Judging people and their weight
Replies
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Oh good god. There are medications which increase weight - Zyprexa is a poster child for this, though many antidepressants and antipsychotics are on the list too (some have already been named). The simple fact is they do not know WHY the meds cause weight gain beyond increase in appetite. Some are thought to reduce the metabolism. Some directly screw with blood sugar and other factors, which compound the weight loss troubles. So does the med "cause" weight gain? No, not directly, and no it does not cause someone who is in a deficit to magically gain weight.
What it CAN do is slow the metabolism enough that a person who was previously in a deficit now isn't. That person gets to now choose between gaining weight on the med, quitting the med altogether (which may not be an immediate option), or eating ridiculously scant amounts of food. I have been on meds that slow metabolism (confirmed by RMR testing before and after). In order to MAINTAIN, I would have had to be eating around 900-1000 calories per day. To LOSE, I would have had to practically starve myself. Now, due to the medical issues I was bedridden so my numbers are lower, but it is still illustrative of the choice some people on medications have to make.
Did the med cause us to gain directly? No, but it left us with a really crappy choice to make. Did I choose to eat 1400 calories per day and gain over a pound a week? I suppose I did, but the alternative wasn't really an option at the time.
ETA link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1635794/In some patients, depression itself is associated with weight gain. This is compounded by treatment side effects, which may include a decrease in basal metabolic rate in addition to an increase in appetite and carbohydrate craving. An increase in weight is associated with type-II diabetes and possible insulin resistance.
Appetite, no doubt. But changes in BMR too.
Read the PDF I posted and the other long post. It will explain in detail why antidepressants cause/lead to weight gain.
I've read it, and I hear you. I think a lot of the argument is in wording - "name one medication that causes weight gain even in a caloric deficit" (paraphrasing from the question raised by a few) Well, the answer is none technically, but rather that the medication causes a change in what that deficit is for a person, and therefore said person ceases to lose weight (or starts gaining). Even with the research done into effects on the HPA axis and all that, it is still not very well understood and it's not clear why some people experience such a dramatic gain while others don't have issues - different body chemistry, of course, but what about it that alters the severity of side effects is unclear.0 -
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Bump0
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Oh good god. There are medications which increase weight - Zyprexa is a poster child for this, though many antidepressants and antipsychotics are on the list too (some have already been named). The simple fact is they do not know WHY the meds cause weight gain beyond increase in appetite. Some are thought to reduce the metabolism. Some directly screw with blood sugar and other factors, which compound the weight loss troubles. So does the med "cause" weight gain? No, not directly, and no it does not cause someone who is in a deficit to magically gain weight.
What it CAN do is slow the metabolism enough that a person who was previously in a deficit now isn't. That person gets to now choose between gaining weight on the med, quitting the med altogether (which may not be an immediate option), or eating ridiculously scant amounts of food. I have been on meds that slow metabolism (confirmed by RMR testing before and after). In order to MAINTAIN, I would have had to be eating around 900-1000 calories per day. To LOSE, I would have had to practically starve myself. Now, due to the medical issues I was bedridden so my numbers are lower, but it is still illustrative of the choice some people on medications have to make.
Did the med cause us to gain directly? No, but it left us with a really crappy choice to make. Did I choose to eat 1400 calories per day and gain over a pound a week? I suppose I did, but the alternative wasn't really an option at the time.
ETA link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1635794/In some patients, depression itself is associated with weight gain. This is compounded by treatment side effects, which may include a decrease in basal metabolic rate in addition to an increase in appetite and carbohydrate craving. An increase in weight is associated with type-II diabetes and possible insulin resistance.
Appetite, no doubt. But changes in BMR too.
Read the PDF I posted and the other long post. It will explain in detail why antidepressants cause/lead to weight gain.
I've read it, and I hear you. I think a lot of the argument is in wording - "name one medication that causes weight gain even in a caloric deficit" (paraphrasing from the question raised by a few) Well, the answer is none technically, but rather that the medication causes a change in what that deficit is for a person, and therefore said person ceases to lose weight (or starts gaining). Even with the research done into effects on the HPA axis and all that, it is still not very well understood and it's not clear why some people experience such a dramatic gain while others don't have issues - different body chemistry, of course, but what about it that alters the severity of side effects is unclear.
I agree! It is not black and white. There simply isn't enough known regarding why people gain 50-100+ lbs after starting antidepressants.0 -
You entire PDF said nothing about how many calories the test subjects in each group ate daily or the exercise regime. There was also no definitive statement as to why people gain weight. But you do see increased appetite.
And if you see the section below especially the one I put in bold, you will see it recommended........caloric restriction.
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR MANAGEMENT
Many patients prematurely discontinue their medication as a result of increased appetite or weight gain and may fall back into depression. On the other hand, fighting weight gain once it has occurred can be very difficult, and it is advisable to consider the likelihood and potential consequences of weight gain when choosing an antidepressant.36,37
Educating the patient about the chances of weight gain as a side effect of treatment and its management is best accomplished through a strong patient-physician alliance and is integral to positive outcome.
Preventing weight gain in patients on antidepressants is the ideal strategy. It typically involves caloric restriction and increased caloric expenditure through aerobic exercise. 1 Patients may benefit from a nutritional consultation and participation in a low-cost commercial weight-loss program. Individuals can be asked to record weekly weights, and thus both clinician and patient can be alerted to small increases in weight before the problem becomes too difficult. Maintaining a food diary and behavioral techniques such as increasing meal frequency, smaller meals, or decreasing the pace of eating can help.
And then what do you do when the amount of caloric restriction required is not realistic? The person has to choose between weight and treatment for whatever disorder they have. Yes, it's a choice, but a really crappy one.0 -
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Bologna. It's one of the last acceptable reasons to jeer at someone, discriminate against people, charge them more for clothing or seating, refuse to hire them, ask them probing questions (happened to me at a job interview)...the simple fact that America is very accepting of obesity.
So when you realized that taking those drugs meant your body needed less food, you chose to keep eating the same amount of food, right?Food is not the only reason people gain weight and to think that is very narrow-minded. I personally gained weight from medication
Change how much you eat. Weight gain comes from taking in more calories than your body burns, no matter the reason for the decrease in metabolism.I wish I could find the reason why I look the way I do. Wish I could find the solution.
Stop eating your exercise calories.what I did was figure out my TDEE which is like 2500 something and decided to eat below that but still somewhere where I'm not ravenously hungry all the time. MFP set the calories at 1770 and I'm eating back some of my exercise calories
Find a healthy goal weight based on BMI (here's a chart: http://www.shapeup.org/bmi/bmi6.pdf ).
Multiply that times 10 and you have your goal calories in order to lose weight. (This is what my doctor & dietician do.)
Don't go below 1200.
Start low & slow. Find your 1-repetition maximum and lift at maybe 30-40% of that.I'm honestly worried about doing any strength training because of chronic pain
If it seems light, increase by 5 lb until you're at light effort.
(For most people, they should be lifting at 80% of their 1RM.)
Those may alter the metabolism or hunger signals, but what causes weight gain is eating more than the body burns. If someone is on a medicine which slows metabolism or increases hunger, or has one of those diseases which alters metabolism, they need to change how they eat.There are a number of medical conditions that can make a person obese
I haven't lost due to taking drugs, I've lost because the drug helped me control my appetite so I could eat a normal amount of food, plus exercising nearly every day.Picking on people who gained due to drugs is no better than picking on people who lost due to drugs
In other words, taking in fewer calories than I burned... which is what causes weight loss.0 -
Bologna. It's one of the last acceptable reasons to jeer at someone, discriminate against people, charge them more for clothing or seating, refuse to hire them, ask them probing questions (happened to me at a job interview)...the simple fact that America is very accepting of obesity.
So when you realized that taking those drugs meant your body needed less food, you chose to keep eating the same amount of food, right?Food is not the only reason people gain weight and to think that is very narrow-minded. I personally gained weight from medication
Change how much you eat. Weight gain comes from taking in more calories than your body burns, no matter the reason for the decrease in metabolism.I wish I could find the reason why I look the way I do. Wish I could find the solution.
Stop eating your exercise calories.what I did was figure out my TDEE which is like 2500 something and decided to eat below that but still somewhere where I'm not ravenously hungry all the time. MFP set the calories at 1770 and I'm eating back some of my exercise calories
Find a healthy goal weight based on BMI (here's a chart: http://www.shapeup.org/bmi/bmi6.pdf ).
Multiply that times 10 and you have your goal calories in order to lose weight. (This is what my doctor & dietician do.)
Don't go below 1200.
Start low & slow. Find your 1-repetition maximum and lift at maybe 30-40% of that.I'm honestly worried about doing any strength training because of chronic pain
If it seems light, increase by 5 lb until you're at light effort.
(For most people, they should be lifting at 80% of their 1RM.)
Those may alter the metabolism or hunger signals, but what causes weight gain is eating more than the body burns. If someone is on a medicine which slows metabolism or increases hunger, or has one of those diseases which alters metabolism, they need to change how they eat.There are a number of medical conditions that can make a person obese
I haven't lost due to taking drugs, I've lost because the drug helped me control my appetite so I could eat a normal amount of food, plus exercising nearly every day.Picking on people who gained due to drugs is no better than picking on people who lost due to drugs
In other words, taking in fewer calories than I burned... which is what causes weight loss.
Yeah, I'm screwing with my diet/exercise to figure out what's going to work. I'm really trying to listen to my body, eat when I'm hungry, and plan better. I know from experience that if its too restrictive I'm not going to stick to it.
Does pushing a 40lb toddler in a stroller uphill count as strength training? Lol0 -
However, saying: Just try harder to eat less calories/exercise more and you will lose weight is way too simplistic an answer to a complicated human issue.
For many people, you are probably right. But allowing that he or she does not have a choice, is powerless, isn't true and seems to me to be even worse, since it plays into the belief in his or her own powerlessness that is probably holding that person back (assuming that the person actually does want to make the changes necessary for weight loss--not everyone does, and IMO that's okay--that person shouldn't be "blamed" or "shamed" either, which is why the whole thing about how some fat people are "innocent" seems to me to miss the point). Better to give the tools or at least let the person know the tools are out there.
I think your examples are interesting, and I'd say the same thing about them. It's harder for some than others, but in ALL of these cases people are making choices and would be better off if they followed the advice and, IMO, do have the power to follow the advice. Indeed, I think it's interesting you chose these examples, because while I don't actually understand getting angry at people for not being fit (what business is it of ours if the person prioritizes other things) I may be a hypocrite, because I do get angry or frustrated about claims of powerlessness about some of these other things.And it doesn't just apply to weight loss.
Just try harder to spend less or bring in more income and you won't be in debt.
Certainly many people spent more than they should and could choose to spend less.Just get up / leave earlier to get place on time.
Well, yeah. I think habitually not being on time is usually a choice, one that is rather inconsiderate of others.Just study harder and you will get better grades.
Again, seems like good advice. Not everyone will be able to get As, but trying and studying seems obviously worth doing and better than the alternative and it always seems to me that a lot of people do poorly in school or are ignorant as adults because they don't bother trying, even a little, which makes me impatient. Accepting this seems to encourage it, and maybe having higher standards would be better. I give a pass to some extent on what kids do, because they don't know better, but adults should.Just think before you speak and you won't hurt people so much.
Again, what's wrong with this? Sure, people screw up and are imperfect, but trying to do better is within our power and likely to lead to better results than just deciding "it's how I am, can't help it."I came here because I decided to make changes and try to figure out how to no longer be fat. For me, I don't want to be just skinny, I want to be fit - weight will come down with that. I am right now only trying to understand how I work. How much calories I need, how much exercise I can handle right now and progressing to be fitter everyday.
I came here for support, information, advice from others who have or still are working on losing weight and getting fitter.
This is great. Me too. I don't perceive this discussion as slamming those who don't have it all figured out yet, but just the idea that people are basically helpless and stuff just happens to them, without them being able to do a thing about it.
I agree with you that the side-argument seems about something else at this point.0 -
re: drugs which cause weight gain even when eating at a caloric deficit, and not because of increasing appetite
(IOW, they break the laws of physics)
Those are page numbers in my drug book.Zoloft 1042 SSRI weight gain/loss
Cymbalta 445 SNRI decreased appetite/weight, anorexia
Prozac 539 SSRI nausea, anorexia, decreased appetite, taste changes
Lexapro 481 SSRI nausea, anorexia, decreased appetite, taste changes
Celexa 311 SSRI nausea, anorexia, decreased appetite, taste changes
Effexor 1174 SNRI nausea, anorexia, taste changes
Pristiq SNRI nausea, loss of appetite, weight loss
Tofranil 628 tricyclic nausea/vomiting, taste change
Propranolol 969 beta blocker n/v/d, stomach cramps & pain, hyper/o glycemia, weight change
So most of those (all but the last) are for treating depression, which is usually associated with weight gain - low energy, self-medicating with food.
Most have the possible side effects of nausea, anorexia, decreased appetite, changes in taste... all of which would cause weight loss.
So that should be a wash.
Only the last could cause weight gain simply because of affecting blood sugar, and even then if the person is eating at a deficit there's no way they could gain weight.
So the question remains unanswered: what medicines cause weight gain while eating at a caloric deficit?0 -
In other words, they're eating more than their body needs.
Increased appetite is only ONE of the reasons some people gain weight on antidepressants. Not everyone experiences that side effect. The main reason people gain weight from them is because antidepressants slow the metabolism and inhibit specific enzymes in the liver that allow the metabolism to function correctly.A decrease in brain glucose will activate other portions of the brain that release proteins, which stimulate food intake. When this happens, an increase in body weight is inevitable at this point.0 -
And then what do you do when the amount of caloric restriction required is not realistic? The person has to choose between weight and treatment for whatever disorder they have. Yes, it's a choice, but a really crappy one.You're asking what if, let's say for example a 5'3" 200 lb woman is on antidepressants has her metabolism affected to the point where it's so low that she can't get proper nutrition with that caloric limit she's given? In the sense where she would have to go VLCD in order to be in a deficit?
If you are you're attempting to lay out the hypothetical that her metabolism is reduced by hundreds. Possibly 500, 600, 1000 calories. That's basically saying the medication is abusing the patient. A bit of an extreme hypothetical imo. I'm not sure I see the meds depressing the metabolism of a person to that point. People around here like to say it did that to them but no one is backing that up. Also remember two factors that go into caloric deficit, caloric restriction and increased energy expenditure.
Well I'm quite a bit taller than that, and wasn't as heavy, but here is my data (from LoseIt!, before MFP, but still a calorie counting app):
I had never once been overweight in my entire life until I started a cocktail of medications. I put my foot down and stopped them in the December right before the graphs start. Steadily losing weight counting calories. Due to a relapse, I was put back on the medications June 23rd (right in the valley of the graph). You can see where I stopped counting calories briefly before going back on the meds since I was doing so well with the weight loss. As SOON as I started gaining, I started counting again. When figuring averages, my average daily intake only increased 60 calories per day, and yet I went from steadily losing to steadily gaining. My total average daily intake was around 1475 (don't remember the exact number, but it was in the high 1400's), which had me gaining almost a pound per week. To maintain, I would be below 1000, and to lose I would have to basically starve. RMR testing before and after being medicated showed an RMR difference of about 400 calories per day, which combined with bed rest during the relapse completely wiped out my deficit and created a surplus. When I was on TPN briefly during my hospital stay, I continued to gain. I was not allowed to eat or drink anything by mouth, so the only "food" I was getting was through the IV. My team of doctors had only seen a few other cases of gain like mine, but it does happen, and it is horrible and demoralizing and frustrating.
Edited to fix quotes.0 -
And then what do you do when the amount of caloric restriction required is not realistic? The person has to choose between weight and treatment for whatever disorder they have. Yes, it's a choice, but a really crappy one.You're asking what if, let's say for example a 5'3" 200 lb woman is on antidepressants has her metabolism affected to the point where it's so low that she can't get proper nutrition with that caloric limit she's given? In the sense where she would have to go VLCD in order to be in a deficit?
If you are you're attempting to lay out the hypothetical that her metabolism is reduced by hundreds. Possibly 500, 600, 1000 calories. That's basically saying the medication is abusing the patient. A bit of an extreme hypothetical imo. I'm not sure I see the meds depressing the metabolism of a person to that point. People around here like to say it did that to them but no one is backing that up. Also remember two factors that go into caloric deficit, caloric restriction and increased energy expenditure.
Well I'm quite a bit taller than that, and wasn't as heavy, but here is my data (from LoseIt!, before MFP, but still a calorie counting app):
I had never once been overweight in my entire life until I started a cocktail of medications. I put my foot down and stopped them in the December right before the graphs start. Steadily losing weight counting calories. Due to a relapse, I was put back on the medications June 23rd (right in the valley of the graph). You can see where I stopped counting calories briefly before going back on the meds since I was doing so well with the weight loss. As SOON as I started gaining, I started counting again. When figuring averages, my average daily intake only increased 60 calories per day, and yet I went from steadily losing to steadily gaining. My total average daily intake was around 1475 (don't remember the exact number, but it was in the high 1400's), which had me gaining almost a pound per week. To maintain, I would be below 1000, and to lose I would have to basically starve. RMR testing before and after being medicated showed an RMR difference of about 400 calories per day, which combined with bed rest during the relapse completely wiped out my deficit and created a surplus. When I was on TPN briefly during my hospital stay, I continued to gain. I was not allowed to eat or drink anything by mouth, so the only "food" I was getting was through the IV. My team of doctors had only seen a few other cases of gain like mine, but it does happen, and it is horrible and demoralizing and frustrating.
Edited to fix quotes.
"Horrible, demoralizing and frustrating", pretty much sums up my experience. I had a rapid weight gain from January 2013 to March 2013 after I had surgery for an interrelated issue. If I hadn't have been tracking what I was eating my doc wouldn't have believed me. Keeping a food diary saved my life.0 -
Bologna. It's one of the last acceptable reasons to jeer at someone, discriminate against people, charge them more for clothing or seating, refuse to hire them, ask them probing questions (happened to me at a job interview)...
So... would I then be correct to say that any one of the above offenses constitutes a "hate crime"?0 -
This is great. Me too. I don't perceive this discussion as slamming those who don't have it all figured out yet, but just the idea that people are basically helpless and stuff just happens to them, without them being able to do a thing about it.
I agree with you that the side-argument seems about something else at this point.
I agree with you and it applies to all the examples: People have to take ownership or their issues in order to be able to start doing something about it. By thinking we're helpless about something then it will never change.
I'm just saying that flipping the switch to changing something in our lives, whatever it is, is sometimes difficult and sometimes easy. Everyone is different and we should be supporting each other here in making the changes we need that will work for us.0 -
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Oh good god. There are medications which increase weight - Zyprexa is a poster child for this, though many antidepressants and antipsychotics are on the list too (some have already been named). The simple fact is they do not know WHY the meds cause weight gain beyond increase in appetite. Some are thought to reduce the metabolism. Some directly screw with blood sugar and other factors, which compound the weight loss troubles. So does the med "cause" weight gain? No, not directly, and no it does not cause someone who is in a deficit to magically gain weight.
What it CAN do is slow the metabolism enough that a person who was previously in a deficit now isn't. That person gets to now choose between gaining weight on the med, quitting the med altogether (which may not be an immediate option), or eating ridiculously scant amounts of food. I have been on meds that slow metabolism (confirmed by RMR testing before and after). In order to MAINTAIN, I would have had to be eating around 900-1000 calories per day. To LOSE, I would have had to practically starve myself. Now, due to the medical issues I was bedridden so my numbers are lower, but it is still illustrative of the choice some people on medications have to make.
Did the med cause us to gain directly? No, but it left us with a really crappy choice to make. Did I choose to eat 1400 calories per day and gain over a pound a week? I suppose I did, but the alternative wasn't really an option at the time.
ETA link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1635794/In some patients, depression itself is associated with weight gain. This is compounded by treatment side effects, which may include a decrease in basal metabolic rate in addition to an increase in appetite and carbohydrate craving. An increase in weight is associated with type-II diabetes and possible insulin resistance.
Appetite, no doubt. But changes in BMR too.
Read the PDF I posted and the other long post. It will explain in detail why antidepressants cause/lead to weight gain.
I've read it, and I hear you. I think a lot of the argument is in wording - "name one medication that causes weight gain even in a caloric deficit" (paraphrasing from the question raised by a few) Well, the answer is none technically,but rather that the medication causes a change in what that deficit is for a person, and therefore said person ceases to lose weight (or starts gaining). Even with the research done into effects on the HPA axis and all that, it is still not very well understood and it's not clear why some people experience such a dramatic gain while others don't have issues - different body chemistry, of course, but what about it that alters the severity of side effects is unclear.
Finally you admit that medication in itself does not cause weight gain....but not being in a calorie deficit.
If a person is taking a medication for a serious issue such as depression etc then they should be closely monitored by their doctors and when stuff like this happens medication is tweeked...to help alleviate undesirable side effects...how do I know this...been there done that.
But as said prior if people take personal responsibilty for themselves and their own body and educate themselves and ask questions etc and do what is needed then Yah them....I will do whatever I can to help them...
Otherwise I personally don't want to hear complaints from people who aren't willing to take the bull by the horns and do what they need to do or refuse to educate themselves or work with professionals to get it sorted out...ie those that wallow in self pity and cry and don't take action cause my response to them is suck it up buttercup.0 -
Oh good god. There are medications which increase weight - Zyprexa is a poster child for this, though many antidepressants and antipsychotics are on the list too (some have already been named). The simple fact is they do not know WHY the meds cause weight gain beyond increase in appetite. Some are thought to reduce the metabolism. Some directly screw with blood sugar and other factors, which compound the weight loss troubles. So does the med "cause" weight gain? No, not directly, and no it does not cause someone who is in a deficit to magically gain weight.
What it CAN do is slow the metabolism enough that a person who was previously in a deficit now isn't. That person gets to now choose between gaining weight on the med, quitting the med altogether (which may not be an immediate option), or eating ridiculously scant amounts of food. I have been on meds that slow metabolism (confirmed by RMR testing before and after). In order to MAINTAIN, I would have had to be eating around 900-1000 calories per day. To LOSE, I would have had to practically starve myself. Now, due to the medical issues I was bedridden so my numbers are lower, but it is still illustrative of the choice some people on medications have to make.
Did the med cause us to gain directly? No, but it left us with a really crappy choice to make. Did I choose to eat 1400 calories per day and gain over a pound a week? I suppose I did, but the alternative wasn't really an option at the time.
ETA link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1635794/In some patients, depression itself is associated with weight gain. This is compounded by treatment side effects, which may include a decrease in basal metabolic rate in addition to an increase in appetite and carbohydrate craving. An increase in weight is associated with type-II diabetes and possible insulin resistance.
Appetite, no doubt. But changes in BMR too.
Read the PDF I posted and the other long post. It will explain in detail why antidepressants cause/lead to weight gain.
I've read it, and I hear you. I think a lot of the argument is in wording - "name one medication that causes weight gain even in a caloric deficit" (paraphrasing from the question raised by a few) Well, the answer is none technically,but rather that the medication causes a change in what that deficit is for a person, and therefore said person ceases to lose weight (or starts gaining). Even with the research done into effects on the HPA axis and all that, it is still not very well understood and it's not clear why some people experience such a dramatic gain while others don't have issues - different body chemistry, of course, but what about it that alters the severity of side effects is unclear.
Finally you admit that medication in itself does not cause weight gain....but not being in a calorie deficit.
If a person is taking a medication for a serious issue such as depression etc then they should be closely monitored by their doctors and when stuff like this happens medication is tweeked...to help alleviate undesirable side effects...how do I know this...been there done that.
But as said prior if people take personal responsibilty for themselves and their own body and educate themselves and ask questions etc and do what is needed then Yah them....I will do whatever I can to help them...
Otherwise I personally don't want to hear complaints from people who aren't willing to take the bull by the horns and do what they need to do or refuse to educate themselves or work with professionals to get it sorted out...ie those that wallow in self pity and cry and don't take action cause my response to them is suck it up buttercup.
is a bit of both allowed?0 -
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NoOh good god. There are medications which increase weight - Zyprexa is a poster child for this, though many antidepressants and antipsychotics are on the list too (some have already been named). The simple fact is they do not know WHY the meds cause weight gain beyond increase in appetite. Some are thought to reduce the metabolism. Some directly screw with blood sugar and other factors, which compound the weight loss troubles. So does the med "cause" weight gain? No, not directly, and no it does not cause someone who is in a deficit to magically gain weight.
What it CAN do is slow the metabolism enough that a person who was previously in a deficit now isn't. That person gets to now choose between gaining weight on the med, quitting the med altogether (which may not be an immediate option), or eating ridiculously scant amounts of food. I have been on meds that slow metabolism (confirmed by RMR testing before and after). In order to MAINTAIN, I would have had to be eating around 900-1000 calories per day. To LOSE, I would have had to practically starve myself. Now, due to the medical issues I was bedridden so my numbers are lower, but it is still illustrative of the choice some people on medications have to make.
Did the med cause us to gain directly? No, but it left us with a really crappy choice to make. Did I choose to eat 1400 calories per day and gain over a pound a week? I suppose I did, but the alternative wasn't really an option at the time.
ETA link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1635794/In some patients, depression itself is associated with weight gain. This is compounded by treatment side effects, which may include a decrease in basal metabolic rate in addition to an increase in appetite and carbohydrate craving. An increase in weight is associated with type-II diabetes and possible insulin resistance.
Appetite, no doubt. But changes in BMR too.
Read the PDF I posted and the other long post. It will explain in detail why antidepressants cause/lead to weight gain.
I've read it, and I hear you. I think a lot of the argument is in wording - "name one medication that causes weight gain even in a caloric deficit" (paraphrasing from the question raised by a few) Well, the answer is none technically,but rather that the medication causes a change in what that deficit is for a person, and therefore said person ceases to lose weight (or starts gaining). Even with the research done into effects on the HPA axis and all that, it is still not very well understood and it's not clear why some people experience such a dramatic gain while others don't have issues - different body chemistry, of course, but what about it that alters the severity of side effects is unclear.
Finally you admit that medication in itself does not cause weight gain....but not being in a calorie deficit.
If a person is taking a medication for a serious issue such as depression etc then they should be closely monitored by their doctors and when stuff like this happens medication is tweeked...to help alleviate undesirable side effects...how do I know this...been there done that.
But as said prior if people take personal responsibilty for themselves and their own body and educate themselves and ask questions etc and do what is needed then Yah them....I will do whatever I can to help them...
Otherwise I personally don't want to hear complaints from people who aren't willing to take the bull by the horns and do what they need to do or refuse to educate themselves or work with professionals to get it sorted out...ie those that wallow in self pity and cry and don't take action cause my response to them is suck it up buttercup.
is a bit of both allowed?
lol. but why cant one have a little whine then suck it up then take action0 -
I really get a kick out of these so called "experts" here on MFP that claim that certain medications will cause weight gain when eating at or below maintenance level. People really believe this??? Seriously??? IMHO, it is just *yet* another excuse to justify being overweight. What the heck ever happened to personal accountability??
Like someone said earlier in this thread, most people *choose* to be overweight. If you are happy and want to be overweight then fine; just don't whine if you are trying to lose weight but can't because you have no (or very little) self control.
Just my two cents....0 -
I really get a kick out of these so called "experts" here on MFP that claim that certain medications will cause weight gain when eating at or below maintenance level. People really believe this??? Seriously??? IMHO, it is just *yet* another excuse to justify being overweight. What the heck ever happened to personal accountability??
Like someone said earlier in this thread, most people *choose* to be overweight. If you are happy and want to be overweight then fine; just don't whine if you are trying to lose weight but can't because you have no (or very little) self control.
Just my two cents....
but at least they are trying, isnt that what its all about. Some people give up after 1 day. And also i dont agree with people choosing to be overweight. other than the ones who get paid loads of money doing things on webcams.0 -
I really get a kick out of these so called "experts" here on MFP that claim that certain medications will cause weight gain when eating at or below maintenance level. People really believe this??? Seriously??? IMHO, it is just *yet* another excuse to justify being overweight. What the heck ever happened to personal accountability??
Like someone said earlier in this thread, most people *choose* to be overweight. If you are happy and want to be overweight then fine; just don't whine if you are trying to lose weight but can't because you have no (or very little) self control.
Just my two cents....
but at least they are trying, isnt that what its all about. Some people give up after 1 day. And also i dont agree with people choosing to be overweight. other than the ones who get paid loads of money doing things on webcams.
The choices made by people is what causes them to be overweight.
I was overweight and yo yo'd for 20 years...why? because I chose to eat a lot of food, I chose to not exercise.
When I did get on a "kick" I would choose to not continue and I chose to eat more and gain it back.
Why those choices were made are often mute...yes I suffered from depression at a point, yes I use MIrnea and Depo, Yes I had lots of stress as a single mom, working full time with no child support, yes my mother has major mental issues, yes I had an ex stalk me to the point restraining orders were requested
There was a lot going on but guess what there is still a lot going on and I choose to deal with it differently...I choose to go lift heavy stuff instead of stuffing my face...I choose to log and stay in a deficit when losing, maitenance when not...those are free choices...
I could choose to over eat (like this weekend...it's a choice I made) regardless of the why we still aren't being forced to over eat and not exercise.
AS for the trying yes I agree until they start the whining..and won't listen to anyone about what needs to be done, won't educate themselves and just "give up" because it's too hard or they are "special snowflakes" where the laws of physics and math don't apply...those are the one's I say "suck it up buttercup" to.0 -
Even if I was eating donuts and pizza for every single meal I wouldn't have gained like that if something else weren't going on.0 -
I really get a kick out of these so called "experts" here on MFP that claim that certain medications will cause weight gain when eating at or below maintenance level. People really believe this??? Seriously??? IMHO, it is just *yet* another excuse to justify being overweight. What the heck ever happened to personal accountability??
Like someone said earlier in this thread, most people *choose* to be overweight. If you are happy and want to be overweight then fine; just don't whine if you are trying to lose weight but can't because you have no (or very little) self control.
Just my two cents....
but at least they are trying, isnt that what its all about. Some people give up after 1 day. And also i dont agree with people choosing to be overweight. other than the ones who get paid loads of money doing things on webcams.
I think the problem here is is that most people who come to this website are actually trying. That all gets lost in the bullcrap.0 -
Oh good god. There are medications which increase weight - Zyprexa is a poster child for this, though many antidepressants and antipsychotics are on the list too (some have already been named). The simple fact is they do not know WHY the meds cause weight gain beyond increase in appetite. Some are thought to reduce the metabolism. Some directly screw with blood sugar and other factors, which compound the weight loss troubles. So does the med "cause" weight gain? No, not directly, and no it does not cause someone who is in a deficit to magically gain weight.
What it CAN do is slow the metabolism enough that a person who was previously in a deficit now isn't. That person gets to now choose between gaining weight on the med, quitting the med altogether (which may not be an immediate option), or eating ridiculously scant amounts of food. I have been on meds that slow metabolism (confirmed by RMR testing before and after). In order to MAINTAIN, I would have had to be eating around 900-1000 calories per day. To LOSE, I would have had to practically starve myself. Now, due to the medical issues I was bedridden so my numbers are lower, but it is still illustrative of the choice some people on medications have to make.
Did the med cause us to gain directly? No, but it left us with a really crappy choice to make. Did I choose to eat 1400 calories per day and gain over a pound a week? I suppose I did, but the alternative wasn't really an option at the time.
ETA link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1635794/In some patients, depression itself is associated with weight gain. This is compounded by treatment side effects, which may include a decrease in basal metabolic rate in addition to an increase in appetite and carbohydrate craving. An increase in weight is associated with type-II diabetes and possible insulin resistance.
Appetite, no doubt. But changes in BMR too.
Read the PDF I posted and the other long post. It will explain in detail why antidepressants cause/lead to weight gain.
I've read it, and I hear you. I think a lot of the argument is in wording - "name one medication that causes weight gain even in a caloric deficit" (paraphrasing from the question raised by a few) Well, the answer is none technically,but rather that the medication causes a change in what that deficit is for a person, and therefore said person ceases to lose weight (or starts gaining). Even with the research done into effects on the HPA axis and all that, it is still not very well understood and it's not clear why some people experience such a dramatic gain while others don't have issues - different body chemistry, of course, but what about it that alters the severity of side effects is unclear.
Finally you admit that medication in itself does not cause weight gain....but not being in a calorie deficit.
If a person is taking a medication for a serious issue such as depression etc then they should be closely monitored by their doctors and when stuff like this happens medication is tweeked...to help alleviate undesirable side effects...how do I know this...been there done that.
But as said prior if people take personal responsibilty for themselves and their own body and educate themselves and ask questions etc and do what is needed then Yah them....I will do whatever I can to help them...
Otherwise I personally don't want to hear complaints from people who aren't willing to take the bull by the horns and do what they need to do or refuse to educate themselves or work with professionals to get it sorted out...ie those that wallow in self pity and cry and don't take action cause my response to them is suck it up buttercup.
You must've missed the part where the PDF clearly stated that the medications screw with fat oxidation which is why people put on 100+ lbs even though they are in a caloric deficit. So your whole "not being in a caloric deficit is what caused the weight gain" is inaccurate in this situation.0 -
Bologna. It's one of the last acceptable reasons to jeer at someone, discriminate against people, charge them more for clothing or seating, refuse to hire them, ask them probing questions (happened to me at a job interview)...the simple fact that America is very accepting of obesity.
Actually, the arrival of the term "fat shaming" in our vocabulary has made people much less likely to discriminate against overweight/obese people. There are fat activists online who compare obesity to being gay or African american, which is such a joke I don't even want to go to far into it. We aren't born obese, so these can't be compared. The fact is that being overweight has been normalized, and a doctor telling an obese person they need to lose weight is frowned upon because it's "fat shaming".
Additionally, I have experienced more jeers and comments since I lost weight. I am "getting too skinny," ( I am still overweight by BMI standards) "need to eat a sandwich," (I eat ~2400 calories a day) "just lucky I have small thighs," (loling forever) it goes on.
I have seen several people say that we are "up on pedestals" in this thread. Anyone who is on the "fat is a choice" argument automatically thinks they are somehow better than others. Not at all. We just stopped making excuses and took control. We are proud of what we've done and want others to know that they can do it too.0 -
I really get a kick out of these so called "experts" here on MFP that claim that certain medications will cause weight gain when eating at or below maintenance level. People really believe this??? Seriously??? IMHO, it is just *yet* another excuse to justify being overweight. What the heck ever happened to personal accountability??
Like someone said earlier in this thread, most people *choose* to be overweight. If you are happy and want to be overweight then fine; just don't whine if you are trying to lose weight but can't because you have no (or very little) self control.
Just my two cents....
but at least they are trying, isnt that what its all about. Some people give up after 1 day. And also i dont agree with people choosing to be overweight. other than the ones who get paid loads of money doing things on webcams.
I think the problem here is is that most people who come to this website are actually trying. That all gets lost in the bullcrap.
thats exactly it, thats why i said in one of my posts arent people allowed to whine and try. I may not have posted some of the things that people have but doesnt mean i havent been through the same thing. I have moaned, i have wondered why i wasnt losing weight, but i still kept on going. so i understand when people post their frustrations.0 -
I really get a kick out of these so called "experts" here on MFP that claim that certain medications will cause weight gain when eating at or below maintenance level. People really believe this??? Seriously??? IMHO, it is just *yet* another excuse to justify being overweight. What the heck ever happened to personal accountability??
Like someone said earlier in this thread, most people *choose* to be overweight. If you are happy and want to be overweight then fine; just don't whine if you are trying to lose weight but can't because you have no (or very little) self control.
Just my two cents....
but at least they are trying, isnt that what its all about. Some people give up after 1 day. And also i dont agree with people choosing to be overweight. other than the ones who get paid loads of money doing things on webcams.
The choices made by people is what causes them to be overweight.
I was overweight and yo yo'd for 20 years...why? because I chose to eat a lot of food, I chose to not exercise.
When I did get on a "kick" I would choose to not continue and I chose to eat more and gain it back.
Why those choices were made are often mute...yes I suffered from depression at a point, yes I use MIrnea and Depo, Yes I had lots of stress as a single mom, working full time with no child support, yes my mother has major mental issues, yes I had an ex stalk me to the point restraining orders were requested
There was a lot going on but guess what there is still a lot going on and I choose to deal with it differently...I choose to go lift heavy stuff instead of stuffing my face...I choose to log and stay in a deficit when losing, maitenance when not...those are free choices...
I could choose to over eat (like this weekend...it's a choice I made) regardless of the why we still aren't being forced to over eat and not exercise.
AS for the trying yes I agree until they start the whining..and won't listen to anyone about what needs to be done, won't educate themselves and just "give up" because it's too hard or they are "special snowflakes" where the laws of physics and math don't apply...those are the one's I say "suck it up buttercup" to.
so when you were doing all this is it because u wanted to be bigger?0 -
I really get a kick out of these so called "experts" here on MFP that claim that certain medications will cause weight gain when eating at or below maintenance level. People really believe this??? Seriously??? IMHO, it is just *yet* another excuse to justify being overweight. What the heck ever happened to personal accountability??
Like someone said earlier in this thread, most people *choose* to be overweight. If you are happy and want to be overweight then fine; just don't whine if you are trying to lose weight but can't because you have no (or very little) self control.
Just my two cents....
but at least they are trying, isnt that what its all about. Some people give up after 1 day. And also i dont agree with people choosing to be overweight. other than the ones who get paid loads of money doing things on webcams.
The choices made by people is what causes them to be overweight.
I was overweight and yo yo'd for 20 years...why? because I chose to eat a lot of food, I chose to not exercise.
When I did get on a "kick" I would choose to not continue and I chose to eat more and gain it back.
Why those choices were made are often mute...yes I suffered from depression at a point, yes I use MIrnea and Depo, Yes I had lots of stress as a single mom, working full time with no child support, yes my mother has major mental issues, yes I had an ex stalk me to the point restraining orders were requested
There was a lot going on but guess what there is still a lot going on and I choose to deal with it differently...I choose to go lift heavy stuff instead of stuffing my face...I choose to log and stay in a deficit when losing, maitenance when not...those are free choices...
I could choose to over eat (like this weekend...it's a choice I made) regardless of the why we still aren't being forced to over eat and not exercise.
AS for the trying yes I agree until they start the whining..and won't listen to anyone about what needs to be done, won't educate themselves and just "give up" because it's too hard or they are "special snowflakes" where the laws of physics and math don't apply...those are the one's I say "suck it up buttercup" to.
so when you were doing all this is it because u wanted to be bigger?
I think it's pretty apparent that her point is that she didn't *want* to be smaller bad enough to do something about it. No one wants to be fat, but most people don't want to do what it takes to not be fat, and has excuses while they are fat.
This is pretty much the thesis of this thread.0
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