Gaining Muscle is NOT that easy.

lexgem

Arguments aside, I think I've learned a bit from this thread. I honestly thought that I had been gaining muscle while eating at a deficit and doing mostly water calisthenics and a body pump class per week, spinning, step, pilates, and a bit of ripped in 30 when I can't make it to the gym (I try to hit each of those classes once a week)
One thing I know for sure is that I have gotten stronger -- I can feel it, I can lift heavier weights in body pump than I could two months ago, I can carry my dog without feeling like I'm going to die, I can actually help my husband move furniture, and I have some (still on the low side of normal) core strength where before I hardly had any at all. I have also increased my endurance.

Before, like 4 years ago, I was 50 kg. But I was skinny-fat. When I joined MFP I was 60 kg (having lost 2 kg through diet alone before joining). Now, I'm 58 kg and I know I look better than I did at 54 kg last time, and I know that last time I was 58 kg there was no way I could fit into the jeans I wear now.

So I assumed I had gained muscle.

I have to admit all I really learned from this thread is that I don't know much. I just want to be in overall better shape. I never want to be that girl who was out of breath for 15 minutes of class after climbing 4 flights of stairs. I never want to be that girl who is exhausted after 10 minutes of skiing and needs frequent breaks. Last year i went skiing with my husband and he did 2 pistes while I was resting, then we did one together and I rested again. So for me it isn't about muscle gain alone or weight loss alone but about being fit overall (which is why I'm doing so many different classes, I figure this way I'm improving my overall fitness and keeping it interesting enough so I don't get bored and quit.
I would like to gain actual muscle, to be stronger and actually be able to help friends move house and be an active participant in my next move beyond just packing boxes. I want to not break my back when picking up my child for the first time (adoption, I might have a 3 year-old...). Kids get heavy faster than lhasa apsos tend to (and mine is big at 7.5 kg), to the point where even a one-year old would be heavy for me at this point, honestly, if I had to carry one around for awhile.

So I'm going to try my best to learn. I want this to work.

Does rowing build muscle? I'm curious because I always thought that swimming did and even running (in the legs). Please don't make fun of me, these are real newbie questions.

Also one question. At the gym, just two days ago, I had measurements done, and I climbed on a scale and the scale actually said what percentage of muscle I have and what percentage of body fat. I can't remember the numbers (my trainer will e-mail me the files this week) except the body fat was 25%. Are those measurements reliable or is it kind of gimmicky and should I just trust the jeans test?

emmab0902

Also one question. At the gym, just two days ago, I had measurements done, and I climbed on a scale and the scale actually said what percentage of muscle I have and what percentage of body fat. I can't remember the numbers (my trainer will e-mail me the files this week) except the body fat was 25%. Are those measurements reliable or is it kind of gimmicky and should I just trust the jeans test?

In my experience they are bollocks. Case in point, when I was at my thinnest (ate nearly no protein and did zero exercise let alone strength training) they said I had 50% lean body mass and -3% body fat - yes you read that right MINUS 3%.

Lyadeia

Does rowing build muscle? I'm curious because I always thought that swimming did and even running (in the legs). Please don't make fun of me, these are real newbie questions.

Also one question. At the gym, just two days ago, I had measurements done, and I climbed on a scale and the scale actually said what percentage of muscle I have and what percentage of body fat. I can't remember the numbers (my trainer will e-mail me the files this week) except the body fat was 25%. Are those measurements reliable or is it kind of gimmicky and should I just trust the jeans test?

Rowing, running, swimming, etc. strengthens the muscle that you have by activating more muscle fibers that you already have. The creation of new muscle fibers comes from resistance training...weight training and body weight exercises (pull-ups, push-ups, etc). I like to think of the brain getting smarter analogy...when you learn something new, you didn't grow new brain matter, you just activated more of what you already had to store new facts.

Those body fat type scales are not that accurate. If you use that scale consistently at the same time of day, wearing the same thing, after the same meal (or lack thereof) it can be used to gauge success by showing a positive change. When measuring body fat like this or some crazy formula that "everyone" knows, lol, it's really not the number that it gives you which is important, but the change in those numbers over time which can numerically show you if you are doing the right thing with your nutrition and workouts. That said, the jeans test is awesome. I've never known someone to jump for joy when their body fat scale said they went from 25 to 24 percent...but it's a different story when that same person fits into a size 4 when they were previously in a 6, for example.

soysos

Arguments aside, I think I've learned a bit from this thread. I honestly thought that I had been gaining muscle while eating at a deficit and doing mostly water calisthenics and a body pump class per week, spinning, step, pilates, and a bit of ripped in 30 when I can't make it to the gym (I try to hit each of those classes once a week)
One thing I know for sure is that I have gotten stronger -- I can feel it, I can lift heavier weights in body pump than I could two months ago, I can carry my dog without feeling like I'm going to die, I can actually help my husband move furniture, and I have some (still on the low side of normal) core strength where before I hardly had any at all. I have also increased my endurance.

Before, like 4 years ago, I was 50 kg. But I was skinny-fat. When I joined MFP I was 60 kg (having lost 2 kg through diet alone before joining). Now, I'm 58 kg and I know I look better than I did at 54 kg last time, and I know that last time I was 58 kg there was no way I could fit into the jeans I wear now.

So I assumed I had gained muscle.

I have to admit all I really learned from this thread is that I don't know much. I just want to be in overall better shape. I never want to be that girl who was out of breath for 15 minutes of class after climbing 4 flights of stairs. I never want to be that girl who is exhausted after 10 minutes of skiing and needs frequent breaks. Last year i went skiing with my husband and he did 2 pistes while I was resting, then we did one together and I rested again. So for me it isn't about muscle gain alone or weight loss alone but about being fit overall (which is why I'm doing so many different classes, I figure this way I'm improving my overall fitness and keeping it interesting enough so I don't get bored and quit.
I would like to gain actual muscle, to be stronger and actually be able to help friends move house and be an active participant in my next move beyond just packing boxes. I want to not break my back when picking up my child for the first time (adoption, I might have a 3 year-old...). Kids get heavy faster than lhasa apsos tend to (and mine is big at 7.5 kg), to the point where even a one-year old would be heavy for me at this point, honestly, if I had to carry one around for awhile.

So I'm going to try my best to learn. I want this to work.

Does rowing build muscle? I'm curious because I always thought that swimming did and even running (in the legs). Please don't make fun of me, these are real newbie questions.

Also one question. At the gym, just two days ago, I had measurements done, and I climbed on a scale and the scale actually said what percentage of muscle I have and what percentage of body fat. I can't remember the numbers (my trainer will e-mail me the files this week) except the body fat was 25%. Are those measurements reliable or is it kind of gimmicky and should I just trust the jeans test?

you did gain muscle. one cannot get stronger without gaining muscle.

lexgem

Rowing, running, swimming, etc. strengthens the muscle that you have by activating more muscle fibers that you already have. The creation of new muscle fibers comes from resistance training...weight training and body weight exercises (pull-ups, push-ups, etc). I like to think of the brain getting smarter analogy...when you learn something new, you didn't grow new brain matter, you just activated more of what you already had to store new facts.

Thanks! This makes a lot of sense to me, actually. I think that's mostly what I've been doing, but I think I might have put on a (little) muscle mass over the last 2 months, since I do body pump once a week and pilates (pilates builds muscles, right, since it uses body weight quite a bit with the planks), aquagym (a lot of resistance training in my particular class with floating objects we need to push, pull, and the core is engaged quite a bit too) and of course ripped in 30 has some strength too.

One more question, about "muscle confusion". What does that do exactly? Is that for strengthening muscle you already have, building new muscle, or both?

Lyadeia

One more question, about "muscle confusion". What does that do exactly? Is that for strengthening muscle you already have, building new muscle, or both?

Muscle confusion is a fancy way of saying that you do different exercises to hit the same muscle. Like for a month I do hammer curls for the biceps, and then in the second month I do preacher curls. People like to throw the term around a lot lately, especially because of P90X. Not that I am downing P90X, cause I love the program. Anyway, it's mainly used a way to keep your workouts varied so you avoid plateaus. This can be a building muscle plateau, or a losing fat plateau...but changing up your routines when they start becoming less effective is really all it boils down to. In P90X, you change routines every 4 weeks. You still work the same muscles, just do different exercises in different orders to prevent your body from getting too accustomed to it.

dad106

AZackery, don't listen to these people. They are just jealous.

I just want to say jealous of what.. the fact that she has no clue what she's talking about and has been refuted multiple times?

Hell, I even know better then her, and I don't know that much about gaining muscle except what I've read from the people refuting her on this site.

soysos

First off if rowing, swimming, and running is not resistance training define resistance.

Second any time you stress your muscles beyond what there used to they break down, after that the body repairs them. Do it consistently the protects itself from farther damage by building more muscle fibers. This is how streangth is built. Any activity can become resistance training if the muscles are breaking down. This may not be the fastest way to build muscle but ot will build.

PB67

you did gain muscle. one cannot get stronger without gaining muscle.

This is not true at all.

Two words: Rate Coding.

PB67

One more question, about "muscle confusion". What does that do exactly? Is that for strengthening muscle you already have, building new muscle, or both?

Nothing.

Muscle confusion is a myth used to sell a product.

soysos

you did gain muscle. one cannot get stronger without gaining muscle.

This is not true at all.

Two words: Rate Coding.

Only in the short term. In the long run the body builds more muscle tissue to prevent ferther damage.

PB67

you did gain muscle. one cannot get stronger without gaining muscle.

This is not true at all.

Two words: Rate Coding.

Only in the short term. In the long run the body builds more muscle tissue to prevent ferther damage.

Then how do you explain how elite Olympic Weightlifters increase their lifts while remaining in the same weight class.

Sidesteal

you did gain muscle. one cannot get stronger without gaining muscle.

This is not true at all.

Two words: Rate Coding.

^ Not actually familiar with this term but I'll go learn about it now, thanks. This has to be some form of neurological adaption I would imagine, or a combination of that and technique improvement?

As far as getting stronger and not getting bigger muscles -- I started cutting in the beginning of September and I have all of my lifts logged. I'm literally gaining strength everywhere, whether it's in the form of additional reps or adding weight to the bar. I'm stronger now than I ever have been, and I am decreasing in bodyweight.

I'm willing to bet that I am not gaining lean mass.

EDIT: Cool, just found some good info. I really should read all of Lyle's articles.

PB67

you did gain muscle. one cannot get stronger without gaining muscle.

This is not true at all.

Two words: Rate Coding.

^ Not actually familiar with this term but I'll go learn about it now, thanks. This has to be some form of neurological adaption I would imagine,

and you would be correct.

or a combination of that and technique improvement?

If we're picking nits, this does not really affect strength, per se. It does, of course, have a significant influence on the metric by which we commonly measure strength (ie weight on the bar).

But you are correct. One can increase the weight they lift through a combination of neural adaptations and improvements in technique.


The problem is that most people don't understand the fallacy of denying the antecedent.

"If I gain muscle, then I will be stronger" is (generally) a true statement. But this does not logically imply the converse statement "If I got stronger, then I gained muscle"

/labcoat off.

tigersword

First off if rowing, swimming, and running is not resistance training define resistance.

Second any time you stress your muscles beyond what there used to they break down, after that the body repairs them. Do it consistently the protects itself from farther damage by building more muscle fibers. This is how streangth is built. Any activity can become resistance training if the muscles are breaking down. This may not be the fastest way to build muscle but ot will build.

Resistance training forces an overload of muscle fibers. Running and swimming do not overload the muscles. Muscle fatigue is not the same thing as overload. Plus running and swimming use different muscle fibers. Muscles need to be overloaded in order to grow, they do not need to grow to get stronger.

I'll use my favorite rope example. You have 4 pieces of rope attached to one pulley. You attach one of the 4 ropes to a box, and the others hang free. That's an untrained muscle, it can't lift the box. Now you attach the other 3 ropes to the box and lift it. The ropes didn't get bigger, they are the same rope, but they got stronger, as they are all being used together. That's how muscle gets stronger without gaining mass.

Now overload would be after attaching all 4 ropes, you still can't lift the box, so you go out and buy a couple more ropes and attach those to the box as well. Now you've grown your rope and increased the strength more, in order to lift the box. That's muscle growth.

Sidesteal

you did gain muscle. one cannot get stronger without gaining muscle.

This is not true at all.

Two words: Rate Coding.

^ Not actually familiar with this term but I'll go learn about it now, thanks. This has to be some form of neurological adaption I would imagine,

and you would be correct.

or a combination of that and technique improvement?

If we're picking nits, this does not really affect strength, per se. It does, of course, have a significant influence on the metric by which we commonly measure strength (ie weight on the bar).

But you are correct. One can increase the weight they lift through a combination of neural adaptations and improvements in technique.


The problem is that most people don't understand the fallacy of denying the antecedent.

"If I gain muscle, then I will be stronger" is (generally) a true statement. But this does not logically imply the converse statement "If I got stronger, then I gained muscle"

/labcoat off.

^ Good post, thanks.

Contrarian

AZackery, don't listen to these people. They are just jealous.

I just want to say jealous of what.. the fact that she has no clue what she's talking about and has been refuted multiple times?

Hell, I even know better then her, and I don't know that much about gaining muscle except what I've read from the people refuting her on this site.

It's a very common response on these boards. It was a jest.

maidentl

They don't have much backing them up either.

The arrogance is ASTOUNDING.

Amyeeeeeee

I have been gaining and maintaining so I guess I am not gaining muscle or losing weight. I started a fat burner thru the direct supervision of a trainer friend who is a GM for GNC and I weigh n on Monday. I wonder if I will see any results. Wish me luck yall. AND SUNSHINE... shes always shinning so BACK OFF... lol love ya gurl. You are my motivation

ninerbuff

I could be wrong, but I don't think every competitor do this.

ALL competitors bulk up in offseason and cut for competition. The whole point of competition is to gain as much muscle as possible and have symmetry, aesthetic, and shape.

You said that you have pretty much stayed the same weight, give 10lbs or so for the last 20 years, but your body fat percentage didn't. At 165 you said that your body fat percentage was 8% and now in 2011, you weight 185 pounds with a body fat percentage of 18% or closer, you aren't sure, because you aren't sure. For all you know, you can be in the 20'ish body fat percentage.

Lets compare your numbers.

Your results at 165 pounds and 8% body fat percentage.

Previous results:
165 (Your weight) x 8% (Your body fat percentage) = 13.2 Pounds of fat
165 - 13.2 = 151.8 Pounds of lean body mass

Present results:
185 x 18% = 33.3 Pounds of fat
185 - 33.3 = 151.7 Pounds of lean body mass

Total Results:

185(Your current weight) - 165 (Your previous weight) = 20 pounds
33.3(Your current pounds of fat) - 13.2 (Previous pounds of fat) = 20.1 Pounds of fat
151.8 (Previous lean body mass) - 151.7 (Current lean body mass) = 0.1 loss
18%(Current body fat percentage) - 8%(Previous body fat percentage)

What does this means? In 22 years with those numbers:

You've gained 20 pounds of scale weight
You've gained 20.1 pounds of fat
You've loss 0.1 lean body mass
You've gained 10% body fat percentage.

I'm sure I've lost muscle in the last 5 years since my strength is slowly diminishing. I can't squat, bench or deadlift the poundages that I used to. And I'm okay with that since I know that my testosterone levels are lower as a natural trainer. I still lift as heavy as I can, but I've also been working more on my endurance through cardio.

Do you know his starting body fat percentage and ending body fat percentage? Just because Lee lost 45 pounds of scale weight, it doesn't mean he lost 45 pounds of fat.

If I knew his body fat percentage at 250 pounds and his body fat percentage at 205 pounds. I can see how much pounds of fat he loss and how much lean body mass he gained.

No. He looks to me at about 35% in the pic. And I'm sure he lost muscle along with fat since it's practically impossible not to.

It's possible, yes.

Water retention, lack of sleep, sodium, hormones, exercise...........these all throw off numbers. A client I had recently lost 26lbs and she wanted to compare a body fat measurement I took from January of this year. She was obviously more lean and much harder. After the test, her body fat was read as HIGHER. Why? Because though she weighed less, she had previously exercised before I took the test and water gathered underneath the skin making the pinch for calipers much thicker than usual. So though I did the same procedure, the numbers revealed the results that SEEMED to be right when in truth she and I knew they weren't. To do comparisons, the conditions need to be consistent too.

I'm only thinking for myself. I have never said that people should think like me.

There's more than one way to get a person's body fat percentage than a caliper. I have a caliper, but don't use it. I own a 6 year old body fat scale and a 2 month old Omron Handheld body fat monitor. Both gives me the same body fat reading.

A lot of trainers use the Omron handheld body fat monitor.

Bio impedance is one of the most unreliable ways to measure. Try this. Take a reading. Then drink a good amount of water. Check it again in 20 minutes and the reading will be much different. It reads by the amount of time that electricity travels through your body. But water will change the readings.

I have never said that it was easy to gain muscle. I've made it clear more than once that it's not easy to gain muscle or even to lose pounds of fat. I've said it's easy to get muscular arms fast. You do realize that muscular arms doesn't necessary mean bodybuilder arms, right?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you say on the line of that muscular arms is the result of a low body fat percentage?

A person doesn't have to lift weights to get muscular arms. Some children have muscular arms.

To me, regular muscular arms = ripped and bodybuilder arms = bulky(Lee Priest's arms = bulky, they don't equal ripped in my eyes.). Bruce Lee to me = ripped.

Thank you for your time. We know where each other stand. Continue doing what you are doing.

Bruce Lee lifted weights. In fact he is one of the first people who brought "conditioning" into the public eye. We obviously have a subjective view of what muscular means. I don't consider Bruce Lee as muscular because his arms were only about 12 1/2 inches in circumference. That's about the average size of most males arms who don't exercise. So I we do have subjective views on this.