Views on America

antonio823

This subject could very well become an endless & heated debate...and I am pretty certain everyone has views that are both valid and invalid.

I love my country but the truth is we need to start focusin on ways to improve the quality of life for folks within the US before trying to fix things outside of it. I have often wondered why is it that someone could come here from a different country and live tremendously better than a person who has been here their entire life? Or why is it that folks within the US who have the money and power to help their neighbor would rather use it to go outside the country or even waste it away on something materialistic or meaningless. I'm not saying people should not be allowed to come to the US nor am I saying we should not help others but rather all citizens of the US should reap the benefit of living a comfortable and healthy life. Other countries are structured in a manner where people are afforded a decent education and healthcare, why can't Americans receive the same benefits? As a people we should also realize that some people are simply not cut out to spend years in school studying to obtain a degree because we have different levels of understanding or an individual may possess an apptitude that is quite different from another, it does not mean they aren't entitled to a decent job and wages. Sadly, I have known people who were doctors, lawyers, social workers, and other professionals from other countries who came to the US and were reduced to laborers simply because their credentials were not accepted. If we stop to think about the amount of money is paid out to people in certain careers and how much is thrown away on unnecessary things just because we allow our wants and greed to outweigh common sense and the responsibility to care for our fellow man its just plain right out sad and ridiculous. I've read comments regarding religion, well no matter what a person's religious belief is all religions teach tolerance, love, and mutual respect for one another and cleary that is not the case in a society where money, power, greed, and religion has a tendacy to overule common sense, decency, and respect for all...

As Forest Gump would say, "that's all I got to say about that."

Annette8479

I America

LizKurz

I live in the US. From the extremely blurry line between the separation of church and state to the unwillingness of the politicians to comprise. There is plenty to dislike and it can bog you down if you spend too much time thinking about it quite frankly.
Sometimes I can't help to think that America is on the decline. We live on our past achievements too much in this country and expect to always coast through on them while telling the rest of the world we are the best and that they aren't.
You know like when some dudes have a big ol' wang and it gives them overconfidence and they think they can do/have anything. Thats us and our military. We have the biggest and strongest so we can overreach and then tell ourselves, "It's ok, We are awesome! We are protecting and spreading democracy!" And then we find ourselves in some country forever (Hi people from those countries!) and slowly erode the gratitude from helping them out (if there was any to start with, Korea comes to mind) and start them hating us. Plenty of Americans think we shouldn't be rubbing our big ol' wang all over the place. Of course if they speak up theyre derided as unpatriotic or a commie.
I dont know why "socialism" is such a dirty word here. Police? Firemen? Public library? Dirty god d*mn socialism at work! And my favorite.. Keep your dirty goverment hands out of my medicare! (Medicare is a national social insurance for those 65 and older and disabled people). I'm pretty sure in our Declaration of Independence and Constitution that it is "LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". These are our unalienable rights, we came up with this and it has inspired many countries around the world to include it in their constitutions and declarations. I think its pretty kickass. I just wish we followed the first part and had healthcare for everyone. Life isn't a privelidge, its a right.
Democrats (the liberal in America) think that guns are bad. They're not. Some people are bad. Besides, we could never get rid of all the firearms in the states even if people wanted it. It just seems that this is the easy answer to solve crime when there are so many underlying reasons for why there is crime in the first place.
If only we stuck with the separation of church and state instead of just saying it while we winked our eye. The inclusion of religion into our politics is the biggest *%ck up. It should be left in your home and not dictate policy. With that being said, religion is great for some and not so much for others. The people who hate on religion are just as bad as the ones that push it. Sometimes worse it seems. Live and let live.
Republicans (the conservatives in America), creationism should be taught in schools? Really? Abstinence instead of birth control? Really? (What la la land are you living in where your kids arent banging in the back of your F150 while you are out on date night at Applebees?) Oh yeah, and please keep your hands out of every womans vagina. You're not wanted there. Your hands are cold. That we are still fighting over a woman's rights to control her reproduction is ridiculous.

Wow, I sound like im a liberal who hates America. I don't hate America and I think liberals and conservatives are both full of crap. America was great, can be great and is great in many ways still. We just need to lop off the bad stuff before it overwhelms us. I suppose I obviously lean more towards the "liberal" end of things. But call me crazy if I think healthcare and education should be provided to all. If we can maintain our huge military presence in the world and bomb some folks every few years we can find the money to pay for these two things.

Aside from agreeing with every word of this, I think you hit on something I haven't really been able to figure out until now.

You're right, if you dwell on the negatives too much, it will bog you down, and if more people did that, instead of trying to see the silver lining, things might actually change. We've been brought up and told that America is the greatest country on earth, and we're such speshul snoeflaks, but really, if we'd actually stop and get bogged down about the crap plaguing this country, I wouldn't wonder if we could right many of the wrongs.

macpatti

Honestly, I think anyone's spiritual questions/quests should be their own to explore.

How do children explore religion if there is no one to teach them? We have mathematicians to teach math, those certified/educated in science and English to teach those subjects. Why should religion be any different?

boomboom011

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

This!

rextcat

Can you ask for a doggy bag??? could my partner and I share a plate of food??? do they serve adults child portions?? and more importantly what is the best dinner I should order I am going to New Orleans and NYC????

GUMBO, and clams in new orleans,new york it depends on what part or nyc your in. most places have child portions you can order, and will usaly let you share you meal, and you can get a doggie bag anywhere, but buffets

LizKurz

Exactly religion and edution should stay FAR FAR a part.

WHAT???? How, exactly, will people learn about world religions if they're not educated on them? I'm not sure I understand this statement. Unless, what you're meaning to say is that religion should not be taught in public schools.

there is a difference between teaching religion, and teaching ABOUT religion... they were referring to the former

What is the difference? Not being snarky. Trying to understand what you're saying.

The difference would be a world religions class in which you learned about many religions, their differences, history, etc, and then using religion as an excuse to teach abstinence only sex Ed, or things like creationism in a science class.

doorki

Honestly, I think anyone's spiritual questions/quests should be their own to explore.

How do children explore religion if there is no one to teach them? We have mathematicians to teach math, those certified/educated in science and English to teach those subjects. Why should religion be any different?

Because mathematics and English do not contain moral right and wrongs that dictate how people should live their lives. Aren't parents the one's who should be teaching such a subjective topics as morality?

macpatti

The difference would be a world religions class in which you learned about many religions, their differences, history, etc, and then using religion as an excuse to teach abstinence only sex Ed, or things like creationism in a science class.

Well, I believe Catholicism should be taught in a Catholic school by a Catholic theologian. I don't see a problem with a World Religions class being taught at public schools, though.

boomboom011

Honestly, I think anyone's spiritual questions/quests should be their own to explore.

How do children explore religion if there is no one to teach them? We have mathematicians to teach math, those certified/educated in science and English to teach those subjects. Why should religion be any different?

Because mathematics and English do not contain moral right and wrongs that dictate how people should live their lives. Aren't parents the one's who should be teaching such a subjective topics as morality?

Hmmm interesting concept, parents teaching their children about morals.
:drinker:

BAMFMeredith

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

This!

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

macpatti

Because mathematics and English do not contain moral right and wrongs that dictate how people should live their lives. Aren't parents the one's who should be teaching such a subjective topics as morality?

SHOULD be, but that doesn't happen. I can teach some English, math, and science to my children at home, but I rely on teachers in those disciplines to do the "real" teaching. I'm open to public school offering a World Religions course. I'm guessing most homes aren't able to teach about other religions. Again, when we're talking specifically about morality or a certain religion and its teachings, that should be done at private schools.

macpatti

Hmmm interesting concept, parents teaching their children about morals. :drinker:

Wouldn't that be awesome, Boom? (remind me to tell you what happened to Katy last week).

boomboom011

Hmmm interesting concept, parents teaching their children about morals. :drinker:

Wouldn't that be awesome, Boom? (remind me to tell you what happened to Katy last week).

oh and then maybe parents will discipline their children again?

text me!

doorki

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

This!

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

How much was tuition when you and your mother graduated. I have a degree in Philosophy and Religion from a rather expensive school. Tuition pretty much tripled while I was there. I am paying it off and should have it done before I am 40. I have been able to leverage connections and name recognition to land a good job in finance, so that makes things easier.

cannonsky

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

I never said I wanted it to be your or the government's problem....I was just stating the fact about the job market

Marll

I get a little annoyed with how polarized we are over here.

Example I just got back from lunch and saw two bumper stickers:

"Don't blame me, I voted for the American"

and

"In 2012 vote American, not Socialist"

Indicating that if you aren't voting republican or have republican viewpoints, you aren't really an american.

And this is why I would love to leave. I'm embarrassed to call myself an American to anyone else in the world. And for those that offered assistance to those of us that wish to leave, I'll seriously take you up on it. Feel free to send me a pm with what you're willing to help out with. We have four kids and a mortgage. Though our house inst underwater, so buying out our mortgage wouldn't be a bad investment.

Seriously, you know what m bumper sticker says? "Obama/Biden 2012" that's it. I don't feel the need to tear anyone else down, just so i can support the moderate democrat up for reelection. As a socialist, I can tell you, he is not a socialist, and is too right winged on many issues for me. But, I know there is no other choice out there. For those that cant seem to get over the "me me me" mentality, I feel sorry for them, they're missing out on such joy in life. To me, the hive having health care is more important than my being able to own guns. The hive having equal rights regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation is more important to me than shoving my religion down everyone's throat.

When people stopped caring about the hive, in favor of more and more and more for them, and people are suffering with no food, no place to live and no access to affordable health care, this country turned south for the sh!tter.

When there are 18 million vacant foreclosed homes in this country, and only 3.5 million homeless people yet, we can't as a country come together to house them and get them back on their feet, yeah, it's kinda disgusting to me.

You sure talk about "The Hive" a lot. We are not bees, we are not all the same, we are individuals.

MaraDiaz

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

Again, missing the point. Education is great, the more people who have one the better. But not having an education does not make you disposable people, undeserving of a decent standard of living. Plenty of people work all their lives and have nothing, they can't retire, can't afford their medication, can't save money for their own children. Why? Because America is a country where if you aren't smart enough or rich enough, you apparently don't deserve to live and should be grateful to be allowed to exist at all.

This is wrong. It's a sickness in our society that this view is so accepted. There is also a blind spot in our society that allows educational opportunities to be an excuse for not having universal healthcare and a living wage even though there aren't enough good jobs to go around for the graduates that we do have.

grex1949

I live in America and I love it.

*I agree that our healthcare system is awful. Good care is provided IF you can afford it. Otherwise many people would be willing to let you die slowly of cancer. I am NOT kidding. The fact that we have insurance companies that are allowed to make a profit off of illness is just wrong. And when we try to make healthcare more available to ALL Americans the crazy right-wing screams.."socialism". I just don't get it.

* I believe Corpaorate profits reign over anything. It is okay to for Wall Street to outright steal from society. It is just plain and simple okay for them to do this. No one has gone to jail. They own government, they own our elections. In many aspects capitalism is NOT working. We are powerless against these big-monied interests. And it will get worse.

*it is sad many people in America are proud of their ignorance. Being well-read, or educated is seen as snobbish.

*the religious fanatics actively try to make an American Taliban. They would love it if there was a constitutional amendment declaring Christanity the ONLY religion in America. Yet at the same time they scream..."America is about freedom".

*Too many Americans don't want to pay taxes for anything but the military. No money for school, roads, healthcare, agencies. They believe everything should be privatized. And everything should be up for profit making. Crazy.

*Our public schools have slipped. Our teachers are belittled. We no longer care to put money into educating our populace. An uneducated America is an easier America to manipulate.

*Guns are rampant. The use of Methamphetmine is rampant. Scary combination.

*Workers are mistreated. And if you mention unions standing by workers....people say..."unions destroy jobs". That is NOT true but people believe it. Profits above ALL else, even if that means corporations move jobs overseas where people are desperate for work at $1.00/hr.

We are a good country. Filled with nice, friendly people. But we are easily lead astray to vote against our own interest. This is often done by appealing to our "America is the best" attitude. We have a lot of work to be done to take back our country to make it people centered. Not money and business centered.

Exactly correct, in my opinion. Healthcare should be a basic human right, not an unaffordable luxury.

cannonsky

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

This!

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

My minor is philosophy actually (major in humanities). It doesn't translate to a lucrative job but it is FAR from worthless. Again I'll say that I was not suggesting that it is somehow your problem that I have student loan debt. I was stating the observation that an education does not always guarantee success. At any rate... we have to face the fact that not everyone can be successful... No matter how great the education system is.. no matter how smart our children become... from a functionalist perspective.. someone has to be around to "do the dirty work". We can't be a nation with only a very rich upper class and a very poor lower class... there will always have to be a middle class

doorki

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

This!

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

My minor is philosophy actually (major in humanities). It doesn't translate to a lucrative job but it is FAR from worthless. Again I'll say that I was not suggesting that it is somehow your problem that I have student loan debt. I was stating the observation that an education does not always guarantee success. At any rate... we have to face the fact that not everyone can be successful... No matter how great the education system is.. no matter how smart our children become... from a functionalist perspective.. someone has to be around to "do the dirty work". We can't be a nation with only a very rich upper class and a very poor lower class... there will always have to be a middle class

Philosophy can translate into a lucrative career. It teaches one to look at a problem from all sides and then find a solution. It also teaches critical thought as opposed to just following procedures.

cannonsky

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

This!

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

My minor is philosophy actually (major in humanities). It doesn't translate to a lucrative job but it is FAR from worthless. Again I'll say that I was not suggesting that it is somehow your problem that I have student loan debt. I was stating the observation that an education does not always guarantee success. At any rate... we have to face the fact that not everyone can be successful... No matter how great the education system is.. no matter how smart our children become... from a functionalist perspective.. someone has to be around to "do the dirty work". We can't be a nation with only a very rich upper class and a very poor lower class... there will always have to be a middle class

Philosophy can translate into a lucrative career. It teaches one to look at a problem from all sides and then find a solution. It also teaches critical thought as opposed to just following procedures.

hence the FAR from worthless part

BAMFMeredith

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

This!

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

How much was tuition when you and your mother graduated. I have a degree in Philosophy and Religion from a rather expensive school. Tuition pretty much tripled while I was there. I am paying it off and should have it done before I am 40. I have been able to leverage connections and name recognition to land a good job in finance, so that makes things easier.

My mom got her master's from Johns Hopkins when I was 7. Wasn't cheap. But it's all relative, yes tuition is higher now, but so are salaries. I went to a private university, had to bust my *kitten* to get scholarships and grants so that my student loan debt is minimal.

poncho33

Haha, I love how people come to myfitnesspal with a common goal of getting/maintaining healthy habits and find a way to find uncommon ground... in a way this site is a lot like the USA, it started with the common dream for a better life and has now turned into my way or the highway.

doorki

Haha, I love how people come to myfitnesspal with a common goal of getting/maintaining healthy habits and find a way to find uncommon ground... in a way this site is a lot like the USA, it started with the common dream for a better life and has now turned into my way or the highway.

discussion and an exchange of ideas is not a my way or the highway, it is debate. It is what this nation was founded on.

cannonsky

Haha, I love how people come to myfitnesspal with a common goal of getting/maintaining healthy habits and find a way to find uncommon ground... in a way this site is a lot like the USA, it started with the common dream for a better life and has now turned into my way or the highway.

I know right.. maybe we're all just moody because we're hungry

boomboom011

Haha, I love how people come to myfitnesspal with a common goal of getting/maintaining healthy habits and find a way to find uncommon ground... in a way this site is a lot like the USA, it started with the common dream for a better life and has now turned into my way or the highway.

I know right.. maybe we're all just moody because we're hungry

bbq sounds good. but let me load my assault rifle first, go out and shoot the cow or pig (depending on which state you live) and THEN its on!

Marll

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

Again, missing the point. Education is great, the more people who have one the better. But not having an education does not make you disposable people, undeserving of a decent standard of living. Plenty of people work all their lives and have nothing, they can't retire, can't afford their medication, can't save money for their own children. Why? Because America is a country where if you aren't smart enough or rich enough, you apparently don't deserve to live and should be grateful to be allowed to exist at all.

This is wrong. It's a sickness in our society that this view is so accepted. There is also a blind spot in our society that allows educational opportunities to be an excuse for not having universal healthcare and a living wage even though there aren't enough good jobs to go around for the graduates that we do have.

I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong. There is no caste system here in the US as you paint it to be. Many millionaires and independently wealthy people come from nothing. America is the ONE PLACE that anyone can succeed. Nobody is actively barring you from becoming rich or famous. Nobody is stopping anyone from getting an education. And for those that can work their entire lives and have nothing to show for it...well that's life, sometimes that happens.

I see no place in America where people are barred by race, religion, sex, sexual preference, nor any other list of items from becoming wealthy, and if there are, guess what, you have the freedom to move to a different state and succeed there.

The ONLY people that we should be helping, protecting and caring for are those that are actually too disabled to work. The mentally handicapped, physically handicapped and children. Too many people in America are in it for "me" looking for a handout and don't work even though they are able bodied. The liberal system has ingrained this in them. Why work when you don't have to, we'll just take the money from someone else that is working so you don't have to.

I know people like this. I friend of mine's brother has been on welfare for years. He's still young, but hasn't worked since he was 18. There is nothing wrong with him. And somehow between his welfare checks and live in girlfriend he has more than I have after busting my hump for years in shcool, the military and pushing to get ahead in my career, and that's just not right.

macpatti

bbq sounds good. but let me load my assault rifle first, go out and shoot the cow or pig (depending on which state you live) and THEN its on!

You must live in Montana..........

Brieve29

. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

HAHAHAAHAH! What?! I could see perhaps if a foreign student wanted assistance how that migh be hard, but your average US citizen that has the wherewithall to actually go apply for a student loan is VERY likely to get one. The only time I've seen issues is when someone is still a dependent of their partents and their parents make TOO MUCH money. I put myself through college with the GI Bill and student loans. I applied and literally had 0 income and got the loans. It's not as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

It HAS however become more of a problem now that the government is the sole lender in the US and not multiple institutions.

It's not so much an issue of getting the student loans... it's paying them back at a time when a degree no longer guarantees a well paying job. Reports are coming out now showing that senior citizens still have student loan debt and that many are having trouble making those payments. I had NO problem getting money for school... I'm just screwed when I graduate this fall

AND? That should not be the problem of the people, nor the government to solve. Sorry you choose to study something that became worthless, but you made that decision. I sympathize though, I too went to school for electronics, got my degree and was met with no jobs in areas that I wanted to actually live. I then made an effort to change the direction of my career slightly and am now in IT.

I'll be paying for my student loans for years and years to come, but oh well, my problem not someone elses.

This!

I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.

My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.

How much was tuition when you and your mother graduated. I have a degree in Philosophy and Religion from a rather expensive school. Tuition pretty much tripled while I was there. I am paying it off and should have it done before I am 40. I have been able to leverage connections and name recognition to land a good job in finance, so that makes things easier.

I was fortunate enough that I had a mother that sacrificed things for herself in order for me to graduate from college without any student loans. I went to a university that costs a little over $40,000 (including room and board) every year. I worked my butt of in high school so that I would be able to get scholarships and grants to cover most of my tuition and my mom made up the difference. She is in no way wealthy and insanely good with her money. When I went to school I originally choose to get a BS in business. After researching and realizing I wouldn't to have any kind of job security with just a business degree I switched to accounting. I now work at a University as an accountant and can attest that there are no lack of student loans available to students. The amount of student loans taken out for small balances are staggering such as $30K for $1,500. Part of the problem now is we haven't taught the younger generations anything about saying no to the things they want and have constantly pushed fulfilling their want for instant gratification. I know so many people including friends that took out the student loans for frivolous things such as flat screen tvs or a new car while in college. Obviously not everyone does that but so many do. I would love to have a fancy new car but I know that I can't afford it right now and would rather pay off my house therefore I drive my 97 accord with 250K miles on it. But what kills me is when these kids graduate and they wonder why they can't pay off their student loans especially when the graduate with degree in English or History from a super expensive university. If you want to be a writer fine be a writer but also be realistic and know that you aren't going to graduate with a high paying job to pay off your loans.