Let's talk about...the Paleo Diet
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And your point is? Everyone knows if you eat 10k calories a day you're going to gain weight, that has nothing to do with paleo, you only brought it up in a feeble attempt to make it look like paleo is the same as anything else, and it's not. people that follow paleo tend to not over eat, you may be an exception, people that follow paleo tend to be satiated with less, you may be an exception.
Really? Seriously???I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.You need to go to a Brazilian rodizio, I can hit 10,000 calories in one sitting on just fat and protein.
My WHOLE point was that even on Paleo you may need to count calories, as I would. And in response to your comment about the tendencies of people on Paleo, they also tend to say they can eat just as much as they want without worrying about it. I disagree with that stance, hence my original post. Again I didn't realize I was so cryptic.I'm telling you right her and now, without even knowing your diet at the time, IT WAS NOT THE MEAT YOU ATE THAT MADE YOU GAIN 30 pounds, period.
That's a very big difference from 'people on Paleo tend to not over eat'.0 -
Bump. Because I just can't get enough.
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:flowerforyou:0
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Bump. Because I just can't get enough.0 -
And your point is? Everyone knows if you eat 10k calories a day you're going to gain weight, that has nothing to do with paleo, you only brought it up in a feeble attempt to make it look like paleo is the same as anything else, and it's not. people that follow paleo tend to not over eat, you may be an exception, people that follow paleo tend to be satiated with less, you may be an exception.
Really? Seriously???I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.You need to go to a Brazilian rodizio, I can hit 10,000 calories in one sitting on just fat and protein.
My WHOLE point was that even on Paleo you may need to count calories, as I would. And in response to your comment about the tendencies of people on Paleo, they also tend to say they can eat just as much as they want without worrying about it. I disagree with that stance, hence my original post. Again I didn't realize I was so cryptic.I'm telling you right her and now, without even knowing your diet at the time, IT WAS NOT THE MEAT YOU ATE THAT MADE YOU GAIN 30 pounds, period.
That's a very big difference from 'people on Paleo tend to not over eat'.
There are no long term studies that show one is better than the other. We agree on that.
You posted stuff that I did not write. And when some one says you can eat as much as you want, it does not means as much as "you" want because obviously you want more than just what satisfies you, you have a mental problem with overeating. Most people over eat because they have a physical problem with over eating, brought on by excess refined carbs. A person on paleo does not have these physical problems, and stop when they are full. Maybe you should try it, it might help with your over eating problem .0 -
I'm telling you right her and now, without even knowing your diet at the time, IT WAS NOT THE MEAT YOU ATE THAT MADE YOU GAIN 30 pounds, period.
That's a very big difference from 'people on Paleo tend to not over eat'.
Not really, because you were not eating paleo, just because you sat down to a 4 hour meal of 8 pounds of meat. The reason I asked what else you ate.0 -
I'm telling you right her and now, without even knowing your diet at the time, IT WAS NOT THE MEAT YOU ATE THAT MADE YOU GAIN 30 pounds, period.
That's a very big difference from 'people on Paleo tend to not over eat'.
Not really, because you were not eating paleo, just because you sat down to a 4 hour meal of 8 pounds of meat. The reason I asked what else you ate.
You're STILL missing my point...I don't know how to be any clearer.0 -
So after 500 posts we still don't have any scientific studies showing that Paleo is the best diet?0
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I'm telling you right her and now, without even knowing your diet at the time, IT WAS NOT THE MEAT YOU ATE THAT MADE YOU GAIN 30 pounds, period.
That's a very big difference from 'people on Paleo tend to not over eat'.
Not really, because you were not eating paleo, just because you sat down to a 4 hour meal of 8 pounds of meat. The reason I asked what else you ate.
You're STILL missing my point...I don't know how to be any clearer.
oh you're clear all right, you tried to relate your eating 8 pounds of meat to being paleo, and it's not even close. I guessing you realize this, and this is the reason you won't tell us what else you ate during this period. Paleo isn't just one meal, it's a lifestyle.0 -
So after 500 posts we still don't have any scientific studies showing that Paleo is the best diet?
No such studies exist. So time to end the thread?0 -
oh you're clear all right, you tried to relate your eating 8 pounds of meat to being paleo, and it's not even close. I guessing you realize this, and this is the reason you won't tell us what else you ate during this period. Paleo isn't just one meal, it's a lifestyle.
*sigh
I was making a point that it's possible to overeat even on Paleo, which you admitted was true. I wasn't trying to say I was eating Paleo or that I follow that diet, just that it could be done under the 'Paleo' constraint. As I had already mentioned, it's very common to hear someone say 'and I can eat as much as I want and still lose weight' regarding their diet which is bogus.
It's possible to overeat on any diet, depending on the person it may be harder to do on certain diets than others, but it's still possible. Whatever lifestyle you're living doesn't change the law of thermodynamics. Whether you're on Paleo, or the cabbage soup diet, or HCG, or whatever weird crap you can think up, calories are STILL a concern, period. Even if you personally don't count calories, they still matter and will dictate whether you lose weight, stay the same, or gain weight.
That was my WHOLE point. I gave a scenario where, for a given meal, it was possible to overeat and stay within the Paleo paradigm. Would I eat that same meal every single day forever? No, but there are scenarios where you can consume an excess of calories while on the Paleo diet. Doing that too often would result in weight gain. If you eat too many calories, you will gain weight, regardless of if those calories happen to come from a food source that make you feel good about yourself or not. That's IT. I'm not wrong in that regard. You really didn't get my point.
You've claimed studies that Paleo is superior, but won't stand by to them being scrutinized. You claim anecdotal evidence as the basis for your argument, but can't get across the simple question: Given comparable caloric and nutritional intake, is a strictly-Paleo diet better than other dieting tactics?
That isn't a hit job on Paleo. It simply gives people more options. If there is no measurable difference between Paleo and other dieting techniques, someone who really likes foods that are disallowed by the Paleo paradigm could opt for a different diet that has the same nutritional merit. If they can give up those foods, they might choose Paleo if they find fewer issues with hunger, for example.
You're fixating on minor points and making large assumptions about other's intentions without actually getting clarification from them. I honestly have nothing against Paleo, I just think it's as good as other diet paradigms rather than the best of all of them. What is extremely aggravating is to say the same thing over and over and OVER and still have the point missed.
If you really want to know what I ate fine: I had a diet extremely heavy in meat. Beef, pork, fish, and chicken was easily 60% of my calorie intake, if not more. After that bread and cheese took up the large majority. Following that was fruits, then junk food like ice cream and alcohol and candy, and lastly vegetables. I recognize it was an unhealthy diet, but to say it wasn't the meat's fault is completely missing the point I was trying to make.0 -
oh you're clear all right, you tried to relate your eating 8 pounds of meat to being paleo, and it's not even close. I guessing you realize this, and this is the reason you won't tell us what else you ate during this period. Paleo isn't just one meal, it's a lifestyle.
*sigh
I was making a point that it's possible to overeat even on Paleo, which you admitted was true. I wasn't trying to say I was eating Paleo or that I follow that diet, just that it could be done under the 'Paleo' constraint. As I had already mentioned, it's very common to hear someone say 'and I can eat as much as I want and still lose weight' regarding their diet which is bogus.
It's possible to overeat on any diet, depending on the person it may be harder to do on certain diets than others, but it's still possible. Whatever lifestyle you're living doesn't change the law of thermodynamics. Whether you're on Paleo, or the cabbage soup diet, or HCG, or whatever weird crap you can think up, calories are STILL a concern, period. Even if you personally don't count calories, they still matter and will dictate whether you lose weight, stay the same, or gain weight.
That was my WHOLE point. I gave a scenario where, for a given meal, it was possible to overeat and stay within the Paleo paradigm. Would I eat that same meal every single day forever? No, but there are scenarios where you can consume an excess of calories while on the Paleo diet. Doing that too often would result in weight gain. If you eat too many calories, you will gain weight, regardless of if those calories happen to come from a food source that make you feel good about yourself or not. That's IT. I'm not wrong in that regard. You really didn't get my point.
You've claimed studies that Paleo is superior, but won't stand by to them being scrutinized. You claim anecdotal evidence as the basis for your argument, but can't get across the simple question: Given comparable caloric and nutritional intake, is a strictly-Paleo diet better than other dieting tactics?
That isn't a hit job on Paleo. It simply gives people more options. If there is no measurable difference between Paleo and other dieting techniques, someone who really likes foods that are disallowed by the Paleo paradigm could opt for a different diet that has the same nutritional merit. If they can give up those foods, they might choose Paleo if they find fewer issues with hunger, for example.
You're fixating on minor points and making large assumptions about other's intentions without actually getting clarification from them. I honestly have nothing against Paleo, I just think it's as good as other diet paradigms rather than the best of all of them. What is extremely aggravating is to say the same thing over and over and OVER and still have the point missed.
If you really want to know what I ate fine: I had a diet extremely heavy in meat. Beef, pork, fish, and chicken was easily 60% of my calorie intake, if not more. After that bread and cheese took up the large majority. Following that was fruits, then junk food like ice cream and alcohol and candy, and lastly vegetables. I recognize it was an unhealthy diet, but to say it wasn't the meat's fault is completely missing the point I was trying to make.
Here we go. The classic strawman used against low-carbers, that we all believe you cannot gain weight on a low-carb diet because calories don't matter. Nobody who has spent enough time researching the diet actually believes that. What we ALWAYS mean when we say "eat as much as you want", is that you can eat to "satiety" and it will still lead to a caloric deficit. I don't know why this is an unimportant benefit for anyone who wants to lose weight.
I've always believed the key to weight loss is managing appetite, not manual calorie intervention. Appetite controls calories which control weight loss. You don't want to leave your appetite unsatisfied by artificially reducing calories, otherwise you will eventually cave in.0 -
Here we go. The classic strawman used against low-carbers, that we all believe you cannot gain weight on a low-carb diet because calories don't matter. Nobody who has spent enough time researching the diet actually believes that. What we ALWAYS mean when we say "eat as much as you want", is that you can eat to "satiety" and it will still lead to a caloric deficit. I don't know why this is an unimportant benefit for anyone who wants to lose weight.
I've always believed the key to weight loss is managing appetite, not manual calorie intervention. Appetite controls calories which control weight loss. You don't want to leave your appetite unsatisfied by artificially reducing calories, otherwise you will eventually cave in.
Can you blame people for being confused? For not understanding that when you say "eat as much as you want" that what you mean — ALWAYS — is something different?0 -
exactly. i dont care to get involved really in a debate but when most paleo people say they eat as much as they want...thats what they mean. they eat until they are done. there is no urge to snack and overeat bcause you are getting actual nourishment from the natural foods you are eating. there is no need to measure because your body tells you when it is done. on other diets that are loaded with crap foods with barely any nutrients its easy to over eat because although your calories are high your body is still starving for nutrients.
also, i found a finnish study that determined when a population was given larger ammounts of CLA (a specific lipid) their rates of cancer went down. what has the most dense source of CLA you may ask??? GRASSFED BEEF, which is one of the main components of a true healthy paleo diet. is that enough for you? probably not but good luck sucking on granola bars every two hours because your body is starving for nutrients.0 -
Here we go. The classic strawman used against low-carbers, that we all believe you cannot gain weight on a low-carb diet because calories don't matter. Nobody who has spent enough time researching the diet actually believes that. What we ALWAYS mean when we say "eat as much as you want", is that you can eat to "satiety" and it will still lead to a caloric deficit. I don't know why this is an unimportant benefit for anyone who wants to lose weight.
I've always believed the key to weight loss is managing appetite, not manual calorie intervention. Appetite controls calories which control weight loss. You don't want to leave your appetite unsatisfied by artificially reducing calories, otherwise you will eventually cave in.
Can you blame people for being confused? For not understanding that when you say "eat as much as you want" that what you mean — ALWAYS — is something different?
The poster did clarify what he meant.0 -
Here we go. The classic strawman used against low-carbers, that we all believe you cannot gain weight on a low-carb diet because calories don't matter. Nobody who has spent enough time researching the diet actually believes that. What we ALWAYS mean when we say "eat as much as you want", is that you can eat to "satiety" and it will still lead to a caloric deficit. I don't know why this is an unimportant benefit for anyone who wants to lose weight.
I've always believed the key to weight loss is managing appetite, not manual calorie intervention. Appetite controls calories which control weight loss. You don't want to leave your appetite unsatisfied by artificially reducing calories, otherwise you will eventually cave in.
I wasn't responding to everyone following a low carb diet, I was originally responding to this point:
[quote}
I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.
[/quote]
And then of courseI'm telling you right her and now, without even knowing your diet at the time, IT WAS NOT THE MEAT YOU ATE THAT MADE YOU GAIN 30 pounds, period.
At one point, I did sayAnd in response to your comment about the tendencies of people on Paleo, they also tend to say they can eat just as much as they want without worrying about it.
But I was intentionally stretching the meaning, as were that comments made by the person I directed that at.
It might seem obvious to you (as it is to me) that you will always gain weight if you eat to many calories, regardless of where they come from. I would also go so far as to say that any well informed person who follows a given diet would mean satiety (and even in that case, at most they could mean satiety for "most" people), there are countless people following all manner of diets (certainly not just low carb) who are decidedly not well informed. How many times have you seen circumstances where that fact isn't referenced, to the detriment of people who may be trying that particular diet? I've seen more scenarios like that than ones where logic and actual scientific evidence are used. For that reason, I feel it is an important distinction to make.0 -
The poster did clarify what he meant.
After my initial response, I wasn't really referring to the person who made that comment. I always try to quote the people I'm responding to for clarity.0 -
exactly. i dont care to get involved really in a debate but when most paleo people say they eat as much as they want...thats what they mean. they eat until they are done. there is no urge to snack and overeat bcause you are getting actual nourishment from the natural foods you are eating. there is no need to measure because your body tells you when it is done. on other diets that are loaded with crap foods with barely any nutrients its easy to over eat because although your calories are high your body is still starving for nutrients.
also, i found a finnish study that determined when a population was given larger ammounts of CLA (a specific lipid) their rates of cancer went down. what has the most dense source of CLA you may ask??? GRASSFED BEEF, which is one of the main components of a true healthy paleo diet. is that enough for you? probably not but good luck sucking on granola bars every two hours because your body is starving for nutrients.
here is the link to the scientific study:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15327914NC382_20 -
The poster did clarify what he meant.
After my initial response, I wasn't really referring to the person who made that comment. I always try to quote the people I'm responding to for clarity.
Okay, but just as you wanted the message to be clear to others that you can gain weight on Paleo, I also wanted the message to be clear that Paleo and other low-carb dieters aren't all zealots who believe our diet exempts us from the laws of physics.0 -
The poster did clarify what he meant.
After my initial response, I wasn't really referring to the person who made that comment. I always try to quote the people I'm responding to for clarity.
Okay, but just as you wanted the message to be clear to others that you can gain weight on Paleo, I also wanted the message to be clear that Paleo and other low-carb dieters aren't all zealots who believe our diet exempts us from the laws of physics.
Point taken.0 -
heres some more studies for you:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract
http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/5/1102.full0 -
exactly. i dont care to get involved really in a debate but when most paleo people say they eat as much as they want...thats what they mean. they eat until they are done. there is no urge to snack and overeat bcause you are getting actual nourishment from the natural foods you are eating. there is no need to measure because your body tells you when it is done
But isn't that pretty much how all "normal" people eat, whether they follow paleo or not? Not that any of us here are abnormal, just using "normal" as a generic term for people who eat and maintain a healthy weight without calorie counting.
I'm 100% certain I could maintain my current weight (as long as I keep up my current activity level) without logging. Even taking a month off from logging AND exercise while recovering from an injury, my weight stayed the same. At this stage of the game, I'm mostly logging out of curiosity. I'm astounded by the volume of food I'm able to eat, and have just upped my calories since I was losing weight without wanting or trying to lose weight. And I have at least 200g of carbs a day.
I think the purpose of sites like MFP should be to learn to eat to satiety and find the balance of calories, fat, carbs and protein that works best for each individual, so that eventually, they won't need to log their food in the future. Sadly, too many use it as a way to barely squeak by on a minimal amount of food to reach a goal as quickly as possible.0 -
heres some more studies for you:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract
http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/5/1102.full
The starter of this thread already knows saturated fat isn't all that bad. And he created this thread to incite Paleo dieters because he already knew there are no studies in existence (at least meaningful studies) that can really answer his initial questions.0 -
these links are pertinent because the poster is asking for studies that show the paleo diet is healthy or best or whatever. these studies are showing that the main components of the paleo diet are in fact, HEALTHY! that is why these have substance on this thread. sorry to upset you with scientific facts. also, carbs are not the enemy. carbs are a necessary part of a healthy diet. its where the carbs come from. if they come from sources that quickly spike your blood sugar, then high ammounts of insulin are released and thus fat is stored. what spikes your blood sugar??? starches and sugar!!!! so eat carbs and plenty of them from veggies and nuts and other sources that occur in nature! god you people just dont like facts do you??0
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another one for you, this one pretty much backs up everything said by the paleo people:
http://www.jacn.org/content/20/1/5.full0 -
these links are pertinent because the poster is asking for studies that show the paleo diet is healthy or best or whatever. these studies are showing that the main components of the paleo diet are in fact, HEALTHY! that is why these have substance on this thread. sorry to upset you with scientific facts. also, carbs are not the enemy. carbs are a necessary part of a healthy diet. its where the carbs come from. if they come from sources that quickly spike your blood sugar, then high ammounts of insulin are released and thus fat is stored. what spikes your blood sugar??? starches and sugar!!!! so eat carbs and plenty of them from veggies and nuts and other sources that occur in nature! god you people just dont like facts do you??
I'm not offended or disputing the benefits of a Paleo diet, I'm only saying that its futile to try to win this argument against the OP.0 -
these links are pertinent because the poster is asking for studies that show the paleo diet is healthy or best or whatever. these studies are showing that the main components of the paleo diet are in fact, HEALTHY! that is why these have substance on this thread. sorry to upset you with scientific facts. also, carbs are not the enemy. carbs are a necessary part of a healthy diet. its where the carbs come from. if they come from sources that quickly spike your blood sugar, then high ammounts of insulin are released and thus fat is stored. what spikes your blood sugar??? starches and sugar!!!! so eat carbs and plenty of them from veggies and nuts and other sources that occur in nature! god you people just dont like facts do you??
Actually starches aren't bad for us either if you have the activity level high enough to support eating said starch, such as a sweet potato.
Many of the body builders that belong to the same facebook group I belong to all have protein, fat and starch before workout and are gaining strength and other gains very quickly all the while leaning out rather quickly also.
I allow myself some basmati rice and a sweet potato a couple of times per month or if I have a heavy workout day.0 -
these links are pertinent because the poster is asking for studies that show the paleo diet is healthy or best or whatever. these studies are showing that the main components of the paleo diet are in fact, HEALTHY! that is why these have substance on this thread. sorry to upset you with scientific facts. also, carbs are not the enemy. carbs are a necessary part of a healthy diet. its where the carbs come from. if they come from sources that quickly spike your blood sugar, then high ammounts of insulin are released and thus fat is stored. what spikes your blood sugar??? starches and sugar!!!! so eat carbs and plenty of them from veggies and nuts and other sources that occur in nature! god you people just dont like facts do you??
I'm not offended or disputing the benefits of a Paleo diet, I'm only saying that its futile to try to win this argument against the OP.
Exactly. All the OP and a couple others that have participated in this thread is find ways to discount the studies when you post them, so I give up.
I see the success I am having as well as many others - mentally and physically.
I just don't see how anyone can rationally say that eating grass fed proteins and fat sources, vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds (maybe occasional dairy or starches) is a pretty ideal way of eating that every human being could benefit from.
They don't go bashing the vegans and vegetarians even though there is more evidence that removing meat from the human way of eating is detrimental to ones' health.0 -
I don't know if it matters, but I have been looking at the studies being posted to form my own opinion (and honestly I didn't know if there were or weren't studies validating Paleo). I'll admit that I got sidetracked with a debate that really wasn't related to the original question, but that question was something I was interested in. I do appreciate the studies that were posted as it's helping me make more educated decisions, so thank you.0
This discussion has been closed.
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