Views on America

cannonsky

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy.

How about reading a book? I recommend "Globalization and it's Discontents" by Joseph Sitglitz

boomboom011

I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.

Indeed. A despicable practice.

Here is a very neutral description of the Dead Peasants Life Insurance Policy:

http://deadpeasantinsurance.com/

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Marll

I must not be making my point clear. You keep referring back to opportunities and especially educational ones. But janitorial work doesn't require a good education. Yet America requires janitors. All I want is for those janitors and everyone else who does unskilled labor to have a decent quality of life and to be valued as human beings despite either being unwilling or unable to aspire to higher education. Because we need them, how dare we look down on them and ignore their needs?


Our unskilled laborers don't need private jets and summer homes, but they should be well treated. Because to do otherwise is to use them as objects instead of valuing them as human beings.

That's all I'm arguing here.

Are you looking down on janitors? I'm not. They provide a valuable service. Sure they may not get paid as much as other folks, but that is a choice that they made that brought them here. There is a janitor where I work that is putting himself through an aerospace engineering program. He wants more than what he gets as a janitor. Others are content to stay where they are. Anyone that is doing unskilled labor can skrimp and save and invest like the rest of us. Is it harder when you make less money? Sure, but why should anyone else have to pay to artifically inflate the wages of others?

I've never treated anyone that I've run across in an unskilled profession poorly. I also know for a fact that many of them get paid more than you'd like to beleive for your argument. My wife went to school to be a veterinary technicain, more out of love of animals than money, but the janitor I work with makes easily $7/hr more than she does with a college degree...

ki4yxo

The bad, and the ugly.

http://www.necn.com/08/10/10/Mass-man-sues-over-health-insurance-law/landing_business.html?blockID=287568&feedID=4209

From JeepForum.


I only like you because you posted something from a Jeep forum.

It's not perfect here in MA but I'll take it. I'd rather not be bankrupt from medical bills.

That's why I carry a catastrophic plan. $75 is
a lot cheaper than $350 plus co-pays. There
has to be a plan "B" for me.

k8blujay2

I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.

Um... Except for the fact the Michael Moore tends to leave out facts and distort things to his own views... just like a lot of other politically driven pundits and documentaries... I have family and close friends that work in the medical field... and I would trust them over a man who demonizes the same economic system that makes him fat, rich, and happy.

Onesnap

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Take him out of the equation and watch the films. Then send me a PM once you've learned what goes on.

Dead Pheasants policies are real.

LizKurz

The difference would be a world religions class in which you learned about many religions, their differences, history, etc, and then using religion as an excuse to teach abstinence only sex Ed, or things like creationism in a science class.

Well, I believe Catholicism should be taught in a Catholic school by a Catholic theologian. I don't see a problem with a World Religions class being taught at public schools, though.

And as someone who sends their children to Catholic schoo, I agree. However, Catholics schools aren't paid for by the state or federal govt, they come from parish support, tuition and donations/endowment. And more than likely, you're only going to have Catholics there. It's in the public schools I refer to, where religion, (not a world religion class) should never enter the doors.

HauteP1nk

I don't want to get into the politics of the country.

I can tell you what I do like about America...the fact that I can go there and buy so many things for half the price of what they cost here, they have such a variety of people, the lands are beautiful, and a lot of my good friends and family are from there...they are good people!

Onesnap

I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.

Um... Except for the fact the Michael Moore tends to leave out facts and distort things to his own views... just like a lot of other politically driven pundits and documentaries... I have family and close friends that work in the medical field... and I would trust them over a man who demonizes the same economic system that makes him fat, rich, and happy.

Take him out of the equation and take a step back and think. The films are designed to make you think.

I had to watch Roger and Me in college. Great film about the Detroit auto industry.

It's halftime in America, MFP.

DataBased

Exactly religion and edution should stay FAR FAR a part.

WHAT???? How, exactly, will people learn about world religions if they're not educated on them? I'm not sure I understand this statement. Unless, what you're meaning to say is that religion should not be taught in public schools.

there is a difference between teaching religion, and teaching ABOUT religion... they were referring to the former

What is the difference? Not being snarky. Trying to understand what you're saying.

I believe that the difference is that one religion should not be taught as the "proper" religion. Honestly, I think anyone's spiritual questions/quests should be their own to explore.

I've never been to any public school in the US that taught any one religion is the "proper" religion. Quite the opposite, actually. It's easy to cast rocks from across the pond but do understand this.

I came from extremely humble beginnings. I'm the first in my family to attain a degree.

I worked in a good-paying field prior to earning that degree - for 30 years. Because I put my mind to it, I advanced.

I worked in so-called unskilled fields. I learned a lot about how to make myself a more valuable employee there. I have never been mistreated in a job in the US by a corporation or company, though some men in some of the construction jobs were more raucous than I was comfortable with. I learned to deal with them effectively - without sacrificing my comfort or principles.

I prefer paying for my education because it allows me to choose which school's dogma I listen to. When your education is "free" that isn't the case. I especially like the for-profit colleges because they're focused on customer service. They know I can take my business elsewhere, and I get more respect.

I went forward and got a graduate degree - to please myself. I'm not in a job that uses that degree... yet. But I'm paying for it because (a) I wanted to, (b) I could, and (c) I know how to work hard enough to get into a job that uses that degree.

This isn't a caste system here. I don't know what you experience, but we can rise above any hardship or station in life if we choose. It's called opportunity. That's what America is about. Nobody guarantees outcomes, but you are guaranteed the opportunity to excel and advance, if you're willing to work for it.

At the end of the day, what does any of this post have to do with losing weight or becoming fit? Are you just stirring the pot to see what rises to the top? If you don't care for the things you know about America's educational system, don't apply to any of our schools. It's pretty basic and no advanced training is necessary to understand that much.

Talk about preconceptions and unfounded opinions - good grief.

boomboom011

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Take him out of the equation and watch the films. Then send me a PM once you've learned what goes on.

Dead Pheasants policies are real.
[/quotd

does he have anything to do with the production or making of this?

Onesnap

I don't want to get into the politics of the country.

I can tell you what I do like about America...the fact that I can go there and buy so many things for half the price of what they cost here, they have such a variety of people, the lands are beautiful, and a lot of my good friends and family are from there...they are good people!

Thank you. My icon and my weight loss ticker are both beautiful things about this country (Massachusetts in winter and Maine in summer).

boomboom011

I don't want to get into the politics of the country.

I can tell you what I do like about America...the fact that I can go there and buy so many things for half the price of what they cost here, they have such a variety of people, the lands are beautiful, and a lot of my good friends and family are from there...they are good people!

and you are too!

BAMFMeredith

You and I see America in a very different way. What you do for a living does not define who you are as a person.

What you do for a living defines how much society values you, including your life. Statistically, the working poor die younger and have poorer health than the wealthy for a number of reasons. Many of those reasons are tied directly to income.

In agreement with you on all most all of your posts. Class affects every aspect of your life. Completely.

I don't think that's unique to the US. Pretty sure that kinda goes for anywhere you live...BUT in the US (and many other places) you have to opportunity to move up into a different class level if you are willing to put in the work and make the right moves. Sure, some have more opportunities than others do, and that's life, but if you REALLY want to be successful- you can be. It might take 10 years or 30 years. And you might never be "rich." But you have to strive for something better and work toward it if you ever want to be above average.

Onesnap

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Take him out of the equation and watch the films. Then send me a PM once you've learned what goes on.

Dead Pheasants policies are real.
[/quotd

does he have anything to do with the production or making of this?

He did not invent the Dead Pheasant policy, no. I'm pretty sure it was invented by...Walmart.

boomboom011

I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.

Um... Except for the fact the Michael Moore tends to leave out facts and distort things to his own views... just like a lot of other politically driven pundits and documentaries... I have family and close friends that work in the medical field... and I would trust them over a man who demonizes the same economic system that makes him fat, rich, and happy.

i agree.

Marll

I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.

Indeed. A despicable practice.

Here is a very neutral description of the Dead Peasants Life Insurance Policy:

http://deadpeasantinsurance.com/

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.

macpatti

What you do for a living defines how much society values you

Stop making sweeping generalizations about society.

Statistically, the working poor die younger and have poorer health than the wealthy for a number of reasons. Many of those reasons are tied directly to income.

To what do you contribute this fact? There are plenty of programs to help the poor in regards to their health. Do not blame this statistic on society.

k8blujay2

I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.

Um... Except for the fact the Michael Moore tends to leave out facts and distort things to his own views... just like a lot of other politically driven pundits and documentaries... I have family and close friends that work in the medical field... and I would trust them over a man who demonizes the same economic system that makes him fat, rich, and happy.

Take him out of the equation and take a step back and think. The films are designed to make you think.

I had to watch Roger and Me in college. Great film about the Detroit auto industry.

It's halftime in America, MFP.

Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"

katielauren2001

What you do for a living defines how much society values you

Stop making sweeping generalizations about society.

Statistically, the working poor die younger and have poorer health than the wealthy for a number of reasons. Many of those reasons are tied directly to income.

To what do you contribute this fact? There are plenty of programs to help the poor in regards to their health. Do not blame this statistic on society.

I'm sure those that study society would disagree with you. I study sociology and I know there is a lot of research to back up what she is saying.

boomboom011

I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.

Indeed. A despicable practice.

Here is a very neutral description of the Dead Peasants Life Insurance Policy:

http://deadpeasantinsurance.com/

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.

i knew something was bad about him. Thanks for reminding me!

Onesnap

Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.

step away from the filmmaker and do some real research.

Oh, and while we're at it...watch the study called "Are we Safer?" a really amazing look at the US post 9/11 and nothing to do with any filmmaker, thin, fat or otherwise.

This will shock the pants off you:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/

cannonsky

Talk about preconceptions and unfounded opinions - good grief.

Anytime someone says "good grief" I hear Charlie Brown

stevenc78

.....Constitution before you decide to put it under your foot (like terrorist Bill Ayers, Obama's friend, is pictured on Time magazine in a dirty alley standing on our flag), It's call good judgement, another thing that is lacking around here too.

Stretched truths and guilt by association don't help. We as Americans do this too much to try to make our points more valid. It only enflames the other side and then its a matter of trying to top one another. Then nothing continues to get done except drive the wedge further between us. I suggest using fact checking websites to weed through the partisan BS to make a more well informed decision. Its fine to disagree with someone but to demonize and believe things that are sketchy because we want to so we can further our own ideas and beliefs is wrong.

boomboom011

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Take him out of the equation and watch the films. Then send me a PM once you've learned what goes on.

Dead Pheasants policies are real.
[/quotd

does he have anything to do with the production or making of this?

He did not invent the Dead Pheasant policy, no. I'm pretty sure it was invented by...Walmart.

it was a legit question. thanks for being so condescending. bless your heart

MaraDiaz

You and I see America in a very different way. What you do for a living does not define who you are as a person.

What you do for a living defines how much society values you, including your life. Statistically, the working poor die younger and have poorer health than the wealthy for a number of reasons. Many of those reasons are tied directly to income.

In agreement with you on all most all of your posts. Class affects every aspect of your life. Completely.

The good news is you can pull yourself out of a particular class. Ask anyone who was the first in their family to go to College (my Mom). Or someone that worked 50 years, 6 days a week for a family business (my grandparents). The American dream exists in some families. I'm lucky to be part of a family that it's real for.

I agree, that is good news. However, that does not mean we have the right to ignore the plight of those who were unlucky in that aspect.

I don't actually believe you want people to be treated as disposable just because they are unlucky or simply don't have the mental capacity or personality to succeed on the level that you do. I do however wonder if you've ever thought your educational opportunity defense through to its logical conclusion, where every American has educational opportunity and takes advantage of it. Even if there were enough high paying, skilled jobs for them to fill, someone still has to do the unskilled work.

America tends to ignore the needs of unskilled workers. This is partly out of a culture of snobbishness (they are regularly portrayed as less able and intelligent, or as lazy, substance abusing criminals) and it is also because many don't realize how desperate their situations are.

Onesnap

Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"

Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.

Don't let any filmmaker influence you.

Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.

So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.

I could argue this all day long.

Onesnap

America tends to ignore the needs of unskilled workers. This is partly out of a culture of snobbishness (they are regularly portrayed as less able and intelligent, or as lazy, substance abusing criminals) and it is also because many don't realize how desperate their situations are.

Yep, and just as I continue to pay for 500 children of illegal immigrants to be educated in my town I also know that the US would grind to a halt without workers of all skill levels, income levels, and yes...illegals.

doorki

Exactly religion and edution should stay FAR FAR a part.

WHAT???? How, exactly, will people learn about world religions if they're not educated on them? I'm not sure I understand this statement. Unless, what you're meaning to say is that religion should not be taught in public schools.

there is a difference between teaching religion, and teaching ABOUT religion... they were referring to the former

What is the difference? Not being snarky. Trying to understand what you're saying.

I believe that the difference is that one religion should not be taught as the "proper" religion. Honestly, I think anyone's spiritual questions/quests should be their own to explore.

I've never been to any public school in the US that taught any one religion is the "proper" religion. Quite the opposite, actually. It's easy to cast rocks from across the pond but do understand this.

I came from extremely humble beginnings. I'm the first in my family to attain a degree.

I worked in a good-paying field prior to earning that degree - for 30 years. Because I put my mind to it, I advanced.

I worked in so-called unskilled fields. I learned a lot about how to make myself a more valuable employee there. I have never been mistreated in a job in the US by a corporation or company, though some men in some of the construction jobs were more raucous than I was comfortable with. I learned to deal with them effectively - without sacrificing my comfort or principles.

I prefer paying for my education because it allows me to choose which school's dogma I listen to. When your education is "free" that isn't the case. I especially like the for-profit colleges because they're focused on customer service. They know I can take my business elsewhere, and I get more respect.

I went forward and got a graduate degree - to please myself. I'm not in a job that uses that degree... yet. But I'm paying for it because (a) I wanted to, (b) I could, and (c) I know how to work hard enough to get into a job that uses that degree.

This isn't a caste system here. I don't know what you experience, but we can rise above any hardship or station in life if we choose. It's called opportunity. That's what America is about. Nobody guarantees outcomes, but you are guaranteed the opportunity to excel and advance, if you're willing to work for it.

At the end of the day, what does any of this post have to do with losing weight or becoming fit? Are you just stirring the pot to see what rises to the top? If you don't care for the things you know about America's educational system, don't apply to any of our schools. It's pretty basic and no advanced training is necessary to understand that much.

Talk about preconceptions and unfounded opinions - good grief.

uh.....I'm from the US. Went to multiple US schools. I believe the quote that you quoted was discussing education of religion and how while it is okay to teach about the world's religions that the actual teaching of what your family's belief of what is true should not be in the public schools.

I commend you on your hard work and success. While the US does not have a caste system, there is a class system. The difference being that there is little to no mobility in a caste system while there is mobility (all be it difficult) in a class system.

LizKurz

I get a little annoyed with how polarized we are over here.

Example I just got back from lunch and saw two bumper stickers:

"Don't blame me, I voted for the American"

and

"In 2012 vote American, not Socialist"

Indicating that if you aren't voting republican or have republican viewpoints, you aren't really an american.

And this is why I would love to leave. I'm embarrassed to call myself an American to anyone else in the world. And for those that offered assistance to those of us that wish to leave, I'll seriously take you up on it. Feel free to send me a pm with what you're willing to help out with. We have four kids and a mortgage. Though our house inst underwater, so buying out our mortgage wouldn't be a bad investment.

Seriously, you know what m bumper sticker says? "Obama/Biden 2012" that's it. I don't feel the need to tear anyone else down, just so i can support the moderate democrat up for reelection. As a socialist, I can tell you, he is not a socialist, and is too right winged on many issues for me. But, I know there is no other choice out there. For those that cant seem to get over the "me me me" mentality, I feel sorry for them, they're missing out on such joy in life. To me, the hive having health care is more important than my being able to own guns. The hive having equal rights regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation is more important to me than shoving my religion down everyone's throat.

When people stopped caring about the hive, in favor of more and more and more for them, and people are suffering with no food, no place to live and no access to affordable health care, this country turned south for the sh!tter.

When there are 18 million vacant foreclosed homes in this country, and only 3.5 million homeless people yet, we can't as a country come together to house them and get them back on their feet, yeah, it's kinda disgusting to me.

You sure talk about "The Hive" a lot. We are not bees, we are not all the same, we are individuals.

Yes, the hive. I of course was speaking of a hive of bees. My words had no metaphorical meaning at all

/sarcasm

It's mentality like that, forsaking everyone else so you and yours (the general you and yours) can have more and more and more that I can't get on board with. Until everyone in this country has access to food, healthcare, shelter and equal rights, I can't do anything but roll my eyes when people get on thier soapbox about how the Ebil Libruls are coming to take their guns.

And speaking again of guns....

I just got back from the store. For those of you that have complained about those on WIC and food stamps and are buying things you don't agree with, or have things you don't agree with, the man in front of me had two kids, and two shopping carts full. He used his food stamp card for the groceries, and cashed 2 WIC checks. He also had four boxes of .9 ammunition. My first though was ".christ almighty, I'm so glad my taxes go to make sure this man can have his guns" and then my second thought was, "well maybe he uses the guns to hunt for his meat."

It's really easy to get caught up in the "I don't agree with it, so it's wrong" mentality. But it's not my place to judge this man, I'm glad he can feed the two kids he had with him, and if my tax dollars help him, well that's even better. Even if he uses the ammo for fun, like target practice or something, I'm glad my tax dollars can be used to make sure another family is fed, and he deserves some fun too.