A Personal View on Exercise Cals and Underfeeding

dlaplume2

Thank you for posting. I hope all the people who are reading posts about starvation mode being a myth take a stop here too.

Thanks again for sharing.

robin52077

Very good post.

I found this out when I got my BodyMediaFit.
On the standard 1200 that MFP likes to throw around, I was weak, tired, and cranky. Turns out I naturally burn 1800-2200 a day living my life, so I was STARVING. I decided to bump up: MFP gave me 1500 as "maintenance" and I lost even more! Well yeah, that was still a 500 cal a day deficit at what they called maintenance. I had to put my lifestyle up to very active to get them to say 1700, and I do go over that most days, and my numbers turn red, but I don't care because I am full, alert, have energy to work out and do my job, and I am not gaining.
(and as a reference point: I am 5'2" and weigh 104 lbs, so if 1200 is starving for ME, it is probably starving to 95% of people who read this, because the bigger you are the more you need to survive.)

I have been advising anyone who will listen that 1200 is too low and to eat more.

for a 5'2" woman 1800 yes, I could see that as maintenance if you were relatively active, but 2200, you might have something up there. That's super high for a woman your size. I've done a lot of research into this area and if I'm not mistaken (I'd have to go back and look) that would put you in the top ten percent of RMR for women over the age of 30 at 5'2", maybe even the top five, very rare, you should be happy for that if you've been metabolically cleared.

hmmm thanks for the info Banks... The one day I slept like 14 hours because I was sick I still had 1600, but the day I hit 2200 I worked a 14 hour crazy busy shift running around on my feet all day.
A NORMAL day with an easy 8 hour work shift and some cardio and strength training (never more than an hour) has been coming in at anywhere from 18-2000.
Maybe I am just "high and lucky"....or the BodyMediaFit is really wrong, but if it was I would start to gain if I eat what it says...I'll keep my eyes open....

ladyhawk00

time to break out my special "Banks" bump I save for special posts.

Aww Thanks! :blushing:

ladyhawk00

I enjoy reading your posts because they are so eloquently put and well thought-out. I don't think you have overthought anything and am thankful that you posted this.

Thank you, Cee - so nice to hear! :bigsmile:

radwan_masri

Hey; thank you for this.

SHBoss1673

Very good post.

I found this out when I got my BodyMediaFit.
On the standard 1200 that MFP likes to throw around, I was weak, tired, and cranky. Turns out I naturally burn 1800-2200 a day living my life, so I was STARVING. I decided to bump up: MFP gave me 1500 as "maintenance" and I lost even more! Well yeah, that was still a 500 cal a day deficit at what they called maintenance. I had to put my lifestyle up to very active to get them to say 1700, and I do go over that most days, and my numbers turn red, but I don't care because I am full, alert, have energy to work out and do my job, and I am not gaining.
(and as a reference point: I am 5'2" and weigh 104 lbs, so if 1200 is starving for ME, it is probably starving to 95% of people who read this, because the bigger you are the more you need to survive.)

I have been advising anyone who will listen that 1200 is too low and to eat more.

for a 5'2" woman 1800 yes, I could see that as maintenance if you were relatively active, but 2200, you might have something up there. That's super high for a woman your size. I've done a lot of research into this area and if I'm not mistaken (I'd have to go back and look) that would put you in the top ten percent of RMR for women over the age of 30 at 5'2", maybe even the top five, very rare, you should be happy for that if you've been metabolically cleared.

hmmm thanks for the info Banks... The one day I slept like 14 hours because I was sick I still had 1600, but the day I hit 2200 I worked a 14 hour crazy busy shift running around on my feet all day.
A NORMAL day with an easy 8 hour work shift and some cardio and strength training (never more than an hour) has been coming in at anywhere from 18-2000.
Maybe I am just "high and lucky"....or the BodyMediaFit is really wrong, but if it was I would start to gain if I eat what it says...I'll keep my eyes open....

ok so you're including exercise in this total? that's different. I didn't realize that. Yes, 2200's normal if you add an hour of cardio (I could see up to 2500 in that case, depending on the intensity, and the rest of your day)

BigBoneSista

You know your words are always appreciated. You are very insightful and because of your journalism skills you are able to reach people in a positive and thoughtful way. Others have tried and failed but your words speak volumes. Thank you for your post.

Dobsaya

I think that people underestimate there calories. I was eating 1300-1500 calories a day with my exercise calories and on a plateau for 3 weeks. I got my bodymedia and it has me burning anywhere from 2800 t0 3300 calories a day. At first I thought it was overestimating but after about a week of these reading I increased my calories to 2000-2200 a day. Guess what I started losing weight 4 days after the increase. I have lost 3 pounds in the last 10 days with this increased diet. Note that I am a 35 year old women who no doubt has had a decrease in metabolic activity. The first response to plateau is decrease intake. The opposite worked for me.

vox23

Honestly, this whole topic freaks me out a bit. After reading another thread the other day I asked my trainer what his take was. Of course it was the same as yours. You must maintain a healthy net calorie intake at the end of the day in order to sustain your body after workout and not undereat.

I find myself often working out twice a day, that adds up to roughly 1000 workout calories, and I'm often under my net goal at the end of the day. At first I thought, that's awesome! I've lost 65 lbs so far trying to workout and eat less, and it's worked so far, but my fear is it will backfire now on me well before I reach my goal.

My biggest problem is, when your goal is 1500 food calories and you have to eat another 1000 workout calories, how do you do that eating the proper foods. Add on a couple starbucks and a big ol bag of buttery popcorn and it would be easy, but the goal is to steer clear of that kind of stuff right!? Goodness, I can only eat so many walnuts and apples, and it still wouldn't up my calories to where I'm eating them all back.

For the first time I am feeling frustrated about this. Maybe I just need to eat more at each of my meals? (My meals roughly gage 400 cal)?

The last thing I want to do is go into "starvation mode".

Mindful_Trent

For the first time I am feeling frustrated about this. Maybe I just need to eat more at each of my meals? (My meals roughly gage 400 cal)?

The last thing I want to do is go into "starvation mode".

Adding more at each meal is a GREAT idea, especially on days you know you'll be working out (or you're definitely planning to). It's not as overwhelming to add a few hundred calories here or there, rather than have 500-1000 left at the end of the day! It's easy to add extra calories to things like salads - add in nuts, seeds, avocado, dried fruit, etc. Use whole-fat or low-fat instead of fat-free dairy. Add olive-oil based dressings or cook things in olive oil. Add a spoonful of PB to your fruit smoothie, add some flax seeds to your pancakes... you get the picture. Sneaking in more calories throughout the day doesn't have to be hard, it just takes some planning and/or creativity. :flowerforyou:

Dobsaya

I actually increased my breakfast calories to get the extra in. Someone (Taso) posted a recipe for oatmeal cottage cheese pancakes. Yeah I know sounds gross, but low in carbs and loaded with protein. I eat these with my regular cup of coffee and a turkey sausage patty and have a pretty healthy 600 calorie breakfast. Then I eat my nuts and homemade muffins, etc. I know it can be daunting, but I sometimes cut back on exercise because I just don't want to eat more. But the eating more is working so I will continue. I don't reach the 2500 mark even though that would give me the 500 calorie deficit I need but I do aim for no less than 2000. I don't always make that either if it will throw off my sodium and carb level, but I try.

ladyhawk00

You know your words are always appreciated. You are very insightful and because of your journalism skills you are able to reach people in a positive and thoughtful way. Others have tried and failed but your words speak volumes. Thank you for your post.

Thank you, Des! I appreciate that so much.

JMJohnson1005

Great post!!

katschi

I so enjoy your posts!

This concept is so difficult for me to apply and to TRUST that it will heal me after all these decades of "dieting".
Not that any of that worked.
So why is it so hard to grasp and believe?

I am definitely going to work on this.

ladyhawk00

For the first time I am feeling frustrated about this. Maybe I just need to eat more at each of my meals? (My meals roughly gage 400 cal)?

The last thing I want to do is go into "starvation mode".

Adding more at each meal is a GREAT idea, especially on days you know you'll be working out (or you're definitely planning to). It's not as overwhelming to add a few hundred calories here or there, rather than have 500-1000 left at the end of the day! It's easy to add extra calories to things like salads - add in nuts, seeds, avocado, dried fruit, etc. Use whole-fat or low-fat instead of fat-free dairy. Add olive-oil based dressings or cook things in olive oil. Add a spoonful of PB to your fruit smoothie, add some flax seeds to your pancakes... you get the picture. Sneaking in more calories throughout the day doesn't have to be hard, it just takes some planning and/or creativity. :flowerforyou:

Agree with everything Trent said.

Also, I'd add a couple of things. First, because you have a lot to lose, the "range" of defict your body can handle will be bigger than someone with 20 lbs to lose. So you're at LESS of a risk of underfeeding. It doesn't mean you can or should just cut cals to the bare minimum, but it does mean that, for a while at least, you have much more flexibility. You may be able to do ok on a 1500 cal deficit for another few lbs (notice I said MAY - not what I would really recommend, as I'm no expert).

Basically one of the main points I think is important to grasp is that MFP guidelines work. Yes, everyone will need to do a little tweaking at some point, but its really a pretty simple set up. Because MFP has a built in deficit, really all you need to do is try to meet cal goals. If you are set to lose 2 lbs per week, you should try to come pretty close to cal goals, because you already have a large deficit. An occasional day being far under is not the end of the world, but if it's common, that adds up. And while you have a lot to lose and could probably still do "ok", and would probably just lose faster, the faster you lose the more risks there are.

Everyone always asks "People on Biggest Loser lose 20 lbs a week, why can't I?" Well, you might be able to. But unless someone's offering you a huge load of cash to do it, I don't think it's worth it (wouldn't be worth it to me even if they were.) Rapid weight loss carries huge risks and drawbacks. Gallbladder issues, hair issues, hormone issues and weight regain are just some of them. Also, the faster the loss, the more likely you are to have lots of leftover skin (individual differences here, but rate of weight loss is a big part of it.) Simply put, while we'd all love to wake up tomorrow in the body we want, it's not going to happen and trying to rush it (or inadvertantly rushing it by not eating enough) leads to other problems.

So, as Trent pointed out, one of the best strategies is to increase cals per meal/snack. Keep them nutrient dense cals, with protein, good fats, and good carbs. It can be tough sometimes, but with planning it's not too hard.

Another option is to decrease your burns. I typically burn 400-500 a day. I could do a lot more - but I'd have a hard time increasing my cals enough to compensate. So I stick with a lower burn for now. As I lose more weight, and thus burn less with each workout, I can increase time/intensity to keep my burns steady, without having to eat like a horse. You said you have a trainer, so you might discuss it with him and see what he recommends and what you're comfortable with.

Bottom line, you just need to find the combination of food and exercise that is best for you, making sure you're providing enough good fuel. Good luck to you!

ladyhawk00

I actually increased my breakfast calories to get the extra in. Someone (Taso) posted a recipe for oatmeal cottage cheese pancakes. Yeah I know sounds gross, but low in carbs and loaded with protein. I eat these with my regular cup of coffee and a turkey sausage patty and have a pretty healthy 600 calorie breakfast. Then I eat my nuts and homemade muffins, etc. I know it can be daunting, but I sometimes cut back on exercise because I just don't want to eat more. But the eating more is working so I will continue. I don't reach the 2500 mark even though that would give me the 500 calorie deficit I need but I do aim for no less than 2000. I don't always make that either if it will throw off my sodium and carb level, but I try.

As I mentioned in PP, I think too many people forget the option of cutting back on burns. They are either too bent on the "I have to kill myself at the gym" idea, or they are addicted to working out - which, while it sounds great, isn't actually what is healthy. That's not to say exercise isn't healthy, but as with anything, you CAN overdo it. And if you simply can't refuel enough, it basically means you ARE overdoing it.

flausa

Another option is to decrease your burns. I typically burn 400-500 a day. I could do a lot more - but I'd have a hard time increasing my cals enough to compensate. So I stick with a lower burn for now. As I lose more weight, and thus burn less with each workout, I can increase time/intensity to keep my burns steady, without having to eat like a horse.

Thanks for saying this as well. One of the things I've struggled with is the notion that people are spending hours in the gym and burning 1000+ calories a day. I just have no desire to do that, because I know that wouldn't be sustainable for me at all. But I can burn 400-500 calories 4 times a week and eating back most of those calories. I do have a load of weight to lose right now, but I want to make sure I make a lifestyle change, not just a weight loss change.

ladyhawk00

Another option is to decrease your burns. I typically burn 400-500 a day. I could do a lot more - but I'd have a hard time increasing my cals enough to compensate. So I stick with a lower burn for now. As I lose more weight, and thus burn less with each workout, I can increase time/intensity to keep my burns steady, without having to eat like a horse.

Thanks for saying this as well. One of the things I've struggled with is the notion that people are spending hours in the gym and burning 1000+ calories a day. I just have no desire to do that, because I know that wouldn't be sustainable for me at all. But I can burn 400-500 calories 4 times a week and eating back most of those calories. I do have a load of weight to lose right now, but I want to make sure I make a lifestyle change, not just a weight loss change.

Definitely the right attitude! Keep up the good work! :flowerforyou:

vox23

Everyone always asks "People on Biggest Loser lose 20 lbs a week, why can't I?" Well, you might be able to. But unless someone's offering you a huge load of cash to do it, I don't think it's worth it (wouldn't be worth it to me even if they were.) Rapid weight loss carries huge risks and drawbacks. Gallbladder issues, hair issues, hormone issues and weight regain are just some of them. Also, the faster the loss, the more likely you are to have lots of leftover skin (individual differences here, but rate of weight loss is a big part of it.) Simply put, while we'd all love to wake up tomorrow in the body we want, it's not going to happen and trying to rush it (or inadvertantly rushing it by not eating enough) leads to other problems.

So, as Trent pointed out, one of the best strategies is to increase cals per meal/snack. Keep them nutrient dense cals, with protein, good fats, and good carbs. It can be tough sometimes, but with planning it's not too hard.

Thanks ladyhawk00. I wouldn't say losing that much weight that fast is healthy either. I've lost an average of 1 1/4 lbs weekly over the last year and I'm fine to keep it that way until I reach my goal (though I have been averaging more like 2.5 lbs the last month and a half)

I wondered how much exercising was too much. I used to work out twice/week, then moved it up to 4 days/week, now I'm at 5 days a week with a double workout twice/week. I was considering continuing into the weekend, but I think that I need a couple days for my body to rest now and I may reconsider working out at home on my bootcamp days.

Thanks again for the well educated advice.

Dobsaya

I only work out for 58 minutes a day at home. 30 minutes elliptical or zumba and 28 minute of 30 day shred. Not hours in the gym. And, I only burn about 400 calories during this hours. The rest comes from just living my life, and I am not going to sit on a couch all day so that I don't burn the 2800 calories that I would without exercising. The hour of exercise actually helps my overall heath so is definitely not extreme.

ladyhawk00

I only work out for 58 minutes a day at home. 30 minutes elliptical or zumba and 28 minute of 30 day shred. Not hours in the gym. And, I only burn about 400 calories during this hours. The rest comes from just living my life, and I am not going to sit on a couch all day so that I don't burn the 2800 calories that I would without exercising. The hour of exercise actually helps my overall heath so is definitely not extreme.

No, yours is definitely not extreme, didn't mean to make it sound like that's what I meant. I was agreeing where you said sometimes you just back off on it a little when you need to, and pointing out that a lot of people don't consider that an option when they're having trouble meeting cal goals. You're certainly on the right track, IMO.

Dobsaya

Thanks. Sorry to go on the offensive. I agree with your point. I actually delete friends who constantly underneat. I do my regulations workout but love to do pilates and yoga and don't so that I won't burn any additional calories. You opened a real cannot worms. Good post.

ladyhawk00

Bump to keep in my Topics

runningneo122

Bump

ladyhawk00

I just want to reiterate that depending on hunger cues, especially when you are just beginning to change your habits, is not a reliable way to judge how much you need to eat. Banks gave a great explanation of why in this thread:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/61706-guide-to-calorie-deficits?page=10

tokenana

oh wow thanks ha its scary to eat so much food and when they say the weight will come off and it just comes back or stays the same is so irratting i know its a long prosccess but ahh i really wish it wasent that was a terrific post

ladyhawk00

oh wow thanks ha its scary to eat so much food and when they say the weight will come off and it just comes back or stays the same is so irratting i know its a long prosccess but ahh i really wish it wasent that was a terrific post

Thanks! Very long process - but in the end you'll be healthier and happier

ladyhawk00

Self Bump

robin52077

Self Bump

And well deserved.

ladyhawk00

Self Bump

And well deserved.

Haha thanks Robin :bigsmile: