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SunofaBeach14

They DO NOT! What an ignorant statement. Do some research. Those who do own small to moderate farms are being seized by the government. Just like in Zimbabwe. You are horribly misinformed.

Wait, aren't white people in South Africa pretty well off?

In spite of being the minority they control the vast majority of industry, land, and wealth.

That is white privilege. The notion that hard times, even overwhelming gross and disgusting circumstances, invalidates this is..laughable and shows a lack if understanding of the concept.

It's humbling, but I can sometimes be wrong. I did try to do a little research on your claims of white people being worse off than others in SA, and found this is highly controversial? This fact-checking site tends to disagree with what you're saying: http://africacheck.org/reports/are-white-afrikaners-really-being-killed-like-flies/

But if you have something else you think explains the other side well, I'd love to give it a look.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. yeah, this is a fine, trustworthy site to get your information from. just like i guessed a couple pages back, it's Fair and Balanced: Dark Continent Edition.

thanks for sharing

Are you really claiming that genocidewatch is politically biased? Have you even looked at the site other than the page I sent
? Is it really that much easier to ignore what is going on in SA than admit ehat is going on?

No words... i have no words. I urge you to research it on your own then. How anybody could deny what is happening is beyond me and makes me very sad. My heart is heavy, and grows more so. I am truly dumbfounded.

No one cares because it doesn't fit the model of sympathy that is popular in today's world. People will find any excuse to discredit it. They always do in times of mass slaughter and genocide. It's easier to argue race than it is to care about individuals who may be different than ourselves.

shireeniebeanie

WHEN WILL SOMEONE EXPLAIN HOW OBAMA GOT ELECTED TWICE?



are you guys not telling me because i'm black?

He obviously went to Gold Medal Astologist Baba Ji.

Sorry... late to the party, but this was the funniest thing I've read all day.

SunofaBeach14

Whites are majority in South Africa? Ever were a majority?

That's the point. They weren't the majority during Apartheid, so "majority privilege" really doesn't explain much about South Africa.

Everyone wants to put blanket statements on issues of race, economics, and privilege and you aren't going to come up with much of anything valid when you do this. Explain, for example, using the binary, single factor, white privilege model, the incredible success of Asians in America. Or hell, explain the success of Jews in Europe. Enjoy!

You're the one who introduced binary into this conversation, man. One group can be privileged AND another group can be privileged. It's not either/or. Intersectionality is all about how there are varying kinds of privilege, which interact and form our complex society.

One might even suggest that the notion of straight white male privilege in and of itself proves that privilege works to varying degrees, as it implies that there are more complexities and layers than just being white or just being a man or just being straight

I'm impressed. You've made it to three layers. Now, you throw a wealthy, politically connected non-white person into the mix and ZOMG! I wonder if his/her kids grow up privileged? I also have to wonder how privileged all those poor white families in West Virginia and Kentucky are. Let's just throw that out as not fitting our model though. They don't matter.

DjinnMarie

They DO NOT! What an ignorant statement. Do some research. Those who do own small to moderate farms are being seized by the government. Just like in Zimbabwe. You are horribly misinformed.

Wait, aren't white people in South Africa pretty well off?

In spite of being the minority they control the vast majority of industry, land, and wealth.

That is white privilege. The notion that hard times, even overwhelming gross and disgusting circumstances, invalidates this is..laughable and shows a lack if understanding of the concept.

It's humbling, but I can sometimes be wrong. I did try to do a little research on your claims of white people being worse off than others in SA, and found this is highly controversial? This fact-checking site tends to disagree with what you're saying: http://africacheck.org/reports/are-white-afrikaners-really-being-killed-like-flies/

But if you have something else you think explains the other side well, I'd love to give it a look.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. yeah, this is a fine, trustworthy site to get your information from. just like i guessed a couple pages back, it's Fair and Balanced: Dark Continent Edition.

thanks for sharing

Are you really claiming that genocidewatch is politically biased? Have you even looked at the site other than the page I sent
? Is it really that much easier to ignore what is going on in SA than admit ehat is going on?

No words... i have no words. I urge you to research it on your own then. How anybody could deny what is happening is beyond me and makes me very sad. My heart is heavy, and grows more so. I am truly dumbfounded.

No one cares because it doesn't fit the model of sympathy that is popular in today's world. People will find any excuse to discredit it. They always do in times of mass slaughter and genocide. It's easier to argue race than it is to care about individuals who may be different than ourselves.

Thats sad and I hope not true.

Regardless, i wish everybody a wonderful night and great weekend. This thread killed my wine buzz

hookilau

didn't someone mention cats earlier

lizzybathory

They DO NOT! What an ignorant statement. Do some research. Those who do own small to moderate farms are being seized by the government. Just like in Zimbabwe. You are horribly misinformed.

Wait, aren't white people in South Africa pretty well off?

In spite of being the minority they control the vast majority of industry, land, and wealth.

That is white privilege. The notion that hard times, even overwhelming gross and disgusting circumstances, invalidates this is..laughable and shows a lack if understanding of the concept.

It's humbling, but I can sometimes be wrong. I did try to do a little research on your claims of white people being worse off than others in SA, and found this is highly controversial? This fact-checking site tends to disagree with what you're saying: http://africacheck.org/reports/are-white-afrikaners-really-being-killed-like-flies/

But if you have something else you think explains the other side well, I'd love to give it a look.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. yeah, this is a fine, trustworthy site to get your information from. just like i guessed a couple pages back, it's Fair and Balanced: Dark Continent Edition.

thanks for sharing

Are you really claiming that genocidewatch is politically biased? Have you even looked at the site other than the page I sent
? Is it really that much easier to ignore what is going on in SA than admit ehat is going on?

No words... i have no words. I urge you to research it on your own then. How anybody could deny what is happening is beyond me and makes me very sad. My heart is heavy, and grows more so. I am truly dumbfounded.

All I'm saying is I would love to see it researched and verified by someone with greater investigative powers than myself. I'm having a really hard time finding anything to support this on anything I'd consider a reputable news site. I can't be a reporter, and go witness it, and talk to victims, and I don't know where to start looking for statistics; all I can see here is a site that collects letters saying this is happening, and stores them in PDFs.

It wouldn't be too far-fetched or difficult for me to find a bunch of people here in the US to write letters saying that white people are being exterminated by black people. (Some honestly believe it, though it's absolutely unfounded.) I could certainly create a website, and publish all sorts of letters on it. And you would be well justified to look for some more formal investigation of it. A news outlet covering my claims, statistics from official sources, things like that.

Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to do the kind of investigation that a journalist would, so since I haven't found much by way of actual journalism, I literally have nothing else to go off of. it's part of verifying internet sources. I'd do the same thing for any other website I'd never heard of before.

lizzybathory

Whites are majority in South Africa? Ever were a majority?

That's the point. They weren't the majority during Apartheid, so "majority privilege" really doesn't explain much about South Africa.

Everyone wants to put blanket statements on issues of race, economics, and privilege and you aren't going to come up with much of anything valid when you do this. Explain, for example, using the binary, single factor, white privilege model, the incredible success of Asians in America. Or hell, explain the success of Jews in Europe. Enjoy!

You're the one who introduced binary into this conversation, man. One group can be privileged AND another group can be privileged. It's not either/or. Intersectionality is all about how there are varying kinds of privilege, which interact and form our complex society.

One might even suggest that the notion of straight white male privilege in and of itself proves that privilege works to varying degrees, as it implies that there are more complexities and layers than just being white or just being a man or just being straight

I'm impressed. You've made it to three layers. Now, you throw a wealthy, politically connected non-white person into the mix and ZOMG! I wonder if his/her kids grow up privileged? I also have to wonder how privileged all those poor white families in West Virginia and Kentucky are. Let's just throw that out as not fitting our model though. They don't matter.

I wonder if they're more or less privileged than the black people next door in similar economic conditions...

DavPul

This is directly from genocide.org. No a republish of articles. If you don't think genocide.org is legit, then I don't know what else to say. It's like saying the mayo clinic is full of chit.

......

well....umm....perhaps i'm not following correctly, because, i mean, there's a lot going on in this thread....so i could be mistaken....but did you just attempt to establish the veracity of a SUPAH questionable propaganda website by printing something written by the president of that very website?

i'm not a lawyer by any means, but perhaps we can get one to weigh in on this? Beach, is this a proper way to establish the credibility of genocidewatch.org?







and did she just compare genocidewatch.org with the Mayo Clinic? Beach, my friend, where you at on dis?

lizzybathory

This is directly from genocide.org. No a republish of articles. If you don't think genocide.org is legit, then I don't know what else to say. It's like saying the mayo clinic is full of chit.

......

well....umm....perhaps i'm not following correctly, because, i mean, there's a lot going on in this thread....so i could be mistaken....but did you just attempt to establish the veracity of a SUPAH questionable propaganda website by printing something written by the president of that very website?

i'm not a lawyer by any means, but perhaps we can get one to weigh in on this? Beach, is this a proper way to establish the credibility of genocidewatch.org?







and did she just compare genocidewatch.org with the Mayo Clinic? Beach, my friend, where you at on dis?

I'm no lawyer, but as a librarian, the reputability of this site is making my head spin.

SunofaBeach14

Whites are majority in South Africa? Ever were a majority?

That's the point. They weren't the majority during Apartheid, so "majority privilege" really doesn't explain much about South Africa.

Everyone wants to put blanket statements on issues of race, economics, and privilege and you aren't going to come up with much of anything valid when you do this. Explain, for example, using the binary, single factor, white privilege model, the incredible success of Asians in America. Or hell, explain the success of Jews in Europe. Enjoy!

You're the one who introduced binary into this conversation, man. One group can be privileged AND another group can be privileged. It's not either/or. Intersectionality is all about how there are varying kinds of privilege, which interact and form our complex society.

One might even suggest that the notion of straight white male privilege in and of itself proves that privilege works to varying degrees, as it implies that there are more complexities and layers than just being white or just being a man or just being straight

I'm impressed. You've made it to three layers. Now, you throw a wealthy, politically connected non-white person into the mix and ZOMG! I wonder if his/her kids grow up privileged? I also have to wonder how privileged all those poor white families in West Virginia and Kentucky are. Let's just throw that out as not fitting our model though. They don't matter.

I wonder if they're more or less privileged than the black people next door in similar economic conditions...

How much does it matter? What are the factors that do matter? By constantly focusing on white privilege above all else are we losing something in the mix? If you want to simplify the world because it's easier for you, be my guest, but it's intellectually lazy and bordering on dishonest.

DavPul

Here's some support for what she's saying: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/30/15571149-killings-of-white-farmers-highlight-toxic-apartheid-legacy-in-south-africa

"For while South Africa's overall annual murder rate has more than halved since the end of apartheid to around 32 people per 100,000, figures for commercial farmers show a near 50 percent rise to an average rate of some 290 per 100,000 a year in the five years to 2011."

But, of course, from the same source: "Land ownership ratios are little changed from 1913, when the Natives' Land Act set aside 87 percent of land for whites."

weird. if you take an entire country's land away from it's indigenous people, keep those people poor and starving under an oppressive system that was enforced by atrocious acts of violence, and then finally "free" those people but keep all of the wealth that comes from land ownership to yourself....those people might eventually rebel and act in a terribly destructive and violent way?

lizzybathory

Whites are majority in South Africa? Ever were a majority?

That's the point. They weren't the majority during Apartheid, so "majority privilege" really doesn't explain much about South Africa.

Everyone wants to put blanket statements on issues of race, economics, and privilege and you aren't going to come up with much of anything valid when you do this. Explain, for example, using the binary, single factor, white privilege model, the incredible success of Asians in America. Or hell, explain the success of Jews in Europe. Enjoy!

You're the one who introduced binary into this conversation, man. One group can be privileged AND another group can be privileged. It's not either/or. Intersectionality is all about how there are varying kinds of privilege, which interact and form our complex society.

One might even suggest that the notion of straight white male privilege in and of itself proves that privilege works to varying degrees, as it implies that there are more complexities and layers than just being white or just being a man or just being straight

I'm impressed. You've made it to three layers. Now, you throw a wealthy, politically connected non-white person into the mix and ZOMG! I wonder if his/her kids grow up privileged? I also have to wonder how privileged all those poor white families in West Virginia and Kentucky are. Let's just throw that out as not fitting our model though. They don't matter.

I wonder if they're more or less privileged than the black people next door in similar economic conditions...

How much does it matter? What are the factors that do matter? By constantly focusing on white privilege above all else are we losing something in the mix? If you want to simplify the world because it's easier for you, be my guest, but it's intellectually lazy and bordering on dishonest.

You think discussions on privilege are simplifying and lazy?

What are the factors that matter? The ones that make life unfairly hard on some people and not others. Which is often whiteness. Or maleness. Or straightness. There are plenty of privileges outside of those, but those are the more universal ones. So yes, it does matter.

SunofaBeach14

Whites are majority in South Africa? Ever were a majority?

That's the point. They weren't the majority during Apartheid, so "majority privilege" really doesn't explain much about South Africa.

Everyone wants to put blanket statements on issues of race, economics, and privilege and you aren't going to come up with much of anything valid when you do this. Explain, for example, using the binary, single factor, white privilege model, the incredible success of Asians in America. Or hell, explain the success of Jews in Europe. Enjoy!

You're the one who introduced binary into this conversation, man. One group can be privileged AND another group can be privileged. It's not either/or. Intersectionality is all about how there are varying kinds of privilege, which interact and form our complex society.

One might even suggest that the notion of straight white male privilege in and of itself proves that privilege works to varying degrees, as it implies that there are more complexities and layers than just being white or just being a man or just being straight

I'm impressed. You've made it to three layers. Now, you throw a wealthy, politically connected non-white person into the mix and ZOMG! I wonder if his/her kids grow up privileged? I also have to wonder how privileged all those poor white families in West Virginia and Kentucky are. Let's just throw that out as not fitting our model though. They don't matter.

I wonder if they're more or less privileged than the black people next door in similar economic conditions...

How much does it matter? What are the factors that do matter? By constantly focusing on white privilege above all else are we losing something in the mix? If you want to simplify the world because it's easier for you, be my guest, but it's intellectually lazy and bordering on dishonest.

You think discussions on privilege are simplifying and lazy?

What are the factors that matter? The ones that make life unfairly hard on some people and not others. Which is often whiteness. Or maleness. Or straightness. There are plenty of privileges outside of those, but those are the more universal ones. So yes, it does matter.

Brilliant. Enjoy your library.

SunofaBeach14

Here's some support for what she's saying: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/30/15571149-killings-of-white-farmers-highlight-toxic-apartheid-legacy-in-south-africa

"For while South Africa's overall annual murder rate has more than halved since the end of apartheid to around 32 people per 100,000, figures for commercial farmers show a near 50 percent rise to an average rate of some 290 per 100,000 a year in the five years to 2011."

But, of course, from the same source: "Land ownership ratios are little changed from 1913, when the Natives' Land Act set aside 87 percent of land for whites."

weird. if you take an entire country's land away from it's indigenous people, keep those people poor and starving under an oppressive system that was enforced by atrocious acts of violence, and then finally "free" those people but keep all of the wealth that comes from land ownership to yourself....those people might eventually rebel and act in a terribly destructive and violent way?

Those children certainly deserve it. Right?