A Personal View on Exercise Cals and Underfeeding
ladyhawk00
Posts: 2,457 Member
The debate on exercise cals and underfeeding will never go away. It is hot, and often turns into a free-for-all, with each "side" passionately defending themselves.
I think there are two things at play here. First, there are definitely people who go too far both ways in the debate. Some demanding that everyone should eat their exercise cals and throwing around the term "starvation mode" far too liberally and recklessly, without a true understanding of it. Others swear by not eating them and can't understand why you would eat MORE when you're trying to lose weight. Basically, IMO, it boils down to - if you don't have a lot to lose (30 lbs or less), and are accurate with intake/burns, you should probably eat them. But there are a lot of variables here and if one is off, it may not work for you.
The other part is, I think for the most part people aren't trying to be rude or attack anyone. I think there is genuine concern and people want to see everyone be successful. But, unfortunately, there are some people who don't know how to explain it, or exactly how it all works - they just believe in it and sometimes apply it with a rather large brush, on both sides.
The trouble with not providing enough fuel is that you don't all of a sudden pop up with a big sign on your forehead announcing "Starvation Mode" or "Underfeeding". It is a very gradual process, that can take months or years to set in, and may take even longer to show any visible signs, especially if you are JUST under the amount your body needs. Not eating enough will not make you collapse on "the 3rd day", or even after a year. There's no set time limit - again, there are a lot of variables. Some people may be able to last for years that way - I did.
To give you a synopsis of my story (and why this is important to me.) I struggled with eating disorders for many years. I never had enough discipline to get to the point that I was really ill - but I did do plenty of damage. Eventually, I got out of the worst of it, but I settled into a routine that was still a long ways from healthy. I started gaining weight about 2 years after my son was born. I never ate breakfast, rarely ate lunch, ate a good dinner and snacked all evening. I did no purposeful exercise. I never drank water. I drank a lot of soda. The food I ate was overall pretty healthy; good protein, good carbs, not too bad on fat, very little fast food, and my snacks were generally pretty good (though of course I did do too much carbs). But at the end of the day, my intake was probably around 800-1200 most days and probably half of that was from soda. Then I would have occasional binges where I probably took in 2500-3000 in a day. But this definitely did NOT bring me up to a good daily intake, even when averaged out. So I sat at a daily average intake of around 1000-1200 for about 5 years. My BMR is about 1500, and maintenance cals at sedentary are about 2000. So I should have been losing weight, right?
I spent a several years frustrated and discouraged - even with quite a bit of education in nutrition, I couldn't understand how I could eat so little and gain 40 lbs over 5 years. I wasn't hungry. I ate good food. What I didn't understand was that I had been underfeeding and carb-loading. While the food I ate wasn't bad - there wasn't enough of it, and eating it all in a short period of time told my body "There isn't much of this, so hold on to it". I trained my body to increase fat stores gradually, through a very slow process of underfeeding.
For short periods when I did have a lot of physical activity (usually summer) I would lose a little weight - 5-15 lbs. Often, I was well within a healthy BMI range. But because I wasn't eating enough, the weight I lost was muscle. There was nothing drastic about it, but over 5 years I lost probably half of my muscle mass and doubled or tripled my fat. So even when I was "thinner", I was the dreaded "skinny fat". I had no muscle tone, whatsoever. I did not provide my body with enough fuel to maintain the muscle - so it ate it and stored fat to compensate.
Until I educated myself on the matter, I didn't understand. I figured I was just getting the "middle age spread." But I had lowered my metabolism and convinced my body to increase fat storage and burn muscle, because I told it that we were in for a long fight and there wasn't going to be much fuel coming in.
I'm losing weight now, but it will be a rather long and difficult process of turning this around. I struggle to eat as much as I should. After spending years suppressing my appetite, it is HARD to eat sometimes. I'm still often not hungry. I'm still in the process of retraining my body to send normal hunger cues, and still retraining my mind how to recognize them. It won't happen overnight. Bad eating habits, whether it's overeating or undereating, take just as long to fix as they did to get set.
So while eating under goal and "eating when hungry" may be working for you now, don't assume that it always will - or that you will know right away when it's not working. It can be a very sinister and silent process. I hope you're successful, no matter what strategy you use. And I took the time to type this out because I care. Yes, you're just a stranger at a computer hundreds of miles away, and I've never met you, and am not likely to. But I'd hate to see you or anyone else go through the frustration and depression that I went through because of underfeeding.
P.S. Sorry this is so long, but hopefully worth the read.
I think there are two things at play here. First, there are definitely people who go too far both ways in the debate. Some demanding that everyone should eat their exercise cals and throwing around the term "starvation mode" far too liberally and recklessly, without a true understanding of it. Others swear by not eating them and can't understand why you would eat MORE when you're trying to lose weight. Basically, IMO, it boils down to - if you don't have a lot to lose (30 lbs or less), and are accurate with intake/burns, you should probably eat them. But there are a lot of variables here and if one is off, it may not work for you.
The other part is, I think for the most part people aren't trying to be rude or attack anyone. I think there is genuine concern and people want to see everyone be successful. But, unfortunately, there are some people who don't know how to explain it, or exactly how it all works - they just believe in it and sometimes apply it with a rather large brush, on both sides.
The trouble with not providing enough fuel is that you don't all of a sudden pop up with a big sign on your forehead announcing "Starvation Mode" or "Underfeeding". It is a very gradual process, that can take months or years to set in, and may take even longer to show any visible signs, especially if you are JUST under the amount your body needs. Not eating enough will not make you collapse on "the 3rd day", or even after a year. There's no set time limit - again, there are a lot of variables. Some people may be able to last for years that way - I did.
To give you a synopsis of my story (and why this is important to me.) I struggled with eating disorders for many years. I never had enough discipline to get to the point that I was really ill - but I did do plenty of damage. Eventually, I got out of the worst of it, but I settled into a routine that was still a long ways from healthy. I started gaining weight about 2 years after my son was born. I never ate breakfast, rarely ate lunch, ate a good dinner and snacked all evening. I did no purposeful exercise. I never drank water. I drank a lot of soda. The food I ate was overall pretty healthy; good protein, good carbs, not too bad on fat, very little fast food, and my snacks were generally pretty good (though of course I did do too much carbs). But at the end of the day, my intake was probably around 800-1200 most days and probably half of that was from soda. Then I would have occasional binges where I probably took in 2500-3000 in a day. But this definitely did NOT bring me up to a good daily intake, even when averaged out. So I sat at a daily average intake of around 1000-1200 for about 5 years. My BMR is about 1500, and maintenance cals at sedentary are about 2000. So I should have been losing weight, right?
I spent a several years frustrated and discouraged - even with quite a bit of education in nutrition, I couldn't understand how I could eat so little and gain 40 lbs over 5 years. I wasn't hungry. I ate good food. What I didn't understand was that I had been underfeeding and carb-loading. While the food I ate wasn't bad - there wasn't enough of it, and eating it all in a short period of time told my body "There isn't much of this, so hold on to it". I trained my body to increase fat stores gradually, through a very slow process of underfeeding.
For short periods when I did have a lot of physical activity (usually summer) I would lose a little weight - 5-15 lbs. Often, I was well within a healthy BMI range. But because I wasn't eating enough, the weight I lost was muscle. There was nothing drastic about it, but over 5 years I lost probably half of my muscle mass and doubled or tripled my fat. So even when I was "thinner", I was the dreaded "skinny fat". I had no muscle tone, whatsoever. I did not provide my body with enough fuel to maintain the muscle - so it ate it and stored fat to compensate.
Until I educated myself on the matter, I didn't understand. I figured I was just getting the "middle age spread." But I had lowered my metabolism and convinced my body to increase fat storage and burn muscle, because I told it that we were in for a long fight and there wasn't going to be much fuel coming in.
I'm losing weight now, but it will be a rather long and difficult process of turning this around. I struggle to eat as much as I should. After spending years suppressing my appetite, it is HARD to eat sometimes. I'm still often not hungry. I'm still in the process of retraining my body to send normal hunger cues, and still retraining my mind how to recognize them. It won't happen overnight. Bad eating habits, whether it's overeating or undereating, take just as long to fix as they did to get set.
So while eating under goal and "eating when hungry" may be working for you now, don't assume that it always will - or that you will know right away when it's not working. It can be a very sinister and silent process. I hope you're successful, no matter what strategy you use. And I took the time to type this out because I care. Yes, you're just a stranger at a computer hundreds of miles away, and I've never met you, and am not likely to. But I'd hate to see you or anyone else go through the frustration and depression that I went through because of underfeeding.
P.S. Sorry this is so long, but hopefully worth the read.
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Replies
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What you have to say has a lot of medical merit. Thank you for the time you put into this. I greatly appreciate it. Bottom line...If you have been on this roller coaster like most of us have you have to be patient and do it right. It is going to take longer than you want it to because of the damage we have done our bodies (most people are on this roller coaster) and you need to do this right if you want to get off this ride.0
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Thaks for this one. Even though i hope i eat as i should it is important to think about your eating habits. Why? When? and How Much?0
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thank you for an informative post. I kinda see myself in your words as well..........sigh, but I guess were all in the same boat. I agree with the issue of eating/not eating your exercise cals......
Thanks for taking the time to type all that information. I use it , and lots of other information on here to help in my weight loss journey...Lloyd0 -
Thank you for such an honest account of your story. It is also nice to read a post on this topic that is "sane" - not overdramatized or hyperbolic. Your story and mine are very similar, in the way that weight was gained. I never thought when I was a size 0 that I would be sitting where I am today, but I am trying to reverse the damage that I've done. Good luck in your journey, you should be incredibly proud of making the decision to choose health, and not illness.0
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Great post, thank you. I've been going through a similar process. I know I need to build the muscle for the fat to come off. Thanks for sharing!0
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Great post, it took courage to write.0
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Thank you so much! I lost a pound a week on this system, but I over-carbed and under-protiened. My skin is saggy on my arms and rear, because I also lost muscle during the process. Once I reached my goal, I evaluated my body and am trying to eat more protien--but I really, really like carbs so much more!
This is a life-long process. I learn from my body's reaction to food and activity, and also from other people's experiences.
Thank you so much for sharing! Hugs, :drinker: (lots of water)0 -
Thank you for sharing this with us all. You have said a mouthful here. There is a lot of controversy over exercise calories and starvation mode. I really enjoyed you sharing this, and appreciate you so much. Good luck to you in your journey.0
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I hope this helps more people gain a better understanding and start having a healthier relationship with food. This took heart, thank you :-)0
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Thank you so much for writing this!0
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Thank you for posting this... Hearing about your experience is very helpful. Sometimes it can be soooo hard to understand our bodies and understand what we are supposed to be doing. But its helpful being on here, having people to lean on... that can give advice and tell us their story. THANKS!0
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Very thought out, heart felt post. I struggled my whole life with my weight. My recent weight loss (almost 90 lbs) over 2 1/2 years did not come easy and i am struggling with the last 10-15 lbs. I too ate so little for so long. Now that I am trying to do this the right way, my body actually gained alittle weight from eating more. I know eventually it will kick in again but i have to say it is so scary. I work out alot and find it hard to eat as much as i should but I am working on it.
Thank you for your great comments and your advise. Please remember me when you have a good tip. I will try to keep my net calories to 1200 and see if this works. I realized i was only netting 700-800 each day.
Thanks again for sharing yoru story.0 -
thanks for your post. I've struggled with the same thing. i've always had a kind of disordered thinking about food that has led down paths of disordered eating. like you, i never "had the discipline to make myself truly ill" but i was far from healthy. since joined mfp, it has been very helpful to read others' posts and get healthy direction on how to eat better and exercise well. my first step was signing a "health contract" with my husband that said i would eat 3 meals a day, only 3 desserts per week, etc. i've read about some people's debates on "eating back calories" and i really think you need to learn to listen to your body. maybe you'll eat back some, maybe you won't, but in the end "starvation mode" does take a long time to develop. if you're under on calories 1 -3 days, it's not a huge deal. but consistently being hundreds of calories under could backfire. it all comes down to learning your body instead of all the wide-sweeping generalizations. i haven't figured it all out yet, but i'm trying.
good luck on your journey to better health!0 -
Thanks for posting! I have to be completely honest. I have tried many different "diets" in the past 5 or 10 years and I have NEVER been told to "eat my exercise calories". Not once. They all have promoted a low calorie diet with high calorie burns. The only one that I can think of the encouraged you to eat your calorie burn would be Weight Watchers. But they never explained it in a way where I understood why. They just said, if you do X, you earn X many more points to eat, and I was just happy that if I exercised, I at least could eat some more. (Oink).
So, my mind never really added two and two. Then I came to this site about 2 weeks ago, and started exploring the message boards, I found A LOT of the talk you speak of in your post about "starvation mode" and "eating your calorie burn". This made no sense to me at first until I read on and on and on. Post after post about it. Then it clicked! Maybe this is why I have been dieting for 5-10 years. Because it NEVER comes off and maybe this is why? I still sometimes have a hard time eating all the calories that I burn but I can definitely say that I am eating more than the 1200 a day that other diets recommend for me. I can also say that this makes it much easier for me to stick with too because sometimes I am ravenous after a good workout! I hope this is the answer to my years of struggling! 0 -
thank you so much for this post. i agree with everything.0
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Thank you ! iam trying to eat back my exercise calories on a daily basis now.0
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Very thought out, heart felt post. I struggled my whole life with my weight. My recent weight loss (almost 90 lbs) over 2 1/2 years did not come easy and i am struggling with the last 10-15 lbs. I too ate so little for so long. Now that I am trying to do this the right way, my body actually gained alittle weight from eating more. I know eventually it will kick in again but i have to say it is so scary. I work out alot and find it hard to eat as much as i should but I am working on it.
Thank you for your great comments and your advise. Please remember me when you have a good tip. I will try to keep my net calories to 1200 and see if this works. I realized i was only netting 700-800 each day.
Thanks again for sharing yoru story.
The initial gain is quite common and natural. It will take time for your body to get out of the fat storage cycle. But it will. The body's natural inclination (especially for women) is to have a decent fat percentage to be prepared for lean times and child rearing. So those last 10-15 lbs are hard ones - you're fighting biology. But with dedication and a healthy approach that coaxes the body, rather than punishes it, you can be successful. Good luck to you!0 -
Thank you all for the positive and appreciative comments. MFP, and all of you, make it a lot easier to stay committed and keep health as the number one priority. If my struggles can help anyone, it motivates me to stay strong. Thanks again!
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Thank you for such an honest account of your story. It is also nice to read a post on this topic that is "sane" - not overdramatized or hyperbolic.
I agree. This was very refreshing to read. Thanks, ladyhawk!0 -
Bump.
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Your story could be my story.
I am still struggling to lose weight...after nearly 2 years and multiple tests and methods. Never give up is my motto!!
You will find me posting regularly on MFP, advocating to people that they eat enough. Don't mess up your metabolism. Fuel that fire!
Good luck to you as well.0 -
bump and thanks!!!0
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I have also been on this ride. Don't like it, don't want to get on it again. I had help from a doctor, dietician and nutritionist to get back on track over a few months time. I did gain when I first started upping my calories. I am going for healthy this time, losing much slower, and enjoying life much more. No more wanting to hybernate, no more afternoon slump, no more sleeping less than 5 hours a night. No more mood swings from cutting carbs out of my diet. No more heartburn. I had stopped feeling hungry, I would go all day without eatting sometines. Now with regular scheduled eatting times my body is now starting to tell me when it needs fed again. I am not craving the carbs and sugar my body wanted for quick energy. I am doing light-moderate cardio and strength training until I get more flubber off, but plan on ramping it up in a couple more months.
It can be a difficult ride to get off, but it can be done. It takes time, patience and common sense. Thank you for posting your story. Some will believe, some won't. Sometimes you just have to ride the ride till the end before you see the light.0 -
I just wanted to say thanks for posting and for keeping me in line and for all the encouragement you give to me and others!0
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good post lh.
I think the term "starvation mode" is my biggest pet peeve on MFP. Not only from those who say it's a myth but also those who say it's always the reason. Anyway, I'll have to be reciprocal in this post and bump it since you're always bumping mine.
-Banks0 -
I have also been on this ride. Don't like it, don't want to get on it again. I had help from a doctor, dietician and nutritionist to get back on track over a few months time. I did gain when I first started upping my calories. I am going for healthy this time, losing much slower, and enjoying life much more. No more wanting to hybernate, no more afternoon slump, no more sleeping less than 5 hours a night. No more mood swings from cutting carbs out of my diet. No more heartburn. I had stopped feeling hungry, I would go all day without eatting sometines. Now with regular scheduled eatting times my body is now starting to tell me when it needs fed again. I am not craving the carbs and sugar my body wanted for quick energy. I am doing light-moderate cardio and strength training until I get more flubber off, but plan on ramping it up in a couple more months.
It can be a difficult ride to get off, but it can be done. It takes time, patience and common sense. Thank you for posting your story. Some will believe, some won't. Sometimes you just have to ride the ride till the end before you see the light.
Can't agree enough! Had all those problems and more. Sometimes we insist on learning the hard way! I'm just glad I am doing it the right way now and I know now I CAN be successful. Cheers!0 -
good post lh.
I think the term "starvation mode" is my biggest pet peeve on MFP. Not only from those who say it's a myth but also those who say it's always the reason. Anyway, I'll have to be reciprocal in this post and bump it since you're always bumping mine.
-Banks
Thanks, Banks! I'm sure I've been guilty of it too - enthusiasm is sometimes blinding. Trying to remember to keep my own in check and not be fanatical or miss parts of the equation - and educate myself so I can speak intelligently about it. 0 -
good post lh.
I think the term "starvation mode" is my biggest pet peeve on MFP. Not only from those who say it's a myth but also those who say it's always the reason. Anyway, I'll have to be reciprocal in this post and bump it since you're always bumping mine.
-Banks
Thanks, Banks! I'm sure I've been guilty of it too - enthusiasm is sometimes blinding. Trying to remember to keep my own in check and not be fanatical or miss parts of the equation - and educate myself so I can speak intelligently about it.
how are you at bio-chemistry? I have an awesome book, but you really need to know how to read organic chem formulas pretty well to understand the first half. You don't have to be a chemist, but you have to be competent at chemistry on a college level. If you are, I'll give you the book title. It's a text, and expensive, but SOOOOO worth the money if you're into the science behind the human metabolism.0 -
good post lh.
I think the term "starvation mode" is my biggest pet peeve on MFP. Not only from those who say it's a myth but also those who say it's always the reason. Anyway, I'll have to be reciprocal in this post and bump it since you're always bumping mine.
-Banks
Thanks, Banks! I'm sure I've been guilty of it too - enthusiasm is sometimes blinding. Trying to remember to keep my own in check and not be fanatical or miss parts of the equation - and educate myself so I can speak intelligently about it.
how are you at bio-chemistry? I have an awesome book, but you really need to know how to read organic chem formulas pretty well to understand the first half. You don't have to be a chemist, but you have to be competent at chemistry on a college level. If you are, I'll give you the book title. It's a text, and expensive, but SOOOOO worth the money if you're into the science behind the human metabolism.
I took bio-chem in college and have a decent grasp of it, though some of it is still a bit over my head. I'd be very interested in the book - but I may pester you with questions when they come up! :laugh:0 -
good post lh.
I think the term "starvation mode" is my biggest pet peeve on MFP. Not only from those who say it's a myth but also those who say it's always the reason. Anyway, I'll have to be reciprocal in this post and bump it since you're always bumping mine.
-Banks
Thanks, Banks! I'm sure I've been guilty of it too - enthusiasm is sometimes blinding. Trying to remember to keep my own in check and not be fanatical or miss parts of the equation - and educate myself so I can speak intelligently about it.
how are you at bio-chemistry? I have an awesome book, but you really need to know how to read organic chem formulas pretty well to understand the first half. You don't have to be a chemist, but you have to be competent at chemistry on a college level. If you are, I'll give you the book title. It's a text, and expensive, but SOOOOO worth the money if you're into the science behind the human metabolism.
I took bio-chem in college and have a decent grasp of it, though some of it is still a bit over my head. I'd be very interested in the book - but I may pester you with questions when they come up! :laugh:
hehe, for that book, I probably won't have the answers, it's very advanced. But even if you only get 1/2 of it, you've made out.
the book is called
"Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism" 5th Edition (I actually read 4th edition, but I guess the differences are minor between the two). You can get it off B&N (look for used copies), it's like $160 or so, but I picked up a used copy for about $85, you might even be able to find it at those college text book websites where you can rent books for a few months. I don't know, I wanted my own copy so I could mark it up and fold pages and stuff.
I did a lot of research into what to use as my main research tool, and this book was head and shoulders above the rest as far as editorial and content reviews by peers (I.E. nutritional scientists and professors), so that's why I got it. It took me almost a month to get through, which is a lifetime for me, as I read really fast, and can get though most 400 page paperback novels in two to three days or less.0
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