Let's talk about...the Paleo Diet
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The reality is most people are told they are overweight/obese because they are gluttonous and eat too much, so they never find out that they might have intolerance to gluten or to carbs in general. I suspect that as things progress, we will find more and more people are negatively affected by eating grains. Much more than some tiny insignificant percentage of the population.
So how about those of us that were never obese or overweight, and/or became a healthier weight while all the while eating those gluten or carbs? The largest I ever was, was about 10 pounds over a healthy weight for my height, and that was due to nothing more than eating more than I was burning.
I fully agree that those whose bodies don't process carbs or gluten properly should avoid them. But I see no reason to avoid them when my body does process them just fine.
Or in other words... everyone should eat what they do best eating. I'm a total snob when it comes to pet foods, and buy my gang high-end stuff. One might argue that they eat better than I do. But my Mom's cat would turn her little pink nose up at anything that was supposed to be "good for her, and lived 18 long, healthy, happy years eating the cheapest, no-name, grocery-store-brand "garbage" food there was.0 -
Ok, I'll just say this. People are asking the point of this thread. It's simple. There are several posters on this site who have a tendency of jumping into random, unrelated threads and proselytizing about how the paleo diet is superior to whatever diet the thread was discussing. This thread was created to ask about and discuss the real science behind these claims, not to bash it, or tell people to not eat it, or anything of that nature.
Basically people have been going around telling people to eat paleo because it's better. This thread was created to examine that and see if it's better, or the same. So far I haven't seen anything scientific to say its better than any other particular diet for the general population. I also haven't seen anyone in this thread tell anyone else not to eat Paleo if they prefer to eat that way.0 -
Ok, I'll just say this. People are asking the point of this thread. It's simple. There are several posters on this site who have a tendency of jumping into random, unrelated threads and proselytizing about how the paleo diet is superior to whatever diet the thread was discussing. This thread was created to ask about and discuss the real science behind these claims, not to bash it, or tell people to not eat it, or anything of that nature.
Basically people have been going around telling people to eat paleo because it's better. This thread was created to examine that and see if it's better, or the same. So far I haven't seen anything scientific to say its better than any other particular diet for the general population. I also haven't seen anyone in this thread tell anyone else not to eat Paleo if they prefer to eat that way.
Go to a real paleo diet site one day and see how superior they think they are. What happens here is nothing. So, they may suggest the paleo diet to some - big deal. I would suggest paleo if someone had really bad health issues.
There are some people who don't get diagnosed with coeliacs but still seem to find relief when they remove gluten or grains. Don't need science to tell you that you feel better when you remove gluten. Some may get over-zealous about it. I know I was over-zealous as hell when I started the low carb diet. Did it work for me - in the short-term, but couldn't keep it up. Those that keep up paleo do so because their health has changed for the better.0 -
Apologies for another anecdote, but bear with me…
A year ago, I was unemployed and sitting at home much of the time. My only exercise was either going down to the basement for another beer or stepping outside for a cigarette. I was overweight, depressed, and virtually sedentary. Finally, I got decided enough was enough and quit smoking, drastically reduced my alcohol consumption, restricted my calorie intake, and started working out. Consequently, I’ve also lost weight. I feel great, sleep better, and my general state of mind is vastly improved. Now I could attribute these changes to my vegetarian diet, but I haven’t eaten meat since 1997. That part hasn’t changed fundamentally. What has changed is my behavior.
The real danger, I think, in touting a particular dietary choice as the answer to health or weight loss is removal of personal responsibility from the equation. Thus you find people jumping from one “lifestyle” to another—be it Atkins, Paleo, vegetarianism, or what have you. In and of themselves, these specific diets are neither good nor bad, as long they are appropriately placed within the context of our actions.
And, yeah, I still eat Pop-tarts sometimes
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Apologies for another anecdote, but bear with me…
A year ago, I was unemployed and sitting at home much of the time. My only exercise was either going down to the basement for another beer or stepping outside for a cigarette. I was overweight, depressed, and virtually sedentary. Finally, I got decided enough was enough and quit smoking, drastically reduced my alcohol consumption, restricted my calorie intake, and started working out. Consequently, I’ve also lost weight. I feel great, sleep better, and my general state of mind is vastly improved. Now I could attribute these changes to my vegetarian diet, but I haven’t eaten meat since 1997. That part hasn’t changed fundamentally. What has changed is my behavior.
The real danger, I think, in touting a particular dietary choice as the answer to health or weight loss is removal of personal responsibility from the equation. Thus you find people jumping from one “lifestyle” to another—be it Atkins, Paleo, vegetarianism, or what have you. In and of themselves, these specific diets are neither good nor bad, as long they are appropriately placed within the context of our actions.
And, yeah, I still eat Pop-tarts sometimes
You can't attribute it to just your vegetarian diet as you - "quit smoking, drastically reduced my alcohol consumption, restricted my calorie intake, and started working out".0 -
Which was exactly her point . . . if you had read carefully.Now I could attribute these changes to my vegetarian diet, but I haven’t eaten meat since 1997. That part hasn’t changed fundamentally. What has changed is my behavior.0
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*bump*0
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The WHO seems to think obesity is a rising problem.
http://www.who.int/hpr/NPH/docs/gs_obesity.pdf
So if processed foods aren't a good diet, what diet beats the paleo diet of more natural whole foods?
Doesn't the Paleo diet cut out grains? Grains are natural. Doesn't it also cut out dairy? Isn't dairy natural?
When I say processed, I mean food that has an ingredient list so long that it takes twenty minutes just to read it.
Edited to Add: I will read your article later. Thank you for the link.
What grains can you eat that don't need to be processed to hell, except for rice?
And dairy is allowed on Paleo / Primal as long as your body is tolerant to dairy, so it is very individual.
Many people I know that eat Paleo and Primal eat white rice and some limited dairy.
And so processing = bad? So you don't use butter or oils at all?
I use coconut oil that has been cold pressed and Yes I use butter, but the Amish make it by hand. Cream and salt are the ingredients and they churn it by hand.
Not something you can really call a processed food. I don't use olive oil because I don't like it or olives.
So basically you will use processed foods, you just justify it by telling yourself they aren't processed?
How is churned butter a processed food?
It is cream and salt.
It does not come in a package, box and is not frozen.0 -
Yes you adhere to the food pyramid, the government really has your best interest at heart (cough) and have you noticed the more grains servings they have added to the food pyramid the fatter people get.
The grains that are eaten today are in no shape or form the same grains that were eaten a hundred years ago, let alone thousands of years ago.
Whole wheat flour, Rye, buckwheat and all other grains contain gluten, which causes me to have joint pain for days or sometimes weeks on end.
Technically all grains contain some level of gluten, some more so than others. I stay away from grains for many reasons and staying pain free is one of them. As I previously mentioned, I had a blueberry bagel as a courteous gesture from our instructor that brought them to class last week, I have been aching in my bones and joints ever since to the point of being in tears at times.
Millet and quinoa are seeds that I do not partake in.
The only seeds I do eat are sunflower and pumpkin seed.
And oats? They are gluten-free my friend. I know. I'm allergic to wheat, barley and intolerant to gluten. Last I checked oats are considered a grain.
Because gluten makes you sick doesn't mean it makes everyone sick. People who can eat grains and gluten have no reason NOT to eat grains and gluten really.
Gluten is found in all grains, but while the prolamins in rice and corn gluten are usually safe for celiac patients, the prolamins in wheat (called gliadin), barley (called hordein), and rye (called secalin) are not. In people with celiac disease, these protein molecules in wheat, barley and rye trigger an autoimmune response that results in damage to the small intestine, along with other related problems.0 -
Ah, so the issue is you just don't understand what the word "processed" means. Butchering a cow into steaks is processing food. Churning butter is processing food. You have to process the milk into cream, and then process the cream into butter. "Processing food" has nothing to do with chemicals, packaging, or freezing. If you don't physically grow it, churn it, pick it, kill it, and butcher it yourself, you are buying processed food.
The WHO seems to think obesity is a rising problem.
http://www.who.int/hpr/NPH/docs/gs_obesity.pdf
So if processed foods aren't a good diet, what diet beats the paleo diet of more natural whole foods?
Doesn't the Paleo diet cut out grains? Grains are natural. Doesn't it also cut out dairy? Isn't dairy natural? When I say processed, I mean food that has an ingredient list so long that it takes twenty minutes just to read it.
Edited to Add: I will read your article later. Thank you for the link.
What grains can you eat that don't need to be processed to hell, except for rice?
And dairy is allowed on Paleo / Primal as long as your body is tolerant to dairy, so it is very individual.
Many people I know that eat Paleo and Primal eat white rice and some limited dairy.
And so processing = bad? So you don't use butter or oils at all?
I use coconut oil that has been cold pressed and Yes I use butter, but the Amish make it by hand. Cream and salt are the ingredients and they churn it by hand.
Not something you can really call a processed food. I don't use olive oil because I don't like it or olives.
So basically you will use processed foods, you just justify it by telling yourself they aren't processed?
How is churned butter a processed food?
It is cream and salt.
It does not come in a package, box and is not frozen.0 -
Ah, so the issue is you just don't understand what the word "processed" means. Butchering a cow into steaks is processing food. Churning butter is processing food. You have to process the milk into cream, and then process the cream into butter. "Processing food" has nothing to do with chemicals, packaging, or freezing. If you don't physically grow it, churn it, pick it, kill it, and butcher it yourself, you are buying processed food.
The WHO seems to think obesity is a rising problem.
http://www.who.int/hpr/NPH/docs/gs_obesity.pdf
So if processed foods aren't a good diet, what diet beats the paleo diet of more natural whole foods?
Doesn't the Paleo diet cut out grains? Grains are natural. Doesn't it also cut out dairy? Isn't dairy natural? When I say processed, I mean food that has an ingredient list so long that it takes twenty minutes just to read it.
Edited to Add: I will read your article later. Thank you for the link.
What grains can you eat that don't need to be processed to hell, except for rice?
And dairy is allowed on Paleo / Primal as long as your body is tolerant to dairy, so it is very individual.
Many people I know that eat Paleo and Primal eat white rice and some limited dairy.
And so processing = bad? So you don't use butter or oils at all?
I use coconut oil that has been cold pressed and Yes I use butter, but the Amish make it by hand. Cream and salt are the ingredients and they churn it by hand.
Not something you can really call a processed food. I don't use olive oil because I don't like it or olives.
So basically you will use processed foods, you just justify it by telling yourself they aren't processed?
How is churned butter a processed food?
It is cream and salt.
It does not come in a package, box and is not frozen.
A processed food has been changed from its natural state in some way.
Therefore butter is not processed as it is still cream.
A steak is not processed when I buy it raw from the farmer, it has been merely cut.0 -
With respect to the whole "processed foods" issue, I think a lot of us might have varying definitions about what constitutes processed. I think some of us consider processed food to be something similar to what is called pink slime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime) and others are defining it as anything done to a food to make it "edible". I think there's a significant difference between processing beef in the sense of cutting, flavoring, and cooking it and in extracting the last remnants of meat from beef trimmings, spinning it in a centrifuge, and treating it with ammonium. It's like the difference between a beef stick and a steak.
Maybe I'm wrong?
Personally I miss the days when we used to just kill animals and eat them, or pick stuff from the garden and then eat it. Of course if we hadn't moved past that, we wouldn't have Twinkies!0 -
Which was exactly her point . . . if you had read carefully.Now I could attribute these changes to my vegetarian diet, but I haven’t eaten meat since 1997. That part hasn’t changed fundamentally. What has changed is my behavior.
Yeh, I know. I just spelt it out.0 -
With respect to the whole "processed foods" issue, I think a lot of us might have varying definitions about what constitutes processed. I think some of us consider processed food to be something similar to what is called pink slime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime) and others are defining it as anything done to a food to make it "edible". I think there's a significant difference between processing beef in the sense of cutting, flavoring, and cooking it and in extracting the last remnants of meat from beef trimmings, spinning it in a centrifuge, and treating it with ammonium. It's like the difference between a beef stick and a steak.
Maybe I'm wrong?
Personally I miss the days when we used to just kill animals and eat them, or pick stuff from the garden and then eat it. Of course if we hadn't moved past that, we wouldn't have Twinkies!
Cutting meat to make it into manageable pieces to buy and eat is "processing" but it is not a processed food unless it is canned and preserved.
The ignorance being said by others on this forum to make a moot point is really retarded.
The only processed foods I can say I eat is tomato sauce that I cook down and process myself and home made pickles.0 -
A processed food has been changed from its natural state in some way.
Therefore butter is not processed as it is still cream.
A steak is not processed when I buy it raw from the farmer, it has been merely cut.
I like how you change your definition so it fits your idea of what it is. So canned fruit in syrup is not processed as it is still fruit, correct?
And what state is cream in it's natural state, a liquid, correct?0 -
Cutting meat to make it into manageable pieces to buy and eat is "processing" but it is not a processed food unless it is canned and preserved.
The ignorance being said by others on this forum to make a moot point is really retarded.
The only processed foods I can say I eat is tomato sauce that I cook down and process myself and home made pickles.
Agree wholeheartedly. I think it's hard to have a well-measured discussion on the forums sometimes because we don't often stop to consider that we're coming from a different set of definitions. If we start from a different definition of what constitutes fact, then we're never going to get anywhere in a discussion because we're always gonna think the other person wrong no matter what fact is present. Until something is defined well enough to be understood by everybody, every point is open to be sidelined by these chuckle heads who throw out non sequiturs and red herrings.0 -
A processed food has been changed from its natural state in some way.
Therefore butter is not processed as it is still cream.
A steak is not processed when I buy it raw from the farmer, it has been merely cut.
I like how you change your definition so it fits your idea of what it is. So canned fruit in syrup is not processed as it is still fruit, correct?
And what state is cream in it's natural state, a liquid, correct?
No, canned fruit is definitely a processed food.
Cream is still cream (butter) no matter if it is liquid or solid.
A few examples of processed foods include:
Canned and frozen fruits and vegetables
Packaged foods labeled “natural” or “organic,”
such as cereals, fresh meat and poultry, and
jarred baby foods
Foods with health and nutrition claims on the
label, such as “may reduce risk of heart disease,”
“low in fat” or “high in calcium”
Foods fortified with nutrients such as fiber, vitamin D and omega-3 fatty acids
Foods prepared in quick-service and fine-dining restaurants, cafeterias and food courts, sports arenas,
coffee shops and other locations0 -
Ah, so the issue is you just don't understand what the word "processed" means. Butchering a cow into steaks is processing food. Churning butter is processing food. You have to process the milk into cream, and then process the cream into butter. "Processing food" has nothing to do with chemicals, packaging, or freezing. If you don't physically grow it, churn it, pick it, kill it, and butcher it yourself, you are buying processed food.
Ah, so the issue here is that you're playing the pedant when, in fact , you know damn well that in food manufacturing terms pretty much everyone knows (except pedants intent on scoring cheap points in a bad attempt to make themselves look superior) that the term 'processed foods' refers to foods that have been hugely changed from their natural state. Meat that has 'reformed', vegetables that have had every last gram of goodness sucked out before they're shoved in a can, milk that's been pasteurised, homogenised, had most of its fat content removed. Cereals and bread that have been artificially pumped full of bloody vitamins because their nutrient content is too piss poor otherwise.
Now shoo kitty....go play with a nice ball of wall or something and put your ickle biddie claws back in.0 -
"The ignorance being said by others on this forum to make a moot point is really retarded."
The ignorance is retarded? Anyone who uses the word retarded to describe someone or something is, well.....ignorant.0 -
The reality is most people are told they are overweight/obese because they are gluttonous and eat too much, so they never find out that they might have intolerance to gluten or to carbs in general. I suspect that as things progress, we will find more and more people are negatively affected by eating grains. Much more than some tiny insignificant percentage of the population.
So how about those of us that were never obese or overweight, and/or became a healthier weight while all the while eating those gluten or carbs? The largest I ever was, was about 10 pounds over a healthy weight for my height, and that was due to nothing more than eating more than I was burning.
I fully agree that those whose bodies don't process carbs or gluten properly should avoid them. But I see no reason to avoid them when my body does process them just fine.
Or in other words... everyone should eat what they do best eating. I'm a total snob when it comes to pet foods, and buy my gang high-end stuff. One might argue that they eat better than I do. But my Mom's cat would turn her little pink nose up at anything that was supposed to be "good for her, and lived 18 long, healthy, happy years eating the cheapest, no-name, grocery-store-brand "garbage" food there was.
If someone can eat as much gluten or carbs in general as they desire and not gain weight or have adverse health problems, then they have no reason to change their diet. But there are countless people, especially on this forum who struggle with weight and coincidentally eat alot of gluten / carbs. I think its odd that those people become fat so easily, but people who go paleo or low-carb eat as much as they want without restricting calories and lose weight. Seems like maybe the type of food you eat matters alot more than we think. Weight loss isn't really just about controlling calories, its ultimately about controlling appetite, because appetite controls eating habits.0
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