Judging people and their weight

aethre

Everyone makes their choices in life.

Everyone has responsibility for their own choices.

BUT

Everybody bases those choices on their own life experience. If their life experience is 'hey, this chocolate makes me feel better', and based on that experience they choose to eat chocolate, then yeah, they're making that choice. In that particular moment, they would rather have the short-term gratification. Same thing goes for money & debt... you have your money, just like you have your calorie allowance - if you choose to go out and spend your money on expensive shoes & survive on rice & ramen the rest of the month, it's no different than Bob next door blowing all his calories on KFC and walking round with his gut hanging over his belt. Yeah, everyone makes their choices, but someone walking round being all fat is no different really than someone walking around with £40K of credit card debt... except everyone can see that you're fat. >.> Point is, it's never that person's intention - it's an accumulation of many, many bad decisions, which may or may not have appeared to be bad decisions at the time based on that person's experience of life. Nothing wrong with having a credit card. Nothing wrong with ordering pizza. It's just a matter of only using what you can pay back.

amandzor

As many people have said, I don't believe people "want" to be fat, but they certainly "choose" to be.

I chose to be. Now, I'm choosing differently.

Most adults have control over what they put in to their mouths. Most have control over how much physical activity they partake in.

You may not have liked how the doctor worded it, but those who choose not to do anything about their weight, are obviously not unhappy enough to change their current predicament.

Therealobi1

Some people do know what it takes to live healthier, and choose not to. Perhaps because they feel too overwhelmed by it all? I'm not sure. I say this because I know of someone who is a good example. Me. I was there for a long time. Like any other major change, a person has to want it enough to make it happen.

it can be overwhelming, and what doesnt help is this good food bad food thing that keeps coming up.Some people think in order to lose weight you need to cut everything out or do extreme dieting. Cant get past a few days then give up. I never really knew until i came on this site that all i had to do was keep a watch of what i was eating each day. I thought you had to starve each day. When i tell people i just cut down my portions they just stare at me with a blank face. But if i tell them i did the maple syrup diet I am sure some might ask for more details.

FatFreeFrolicking

No. I'm not talking about bloat or water retention. I'm talking about the people saying they got "fat" because the medication directly cause then to not be able to burn fat while in a caloric deficit.

And I'm not asking for a group of stuff like "steroids". Bring actual answers. Please list the medication.

Hmm let's see…

Zoloft
Cymbalta
Prozac
Lexapro
Celexa
Effexor
Pristiq
Tofranil
Propranolol

AliceDark

Then why not blame the skinny people who really didn't need to lose the weight?

You can't say you've never heard of people losing weight because of chemo. Why not go tell them it's their fault and they could gain if they stopped with the excuses?

I know you personally can't see my response because you're not brave enough to be challenged but trying to turn this into a why not go at the skinny people argument is weak and pathetic. They are not in her complaining about not being able to gain weight. However, people are in here claiming meds are preventing them from losing weight while in a deficit.

So far everyone's attempt or lack of attempt to name a med is pretty pathetic.

Oh, we're totally over in the Gaining Weight forum complaining about not being able to gain weight! We're just not confused about the why. Even if there's some extenuating circumstance that raises someone's TDEE higher than they'd expect, the answer is "you just have to eat more than your TDEE."

levitateme

No. I'm not talking about bloat or water retention. I'm talking about the people saying they got "fat" because the medication directly cause then to not be able to burn fat while in a caloric deficit.

And I'm not asking for a group of stuff like "steroids". Bring actual answers. Please list the medication.

Hmm let's see…

Zoloft
Cymbalta
Prozac
Lexapro
Celexa
Effexor
Pristiq
Tofranil
Propranolol

[/quote]

http://www.webmd.com/depression/features/antidepressants-weight-gain

From Article:

Antidepressants and Weight Gain: What Happens and Why

Although there are a number of theories as to why antidepressants lead to weight gain, Sussman believes that both appetite and metabolism may be affected.

"I have had patients who swear that they are not eating any more, but still gaining weight, so that tells us there is some kind of metabolic influence going on; I have also had patients tell me that they are not only more hungry and eating more, but that the medicines are encouraging a carbohydrate craving that is hard to control, so we know appetite also plays a role," he says.

Fincham says antidepressants may also simply help us to rediscover pleasure in our life -- including food.

"It might be a situation where someone feels so much better when taking an antidepressant that lots of things suddenly start feeling more pleasurable to them, and food is just one of them. So in this instance they may actually be overeating and not even realize they are doing so, says Fincham.

Findings from a group of Italian researchers published in the journal Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics suggest that the simple act of recovery from depression may play a role in the weight gain.

Increased appetite. Always. Always. Stop blaming medications. Lots of people think they are eating less than they are. That's why every single thread on this site "I am not losing weight, what am I doing wrong??" is concluded with the person eating too much (and then getting defensive and angry, but that's another story).

ETA: html, quotes inside quotes

FatFreeFrolicking

No. I'm not talking about bloat or water retention. I'm talking about the people saying they got "fat" because the medication directly cause then to not be able to burn fat while in a caloric deficit.

And I'm not asking for a group of stuff like "steroids". Bring actual answers. Please list the medication.

Hmm let's see…

Zoloft
Cymbalta
Prozac
Lexapro
Celexa
Effexor
Pristiq
Tofranil
Propranolol

http://www.webmd.com/depression/features/antidepressants-weight-gain

From Article:

Antidepressants and Weight Gain: What Happens and Why

Although there are a number of theories as to why antidepressants lead to weight gain, Sussman believes that both appetite and metabolism may be affected.

"I have had patients who swear that they are not eating any more, but still gaining weight, so that tells us there is some kind of metabolic influence going on; I have also had patients tell me that they are not only more hungry and eating more, but that the medicines are encouraging a carbohydrate craving that is hard to control, so we know appetite also plays a role," he says.

Fincham says antidepressants may also simply help us to rediscover pleasure in our life -- including food.

"It might be a situation where someone feels so much better when taking an antidepressant that lots of things suddenly start feeling more pleasurable to them, and food is just one of them. So in this instance they may actually be overeating and not even realize they are doing so, says Fincham.

Findings from a group of Italian researchers published in the journal Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics suggest that the simple act of recovery from depression may play a role in the weight gain.

Increased appetite. Always. Always. Stop blaming medications. Lots of people think they are eating less than they are. That's why every single thread on this site "I am not losing weight, what am I doing wrong??" is concluded with the person eating too much (and then getting defensive and angry, but that's another story).

ETA: html, quotes inside quotes
[/quote]



That doesn't apply to someone who was on a strict diet via dietician and endocrinologist, counted calories religiously, ate 1200 calories (which is 507 calories below my BMR), and played sports.

FatFreeFrolicking

No. I'm not talking about bloat or water retention. I'm talking about the people saying they got "fat" because the medication directly cause then to not be able to burn fat while in a caloric deficit.

And I'm not asking for a group of stuff like "steroids". Bring actual answers. Please list the medication.

Hmm let's see…

Zoloft
Cymbalta
Prozac
Lexapro
Celexa
Effexor
Pristiq
Tofranil
Propranolol

Are you saying that all of those medications you listed prevent the human body from oxidizing fat? That they will cause an individual that is in a hypocaloric state to no longer use fat as energy and will instead accumulate fat?

So the above question doesn't get lost on page 10. ^^^^^^

"Possible mechanisms include blockade of histamine H1 and serotonin 2C receptors, carbohydrate craving caused by alpha-noradrenergic activity or histamine blockade, changes in the regulation of body fat stores by modulating neurotransmitter systems at the hypothalamic level, and recovery from clinical depression.2,5,9,10."

"Through blockade of histamine H1 and serotonin 2C receptors, mirtazapine is likely to be related to weight gain in both the short term and the long term.1 A piperazine-azepine compound, it enhances central noradrenergic and serotonergic activity. It is a potent antagonist of H1, serotonin 2, and serotonin 3, and a moderate antagonist of peripheral alpha-1 adrenergic and muscarinic receptors."

Source: http://www.ccjm.org/content/70/7/614.full.pdf+html

kmsnyg

"Possible mechanisms include blockade of histamine H1 and serotonin 2C receptors, carbohydrate craving caused by alpha-noradrenergic activity or histamine blockade, changes in the regulation of body fat stores by modulating neurotransmitter systems at the hypothalamic level, and recovery from clinical depression.2,5,9,10."

"Through blockade of histamine H1 and serotonin 2C receptors, mirtazapine is likely to be related to weight gain in both the short term and the long term.1 A piperazine-azepine compound, it enhances central noradrenergic and serotonergic activity. It is a potent antagonist of H1, serotonin 2, and serotonin 3, and a moderate antagonist of peripheral alpha-1 adrenergic and muscarinic receptors."

Source: http://www.ccjm.org/content/70/7/614.full.pdf+html

Yes, but I think their point is that you still have to physically put the food in your mouth. The drug may induce carb cravings, but the pill itself is not a bunch of calories.

The person taking said pill still has to eat above maintenance (wherever that may be for them). So they still have a choice in the matter.

FatFreeFrolicking

"Clinical studies have now revealed the exact cause of antidepressant weight gain. And clinical studies now confirm weight loss can happen when you do specific things. Antidepressants and anti-psychotics were created to alter an area of the brain called the Hypothalamus Pituitary-Adrenal Axis (HPA). The HPA is a system of hormones and glands. The hormones within the HPA regulate serotonin.

These medications are designed to increase the output of a hormone that is believed to lower stress, depression and symptoms associated with mental disorders.

This HPA system has a group of steroid hormones called Glucocorticoids, which regulate carbohydrate, protein, and fat metabolism.

This HPA system needs to be in balance for the body to function properly. The human brain will usually make up 2% of our overall body mass. However, our brain will use up 50% of glucose in the body. The brain depends on our glucose for energy. Activity within this system generates messages of “energy on demand” and “energy on request.” The activation of the adrenal system inhibits glucose uptake by tissue by inhibiting insulin release. This process produces insulin resistance but increases hepatic glucose production. With inadequate “energy on request,” a condition called neuroglycopenia (a shortage of glucose in the brain, also hypoglycemia.)

Symptoms associated with this condition:
•Abnormal mentation (mental activity), thinking, impaired judgment
•Anxiety, moodiness, depression, crying, fear of dying
•Negativism, irritability, belligerence, combativeness, rage
•Personality change, emotional lability (Very rapid fluctuations in intensity of emotions.)
•Fatigue, weakness, apathy, lethargy, daydreaming, sleep
•Confusion, amnesia, dizziness, delirium
•Staring, "glassy" look, blurred vision, double vision
•Difficulty speaking, slurred speech
•Ataxia (Loss of the ability to coordinate muscular movement.), incorordination, sometimes mistaken for "drunkenness"
•General motor deficit, paralysis, hemiparesis (Muscle weakness on one side of the body.)
•Paresthesia (A skin sensation, such as burning, prickling, itching, or tingling, with no apparent physical cause.), headache
•Stupor, coma, abnormal breathing

A decrease in brain glucose will activate other portions of the brain that release proteins, which stimulate food intake. When this happens, an increase in body weight is inevitable at this point.

The increase in fat mass will generate a feedback signal to other hormones and insulin. These phenomena can also take place with prolonged stress, starvation, and continued heavy exercise, drugs or by certain chemicals. This results in the permanent activation of the feedback signal, which results in continued insulin resistance, hypertension and metabolic syndrome.

This is why individuals that are predisposed to diabetes are 2 to 3 times more likely to become diabetic if they use an antidepressant or anti-psychotic medication. Another key hormone regulating weight that is also altered by glucocorticoid is leptin. There are two types of leptin, brain leptin and plasma leptin. Glucocorticoids increase both appetite as well as brain leptin secretion. Plasma leptin will store unwanted fats. The brain is the controlling factor in this system. The brain knows it needs an ample supply of glucose to survive. With this balanced system being altered with drug induced over stimulation of glucocorticoid, the brain sends a signal to increase plasma leptin for fat and glucose storage. This insures the brain of the needed glucose for survival.This increased plasma leptin works for the brain effectively in the short-term but ultimately leads to the destruction of the body. Obesity, diabetes, and a hormone – gland system that becomes too fatigued to function, is the final outcome."

http://www.prozactruth.com/weightgain.htm

fitfreakymom

People are typically over weight because they do not pay attention to portion control, when the box of cereal says that one seving is one cup then only have one cup do not fill the entire bowl which is what a lot of people do. They same go's for other food to. People can workout for 30 min a day doing a workout video or power walking the dog.

Bull****. Obesity is a structural problem, a public health problem, owing to many factors beyond our control such as food system design, city design, work schedules, commute time, and so forth. People weren't skinnier a hundred years ago because they wanted it more, they were skinnier because it was easy. Healthy weight has gone from the default, to something you must strive for, to something you must spend hours every day working for.

For myself, the biggest change in my weight is not due to dieting or working harder. It is because I moved to a place where I can run right from my front door. Not everyone has that option.

The people on this forum put in a lot of work to try to be healthy. Good for them, more power to them. But they cannot be blamed for the problem to begin with, nor can people who aren't able to put in this much effort be condemned.

SezxyStef

You should have bolded this entire part but mainly this part or did you miss the increase in appetite part?

A decrease in brain glucose will activate other portions of the brain that release proteins, which stimulate food intake. When this happens, an increase in body weight is inevitable at this point.

sdelo7

This topic has gotten quite the emotional responses. My initial response was that it was hurtful for fat people - like me - to be told we choose to be fat. I know I'm fat. I hate being fat.
I read all the posts and I understand the position from both sides. Now, I agree. We choose to do what we do. I am fat because I have not made the right choices to change it.
I also have come to realize that not bodies work the same and it becomes difficult to find what works. 1,500 calories may be enough for someone to lose weight but for another with different metabolism/medication etc... it may be wayyyy to much. Or not enough. Lots of variables.

However, saying: Just try harder to eat less calories/exercise more and you will lose weight is way too simplistic an answer to a complicated human issue.

And it doesn't just apply to weight loss.
Just try harder to spend less or bring in more income and you won't be in debt.
Just get up / leave earlier to get place on time.
Just study harder and you will get better grades.
Just think before you speak and you won't hurt people so much.
etc...

If it was that simple, we would all be perfect. We are all human trying to navigate our own challenges in life. Mine is weight.

I came here because I decided to make changes and try to figure out how to no longer be fat. For me, I don't want to be just skinny, I want to be fit - weight will come down with that. I am right now only trying to understand how I work. How much calories I need, how much exercise I can handle right now and progressing to be fitter everyday.

I came here for support, information, advice from others who have or still are working on losing weight and getting fitter.

Arguments can be healthy. I just found this topic has on some occasions gotten away from healthy and became non productive and frankly into personal attacks. None of us need that.

Just my 2 cents

SunofaBeach14

The desperation to find excuses is strong in this thread. There are two paths. No one cares which one you pick but it only affects you. I do, however, lack any sympathy for people who refuse to help themselves. To those I can only say you get what you earn. To those who struggle and fight against cancer, chemo, fibro, lost limbs, and a host of other problems and yet seem to to keep up the fight, I have nothing but respect. Again, two choices, two paths, and a world of difference between the two.

FatFreeFrolicking

You should have bolded this entire part but mainly this part or did you miss the increase in appetite part?

A decrease in brain glucose will activate other portions of the brain that release proteins, which stimulate food intake. When this happens, an increase in body weight is inevitable at this point.

And you should've read the PDF.

Increased appetite is only ONE of the reasons some people gain weight on antidepressants. Not everyone experiences that side effect. The main reason people gain weight from them is because antidepressants slow the metabolism and inhibit specific enzymes in the liver that allow the metabolism to function correctly.

WhyLime113

This topic has gotten quite the emotional responses. My initial response was that it was hurtful for fat people - like me - to be told we choose to be fat. I know I'm fat. I hate being fat.
I read all the posts and I understand the position from both sides. Now, I agree. We choose to do what we do. I am fat because I have not made the right choices to change it.
I also have come to realize that not bodies work the same and it becomes difficult to find what works. 1,500 calories may be enough for someone to lose weight but for another with different metabolism/medication etc... it may be wayyyy to much. Or not enough. Lots of variables.

However, saying: Just try harder to eat less calories/exercise more and you will lose weight is way too simplistic an answer to a complicated human issue.

And it doesn't just apply to weight loss.
Just try harder to spend less or bring in more income and you won't be in debt.
Just get up / leave earlier to get place on time.
Just study harder and you will get better grades.
Just think before you speak and you won't hurt people so much.
etc...

If it was that simple, we would all be perfect. We are all human trying to navigate our own challenges in life. Mine is weight.

I came here because I decided to make changes and try to figure out how to no longer be fat. For me, I don't want to be just skinny, I want to be fit - weight will come down with that. I am right now only trying to understand how I work. How much calories I need, how much exercise I can handle right now and progressing to be fitter everyday.

I came here for support, information, advice from others who have or still are working on losing weight and getting fitter.

Arguments can be healthy. I just found this topic has on some occasions gotten away from healthy and became non productive and frankly into personal attacks. None of us need that.

Just my 2 cents

I really agree with you on the simplistic thing. Like, yes, losing weight is as simple as caloric deficit. This is true. However, actually achieving that, alongside various other factors that impact how you eat and exercise is really hard for a lot of people. Breaking old habits is hard. Being on medication is hard. For some people, it takes forever and a half before weight actually starts dropping. Genetics play a factor in how easily one can gain or lose weight. It's simple, yet it's very very complicated at the same time.

sdelo7

This topic has gotten quite the emotional responses. My initial response was that it was hurtful for fat people - like me - to be told we choose to be fat. I know I'm fat. I hate being fat.
I read all the posts and I understand the position from both sides. Now, I agree. We choose to do what we do. I am fat because I have not made the right choices to change it.
I also have come to realize that not bodies work the same and it becomes difficult to find what works. 1,500 calories may be enough for someone to lose weight but for another with different metabolism/medication etc... it may be wayyyy to much. Or not enough. Lots of variables.

However, saying: Just try harder to eat less calories/exercise more and you will lose weight is way too simplistic an answer to a complicated human issue.

And it doesn't just apply to weight loss.
Just try harder to spend less or bring in more income and you won't be in debt.
Just get up / leave earlier to get place on time.
Just study harder and you will get better grades.
Just think before you speak and you won't hurt people so much.
etc...

If it was that simple, we would all be perfect. We are all human trying to navigate our own challenges in life. Mine is weight.

I came here because I decided to make changes and try to figure out how to no longer be fat. For me, I don't want to be just skinny, I want to be fit - weight will come down with that. I am right now only trying to understand how I work. How much calories I need, how much exercise I can handle right now and progressing to be fitter everyday.

I came here for support, information, advice from others who have or still are working on losing weight and getting fitter.

Arguments can be healthy. I just found this topic has on some occasions gotten away from healthy and became non productive and frankly into personal attacks. None of us need that.

Just my 2 cents

I really agree with you on the simplistic thing. Like, yes, losing weight is as simple as caloric deficit. This is true. However, actually achieving that, alongside various other factors that impact how you eat and exercise is really hard for a lot of people. Breaking old habits is hard. Being on medication is hard. For some people, it takes forever and a half before weight actually starts dropping. Genetics play a factor in how easily one can gain or lose weight. It's simple, yet it's very very complicated at the same time.

That is exactly my point. It's easy to tell people "just do it" or "try harder" etc... But for a lot of us eating/exercising/losing weight etc... is complicated. For others it's balancing their budget or picking up their clothes off the floor.

We are all complicated.