Judging people and their weight
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But the person is still making a choice to take the medication, because the benefits of taking it outweigh the consequences. It may not be a good choice, or a fair choice. It may be the case that no sane person would choose not to take the medication, regardless of how much weight gain it causes, but it's still a choice.Unfortunately what the doctor is saying is true. Being overweight or obese is self inflicted. No one is forcing someone to eat more than they should. Food to some is just as addicting as tobacco is to smokers. How many people truly feel sorry for someone who gets lung cancer after smoking for decades? Not many. How many people truly feel sorry for someone who is considered obese that dies, or contracts a related disease associated with their weight. Again not many.
Medication that causes weight gain is not self-inflicted.
And even then, it's not the medication that makes people gain weight is it? Isn't it that the medication causes them to be more hungry so they over eat and gain weight?
Wrong. It is usually entirely the medication that causes weight gain. Some medications are known to increase appetite which leads people to eat more, however, that's not the case for everyone.
And, the best reading comp fail of the day goes to . . .0 -
That was in no way taking things out of context. You said those things, your own writing, to show you how inconsistent you are. The only thing you are being consistent with is deflecting personal responsibility. Some people will figure out the solution and succeed. Some people with play the role of the victim and people will approach them in a sensitive way, messaging their feeling to show some empathy while at the same time enabling them to continue throwing pity parties. We all have a choice to decide which individual we are, no matter what medical barriers or personal problems we face.
Really? You're not taking things out of context quoting stuff from over a year ago as "proof"? Eg. "I ate a lot different when I was 140lbs vs. now 4 years later and exercised every day". Context that is missing: "I had surgery on my abdomen a few months ago so I'm not exercising right now because I am unable to" and "I ate more veggies back then and now I need to eat better" (Considering this was a year and 3 months ago, I'm pretty sure I've made adjustments since then). Or "I used to have 6+ drinks when I went out now I only have 3" context that is missing "My calorie priorities were different" (and as I said earlier I only started eating at a deficit again in the last month or so). Or how's this one "I used to eat 1500 calories/ day and was running 7 miles" context that is missing "I was training for a half marathon and was feeling pretty awesome, I wasn't losing but I wasn't gaining either. This was two years ago".
Do you not think that there's more to what's going on that what I feel comfortable writing on here? And why? Because of this attitude. Very few people actually want to help on this site. They use it to feel morally superior to others who have serious issues.
Really now...interesting that you assume that.
Considering how many random people email me all the time and I answer their questions to the best of my ability.
I do not feel morally superior to you, I feel bad actually that you haven't come to that place you need to be, you know the reason for being on MFP to accept that in order to lose weight you have to be in a calorie deficit regardless of medical issues and no exercise is required to lose weight. And that with some of your conditions it will be harder but can be done as many many women here have proven over and over again....
When you want it bad enough you will do it.
And not all those quotes were old some were very recent
This one was yesterdayI go out almost every weekend. What I started doing is instead of the 6+ drinks I used to have I now drink water in between so it's cut down to 2-3 drinks. Still quite a few calories but if I know I'm going out I won't eat as heavily during the daytime either.
This one was July 29 2014...less than a week ago.-I haven't always been in a calorie deficit. I started logging consistantly to show my doctors that I wasn't over eating. Then since my hormones got balanced I decided to try again with restricting calories because I should be able to function like a normal human being now. But I've kept a food journal consistantly for 3 years. Which really helped last year because I gained 60lbs out of nowhere and my doctor didnt' believe that I wasn't overeating until I showed him my journal. Turns out I had a huge tumor on my thyroid and my thyroid wasn't fucntioning right. Looooooooong story. But my new doc wants to see the macros so that's why I started logging here recently0 -
My wife struggled with severe pain through chemotherapy, a double mastectomy, and reconstructive surgery, and still struggles with fibromyalgia. It's amazing what weight training has done for her. It hurt like hell in the beginning though.
Maybe it could work. Not sure though, scar tissue isn't like stretchy and the pain keeps getting worse not better. I had a pretty bad flare up after my 5k on Sunday and I wasn't running that thing just walking fast. I have to be careful since a pain flare up can be so bad that I can't get out of bed. Since I work full time and have two children a day in bed isn't feasible ya know?
Have you tried myofascial release techniques with a physical therapist specializing in chronic pain? Maybe you've heard of a technique called skin rolling? Very effective for adhesions and other conditions under the skin that cause lack of flexibility and pain.0 -
could you swap the running for the strength training instead, might hurt less.
I posted above about weighing. Seriously, weigh everything. You should also be focusing on lean meats, dairy, and eggs as your primary protein sources if you eat them (and it appears that you do). Those protein sources and vegetables should be making up the vast majority of your diet. Peanut butter is fine on days when you need to hit your fat macro but don't look at it as a protein source. It is a fat source. Fat is necessary. Also, keep your popcorn and candy consumption at a small amount of your daily total. At 1700 calories, 400-500 calories of that is crowding out protein and fiber. Keep at it, weigh and measure, clean up your diet a bit, and finally, start strength training.
I weigh everything. I have this wonderful little red scale that goes right in my purse to work with me if I didn't weigh everything the night before. I'm working on the cleaning it up I have a sugar problem. I crave it like crazy so I try to fit it in. Now with the strength training, I plan on throwing in a day there a week when I get a little stronger. Trying to stick to one thing before I throw in something new.
The advantage to strength training is that it will allow you to keep muscle mass as you lose weight so that more of what you lose is fat. It should be done at least 3 days a week. I hear what you're saying about sticking with things though, but think about it, as it does work. We all like sugar. Just reduce it a bit, I'm certainly not saying eliminate it as that's not sustainable for many of us. The only problem with sugar is when too much is consumed as it crowds out other nutrients and/or causes you to exceed your calorie goal.
Also, with regard to weight gain and loss, keep in mind that daily fluctuations are normal and largely do to food consumption, using the restroom, and water. When you weigh yourself do it at the same time and under the same conditions every time you weigh, and focus only on the trend line. My own weight varies by 4 to 5 pounds throughout the day.
Yeah I weigh myself in the AM every morning same time, after I use the toilet. I'm honestly worried about doing any strength training because of chronic pain. I've actually been hurting myself pretty bad with the running and walking so it's really hard for me to say "OK, I'm going to add in weight that I know is going to hurt badly for several days after on top of already hurting badly".
Strength training aggravates the crap out of my core. I have pretty severe adhesions (scar tissue) in my tummy ranging from just under my rib cage to the top of my hips. Anything that engages or moves the muscles there hurts like hell.
That's ridiculous!! I have BIG time issues with scar tissue build up from surgeries I've had in the past and it has never given me issues at all!! I think you are just making excuses after another!! That's my 2 cents.0 -
could you swap the running for the strength training instead, might hurt less.
I posted above about weighing. Seriously, weigh everything. You should also be focusing on lean meats, dairy, and eggs as your primary protein sources if you eat them (and it appears that you do). Those protein sources and vegetables should be making up the vast majority of your diet. Peanut butter is fine on days when you need to hit your fat macro but don't look at it as a protein source. It is a fat source. Fat is necessary. Also, keep your popcorn and candy consumption at a small amount of your daily total. At 1700 calories, 400-500 calories of that is crowding out protein and fiber. Keep at it, weigh and measure, clean up your diet a bit, and finally, start strength training.
I weigh everything. I have this wonderful little red scale that goes right in my purse to work with me if I didn't weigh everything the night before. I'm working on the cleaning it up I have a sugar problem. I crave it like crazy so I try to fit it in. Now with the strength training, I plan on throwing in a day there a week when I get a little stronger. Trying to stick to one thing before I throw in something new.
The advantage to strength training is that it will allow you to keep muscle mass as you lose weight so that more of what you lose is fat. It should be done at least 3 days a week. I hear what you're saying about sticking with things though, but think about it, as it does work. We all like sugar. Just reduce it a bit, I'm certainly not saying eliminate it as that's not sustainable for many of us. The only problem with sugar is when too much is consumed as it crowds out other nutrients and/or causes you to exceed your calorie goal.
Also, with regard to weight gain and loss, keep in mind that daily fluctuations are normal and largely do to food consumption, using the restroom, and water. When you weigh yourself do it at the same time and under the same conditions every time you weigh, and focus only on the trend line. My own weight varies by 4 to 5 pounds throughout the day.
Yeah I weigh myself in the AM every morning same time, after I use the toilet. I'm honestly worried about doing any strength training because of chronic pain. I've actually been hurting myself pretty bad with the running and walking so it's really hard for me to say "OK, I'm going to add in weight that I know is going to hurt badly for several days after on top of already hurting badly".
Strength training aggravates the crap out of my core. I have pretty severe adhesions (scar tissue) in my tummy ranging from just under my rib cage to the top of my hips. Anything that engages or moves the muscles there hurts like hell.
any exercises in the swimming pool? would that be any good?
I swim a lot with the kids but there's not a swimming pool accessable to me for like lap swimming and whatnot. We just go to the lake.
oh nice one. you can swim there then. i would swap out the running for the swimming and then slowly add in your strength training.0 -
Which does bring me back to my point. You're not accurately recording what you eat. I get it. I've been there. But if you're not losing weight at 1700 then you are eating too much. It's that simple.
I weigh everything, my diary is 100% accurate. If I'm not losing weight at 1700 something's WRONG. In anyone else they would be losing, not gaining, not maintaining. Which is what my point was to begin with :grumble:
actually no you don't.
Looked at your diary...
January over some, not weighed mostly measured, missed days on end, partial days
Feb mostly not logged, items not weighed,
March partial days, most days not logged, when you did log it wasn't weighed mostly
sporatic logging at best in march at the start of the month
nothing on the days I clicked in april (about 1/2 of them)
no logging at all in June. Started July 13...often over goal, cup measurments oz weights (which are inaccurate).
I was heavy and yo yo'd for almost 20 years...I have no excuses for it other than eating too much and not moving enough.
No medical condition if in a deficit will prevent weight loss...and this is a perfect example of what the doctors were saying.
If you don't want to be over weight then don't be. It is not easy but it can be done.
I don't judge those who are actively trying to lose weight and are being honest with themselves about it. I don't judge those who aren't actively trying either I just feel bad for them.
I haven't been using MFP to log. I had sometimes been using it to check macro nutrients per my doc's request but haven't started using MFP to be my log until July. I've been keeping a paper diary. And no, they're not cup measurements it's just how it's entered into MFP. Example: 1/2 a cup of ice cream is 62 grams. I'm using my scale to measure out the grams but MFP is logging it in cups or ounces. Still the same stats but when I log it, it comes up with a different unit of measurement even though that's EXACTLY what's on the box. I've been over my goal 3 times. And, again, still under 2000 cals except for yesterday. That shouldn't cause someone my size to gain weight.
I am not going to argue this point past this post.
Based on your diary from January 2014 to today you have used MFP to log in Jan, some of feb, some of mar none in april none in june some in july and now in august. So you have used it somewhat for logging.
As for your measurments it doesn't matter 1/2 cup <>62grams and choosing correct entires is as important as weighing. I do not use the entries that are not in grams even my own recipes are in grams. As for being over your goal without the log in MFP who knows....
If you are gaining weight you are NOT in a deficit...period. Simple math and physics and until the world of science is turned upside down thems the facts.
but these sort of explain a whole lot to me anyway. I mean I could go on with these but I won't...there are more. Even the fact you ate out 2x and lost 4lbs...I see a lot of back and forth with you...but until people are ready to accept what they are doing they will remain the same.Hey there OP: I'm actually quite happy being on the heavier side as long as I feel awesome and don't have any major health issues. Previous to a few months ago I was fine with being active, and being just shy of 200lbs. I had pretty much given up on diet/ exercise except to stay happy and control my depression symptoms (works quite well that way!) It wasn't until I gained a massive amount of weight out of nowhere that I started to become unhappy.Between Adenomyosis, needing a hysterectomy, 2 csections, THEN my gallbladder got infected THEN my appendix also got infected.... oh and have I talked about the surgery I had for adhesions? Top it all off no ovaries means my adrenal glands are acting all nuts now too. I've been trying for YEARS to get the proper diagnosis besides "you're just fat, go on a diet". Finally got my answer yesterday with a proper diagnosis of Hashimoto's Hypothyroidisim with possible prediabetic comorbidityNot sure where to start here. I once lost 80lbs. This was about 4 years ago. Pop out a kid, have a few surgeries and bam, I'm up 60lbs again *sigh* Sunday was my baby's 3rd birthday. I just about vomitted when I saw pics of myself. The problem is I KNOW how to do this. But Monday I found my diet log from back then... on paper. And I realized, damn I really DID eat a LOT differently. AND I exercised almost daily. It was almost mind blowing because I kept saying, well I don't do anything *that* differently. And, hell I really do do things very differently.I go out almost every weekend. What I started doing is instead of the 6+ drinks I used to have I now drink water in between so it's cut down to 2-3 drinks. Still quite a few calories but if I know I'm going out I won't eat as heavily during the daytime either.-I haven't always been in a calorie deficit. I started logging consistantly to show my doctors that I wasn't over eating. Then since my hormones got balanced I decided to try again with restricting calories because I should be able to function like a normal human being now. But I've kept a food journal consistantly for 3 years. Which really helped last year because I gained 60lbs out of nowhere and my doctor didnt' believe that I wasn't overeating until I showed him my journal. Turns out I had a huge tumor on my thyroid and my thyroid wasn't fucntioning right. Looooooooong story. But my new doc wants to see the macros so that's why I started logging here recently.
Way to take things out of context, great job :drinker:
Have you had metabolic testing done? Oxygen consumption test? Hydrostatic testing?
My best guess is that your basal metabolic rate is extremely compromised from your thyroid issues and everything else you are dealing with.
It doesn't matter that you SHOULD lose weight eating 2000 calories. You aren't the average Joe. If you ate 1200 calories a day, I guarantee you you would lose weight. If you don't lose weight eating 1200, then your BMR is even lower than I think it is. Meaning you would have to eat below 1200 (under doctor supervision, of course).0 -
That's ridiculous!! I have BIG time issues with scar tissue build up from surgeries I've had in the past and it has never given me issues at all!! I think you are just making excuses after another!! That's my 2 cents.
Adhesions don't always aggrivate the person depending on where they are and how they're adhered. Not a one size fits all thing.0 -
oh nice one. you can swim there then. i would swap out the running for the swimming and then slowly add in your strength training.
That's definitly a possiblity
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That's ridiculous!! I have BIG time issues with scar tissue build up from surgeries I've had in the past and it has never given me issues at all!! I think you are just making excuses after another!! That's my 2 cents.
Adhesions don't always aggrivate the person depending on where they are and how they're adhered. Not a one size fits all thing.
I agree. But being obese can definitely add to the pain you are experiencing.
Ask yourself this… Do you want to be obese for the rest of your life (and probably not live past 40 or 50) or do you want to suffer through some pain in order to lose the weight?0 -
Have you had metabolic testing done? Oxygen consumption test? Hydrostatic testing?
My best guess is that your basal metabolic rate is extremely compromised from your thyroid issues and everything else you are dealing with.
It doesn't matter that you SHOULD lose weight eating 2000 calories. You aren't the average Joe. If you ate 1200 calories a day, I guarantee you you would lose weight. If you don't lose weight eating 1200, then your BMR is even lower than I think it is. Meaning you would have to eat below 1200 (under doctor supervision, of course).
I haven't as there isn't anywhere around here that does that. I live in a very isolated area. I've been on a wait list to see a nutritionist since October of 2013.
I am seeing a physical therapist we do water stuff and massage once a week.0 -
That's ridiculous!! I have BIG time issues with scar tissue build up from surgeries I've had in the past and it has never given me issues at all!! I think you are just making excuses after another!! That's my 2 cents.
Adhesions don't always aggrivate the person depending on where they are and how they're adhered. Not a one size fits all thing.
I agree. But being obese can definitely add to the pain you are experiencing.
Ask yourself this… Do you want to be obese for the rest of your life (and probably not live past 40 or 50) or do you want to suffer through some pain in order to lose the weight?
Oh definitly aggrivating it. No question. Which is why I've been pushing through it in the past few weeks to keep going. I have an appointment with my pain management doctor to adjust my meds to the activity. See if there's something else we can do until the next surgery for scar revision.0 -
I too am doing it for me and agree with you about the MD's.....well said. I know my biggest struggle is stress and emotional eating....creeps up and sometimes gets the better of me.........I too can use the support rather than words from people who don't understand the daily fight :flowerforyou:0
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That's ridiculous!! I have BIG time issues with scar tissue build up from surgeries I've had in the past and it has never given me issues at all!! I think you are just making excuses after another!! That's my 2 cents.
Adhesions don't always aggrivate the person depending on where they are and how they're adhered. Not a one size fits all thing.
I agree. But being obese can definitely add to the pain you are experiencing.
Ask yourself this… Do you want to be obese for the rest of your life (and probably not live past 40 or 50) or do you want to suffer through some pain in order to lose the weight?
Oh definitly aggrivating it. No question. Which is why I've been pushing through it in the past few weeks to keep going. I have an appointment with my pain management doctor to adjust my meds to the activity. See if there's something else we can do until the next surgery for scar revision.
Do you take a lot of meds? Some meds can make it more difficult to lose weight. Especially when you take a bunch of pills.
Also, starting tomorrow, try lowering your caloric intake to 1300 daily. 1700 and 2000 calories is clearly too much for you.0 -
A lot of people don't want to be poor either, but don't lift a finger to educate themselves and invest their money wisely. If you want something badly enough then you work for it. Period.
ergh, if someone is homeless on the street and in poverty, education and wise investments don't help much. and of course, education costs a lot in some countries, so those in poverty cannot always afford education.
I've seen this go both ways and I really think it does depend on where you live as well. Around where I live, there is this 'homeless' guy that sits on the corner by my grocery store with a sign that explains that he's jobless, starving and has a family at home, yet he is at that corner almost 24/7. This is right by a McDonald's that is literally hiring ALL THE TIME. I was a manager at that McDonald's in the past and I KNOW that they hire people no matter what. Even if they have a record of some sort. So some times it is just laziness or not wanting to sink to a certain level, but personally I think begging is worse than working in fast food. However, there are cases where there's not much that the person can really do to escape poverty or even they might not know how. Who really knows unless you're actually in their shoes?0 -
Do you take a lot of meds? Some meds can make it more difficult to lose weight. Especially when you take a bunch of pills.
Also, starting tomorrow, try lowering your caloric intake to 1300 daily. 1700 and 2000 calories is clearly too much for you.
I take gabapentin, norco, and levothyroxine. I don't think they have those effects, though. Yeah 1700 may be too much. I've been thinking about dropping since this is the second week with no weight loss.0 -
If people are where they are now (whether weight wise or financial), the likelihood is it's because of their own choices in the past. I don't always buy the stress and emotional eating reasoning because lean and thin people also deal with stress and emotional issues on daily basis, but don't resort to eating to resolve it.
Habitual eating is IMO the reason why many people have weight issues today.
Food being pretty palatable today, but packing a lot of calories, is another reason since only a small percentage of people consciously count how many calories they need to consume in a day.
I think the point that the "doctor" is making is that when it comes to food/calorie consumption, people HAVE a choice. People aren't being forced to consume food (lol, unless you're a kid at the dinner table) or having their choice of food chosen.
As mentioned earlier, no one wants to be fat, poor, unloved, etc., but it takes personal action to ensure that those things don't happen to you. If one accepts the above, it's because they choose to accept it.
A.C.E. Certified Group Fitness and Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Just watched a show on TV where this "Doctor" is saying that people are fat because they want to be. That is such BS. I don't know one person, including myself, who wakes up every morning and says...."Hey, I want to stuff my face and be fat, so that people can stare at me, and judge me". Some of these doctors are complete idiots. Being fat is NOT the problem with most people. It's just a symptom of the problem. Many people eat excessively because of emotional issues, depression, loneliness, to find comfort etc. It makes me angry that people are so quick to judge others without knowing their story or walking even a block in their shoes. Hate it!
Curious, what TV show was it?
Still waiting for this. I'm thinking the doctor didn't actually say this exactly the way the OP is painting it.0 -
He's a terror. Typical chihuahua personality. Everyone that sees him always says "What a cute dog" then he growls at them and they're like "Man, he's a mean little guy". Either way, that's my best friend and I wouldn't change him for any other dog. He called eternal shotgun in the car.
Totally off topic, but I seriously want a long haired chihuahua. . . teacup if I can find one. :bigsmile:0 -
I too am doing it for me and agree with you about the MD's.....well said. I know my biggest struggle is stress and emotional eating....creeps up and sometimes gets the better of me.........I too can use the support rather than words from people who don't understand the daily fight :flowerforyou:
I think the most of the 'words' you reference are coming from people who not only understand the daily fight, but have overcome it. I think that's the source of some of the exasperation on this thread - those of us who have overcome the obstacles that have been put into our path are trying to show the way to those who (for whatever reason) say 'I can't'.
Do some people have more obstacles than others to contend with? Yes. Is it fair? No. But that's the reality of the situation. The question is: what are you going to *do* about it?
Edited for grammar...0 -
He's a terror. Typical chihuahua personality. Everyone that sees him always says "What a cute dog" then he growls at them and they're like "Man, he's a mean little guy". Either way, that's my best friend and I wouldn't change him for any other dog. He called eternal shotgun in the car.
Totally off topic, but I seriously want a long haired chihuahua. . . teacup if I can find one. :bigsmile:
I would give you my mother in laws but she'd kill me..she loves her Charlie dog...and that little female is a terror too...the teacup one..0 -
I too am doing it for me and agree with you about the MD's.....well said. I know my biggest struggle is stress and emotional eating....creeps up and sometimes gets the better of me.........I too can use the support rather than words from people who don't understand the daily fight :flowerforyou:
I think the most of the 'words' you reference are coming from people who not only understand the daily fight, but have overcome it. I think that's the source of some of the exasperation on this thread - those of us who have overcome the obstacles that have been put into our path are trying to show the way to those who (for whatever reason) say 'I can't'.
Do some people have more obstacles than others to contend with? Yes. Is it fair? No. But that's the reality of the situation. The question is: what are you going to *do* about it?
Edited for grammar...
exactly this.
try this for a daily fight...being a single mom, no child support, working a full time job, having family issues (mom and dad divorcing) actually having a not so funny stalker...who still is in the business of trying to make my life hell...
Everyone has their issues....everyone has their own "daily fight".....just because some (lots) have been successful on this site and offer advice doesn't mean we didn't have our own struggles.
and yes I consider myself a success...why because I learned from the previous people who are success and have passed it along to random people who have asked for my help.0 -
A lot of people don't want to be poor either, but don't lift a finger to educate themselves and invest their money wisely. If you want something badly enough then you work for it. Period.
ergh, if someone is homeless on the street and in poverty, education and wise investments don't help much. and of course, education costs a lot in some countries, so those in poverty cannot always afford education.
i don't know of one US city that doesn't have free career training. You can get free training in a lot of different career choices. However many people prefer to go sit on their *kitten* with a beer and watch TV instead of taking advantage of these.0 -
But the person is still making a choice to take the medication, because the benefits of taking it outweigh the consequences. It may not be a good choice, or a fair choice. It may be the case that no sane person would choose not to take the medication, regardless of how much weight gain it causes, but it's still a choice.Unfortunately what the doctor is saying is true. Being overweight or obese is self inflicted. No one is forcing someone to eat more than they should. Food to some is just as addicting as tobacco is to smokers. How many people truly feel sorry for someone who gets lung cancer after smoking for decades? Not many. How many people truly feel sorry for someone who is considered obese that dies, or contracts a related disease associated with their weight. Again not many.
Medication that causes weight gain is not self-inflicted.
And even then, it's not the medication that makes people gain weight is it? Isn't it that the medication causes them to be more hungry so they over eat and gain weight?
Wrong. It is usually entirely the medication that causes weight gain. Some medications are known to increase appetite which leads people to eat more, however, that's not the case for everyone.
And, the best reading comp fail of the day goes to . . .
exactly. there was a time in my life when i had to take steroids for asthma. steroids increase appetite. after a month i gained weight. i asked my doctor about it and she suggested that i take the steroids with a glass of milk instead of eating an entire meal. i ended up losing the weight i gained.
anyway, i think this thread is ruffling a few feathers because people put so much value judgments on being overweight and obese. the idea that someone CHOSE (whether by direct action or inaction) to be that way is a tough pill to swallow, but that doesnt make it any less true.
much of these things have a behavioral component and some people tend to want to confuse the biology or medical with the behavior. just because taking a medications makes you hungrier doesnt mean you have to eat, it doesn't mean that you NEED those extra calories because you are hungrier, it doesnt mean that you can't look for other alternatives.0 -
A lot of people don't want to be poor either, but don't lift a finger to educate themselves and invest their money wisely. If you want something badly enough then you work for it. Period.
ergh, if someone is homeless on the street and in poverty, education and wise investments don't help much. and of course, education costs a lot in some countries, so those in poverty cannot always afford education.
i don't know of one US city that doesn't have free career training. You can get free training in a lot of different career choices. However many people prefer to go sit on their *kitten* with a beer and watch TV instead of taking advantage of these.
Unfortunately you can still work your butt off and be poor. Depending on where you live and what you do for work.0 -
But the person is still making a choice to take the medication, because the benefits of taking it outweigh the consequences. It may not be a good choice, or a fair choice. It may be the case that no sane person would choose not to take the medication, regardless of how much weight gain it causes, but it's still a choice.Unfortunately what the doctor is saying is true. Being overweight or obese is self inflicted. No one is forcing someone to eat more than they should. Food to some is just as addicting as tobacco is to smokers. How many people truly feel sorry for someone who gets lung cancer after smoking for decades? Not many. How many people truly feel sorry for someone who is considered obese that dies, or contracts a related disease associated with their weight. Again not many.
Medication that causes weight gain is not self-inflicted.
And even then, it's not the medication that makes people gain weight is it? Isn't it that the medication causes them to be more hungry so they over eat and gain weight?
Wrong. It is usually entirely the medication that causes weight gain. Some medications are known to increase appetite which leads people to eat more, however, that's not the case for everyone.
And, the best reading comp fail of the day goes to . . .
exactly. there was a time in my life when i had to take steroids for asthma. steroids increase appetite. after a month i gained weight. i asked my doctor about it and she suggested that i take the steroids with a glass of milk instead of eating an entire meal. i ended up losing the weight i gained.
anyway, i think this thread is ruffling a few feathers because people put so much value judgments on being overweight and obese. the idea that someone CHOSE (whether by direct action or inaction) to be that way is a tough pill to swallow, but that doesnt make it any less true.
much of these things have a behavioral component and some people tend to want to confuse the biology or medical with the behavior. just because taking a medications makes you hungrier doesnt mean you have to eat, it doesn't mean that you NEED those extra calories because you are hungrier, it doesnt mean that you can't look for other alternatives.
Yeah, steroids increase appetite. But some medications that are directly linked to large amounts of weight gain, diabetes, and insulin resistance, don't increase appetite. Others do. It all depends on the medication. AND the amount of time a person takes the medication.
Despite people counting calories, weighing food, exercising, etc., they still put on weight because of the drug(s) they are taking.0 -
On the subject of wanting to be fat.
It's a matter of poor wording choice, in this instance, as many have said. Do I look in a mirror and think "Gee, I love my belly, I'll go eat a tub of ice cream." No, I do not. But at the same time I know that I struggle with my weight, and that I need to avoid to eat certain foods, and I need to be more active.
In the end, sometimes I do not want to exercise, so I choose not to. In doing so, I'm choosing a less healthy lifestyle, ergo, I want to be fat.
Emotional and medical issues aside, judging an overweight person as if each one is a lazy slob is wrong, and we each know that.
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Despite people counting calories, weighing food, exercising, etc., they still put on weight because of the drug(s) they are taking.
This is 100% correct!
I was on something in my teens when I was exercising a lot (soccer, swimming, skating, riding horses, running) and I was eating a strict diet, yet I gained due to medication messing with my bodies ability to burn fat.
But at the same time, many medications do simply increase appetite, and not actually cause the gain.0 -
Taking this out of order:I don't believe in judging people because of their size. Unless you know them on a personal level, you don't know the circumstances of why they are overweight and why they may or may not be doing anything. The first person I mentioned about saying she wished she could do what I am doing, I don't know that well, so I can't judge her very well based on her weight or whether she says she can do something or not.
Oh, I absolutely don't believe in judging people because of their size, although I also knew, when I was truly heavy, that I was judged by some, and that was one thing that I had to factor into how comfortable I was being that size. I didn't see the point of railing about it, because it just was.
It seems like a lot of this conversation is about is it a person's "fault" for being fat, as if that determined whether they should be judged harshly or not. My view is that "fault" isn't really the issue--but yes, in the vast majority of cases people's own decisions resulted in them gaining or not losing weight and they do have control over it--but that that doesn't mean that I therefore should judge myself harshly for getting fat or people heavier than me or whatever. I don't see why it's my business or even a bad thing if an individual doesn't mind being fat or prioritizes other things. I wonder if that would address some of the defensiveness here, which seems related to the idea that it's a BAD thing to be fat unless you can claim that you really, truly had no control over it.While there are SOME people out there who just don't care, I"m not sure it's fair to say all people who are overweight are that way because they want to be. I know someone who is and they told me they wish they could do what I was doing. (my running) I told her she could if she tried, but she said she couldn't. (Conversation never got past that point as we were interrupted with work.)
I had lots of reasons why I couldn't work out or didn't eat less too, and they were pretty much not true (and I even knew that). I didn't express these reasons to others, at least, but I did tell them to myself from time to time.
But the bigger point (again, not talking about people with medical issues, which is not the average person who needs to lose weight) is that there are barriers. One of the most significant, IMO, is that a lot of overweight people don't think they have any control or could do anything, they don't understand how or believe it would work. As a result, I think playing into the idea that they don't have control isn't especially helpful, although I also think that "just do it, lazy!" probably works with only a small percentage. Providing a strategy that is workable for people (which I think MFP does, among other tools) and convincing them that weight isn't just what they are given, but the result of actions and choices seems to me much more empowering. Like I've said, for a period of time I really just didn't care about being fat--I didn't like the way I looked, of course, but the tradeoff was acceptable to me. But part of this is that I knew I could lose weight when I was ready, since I'd done it and kept it off for years before, so didn't feel as helpless and like I just was doomed to be fat as I had before the first time.0 -
As a fat person trying to do something about it, I concur with the folks who say that for most people, it is a choice.
Probably less than 5% of folks have a true medical reason for inability to lose weight (and that number is probably an overestimation, it's probably closer to 1%).
I know from experience, that I got super fat because I like to eat high calorie/high fat food. Burgers, cheese fries, chinese food, pizza. I'd seriously eat that stuff everyday if it didn't cause weight gain/health problems.
Is weight loss hard? Heck yea. It's hard to change eating habits I've had my entire life. But I've realized that I had a choice to make. I can eat what I want when I want it, and die young from an obesity related illness OR I can suck it up and make the necessary lifestyle change to lose the weight.
And not to be a total jerk, but anyone who has an excuse for every single piece of advice given, is in denial and is making excuses. I've been in denial, trust me I know.0
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