and have a child, how fantastic. If people adopt and give a loving home to a child, fantastic. If people want to go the medical route and try to establish a pregnancy, fantastic.
Every person has a different approach, and nobody should judge them for it, regardless of what way they are going. Medical procedures are not easy and very hard on people mentally, they shouldn't be made to feel like they are inadequate or wrong.
I've had plenty of people nagging me about adoption, quite literally as if children were stray pets on the street.
This is for me and my husband to decide, and whatever we will decide (childless/adoption), I will not take judgement from people.
AMEN!! Very well said!!:bigsmile:0 -
It seems to me that people seem to have forgotten that the OP asked for opinions concerning financial advice... not everything else since those decisions were made already..?
Yes, but the root of the financial issue is a relationship one. So the derailment was actually the intended track of this train.
I suppose I can't judge on that... but I just thought it might be a good idea to talk about the other theme as well.
Well intentions but I feel as if the underlying issue is resolved the financial one will correct itself on its own.0 -
I'm still not getting how that's selfless... that's me me me me me I"LL DO ANYTHING. That has nothing to do with doing something for someone else- it's completely about doing it because that is what you want. I am in no way judging you- or thinking you're doing the wrong thing- but I am pointing out- it is selfish.LOL! I am being SELFLESS!!! You think its fun taking medications that make you crazy, giving yourself shots, going to apt's every other day? Not really, but you know what? I will do Anything to carry a child in this world. If it doesn't work with IVF, maybe its not meant to be. But no, nothing wrong with being SELFLESS
Definition of selfless: concerned more with the needs and wishes of others than with one's own. If the wish to get pregnant was a friend or other family member's and not your own - that is selfless. But since it is your own and you will "do anything", this is a selfish act. Having kids is always selfish because it's almost always your own wish.
I have a feeling that she meant selfish but I could be wrong. And again being selfish is ok whether it's to have children no matter how you have them or to not have them is totally fine to.0 -
bump0
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As someone who is infertile, I can only say - people need to stay the hell out of everyone's business, honestly. If people get pregnant and have a child, how fantastic. If people adopt and give a loving home to a child, fantastic. If people want to go the medical route and try to establish a pregnancy, fantastic.
Every person has a different approach, and nobody should judge them for it, regardless of what way they are going. Medical procedures are not easy and very hard on people mentally, they shouldn't be made to feel like they are inadequate or wrong.
I've had plenty of people nagging me about adoption, quite literally as if children were stray pets on the street.
This is for me and my husband to decide, and whatever we will decide (childless/adoption), I will not take judgement from people.
She came on the internet and asked a question that involved the fact that she wanted to become pregnant through IVF.
So yes people are going to judge and give opinions about the entire situation. She shouldn't have posted if she didn't want to hear it.0 -
As someone who is infertile, I can only say - people need to stay the hell out of everyone's business, honestly. If people get pregnant and have a child, how fantastic. If people adopt and give a loving home to a child, fantastic. If people want to go the medical route and try to establish a pregnancy, fantastic.
Every person has a different approach, and nobody should judge them for it, regardless of what way they are going. Medical procedures are not easy and very hard on people mentally, they shouldn't be made to feel like they are inadequate or wrong.
I've had plenty of people nagging me about adoption, quite literally as if children were stray pets on the street.
This is for me and my husband to decide, and whatever we will decide (childless/adoption), I will not take judgement from people.
She came on the internet and asked a question that involved the fact that she wanted to become pregnant through IVF.
So yes people are going to judge and give opinions about the entire situation. She shouldn't have posted if she didn't want to hear it.
True, I probably would have left out the IVF as it's no one else's business and just asked how to help save up differently then they are doing now because being that this is the internet people will give you opinions on things whether you want them or not and that's the risk you run posting on a public forum unfortunately.0 -
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I'm still not getting how that's selfless... that's me me me me me I"LL DO ANYTHING. That has nothing to do with doing something for someone else- it's completely about doing it because that is what you want. I am in no way judging you- or thinking you're doing the wrong thing- but I am pointing out- it is selfish.LOL! I am being SELFLESS!!! You think its fun taking medications that make you crazy, giving yourself shots, going to apt's every other day? Not really, but you know what? I will do Anything to carry a child in this world. If it doesn't work with IVF, maybe its not meant to be. But no, nothing wrong with being SELFLESSAs someone who is infertile, I can only say - people need to stay the hell out of everyone's business, honestly. If people get pregnant and have a child, how fantastic. If people adopt and give a loving home to a child, fantastic. If people want to go the medical route and try to establish a pregnancy, fantastic.
Every person has a different approach, and nobody should judge them for it, regardless of what way they are going. Medical procedures are not easy and very hard on people mentally, they shouldn't be made to feel like they are inadequate or wrong.
I've had plenty of people nagging me about adoption, quite literally as if children were stray pets on the street.
This is for me and my husband to decide, and whatever we will decide (childless/adoption), I will not take judgement from people.
then you probably won't be posting on a public forum then (which is wise- because I agree with you fully)
but when you do... then- well it's fair game.
Having kids isn't a selfish act. It's a biological imperative that is one of the five things defining living organisms from the non-living. It's right up there with consuming energy and maintaining homeostasis.
Wut?
Putting your life on the line and putting all of your personal needs to the side to bring another person into the world is not selfish. Having children is not selfish unless you take somebody else's kid with out their consent. It's not selfless either. It's just part of being alive.
Eating when you are hungry is not selfish unless you are taking food from somebody else. It's not selfless. It just is part of living.
Seeking warmth when you are going to die of hypothermia isn't selfish (unless you are taking heat from somebody else). It's not selfless. It just is part of life.
Reproduction is a biological imperative. We don't, of course, HAVE to reproduce. We can choose to diet as well. But it's an organism-level activity. It isn't necessarily a choice in the way selecting a car or choosing to rent or buy is a choice.0 -
I'm still not getting how that's selfless... that's me me me me me I"LL DO ANYTHING. That has nothing to do with doing something for someone else- it's completely about doing it because that is what you want. I am in no way judging you- or thinking you're doing the wrong thing- but I am pointing out- it is selfish.LOL! I am being SELFLESS!!! You think its fun taking medications that make you crazy, giving yourself shots, going to apt's every other day? Not really, but you know what? I will do Anything to carry a child in this world. If it doesn't work with IVF, maybe its not meant to be. But no, nothing wrong with being SELFLESSAs someone who is infertile, I can only say - people need to stay the hell out of everyone's business, honestly. If people get pregnant and have a child, how fantastic. If people adopt and give a loving home to a child, fantastic. If people want to go the medical route and try to establish a pregnancy, fantastic.
Every person has a different approach, and nobody should judge them for it, regardless of what way they are going. Medical procedures are not easy and very hard on people mentally, they shouldn't be made to feel like they are inadequate or wrong.
I've had plenty of people nagging me about adoption, quite literally as if children were stray pets on the street.
This is for me and my husband to decide, and whatever we will decide (childless/adoption), I will not take judgement from people.
then you probably won't be posting on a public forum then (which is wise- because I agree with you fully)
but when you do... then- well it's fair game.
Having kids isn't a selfish act. It's a biological imperative that is one of the five things defining living organisms from the non-living. It's right up there with consuming energy and maintaining homeostasis.
Wut?
Putting your life on the line and putting all of your personal needs to the side to bring another person into the world is not selfish. Having children is not selfish unless you take somebody else's kid with out their consent. It's not selfless either. It's just part of being alive.
Eating when you are hungry is not selfish unless you are taking food from somebody else. It's not selfless. It just is part of living.
Seeking warmth when you are going to die of hypothermia isn't selfish (unless you are taking heat from somebody else). It's not selfless. It just is part of life.
Reproduction is a biological imperative. We don't, of course, HAVE to reproduce. We can choose to diet as well. But it's an organism-level activity. It isn't necessarily a choice in the way selecting a car or choosing to rent or buy is a choice.
The 'Wut' was about that whole .. reproduction, homeostasis, and consuming energy bit. Not about the nature of selfish vs selfless. ****, even charity is a selfish act. You give because it makes you feel like a better person. There's no such thing as selfless.0 -
It seems to me that people seem to have forgotten that the OP asked for opinions concerning financial advice... not everything else since those decisions were made already..?
Yes, but the root of the financial issue is a relationship one. So the derailment was actually the intended track of this train.
I suppose I can't judge on that... but I just thought it might be a good idea to talk about the other theme as well.
Well intentions but I feel as if the underlying issue is resolved the financial one will correct itself on its own.
But most people here are saying she should discuss their goals with her husband. I agree but it's always good to come to the table with some practical ideas so that you're not both sitting there with "I don't know how to fix this" looks on your face. Based on a post I made earlier and her PM to me, she likes the idea of the cash envelopes and is intending on running the idea past him. So that's a start. This way, she will be more prepared to move forward - to discuss relationship if he's hesitant or to discuss money if he's willing.0 -
It seems to me that people seem to have forgotten that the OP asked for opinions concerning financial advice... not everything else since those decisions were made already..?
Yes, but the root of the financial issue is a relationship one. So the derailment was actually the intended track of this train.
I suppose I can't judge on that... but I just thought it might be a good idea to talk about the other theme as well.
Well intentions but I feel as if the underlying issue is resolved the financial one will correct itself on its own.
But most people here are saying she should discuss their goals with her husband. I agree but it's always good to come to the table with some practical ideas so that you're not both sitting there with "I don't know how to fix this" looks on your face. Based on a post I made earlier and her PM to me, she likes the idea of the cash envelopes and is intending on running the idea past him. So that's a start. This way, she will be more prepared to move forward - to discuss relationship if he's hesitant or to discuss money if he's willing.
oh, but it is much more fun to bash her, deem her as pig headed and selfish, and assume their marriage is falling apart and they shouldn't breed.
/sarc
Sometimes, a discussion is best held when you have a few possible solutions in mind. The OP has gotten a lot of those and now she and her hubby can sit down and discuss options together.
If I were here, would I have posted this thread? Hell no! But she did, and has been pretty decent at managing the "non snarky feedback" she's received. (Because no one on this thread has been in any way unkind, rude, or sarcastic. /sarc)0 -
Finally read every post, here's my take for what it's worth......
OP some great ideas were in this thread, most importantly talking with your husband about why his actions are not reflecting his desires.
As for IVF my sister and her husband tried conceiving for 7 years, she has no physical issues and he had a poor sperm count. He wanted a child more than anything. They tried AI, didn't work. Then they tried IVF, it almost destroyed them....her mood became awful, she constantly felt sick. Without meaning too, some resentment built up because she was suffering for their dream due to his medical issue. After years of IVF and false hopes they gave up. Sperm banks were brought up but he didn't want the kids to be hers and not his. He didn't want to adopt at first because he wanted "his" own kids. They finally did go for adoption, when she explained IVF was not going to happen again, she couldn't handle it and it made her miserable. Long story short they adopted through the state. It took about 10 months before they got my nephew at 5 months old, just this year (year later) they adopted my beautiful neice at 2 months old but with her my sister even got to have a hospital stay and share a postpartum room with my neice. The hardest thing was coming home without her, but legalities forced a 2 month wait. They have a beautiful family and both of those babies are their "own". I have never seen my BIL happier.
Moral of the story, adopting is a great choice and if financially saving for conception is driving you to seek advice on your husband, IVF is incredibly straining on a relationship. You both may need time off from baby planning and then figure out the financial part after that your relationship will have better odds of standing up to IVF.0
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