Paleo Diet
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I wouldn’t slam you, I can understand where you are coming from. And yes if you are not eating meats, grains and legumes are probably invaluable.
Okay...before you slam me...I'm fine with Paleo/Primal. I also agree with you...but here is something you may not have thought of...
If you were a vegetarian (like I am)...grains (along with legumes and pulces) provide the bulk of the amino acids needed for a properly functioning body. If however you're on Paleo/Primal grains are not needed as you are able to consume protein from flesh. You get plenty of fiber, vitamins, minerals...ect from the veggies.
Keep in mind a vegetarian or vegan may have to supplement to get a complete protein profile. If I remember right, it's branch chain amino acids that need supplemented.
Correct. The only 'true' supplement that a vegan (not veg) needs to take is B-12 as it's not found in a vegan diet (except in quinoa). I've been a vegetarian my entire life and was a vegan for 4 years and don't seem to have any type of intolerance to grains, beans, or sugars. I do love reading Robb Wolfs book though, makes me laugh...so much great humor. I don't judge lifestyles as mine is picked on enough, lol.0 -
And the studies do suggest that whole grain fiber has health benefits that veggies and fruits don't. The opposite is also true, veggie and fruits contain health benefits that grains don't. Which is why it's good to eat both.
I missed that please provide quote where they suggest grains have benefits over veggies.
Besides the part that said people in the study who ate more whole grains lived longer? What would be the point? I've already added the quotes and the links. If you choose not to read or believe them that's okay. As I've repeatedly said, my intent is not to try and stear anyone away from a Paleo diet. It is merely to point out that there is plenty of medical scientific evidence that whole grains are not only not bad for you, but they are good for you.0 -
And the studies do suggest that whole grain fiber has health benefits that veggies and fruits don't. The opposite is also true, veggie and fruits contain health benefits that grains don't. Which is why it's good to eat both.
I missed that please provide quote where they suggest grains have benefits over veggies.
Besides the part that said people in the study who ate more whole grains lived longer? What would be the point? I've already added the quotes and the links. If you choose not to read or believe them that's okay. As I've repeatedly said, my intent is not to try and stear anyone away from a Paleo diet. It is merely to point out that there is plenty of medical scientific evidence that whole grains are not only not bad for you, but they are good for you.
So the answer is they do not say anywhere that whole grains have any benefits over vegetables. That’s what I thought, if you’re going to make a statement you should be prepared to back it up, or qualify it as your opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion, just like they have the right to be wrong.0 -
Good or bad for you, you don't require grains to live and thrive.
End of story, let's all get along shall we?0 -
Good or bad for you, you don't require grains to live and thrive.
End of story, let's all get along shall we?
Agreed (both points). You don't need grains to live and thrive just like you don't need meat.0 -
And the studies do suggest that whole grain fiber has health benefits that veggies and fruits don't. The opposite is also true, veggie and fruits contain health benefits that grains don't. Which is why it's good to eat both.
I missed that please provide quote where they suggest grains have benefits over veggies.
Besides the part that said people in the study who ate more whole grains lived longer? What would be the point? I've already added the quotes and the links. If you choose not to read or believe them that's okay. As I've repeatedly said, my intent is not to try and stear anyone away from a Paleo diet. It is merely to point out that there is plenty of medical scientific evidence that whole grains are not only not bad for you, but they are good for you.
So the answer is they do not say anywhere that whole grains have any benefits over vegetables. That’s what I thought, if you’re going to make a statement you should be prepared to back it up, or qualify it as your opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion, just like they have the right to be wrong.
Sorry, difference of opinion I guess. I consider living longer to be better.0 -
And the studies do suggest that whole grain fiber has health benefits that veggies and fruits don't. The opposite is also true, veggie and fruits contain health benefits that grains don't. Which is why it's good to eat both.
I missed that please provide quote where they suggest grains have benefits over veggies.
Besides the part that said people in the study who ate more whole grains lived longer? What would be the point? I've already added the quotes and the links. If you choose not to read or believe them that's okay. As I've repeatedly said, my intent is not to try and stear anyone away from a Paleo diet. It is merely to point out that there is plenty of medical scientific evidence that whole grains are not only not bad for you, but they are good for you.
So the answer is they do not say anywhere that whole grains have any benefits over vegetables. That’s what I thought, if you’re going to make a statement you should be prepared to back it up, or qualify it as your opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion, just like they have the right to be wrong.
Sorry, difference of opinion I guess. I consider living longer to be better.
But the point is they never said you would live longer eating grains over veggies. Again you need to consider the base line, which for some reason you just will not do, I know it doesn't help your case and maybe that is why you try to brush it off. But the base line is the normal diet not a diet high in veggies. Their studies do not say you will live longer eating plenty of whole grains over eating plenty of veggies. Period end of story, you’re trying to extrapolate information that is just not in evidence.0 -
Another fad? Dieting should all be about moderation.
I agree. And why wouldn't sugar and beans be included? Those things can be gathered.
Really, so go gather some sugar, and get back to me when you have a 5 pound bag of the white stuff.
Have you never seen a sugar cane? Processed, refined sugar is gross, for sure, and I avoid it in my pescetarian diet because it is ground with animal bones and yadda yadda. But if you've ever had sugar right from the cane, you can't tell me that's not natural and it surely is delicious.0 -
Good or bad for you, you don't require grains to live and thrive.
End of story, let's all get along shall we?
Agreed (both points). You don't need grains to live and thrive just like you don't need meat.
Amen.0 -
I recently talked to someone who was on a Paleo Diet - Paleolithic (Yep like the cave man) It sounds sort of interesting... You eat anything that you could hunt or gather. No dairy, sugar, beans, etc... Not really sure on the specifics.
The main interest to me was the amount of bacon that she eats and still looses weight. I mean, a lot of bacon. She has lost 18lbs.
Just wondering what peoples thoughts are.
Feel free to add me as a friend!!! - I need all of the motivation that I can get.
Kait
Hey Kait!
I've been primal for over 2 months now and I have nothing but good things to say about it. I was on the food pyramid eating a low-fat, whole grain based diet and I got to points where I was blacking out and shaking all the time. I couldn't eat enough and was starving all the time even though it was all healthy food. Since I have been Primal, I have lost fat, increased my muscle mass, increased energy, decreased my fibromyalgia symptoms, got rid of heart burn, have improved my overall quality of life, and best of all I'm NOT STARVING. I think you probably have gotten all the info from previous posters on what the basic lifestyle entails, so I won't repeat it. But the real question you have to answer for yourself is "WHY???"
Why do people who cut out grains/sugar/starch vegetables/legumes able to lose weight?
Why do they have more energy?
Why are they able to get off their insulin and other diabetic medications?
Why do they keep their muscle mass while losing fat even though they don't have to exercise?
Why do they get rid of their GERD?
Why is your friend able to lose weight eating a crap load of bacon???
Personally if I found a "diet" with all these great things associated with it, I think it would be worth looking into. So, that 's what I did. I'll never go back to my previous way! If you need informational materials let me know. I have done a ton of research.
I agree with all of this. It took me 6 months to drop 10lbs (I was in the upper range of a healthy weight range). I was told the only option was to lose it slowly and that at a healthy weight burning calories through exercise was the only way to do it because I couldn't drop my calories any lower. When I hit my goal I started looking into low carb because of the diabetes running rampant on both sides of my family. That's when I came across Primal Blueprint and Mark's Daily Apple. Since I found these I have been researching carbohydrates and chronic elevated insulin levels and metabolic syndrome (which doesn't apply only to diabetics). Eating flours and sugars will cause metabolic syndrome - just not everyone will get diabetes from it. But I digress - this is info you can find out through Gary Taubes' books Why We Get Fat and Good Calories, Bad Calories. The latter book has been very, very enlightening.
Well back to the subject - when I went Primal - just to experiment - I wasn't expecting the results I got. I dropped 4.6lbs of pure body fat; bloating is gone; IBS is going away; tummy fat is going away. My energy levels are amazing. And this was in the first three weeks. I don't exercise nearly as much. Just enough to stay fit (I use Primal Blueprint Fitness).
Personally - I think it's worth just trying it out. But if you are used to eating a lot of carbs there will be a "withdrawl" period anywhere from a week to a month as your body figures out what it needs to do - and it will switch over to fat-burning. Fat is the body's main fuel source - not carbs. Carbs just take precedence over fat because the body has to take care of the blood sugar levels.0 -
Another fad? Dieting should all be about moderation.
I agree. And why wouldn't sugar and beans be included? Those things can be gathered.
Really, so go gather some sugar, and get back to me when you have a 5 pound bag of the white stuff.
Have you never seen a sugar cane? Processed, refined sugar is gross, for sure, and I avoid it in my pescetarian diet because it is ground with animal bones and yadda yadda. But if you've ever had sugar right from the cane, you can't tell me that's not natural and it surely is delicious.
And the workers in the sugar cane fields chew on sugar cane stalks. And the stalks do not cause the insulin response that table sugar does. Because it is natural and unrefined. 0 -
And the studies do suggest that whole grain fiber has health benefits that veggies and fruits don't. The opposite is also true, veggie and fruits contain health benefits that grains don't. Which is why it's good to eat both.
I missed that please provide quote where they suggest grains have benefits over veggies.
Besides the part that said people in the study who ate more whole grains lived longer? What would be the point? I've already added the quotes and the links. If you choose not to read or believe them that's okay. As I've repeatedly said, my intent is not to try and stear anyone away from a Paleo diet. It is merely to point out that there is plenty of medical scientific evidence that whole grains are not only not bad for you, but they are good for you.
So the answer is they do not say anywhere that whole grains have any benefits over vegetables. That’s what I thought, if you’re going to make a statement you should be prepared to back it up, or qualify it as your opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion, just like they have the right to be wrong.
Sorry, difference of opinion I guess. I consider living longer to be better.
But the point is they never said you would live longer eating grains over veggies. Again you need to consider the base line, which for some reason you just will not do, I know it doesn't help your case and maybe that is why you try to brush it off. But the base line is the normal diet not a diet high in veggies. Their studies do not say you will live longer eating plenty of whole grains over eating plenty of veggies. Period end of story, you’re trying to extrapolate information that is just not in evidence.
*sigh* whatever I'm sure the study is available online (maybe for a price) if you want to read it.0 -
I don't exercise nearly as much. Just enough to stay fit (I use Primal Blueprint Fitness).
This is where I have found Paleo eating the most impressive. Before, I was beating the heck out of my body doing P90X & Insanity. My elbows & shoulders were in constant pain from all of those isolation/concentration movements. Don't get me wrong, they are great programs but they weren't sustainable for me.
By eating Paleo (taking in <50g's carbs per day) my body doesn't require the heavy cardio based hour long sessions. I lift heavy 3x's per week (StrongLifts5x5...compound movements only) and walk for distance a few days a week.
The eating, which is pretty much self regulating (unlike a heavy grain/carb diet, at least for me) doesn't require me to monitor calories as much because the higher fat content satiates and says "when", when it's time to stop eating. This wasn't the case for me on grains and 6 meals a day. I was constantly hungry.
Now I eat 2x's a day with a 14-16 hour intermittent fast in between. The diet actually does more of the work than the workouts for me now.0 -
Another fad? Dieting should all be about moderation.
I agree. And why wouldn't sugar and beans be included? Those things can be gathered.
Really, so go gather some sugar, and get back to me when you have a 5 pound bag of the white stuff.
Have you never seen a sugar cane? Processed, refined sugar is gross, for sure, and I avoid it in my pescetarian diet because it is ground with animal bones and yadda yadda. But if you've ever had sugar right from the cane, you can't tell me that's not natural and it surely is delicious.
Well by that logic I could gather corn flakes, have you ever seen a corn stalk?0 -
Another fad? Dieting should all be about moderation.
I agree. And why wouldn't sugar and beans be included? Those things can be gathered.
Really, so go gather some sugar, and get back to me when you have a 5 pound bag of the white stuff.
Have you never seen a sugar cane? Processed, refined sugar is gross, for sure, and I avoid it in my pescetarian diet because it is ground with animal bones and yadda yadda. But if you've ever had sugar right from the cane, you can't tell me that's not natural and it surely is delicious.
And the workers in the sugar cane fields chew on sugar cane stalks. And the stalks do not cause the insulin response that table sugar does. Because it is natural and unrefined.
I beg to differ with you on this point. Sugar cane does indeed cause a massive spike for diabetes. Not recommended! Warning....this is not an option for people with metabolic issues!0 -
All of your links compare whole grains to refined grains, NONE compare grain based diets with diets based on no grains. So pretty much your post is a strawman that has no bearing with the subject at hand. I AGREE whole grains are better than refined grains. You win. LOL
My post wasn't intended to compare whole grains vs. no grains not was I trying to "win" anything. I believe that you can follow the Paleo diet and be healthy and I've never said otherwise. I just object to the spreading of false information, such as whole grains are bad for you (you not meaning any one person in particular, just "you" as a general term). They are not and the posts support my argument. I kind of like the strawman reference though (straw, grain, funny).
Actually the links support that whole grains are "better" for you, not good for you.
No, they support that they are good for you.
From the Harvard link:
"By keeping the stool soft and bulky, the fiber in whole grains helps prevent constipation, a common, costly, and aggravating problem. It also helps prevent diverticular disease (the development of tiny pouches inside the colon that are easily irritated and inflamed) by decreasing pressure in the intestines."
"An intriguing report from the Iowa Women's Health Study linked whole-grain consumption with fewer deaths from noncardiac, noncancer causes. Compared with women who rarely or never ate whole-grain foods, those who had at least two or more servings a day were 30 percent less likely to have died from an inflammation-related condition over a 17-year period "
"In a study of more than 160,000 women whose health and dietary habits were followed for up to 18 years, those who averaged 2 to 3 servings of whole grains a day were 30 percent less likely to have developed type 2 diabetes than those who rarely ate whole grains"
From mayo clinic:
"Hailed as the "staff of life" for their historical importance to human survival, grains are an essential part of a healthy diet."
From webmd:
"We all know we're supposed to eat more whole grains. We know they're "good" for us (full of fiber, phytochemicals, and vitamins and minerals)."
"Frankly, we are only just realizing the nutritional fallout from almost eliminating whole grains from our diet over the past hundred years."
"After analyzing data from more than 15,000 people aged 45-65, researchers from the University of Minnesota School of Public Health found that as whole-grain intake went up, total mortality (the rate of death from all causes) went down"
"One study found that women who ate three or more servings of whole-grain foods a day had significantly lower body mass indexes (BMIs) than those eating less than one serving a day. (This was found in men, too, but the link was more significant in women.)"
***there is a lot more on there but I guess if you really wanted to know you could just read the articles.
Like I said, better for you. I understand what you are saying, and what the studies are saying, but it doesn’t seem that you understand the base line here. When they say whole grains are good for you, good for you compared to what? The base line is a standard American diet, which is loaded with processed grains, sugars and other junk.
I really like this line, “decreased mortality from all causes” well it seems that eating whole grains will protect you from getting shot in a drive by. LOL This is the same, and may I add, lame, line of reasoning used by vegetarians. As a group veggies are healthier than the average American, the average American eats meat, therefore eating meat is unhealthy, or eating only veggies is more healthy than eating meat. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. There is a lot that goes along with it, like it takes a huge commitment to be a vegetarian, people that are able to make that commitment are also more likely to lead a “healthier” life all around, more exercise, don’t smoke, don’t do a lot of things that contribute to health related mortality. Same thing with whole grains, I would hazard a guess that most people that eat whole grains are more health conscious, therefore they are more healthy. But again what is your base line, more healthy than who? It is my contention that grains are more harmful to most people than they are beneficial, and that even if they are not harmful, they don’t even come close to being the best option, for anything you can name, other than maybe taste, for people that are addicted to grains. Fiber is better obtained through veggies, protein through meat, vitamins and minerals through meat, veggies and fruits, carbs through veggies and fruits, all are much, much better options than grains.
And regarding fiber: There has never been one study or any investigations done that more fiber is better for you. It was just "thrown out there" along with all the other crap that we were told is good for us and it was taken in as part of the conventional wisdom the we listen to today.0 -
Another fad? Dieting should all be about moderation.
I agree. And why wouldn't sugar and beans be included? Those things can be gathered.
Really, so go gather some sugar, and get back to me when you have a 5 pound bag of the white stuff.
Have you never seen a sugar cane? Processed, refined sugar is gross, for sure, and I avoid it in my pescetarian diet because it is ground with animal bones and yadda yadda. But if you've ever had sugar right from the cane, you can't tell me that's not natural and it surely is delicious.
And the workers in the sugar cane fields chew on sugar cane stalks. And the stalks do not cause the insulin response that table sugar does. Because it is natural and unrefined.
I beg to differ with you on this point. Sugar cane does indeed cause a massive spike for diabetes. Not recommended! Warning....this is not an option for people with metabolic issues!
Didn't say they don't cause an insulin response. Said it doesn't compare to table sugar. And if you aren't diabetic then you can chew of sugar cane stalk and not become diabetic. It's the refining of the sugar that turns it into something that can potentially cause diabetes.
....All [sugar] cane workers get a weekly ration of 1 1/2lbs. And it is estimated that they can augment this by chewing sugar cane to the extent of 1/2-1lb daily. These sugarcane cutters, in whom, as Campbell noted, "diabetes is virtually absent," turned out to be pivotal, in that later generations of diabetologists would cite them as compelling evidence that diabetes was not caused by eating sugar (many years were spend trying to prove this). Campbell, however, believed it was the refining of the sugar, which allowed for its quick consumption and metabolism, that did the damage; chewing sugarcane resulted in a slow intake of sugar that he believed would be relatively benign. Moreover, cane cutters would cut and move by hand as much as seven tons of sugarcane each day, which required an extraordinary effort that suggested to Campbell...that a physically active lifestyle might ward off the danger of excessive sugar consumption perhaps by burning the sugar as fuel to maintain the necessary "huge output of energy" before it could do its damage. - Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.
Okay, there's a little more detail.0 -
All of your links compare whole grains to refined grains, NONE compare grain based diets with diets based on no grains. So pretty much your post is a strawman that has no bearing with the subject at hand. I AGREE whole grains are better than refined grains. You win. LOL
My post wasn't intended to compare whole grains vs. no grains not was I trying to "win" anything. I believe that you can follow the Paleo diet and be healthy and I've never said otherwise. I just object to the spreading of false information, such as whole grains are bad for you (you not meaning any one person in particular, just "you" as a general term). They are not and the posts support my argument. I kind of like the strawman reference though (straw, grain, funny).
Actually the links support that whole grains are "better" for you, not good for you.
No, they support that they are good for you.
From the Harvard link:
"By keeping the stool soft and bulky, the fiber in whole grains helps prevent constipation, a common, costly, and aggravating problem. It also helps prevent diverticular disease (the development of tiny pouches inside the colon that are easily irritated and inflamed) by decreasing pressure in the intestines."
"An intriguing report from the Iowa Women's Health Study linked whole-grain consumption with fewer deaths from noncardiac, noncancer causes. Compared with women who rarely or never ate whole-grain foods, those who had at least two or more servings a day were 30 percent less likely to have died from an inflammation-related condition over a 17-year period "
"In a study of more than 160,000 women whose health and dietary habits were followed for up to 18 years, those who averaged 2 to 3 servings of whole grains a day were 30 percent less likely to have developed type 2 diabetes than those who rarely ate whole grains"
From mayo clinic:
"Hailed as the "staff of life" for their historical importance to human survival, grains are an essential part of a healthy diet."
From webmd:
"We all know we're supposed to eat more whole grains. We know they're "good" for us (full of fiber, phytochemicals, and vitamins and minerals)."
"Frankly, we are only just realizing the nutritional fallout from almost eliminating whole grains from our diet over the past hundred years."
"After analyzing data from more than 15,000 people aged 45-65, researchers from the University of Minnesota School of Public Health found that as whole-grain intake went up, total mortality (the rate of death from all causes) went down"
"One study found that women who ate three or more servings of whole-grain foods a day had significantly lower body mass indexes (BMIs) than those eating less than one serving a day. (This was found in men, too, but the link was more significant in women.)"
***there is a lot more on there but I guess if you really wanted to know you could just read the articles.
Like I said, better for you. I understand what you are saying, and what the studies are saying, but it doesn’t seem that you understand the base line here. When they say whole grains are good for you, good for you compared to what? The base line is a standard American diet, which is loaded with processed grains, sugars and other junk.
I really like this line, “decreased mortality from all causes” well it seems that eating whole grains will protect you from getting shot in a drive by. LOL This is the same, and may I add, lame, line of reasoning used by vegetarians. As a group veggies are healthier than the average American, the average American eats meat, therefore eating meat is unhealthy, or eating only veggies is more healthy than eating meat. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. There is a lot that goes along with it, like it takes a huge commitment to be a vegetarian, people that are able to make that commitment are also more likely to lead a “healthier” life all around, more exercise, don’t smoke, don’t do a lot of things that contribute to health related mortality. Same thing with whole grains, I would hazard a guess that most people that eat whole grains are more health conscious, therefore they are more healthy. But again what is your base line, more healthy than who? It is my contention that grains are more harmful to most people than they are beneficial, and that even if they are not harmful, they don’t even come close to being the best option, for anything you can name, other than maybe taste, for people that are addicted to grains. Fiber is better obtained through veggies, protein through meat, vitamins and minerals through meat, veggies and fruits, carbs through veggies and fruits, all are much, much better options than grains.
And regarding fiber: There has never been one study or any investigations done that more fiber is better for you. It was just "thrown out there" along with all the other crap that we were told is good for us and it was taken in as part of the conventional wisdom the we listen to today.
It depends on what you mean by "more". There are plenty of studies that show that fiber is good for you, so in the sense that "more than none" is good for, there certainly are. If you mean "more than X amount" it would depend entirely on the value of X.0 -
bump....0
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It depends on what you mean by "more". There are plenty of studies that show that fiber is good for you, so in the sense that "more than none" is good for, there certainly are. If you mean "more than X amount" it would depend entirely on the value of X.
So you do understand base line.0
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