You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!
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Post broscience from Mike Mentzer.Opinion battles are always fun, but here goes in support of the OP. You're not in true caloric deficit from a global standpoint IF you have adipose tissue storing excess bodyfat. That total comes from calories harvested from reserves and those that you put in your mouth. Your body can only access so much of that reserve in any given day because it's in a bank so to speak. That weekly amount is given to be about 2 lbs give or take depending on your biology and the level of your bodyfat...it's related to the surface area of blood vessels and the capacity of the blood to access the network of fat tissue...the less fat you have the smaller that surface area is and the slower that maximum harvest rate can be. Those calories will build muscle using your protein intake and adipose tissue cataboloized to fuel other processes and carbohydrate to fuel brain activities and other cardiovascular functions. If what you put in your mouth is too low for adipose harvesting to completely balance the body's activities than NO you may not build muscle...but that caloric level suggested by MFP is programmed to NOT go that low...that's why it warns you to eat more if you complete a diary day dramatically under your guidelines.
About muscles: if you push your body beyond its capabilities, up to a certain genetic potential (yours), it will build beyond that level in anticipation of the next attack being worse. "Beyond capabilities" is subjective and by that I mean you exercise to muscular failure and then give the muscles adequate rest...look into a book by Dr. Ellington Darden at your local library called "The New High Intensity Training." What's missing in most of our routines is number 1: sufficient sleep each night and rest between exercise sessions and number 2: proper intensity, as in TO FAILURE...as in you can't complete the last rep. The lion fights once a week or so then sleeps and gets waited on by the brood but is the strongest animal in the wild. Ever see a lion on a treadmill? Doing push-ups between fights? How about 4 sets of an exercise? We're animals too and our muscles need to be proven a point and that point is they're not big enough and you can only do that by making them fail...then a week of rest so they can come back ~5% stronger. You shouldn't be working out for strength more than 15-30 minutes a week. This is a safe way to exercise on nautilus machines when slow, 5-10 second motions are used for each rep without jerking...in fact, by doing fewer sets your joints will last longer, too.
The gender complaint is also bunk...women's body's are no thermodynamic perpetual motion machines, although I think they're craftier at survival so fat may be harder to burn for many ladies since women carry an unbalanced burden on the perpetuation of our species--not sexist here, just saying that if a population can keep one man alive, he can perpetuate a species as long as many women are also around. Men are in a way disposable...it's not a good thing to be able to trim down quickly...thinner is closer to death if the food supply disappears. Women can also use the HIT workout routine without fear of bulking up because the hormones aren't there to build lots of muscle...but the benefits are there for the skeleton and connective tissue so ladies, too, should be working the muscles periodically to failure...it hurts to work out this way, but it's a burn and it's easier to get to the gym and pour yourself on the floor once every 8 days than get there 4-5 times a week and feel worn out, defeated and intimidated by the grunting fools that spend all day there posing in the mirror. Nobody needs to eat extra protein to build muscle either...need proof? Submit your urine to a lab for amino analysis. We're excreting excess every day...probably only need 30-90 grams a day depending on your size and building goals. For what it's worth...
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I don't worry about losing muscle, but then I've lost my weight slowly, 33 lbs over 3 years, and I'm trying to lose 95 more, but at this rate, it will be a while. Seriously, I am trying to do it a little faster now.
I'm a 40 something woman who builds muscle extremely easily. It's annoying and used to be embarrassing. My calves still look ridiculous and I don't really work out anymore. I think it's genetic, although my mother was petite, and not muscular at all, so I don't know where the genes come from quite honestly. Maybe from my father's side.
I believe so much of our body type is genetic, because my adult son looks like a younger version of his paternal grandfather who was NOT muscular and just a string bean. He's extremely lean, and comes by it naturally.
But anyway, I do agree, that trying to retain what you have is a good idea, if for no other reason, weight bearing exercise is also good for your bone density.0 -
1st off, congrats on your loss. 2nd, damn your body makes me wanna lol. And 3rd. I love how everyone loves to argue on forums. No im right, no im right! Shoot. I will side with you on this one!0
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Muscle will ALWAYS stick out with less fat around it. That is not an indication that muscle was built.I am lifting weights and losing weight (calorie deficit). The result? I am not only losing fat, but gaining muscle. How do I know this? Because my biceps, triceps and other muscles now stick out! I am a woman, age 46 and very happy to point out that although I am still not at my goal, I have muscles and I don't look manly!
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Did you know that you can add muscle as you gain weight without working out? If you ever look at most obese/ overweight people when they were young, they had small calves, but now sport calves that pro bodybuilder envy. Why? Well all that weight had to be carried. Calves grew because of the weight.
No I didnt, why would I ? Below is a pic. of when I was 25, ( along with the other pics I posted) I got married at 26 and started to gain fat soon after. But at 25 I was fully grown and at the point that I wasnt going to gain any more muscle naturally. Also I am almost 6"2 with long arms and legs, if I was just under 5"10 (the height of the avg. adult male) It would be easier to see my lean muscle gains.Did you get a DEXA or body pod done before you leaned out? It doesn't look like you gained very much muscle at all, but retained your muscle and lost the fat. /shrug. FWIW, IMO You weren't skinny fat in the beginning, you had a good base underneath, you were just overweight, simple as that. As you trained the muscle you probably added some density to it, retained it, gaining definition around the muscle from losing fat, but you certainly don't look like you gained very much LM.
Congrats on your hardwork though, you look great.
Now please tell me that I wasnt "" skinny fat""
March-2011 (- 10/12lbs)
May-2011
Aug-2011
Oct-2011
Jan-2012
Present
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I once read a study where sedentary men that were given testosterone supplements (steroids) actually gained more muscle then men that were given a placebo while heavy weight training. Diet was the same in both groups, kind of amusing, really.0
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Gonna make some popcorn!0
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[/quote]Here are pics of me over the past year while losing 74 lbs and gaining plenty of lean muscle. I was what I would call " Skinny Fat" I had very little lean muscle before I started to work out. If I didnt lift weights while dieting I wouldnt be were I am today. And im 42 years old!
March-2011 (- 10/12lbs)
May-2011
Aug-2011
Oct-2011
Jan-2012
Present
You look amazing! Very well done! It just goes to show that muscle makes everyone look so much younger and generally HEALTHY!0 -
Let me say that the OP has done a great job getting into great shape. What he's achieved is tough to do and does take a lot of discipline and dedication. I'm just disagreeing with him on muscle gain.
It's obvious in photos with higher body fat, that his musculature is much improved compared to his 25 year old pics. Just reducing that bodyfat made the muscle pop.
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ninerbuff, nice to see your intelligent voice of reason around these part!0
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Thx and not to be rude but you dont have a clue about my body. My arms,upper chest, Even prior to losing weight my upper chest was skin and bone, no muscle or fat) calves, shoulders, traps ( i didnt have traps) are all larger now -74 lbs of fat than they were last March. All you have to do is compare the May 2011 pic to the August 2011 pic, ( and my arms were larger in May 2011 than they were in March 2011 at my highest weight)Let me say that the OP has done a great job getting into great shape. What he's achieved is tough to do and does take a lot of discipline and dedication. I'm just disagreeing with him on muscle gain.
It's obvious in photos with higher body fat, that his musculature is much improved compared to his 25 year old pics. Just reducing that bodyfat made the muscle pop.
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First I am just shy of 6"2 with long arms and legs, If I was the avg. height for an adult male I would be less than 5 "10 and my lean muscle gains would be more impressive. Both of my arms are atleast 1.5 inches larger than they were prior to losing 74 lbs. If I didnt gain a considerable amount of lean muscle this couldnt be possible because the avg adult male needs to gain atleast 10 lbs of muscle to increase his arm size by 1 inch.
Sorry but you don't look like you gained plenty of lean muscle. You DID lose body fat to show more "definition" of muscle. This is a misconception that many a person who isn't experienced in the field believes.Here are pics of me over the past year while losing 74 lbs and gaining plenty of lean muscle. I was what I would call " Skinny Fat" I had very little lean muscle before I started to work out. If I didnt lift weights while dieting I wouldnt be were I am today. And im 42 years old!
March-2011 (- 10/12lbs)
May-2011
Aug-2011
Oct-2011
Jan-2012
Present
It takes A LOT of hard work to put on lean muscle even while on calorie surplus. Trust what actual science research (peer reviewed not pseudoscience) has shown and don't believe the hype that many supplement companies or programs that "experts" want you to buy.
While there a few exceptions of being able to build "some" muscle on a calorie deficit, even the exceptions aren't building a significant amount that is very noticeable.
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Well my calves and lower legs were always skinny even at my highest weight but they are now larger than they were last march.
Did you know that you can add muscle as you gain weight without working out? If you ever look at most obese/ overweight people when they were young, they had small calves, but now sport calves that pro bodybuilder envy. Why? Well all that weight had to be carried. Calves grew because of the weight.
No I didnt, why would I ? Below is a pic. of when I was 25, ( along with the other pics I posted) I got married at 26 and started to gain fat soon after. But at 25 I was fully grown and at the point that I wasnt going to gain any more muscle naturally. Also I am almost 6"2 with long arms and legs, if I was just under 5"10 (the height of the avg. adult male) It would be easier to see my lean muscle gains.Did you get a DEXA or body pod done before you leaned out? It doesn't look like you gained very much muscle at all, but retained your muscle and lost the fat. /shrug. FWIW, IMO You weren't skinny fat in the beginning, you had a good base underneath, you were just overweight, simple as that. As you trained the muscle you probably added some density to it, retained it, gaining definition around the muscle from losing fat, but you certainly don't look like you gained very much LM.
Congrats on your hardwork though, you look great.
Now please tell me that I wasnt "" skinny fat""
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I agree!! Infact "overfat" is probably an understatement.:laugh:You think he was "overfat" in those pictures?
Thinkin you might be right!0 -
Sorry!0 -
Even though I was bred,born raised and lived my entire life in the birth place of bbing, weightlifting and unfortunately steriods in the United States I did not know that. But out of the guys that I knew that took steriods over the years only one of them tried to take steriods and not lift and he didnt gain any muscle, just looked bloated.I once read a study where sedentary men that were given testosterone supplements (steroids) actually gained more muscle then men that were given a placebo while heavy weight training. Diet was the same in both groups, kind of amusing, really.0 -
Thank you aswell as everyone else who complimented me!! I really apreciate them all.1st off, congrats on your loss. 2nd, damn your body makes me wanna lol. And 3rd. I love how everyone loves to argue on forums. No im right, no im right! Shoot. I will side with you on this one!0 -
Well I didnt eat at a deficit once over the last year, I ate at a surplus. I also made sure every bit of food I did eat was high in protein to make sure I was eating 1+ gram of protein for every ib. of body weight. My diet has also been high in carbs aswell.
While I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, most people here would be considered "novice" in a strength program. I still qualify as a novice even after some time in lifting. I eat at deficit, I am losing bf% and scale weight. Will that last forever? No. But it has lasted a while and would apply to most people on this site.You can gain strength in a calorie deficit. Gaining muscle is pretty rare, and is limited to beginners to weight lifting, and those coming back after a long break (muscle memory). For the rest of us, we strength train during deficit to maintain lean mass and maintain or increase strength.0 -
Wait, wasn't this thread started as a way of you telling people you can gain muscle on a calorie deficit, and used yourself as an example? But you didn't eat at a deficit. So, now I'm all confused. :huh:
Well I didnt eat at a deficit once over the last year, I ate at a surplus. I also made sure every bit of food I did eat was high in protein to make sure I was eating 1+ gram of protein for every ib. of body weight. My diet has also been high in carbs aswell.
While I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, most people here would be considered "novice" in a strength program. I still qualify as a novice even after some time in lifting. I eat at deficit, I am losing bf% and scale weight. Will that last forever? No. But it has lasted a while and would apply to most people on this site.You can gain strength in a calorie deficit. Gaining muscle is pretty rare, and is limited to beginners to weight lifting, and those coming back after a long break (muscle memory). For the rest of us, we strength train during deficit to maintain lean mass and maintain or increase strength.0
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