Spare the rod and spoil the child?

chocolateandvodka

Is is ok to hit your spouse if they disobey you? No. So it isn't ok to hit a child who is smaller and more defenceless. I am quite horrified by most of the responses on this thread.

Wow.........This is not comparing apples to apples at all! Poor analagy!

and to think my ex husband literally told me (several times and with a completely serious expression) that he felt like if i disobeyed him he had every right to discipline me.

thus the "ex".

There you go! Obviously some people really do come away with that message.

to be fair - he came from quite an abusive home that still has some questionable creeds. It's still a poor analogy.

stormieweather

I was "spanked" (aka beaten) up through my teens. I swore I would NOT inflict that on my own children. And I never have.

I have three biological children and have raised several others (step and foster). I have never spanked or hit any of them. They are proof positive that you can raise well-behaved children without hitting them. The oldest is 28 and the youngest is 6. They're wonderful kids who stayed out of trouble and did no more than the usual limit testing that all kids do. None of them were ever arrested, observed drunk, did drugs, or got pregnant/got anyone else pregnant. Nor did they ever get into physical fights, abuse anyone or end up being abused by anyone. And I am very proud of them.

rhodesar

I'm a mother of two and have never spanked my kids. They are lovely, well mannered and respectful. I think kids learn by example and should never be demeaned or humiliated in this (or any) way.

Can you please explain to me how spanking of more demeaning or humiliating than any other kind of punishment where you are taking away their free will and forcing them to perform whatever activity you have lined up for them?

It's just what I believe, hey this parenting business is just guess work most of the time. I think that most children misbehave for a reason and usually for attention. Give kids some of your time and you'll be amazed at how well they behave (and how happy they are).

Ravyn1982

I was spanked as a child, usually with a belt or a hand. A few times, when I was really bad, with a piece of wood. I would've never classified any of it as abuse. Sometimes it hurt like hell but it was always deserved. I spank my childern, only with my hand though, and have found out that while it works wonders with my daughter, my son doesn't respond well to it. So its a trial and error thing to figure out what works for the child. Some all spanking does is make them worse, others respond just like you want them to. My son we have to come up with very creative ways to punish him. Extra chores seem to work well espeically the one's that he really hates to do(usually the same one's that I hate doing too lol).

I will say it is a very fine line between disicpline and abuse when it comes to spanking. If I'm too frustrated I will not spank as I don't want to cross that line and anger is the way to cross it. If I'm too angry they get put in a corner and left there until I can calm down enough to calmly give out punishment. Usually by then its going to be talking about what they did wrong instead of spanking cause it won't work at that point anyways.

That's my view on it. Whether people agree with me or not I don't care cause my family does and so does my husband and they are all that matters.

h3h8m3

It's just what I believe, hey this parenting business is just guess work most of the time. I think that most children misbehave for a reason and usually for attention. Give kids some of your time and you'll be amazed at how well they behave (and how happy they are).

You're certainly right that there is a lot of guess-work, and trial and error involved. But you must have a reason to believe that spanking is "demeaning and humiliating" but other punishments are not. It's that perspective that I'm curious about.

I believe kids are more often humiliated and demeaned by parents who treat them as if they are unable to reason and make independent decisions. And I believe setting boundaries (which may include spanking) make children feel safe and comfortable in an environment. Yes, I just said that spankings can be a part of a 'safe' environment. I remember being spanked (very rarely) when I misbehaved. It was never a spur of the moment thing, and I always knew it was coming, yet pushed my parents anyway.

It certainly never humiliated or demeaned me. It taught me that my behaviors had consequences, and, looking back, I recognize how hard it is to give that kind of discipline as a parent, and I respect my parents for it.

juleseybaby

I was spanked and I have spanked all of my children. My oldest loves to let me know how unfair it is that I lived and learned AFTER her spankings.

That being said - it has been a very long time. I have found that 'things they love' (consequences) are a very useful tool.

(e.g. You didn't keep your room clean? Oh - then I am unable to allow you to go skating. You were disrespectful to someone? Oh - then I am unable to respect your wish that I let you go with your friends to the mall. You stayed up past your bedtime? Too bad - you still have to get up at 6am. Sucks huh?)

:bigsmile:

TheRoadDog

These topics always break down. Very little objectivity. Always becomes subjective.

Oh well....Hey? Do you know what to say to a woman with two black eyes??

Nothing. She wouldn't listen the first two times. Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk

ZebraHead

^^ FUNNY!

punkrockmama

I think spanking is lazy parenting. I have 3 kids and they don't get spanked. The middle one is extremely "exuberant" and the only times I've ever wanted to spank him has been because I've been frustrated or exhausted or distracted and didn't want to do what was needed; which would be to assess the situation and figure out an appropriate way to communicate with him.
Hitting is wrong. The end.
We teach compassion and grace by using compassion and grace.
And honestly, when we are on our toes regarding parenting, there is seldom a need for us to "punish" them at all.

punkrockmama

I totally agree with these ideas! If my kids are causing problems it's usually because they are tired/hungry, bored/energetic, or having an emotional day. And hitting wouldn't fix any of those problems.
We also punish our oldest (younger two don't quite get the concept) with "fines" and chores instead of grounding. It really hits home.

What I originally said was most bad behaviour is as a result of pent up energy. I get my children to run around the garden when they are being vile, and they are much happier for it. Twist all you like, you are just totally 100% twisting my words.

Seriously, some of you have some seriously warped logic going on here.

You are exactly right! Amazing what people think!! I've made them run, jumping jacks, push ups, any thing I can think of to burn off some excess energy. You can tell when your kids start acting up it's usually because they sat in a class room all day or in front of a tv, they need to get out & run around & sometimes they don't want to. Always, after, they feel better, act better & are in a much better mood. That is so hilarious that anyone would think making your kids do some physical activity as a form of punishment or time out would be considered abuse!!! My daughter got into some big trouble when she was a teenager (I don't even remember what is was now) so we put her to work!! We made her move the entire wood pile piece by piece from one side of the yard to the other. One time her & my teenage step daughter got into some BIG trouble & they were grounded for a month. I surely wasn't going to let them sit around & do nothing for that month, everyday I gave them a LONG list of chores, washing walls, cleaning closets, anything I could think of to keep them busy. I guess this would also be some sort of abuse?!

ItsCasey

I think spanking is lazy parenting. I have 3 kids and they don't get spanked. The middle one is extremely "exuberant" and the only times I've ever wanted to spank him has been because I've been frustrated or exhausted or distracted and didn't want to do what was needed; which would be to assess the situation and figure out an appropriate way to communicate with him.
Hitting is wrong. The end.
We teach compassion and grace by using compassion and grace.
And honestly, when we are on our toes regarding parenting, there is seldom a need for us to "punish" them at all.

Nobody WANTS to spank their children.

Again, people are confusing "hitting/abuse" with "spanking/discipline." They are two VERY different concepts. And it's not anywhere near as lazy as "Go sit on your time-out chair."

I also think it's funny how every non-spanking parent believes their children are perfect and that they only misbehave because they're tired or they have too much energy. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Kids misbehave because they think they can get away with it. Really, it's not any more complicated than that. I'm glad my parents taught me that being in a bad mood was no excuse for throwing a fit.

angryguy77

I think spanking is lazy parenting. I have 3 kids and they don't get spanked. The middle one is extremely "exuberant" and the only times I've ever wanted to spank him has been because I've been frustrated or exhausted or distracted and didn't want to do what was needed; which would be to assess the situation and figure out an appropriate way to communicate with him.
Hitting is wrong. The end.
We teach compassion and grace by using compassion and grace.
And honestly, when we are on our toes regarding parenting, there is seldom a need for us to "punish" them at all.

Nobody WANTS to spank their children.

Again, people are confusing "hitting/abuse" with "spanking/discipline." They are two VERY different concepts. And it's not anywhere near as lazy as "Go sit on your time-out chair."

I also think it's funny how every non-spanking parent believes their children are perfect and that they only misbehave because they're tired or they have too much energy. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Kids misbehave because they think they can get away with it. Really, it's not any more complicated than that. I'm glad my parents taught me that being in a bad mood was no excuse for throwing a fit.

exactly. Society didn't collapse when spanking was the norm. In fact, our nation was less violent many years ago and it prospered.

I find it funny that she uses the word "lazy". That would imply that spanking is an effective and easy way out for the parent. From what I've seen from the anti-spanking crowd, is that spanking doesn't work. If it doesn't work, then it is causing more hassle for the parent which is not something a lazy parent would want to do. They would want to take the path of least resistance. I find it easier to tell my kid to sit down or go to his room(which I do when spanking is not warranted) and not deal with the whining than it is to get up and exert the effort to spank.

tashjs21

I think spanking is lazy parenting. I have 3 kids and they don't get spanked. The middle one is extremely "exuberant" and the only times I've ever wanted to spank him has been because I've been frustrated or exhausted or distracted and didn't want to do what was needed; which would be to assess the situation and figure out an appropriate way to communicate with him.
Hitting is wrong. The end.
We teach compassion and grace by using compassion and grace.
And honestly, when we are on our toes regarding parenting, there is seldom a need for us to "punish" them at all.

Nobody WANTS to spank their children.

Again, people are confusing "hitting/abuse" with "spanking/discipline." They are two VERY different concepts. And it's not anywhere near as lazy as "Go sit on your time-out chair."

I also think it's funny how every non-spanking parent believes their children are perfect and that they only misbehave because they're tired or they have too much energy. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Kids misbehave because they think they can get away with it. Really, it's not any more complicated than that. I'm glad my parents taught me that being in a bad mood was no excuse for throwing a fit.

^^ THIS!!!

h3h8m3

exactly. Society didn't collapse when spanking was the norm. In fact, our nation was less violent many years ago and it prospered.

I find it funny that she uses the word "lazy". That would imply that spanking is an effective and easy way out for the parent. From what I've seen from the anti-spanking crowd, is that spanking doesn't work. If it doesn't work, then it is causing more hassle for the parent which is not something a lazy parent would want to do. They would want to take the path of least resistance. I find it easier to tell my kid to sit down or go to his room(which I do when spanking is not warranted) and not deal with the whining than it is to get up and exert the effort to spank.

Spanking is the least lazy discipline for me. It requires a ton of boundary setting ahead of time (I will absolutely never surprise my kids with a spanking), a lot of explaining ahead of time, then the actual spanking act (which is emotionally difficult, and about as unfun as anything gets), followed by more talking and consoling.

Making sweeping generalizations is intellectually lazy, and usually reveals the arrogance and ignorance of the speaker.

punkrockmama

I think there are many effective ways to teach children what is and is not acceptable in the home, community, and society as a whole. I do not think spanking is one of those. I think spanking is a reaction caused by the parent's inability to come up with a better non-violent way to deal with the problem.
My children are children. And as perfectly behaved as any of your own children. But I don't and won't hit them, and can't for the life of me figure out why that's offensive?
Although there are times in which I give my kids a time-out, I find it much more effective to get down on their level and talk about what they're doing, why it's unacceptable, and what they should do instead.
I treat them as I'd wish to be treated and as I'd wish for someone else to treat them.
I'm far from perfect, and have lost my cool and yelled unnecessarily at them...but I also sit down with them and apologize and tell them why it's wrong. And they respond to that, as well.
And, for the record, I'm not buyin the "we don't want to spank" theory, or, for crying out loud, the "spanking is hard work". Then don't spank. It's just that easy.
I don't feel bad about how I parent. I also don't feel the need to defend it. There's never any guilt in how I handle my children. They're growing into pretty incredible people. And that feels pretty good to me.

h3h8m3

And, for the record, I'm not buyin the "we don't want to spank" theory, or, for crying out loud, the "spanking is hard work". Then don't spank. It's just that easy.
I don't feel bad about how I parent. I also don't feel the need to defend it. There's never any guilt in how I handle my children. They're growing into pretty incredible people. And that feels pretty good to me.

Ah... I see. I am lying. Perfect argument, hard to debate that one. Well done!

ninerbuff

Child hits another child with an open hand on the back. The child cries.

Mother: "You don't do that! It's not right to hit someone!" Then proceeds to give a couple of whacks to her child.


Makes perfect sense.

angryguy77

Child hits another child with an open hand on the back. The child cries.

Mother: "You don't do that! It's not right to hit someone!" Then proceeds to give a couple of whacks to her child.


Makes perfect sense.

it I'll bet the kid thinks twice about hitting the other kid though.

What does make perfect sense is that you obviously haven't read the thread and how parents use spanking as a disciplinary tool.

twistofcain

I was spanked by both of my parents and I am not violent nor do I look for a fight. My dad has only given me 3 spankings in my life, and I think that it killed him more than it did me, just because he was beat for petty **** by his step father. The last spanking that I received from him was when I was 13 and about to fail 7th grade. I got a lick for every point below 70 in all of my classes, it resulted in 20 licks carried out over a 2 day period; I never failed another class and passed 7th grade.

I know people will say, "Oh he should have talked to you about this and that and why it is important to do your best." Answer to that is, he and my mom both would give me words of encouragement and tell me the consequences of my actions, but I didn't give a ****. Granted, I did give a **** after my licks.

I still had my issues during high school and I straightened out after the threat of being sent to boot camp for behavioral issues. I straightened up as I knew I wouldn't have survived. My dad later told me after I graduated high school, that he would never have sent me to it, as he knows the hell of boot camp with him being a former Marine; he just needed something to get through to me to get me going on the right track.



Consistency will always be the key. Do not spank\discipline your child for beating up on a younger sibling, if you are going to allow the younger sibling to attack and antagonize the older sibling because he is younger(My wonderful Brother and sister in law).

JellyJaks

I do spank my children occasionally. Honestly it depends on what they've done. My children are 7, 3 and 1 so usually a smack on the hand is enough to make them stop whatever the behavior is.

I don't however spank them anywhere besides their rear ends and I never do it more than twice. IMO more than twice means that you're out of control and teetering on the line between discipline and outright abuse. Twice is enough to get your point across and make the child realize they're doing something wrong.

boomboom011

Child hits another child with an open hand on the back. The child cries.

Mother: "You don't do that! It's not right to hit someone!" Then proceeds to give a couple of whacks to her child.


Makes perfect sense.

it I'll bet the kid thinks twice about hitting the other kid though.

What does make perfect sense is that you obviously haven't read the thread and how parents use spanking as a disciplinary tool.

yep and i would follow that little convo up with a smack to the back of the kids head!

i kid, i kid.

ninerbuff

it I'll bet the kid thinks twice about hitting the other kid though.

What does make perfect sense is that you obviously haven't read the thread and how parents use spanking as a disciplinary tool.

I was spanked as a kid. I used to hit my brother when I thought he was doing wrong, then intern got spanked for doing it. I didn't turn out "violent", but I used physical force to try to get my point across when I was younger.

I've read the opinions, and also go by the experiences I've encountered. Teachers don't have to spank to get kids to listen. And even the ones that don't get disciplinary action that doesn't involve physical punishment.

Again explain to me why using physical punishment on a child would make sense to that child if he was being punished for hitting someone else? That's like telling a kid not to smoke, but you do.

cabaray

I never spank my girls for hitting each other. If one of them hits her sister, she has to stand there and take one back. And before you all start your lecture on how that's teaching them to be violent, listen up. When they are out there in the real world, not this zero tolerance crap that is all around today, they need to know that if they start something they're probably going to get it back...and they also need to learn to not take any crap from anyone. If you're not willing to defend yourself, then who else will? My kids know if a kid at school is a bully and physically harms you in any way, take them out. Sure, they'll get suspended, but I guarantee you they won't be messed with again. I'll just take some vacation days and we'll go have fun while they're suspended.

Got a little off topic there...sorry!

Enforcer25

I have spanked our kids, haven't had to do it in a long time, I was spanked when I was little, I don't think it teaches the kid anything except he did something wrong and there is a consequence. Spanking is not the same as beating a kid, that is where the difference is.

h3h8m3

I've read the opinions, and also go by the experiences I've encountered. Teachers don't have to spank to get kids to listen. And even the ones that don't get disciplinary action that doesn't involve physical punishment.

Again explain to me why using physical punishment on a child would make sense to that child if he was being punished for hitting someone else? That's like telling a kid not to smoke, but you do.

A teacher's job is completely different from a parent's. Trying to compare the two is doomed to failure. A teacher is not there to instill discipline, they are there to teach other skills. A teacher can hand off a troublesome kid to the administration, and if the kid continue to misbehave, the kid gets kicked out. Parents have to figure out a solution no matter what. I don't think the comparison works.

I think you and I are looking at spanking differently. I see it as an option for helping develop appropriate behaviors in kids from about 20 months to about 5 years old. After that age they are able to be disciplined in much more subtle, nuanced ways.

Regarding your statement, it's really quite simple. A two year old doesn't think, "daddy hit me, so I can hit other people" he thinks, "I hit someone and it had a very bad result for me. I shouldn't do that anymore."

And please keep in mind, appropriately administered spanking is not done in anger, is never a surprise to the child, and is done very rarely. The people who continually argue against it (in this thread) are mischaracterizing it, and trying to make it something it's not.

If we want to start a thread about how horrible those parents are who smack their kids in anger, I'll be right there on the side decrying their behavior. Same as parents who scream at their kids. The parents must always be composed, consistent and loving as they administer any kind of discipline.

h3h8m3

I never spank my girls for hitting each other. If one of them hits her sister, she has to stand there and take one back. And before you all start your lecture on how that's teaching them to be violent, listen up. When they are out there in the real world, not this zero tolerance crap that is all around today, they need to know that if they start something they're probably going to get it back...and they also need to learn to not take any crap from anyone. If you're not willing to defend yourself, then who else will? My kids know if a kid at school is a bully and physically harms you in any way, take them out. Sure, they'll get suspended, but I guarantee you they won't be messed with again. I'll just take some vacation days and we'll go have fun while they're suspended.

Got a little off topic there...sorry!

You scare me.

ninerbuff

I never spank my girls for hitting each other. If one of them hits her sister, she has to stand there and take one back. And before you all start your lecture on how that's teaching them to be violent, listen up. When they are out there in the real world, not this zero tolerance crap that is all around today, they need to know that if they start something they're probably going to get it back...and they also need to learn to not take any crap from anyone. If you're not willing to defend yourself, then who else will? My kids know if a kid at school is a bully and physically harms you in any way, take them out. Sure, they'll get suspended, but I guarantee you they won't be messed with again. I'll just take some vacation days and we'll go have fun while they're suspended.

Got a little off topic there...sorry!

Lol, not in CA. If their opponent loses, they come back with a weapon............................

boomboom011

I never spank my girls for hitting each other. If one of them hits her sister, she has to stand there and take one back. And before you all start your lecture on how that's teaching them to be violent, listen up. When they are out there in the real world, not this zero tolerance crap that is all around today, they need to know that if they start something they're probably going to get it back...and they also need to learn to not take any crap from anyone. If you're not willing to defend yourself, then who else will? My kids know if a kid at school is a bully and physically harms you in any way, take them out. Sure, they'll get suspended, but I guarantee you they won't be messed with again. I'll just take some vacation days and we'll go have fun while they're suspended.

Got a little off topic there...sorry!

thats pretty much how it is in my house too.

ninerbuff

A teacher's job is completely different from a parent's. Trying to compare the two is doomed to failure. A teacher is not there to instill discipline, they are there to teach other skills. A teacher can hand off a troublesome kid to the administration, and if the kid continue to misbehave, the kid gets kicked out. Parents have to figure out a solution no matter what. I don't think the comparison works.

I think you and I are looking at spanking differently. I see it as an option for helping develop appropriate behaviors in kids from about 20 months to about 5 years old. After that age they are able to be disciplined in much more subtle, nuanced ways.

Regarding your statement, it's really quite simple. A two year old doesn't think, "daddy hit me, so I can hit other people" he thinks, "I hit someone and it had a very bad result for me. I shouldn't do that anymore."

And please keep in mind, appropriately administered spanking is not done in anger, is never a surprise to the child, and is done very rarely. The people who continually argue against it (in this thread) are mischaracterizing it, and trying to make it something it's not.

If we want to start a thread about how horrible those parents are who smack their kids in anger, I'll be right there on the side decrying their behavior. Same as parents who scream at their kids. The parents must always be composed, consistent and loving as they administer any kind of discipline.

I might have been convinced that spanking works if I used it on my daughter (like I had done to me) for disciplinary reasons, however I haven't had to and my daughter is respectful and disciplined. Which is why I'm now of the belief that it's NOT necessary.
My cousin spanks his son all the time to punish him. He actually hit my daughter with his hand when they were vying for the same toy. If kids can be taught to read at 3 years old, I'm more than sure they can figure out hitting someone can get their attention.
We disagree and that's okay.

JellyJaks

I never spank my girls for hitting each other. If one of them hits her sister, she has to stand there and take one back. And before you all start your lecture on how that's teaching them to be violent, listen up. When they are out there in the real world, not this zero tolerance crap that is all around today, they need to know that if they start something they're probably going to get it back...and they also need to learn to not take any crap from anyone. If you're not willing to defend yourself, then who else will? My kids know if a kid at school is a bully and physically harms you in any way, take them out. Sure, they'll get suspended, but I guarantee you they won't be messed with again. I'll just take some vacation days and we'll go have fun while they're suspended.

Got a little off topic there...sorry!

I agree with this wholeheartedly. My 3 year old picks on my 1 year old. Takes his toys and things so I take his things away. When he gets upset, I explain to him that he can't treat other people badly and expect that it won't happen to him. Yes he's only 3 but he is capable of understanding cause and effect.

My parents were the same way about getting suspended from school. If I was the one starting the fights, there was hell to pay but the teachers and principal have no right to tell me that I can't defend myself if someone else comes at me first.