Views on America
Replies
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Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"
Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.
Don't let any filmmaker influence you.
Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.
So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.
I could argue this all day long.
Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.0 -
Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.
step away from the filmmaker and do some real research.
Oh, and while we're at it...watch the study called "Are we Safer?" a really amazing look at the US post 9/11 and nothing to do with any filmmaker, thin, fat or otherwise.
This will shock the pants off you:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/
I don't have to... I know we are not any more or less safe than we were 11 years ago... Even after 9/11 and all the terrorist plots between then and now, we are more likely to be hit by lightning... TWICE... in our lives than to be on an airplane used in a terrorist plot (including highjackings).0 -
A ring of crack-buyers (paying in food stamps) was busted up earlier this year. It happens.0
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Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"
Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.
Don't let any filmmaker influence you.
Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.
So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.
I could argue this all day long.
Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.
what? Americans can read? :drinker:0 -
Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.
step away from the filmmaker and do some real research.
Oh, and while we're at it...watch the study called "Are we Safer?" a really amazing look at the US post 9/11 and nothing to do with any filmmaker, thin, fat or otherwise.
This will shock the pants off you:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/
I don't have to... I know we are not any more or less safe than we were 11 years ago... Even after 9/11 and all the terrorist plots between then and now, we are more likely to be hit by lightning... TWICE... in our lives than to be on an airplane used in a terrorist plot (including highjackings).
Actually you do have to. I'm serious. It will show you things you had NO IDEA WERE EVEN GOING ON.0 -
Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"
Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.
Don't let any filmmaker influence you.
Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.
So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.
I could argue this all day long.
Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.
what? Americans can read? :drinker:
the one's that can afford a higher education.... BAZINGA!0 -
Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"
Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.
Don't let any filmmaker influence you.
Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.
So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.
I could argue this all day long.
Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.
what? Americans can read? :drinker:
the one's that can afford a higher education.... BAZINGA!
the elite I take it?
wait, i can read. im not rich. um i went to public school. STEREOTYPE DESTROYED!0 -
I think the education system over there needs to be a lot better and they need to increase the opportunities available for the lower classes; a university education is practically unreachable. If I were living in the US I would be screwed because I come from a very working class background and in a country as developed as America I don't think that's right. The overflowing prisons and gang culture speak for themselves in regards to the quality of the education system and what help there is (or lack of it.)
A university education is actually quite attainable, and rapidly becoming worthless. Grad school is what is difficult to obtain access to and funds for.
Also, even if every American had a graduate degree, there aren't enough jobs that require them. The real issue isn't educational opportunities, it's the treatment of workers in all jobs. Even unskilled workers deserve a decent standard of living, but because the minimum wage is not a living wage, because so many jobs have been outsourced, and because services for those in need are not readily available, most unskilled workers live very precarious lives. Providing for all instead of for an elite few is where our society fails.
I don't just mean university, I mean both higher and further education. It seems to be either you have a degree or nothing; there is no middle ground. We have ex-polytechnics and further educational colleges all over the UK and you get full funding over here so there's no money to pay whatsoever. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.
Not only that but in order to qualify for financial aid BOTH of your parents can't make a certain amount of money (I forget how much it is) regardless of your relationship with your parents, why is it that my parents are expected to pay for MY college education? and on top of that any realistic scholarship that I attemtpt to apply for I need to come from a latino or african american background. Are you kidding me? My father is a Veteran and makes just enough money to get by, my mother died when I was young, and every semester I am continuely denied for any sort of financial assistance. and the only way to get around this is if I am independent. You can't be independent unless your 25+ or married according to financial aid. So yeah I would have to say this system is messed up.0 -
wait all the non-americans have left this thread and now the americans are fighting amongst themselves.
STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no more!0 -
Not only that but in order to qualify for financial aid BOTH of your parents can't make a certain amount of money (I forget how much it is) regardless of your relationship with your parents, why is it that my parents are expected to pay for MY college education? and on top of that any realistic scholarship that I attemtpt to apply for I need to come from a latino or african american background. Are you kidding me? My father is a Veteran and makes just enough money to get by, my mother died when I was young, and every semester I am continuely denied for any sort of financial assistance. and the only way to get around this is if I am independent. You can't be independent unless your 25+ or married according to financial aid. So yeah I would have to say this system is messed up.
My parents did not pay for my education.
The tax dollars in my state did.
My Dad works for the state university in my state. I paid for grad school myself, our tax dollars paid for my undergrad.
How 'bout them apples?0 -
Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"
Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.
Don't let any filmmaker influence you.
Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.
So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.
I could argue this all day long.
Except I (and others) do... without listening to the opinion of a biased filmmaker... I don't need to watch a documentary to have my thoughts provoked or to be compelled to think critically... It's the same reason I don't watch Cable News of any stretch.0 -
Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"
Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.
Don't let any filmmaker influence you.
Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.
So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.
I could argue this all day long.
Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.
what? Americans can read? :drinker:
the one's that can afford a higher education.... BAZINGA!
the elite I take it?
wait, i can read. im not rich. um i went to public school. STEREOTYPE DESTROYED!
Imagine that... .someone that doesn't fit a stereotype . haha0 -
wait all the non-americans have left this thread and now the americans are fighting amongst themselves.
STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no more!
Time to escape to that beach town in Puerto Rico where all the ex-pats live and surf all day.
Wait a second.
How can they be called Ex-pats when Puerto Rico is a US Territory...............?0 -
I agree as well. I began my college career as a Musical Theatre major. MUSICAL THEATRE. Somebody, ANYBODY please tell me what kind of job you can get with that degree. Most of the friends I had that graduated with that degree are waiters, bartenders, or work in retail. No thanks, those are the jobs I had when I was IN college. I quickly changed my major to Marketing and Advertising, a degree that got me the great job I have now.
My mom worked her butt off to put herself not only through undergrad, but graduate school as well. She has ZERO student loan debt and nobody handed her the money for her education. She got scholarships and paid for both herself by getting jobs and grants and what not. It can be done, but I think the problem is that so many of us feel entitled to it that we're not willing to put in the hard work it takes to achieve our goals. I'm glad I busted my *kitten* to get scholarships and to get the job I have now. It makes me insane every time somebody tells me they're a philosophy major or something and then cry about how worthless their undergrad degree is.
Again, missing the point. Education is great, the more people who have one the better. But not having an education does not make you disposable people, undeserving of a decent standard of living. Plenty of people work all their lives and have nothing, they can't retire, can't afford their medication, can't save money for their own children. Why? Because America is a country where if you aren't smart enough or rich enough, you apparently don't deserve to live and should be grateful to be allowed to exist at all.
This is wrong. It's a sickness in our society that this view is so accepted. There is also a blind spot in our society that allows educational opportunities to be an excuse for not having universal healthcare and a living wage even though there aren't enough good jobs to go around for the graduates that we do have.
I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong. There is no caste system here in the US as you paint it to be. Many millionaires and independently wealthy people come from nothing. America is the ONE PLACE that anyone can succeed. Nobody is actively barring you from becoming rich or famous. Nobody is stopping anyone from getting an education. And for those that can work their entire lives and have nothing to show for it...well that's life, sometimes that happens.
I see no place in America where people are barred by race, religion, sex, sexual preference, nor any other list of items from becoming wealthy, and if there are, guess what, you have the freedom to move to a different state and succeed there.
The ONLY people that we should be helping, protecting and caring for are those that are actually too disabled to work. The mentally handicapped, physically handicapped and children. Too many people in America are in it for "me" looking for a handout and don't work even though they are able bodied. The liberal system has ingrained this in them. Why work when you don't have to, we'll just take the money from someone else that is working so you don't have to.
I know people like this. I friend of mine's brother has been on welfare for years. He's still young, but hasn't worked since he was 18. There is nothing wrong with him. And somehow between his welfare checks and live in girlfriend he has more than I have after busting my hump for years in shcool, the military and pushing to get ahead in my career, and that's just not right.
I just thought I would point out, one has to have quite a bit of privilege in this country to become a self made man. Period. So, yes, while there are many self made people in the top 400 wealthiest Americans, most if not all, were given quite a bit of things to get there. They went to public universities, perhaps even getting pell grants or stafford loans, they had the privilege of being able to go to school and not have to work three jobs like some of us.
Put quite frankly, From two self made men
Warren Buffett, founder of Berkshire Hathaway and the second-richest man in the world, says: "I personally think that society is responsible for a very significant percentage of what I've earned."
And Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google, says, "Lots of people who are smart and work hard and play by the rules don't have a fraction of what I have. I realize I don't have my wealth because I'm so brilliant."0 -
Exactly religion and edution should stay FAR FAR a part.WHAT???? How, exactly, will people learn about world religions if they're not educated on them? I'm not sure I understand this statement. Unless, what you're meaning to say is that religion should not be taught in public schools.
What is the difference? Not being snarky. Trying to understand what you're saying.there is a difference between teaching religion, and teaching ABOUT religion... they were referring to the former
I believe that the difference is that one religion should not be taught as the "proper" religion. Honestly, I think anyone's spiritual questions/quests should be their own to explore.
I went to a public school in Georgia (The Bible Belt) we were never taught which religion was the "proper" religion. We would discuss God once in a while, but I was never told that I had to believe in Jesus or I would burn in hell!! Never ever had anything like that in my public school. My husband grew up in Florida, again, never had those crazy Christian teachers shoving the "proper" religion down their students' throats. My sons went to a public school for a while (they are in private now), again, they were never told that Christianity was the "proper" religion....and we now live in Alabama!! I am aware that it makes for some juicy heated debates, but it just doesn't happen.
My DH went to FSU for his PhD, are any of you aware at what was pushed on him? Not Christianity. Most of his professors were atheists and Marxists, they openly told their classes. And they belittled their Christian students. That is intolerance.
I do not think that any religion should be endorsed by our public schools. But, to say Merry Christmas or Happy Easter, that should not be offensive just as saying Happy Halloween or Happy Thanksgiving is not offensive. I believe that the media loves to portray Christians as these freaky, back woods, bible thumping, black hating, gun toting, poorly educated freaks....just waiting to tell you about Jeeeesus!!! Most of my friends are conservative Christians. Super nice people and would do anything for you. They are moms and dads working their butts off to provide a good life for their families. They are not zealots or radicals...just normal people.
You do not need to be afraid of Christians or people that believe in God, we are normal people.0 -
It has become entirely too kindhearted in here for my liking. I live off of conflict, it is my foodstamps. Good morrow to you all.0
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America tends to ignore the needs of unskilled workers. This is partly out of a culture of snobbishness (they are regularly portrayed as less able and intelligent, or as lazy, substance abusing criminals) and it is also because many don't realize how desperate their situations are.
Yep, and just as I continue to pay for 500 children of illegal immigrants to be educated in my town I also know that the US would grind to a halt without workers of all skill levels, income levels, and yes...illegals.
Sadly, without legal status, they will continue to be cheated and abused by employers. I have known illegals who were not paid for the jobs they did, and I have yet to meet one that didn't work far more than 60 hours a week for absolutely terrible wages, mostly in construction and landscaping. They provide valuable labor, they deserve better. Even if they didn't provide valuable labor,as human beings, they deserve better.0 -
I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.
Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.
Um... Except for the fact the Michael Moore tends to leave out facts and distort things to his own views... just like a lot of other politically driven pundits and documentaries... I have family and close friends that work in the medical field... and I would trust them over a man who demonizes the same economic system that makes him fat, rich, and happy.
Take him out of the equation and take a step back and think. The films are designed to make you think.
I had to watch Roger and Me in college. Great film about the Detroit auto industry.
It's halftime in America, MFP.
Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"
No, that makes it hypocritical to say " forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it ". Michael Moore is a Capitalist parading as a Liberal. Which surprisingly, is very common for Liberals to do
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Except I (and others) do... without listening to the opinion of a biased filmmaker... I don't need to watch a documentary to have my thoughts provoked or to be compelled to think critically... It's the same reason I don't watch Cable News of any stretch.
Please don't compare a news broadcast to a documentary.
There were some mighty fine documentaries that really changed the way people think.
Food, Inc. anyone?
Forks over Knives?
Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead?
Just have a well rounded education on the topics you are passionate about.
Don't dismiss one film just because you don't like the filmmaker. Watch and read everything.0 -
Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.
step away from the filmmaker and do some real research.
Oh, and while we're at it...watch the study called "Are we Safer?" a really amazing look at the US post 9/11 and nothing to do with any filmmaker, thin, fat or otherwise.
This will shock the pants off you:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/
I don't have to... I know we are not any more or less safe than we were 11 years ago... Even after 9/11 and all the terrorist plots between then and now, we are more likely to be hit by lightning... TWICE... in our lives than to be on an airplane used in a terrorist plot (including highjackings).
Actually you do have to. I'm serious. It will show you things you had NO IDEA WERE EVEN GOING ON.
Nope, actually I don't... as a retired military brat I still have connections to people that know more about what's going on in this country than PBS does... and if they tell me to not worry, I'm not going to worry.... if they tell me to prepare, then I'm going to prepare... no questions asked. By the way, I don't know what you learned in school... but I learned to read between the lines.0 -
America tends to ignore the needs of unskilled workers. This is partly out of a culture of snobbishness (they are regularly portrayed as less able and intelligent, or as lazy, substance abusing criminals) and it is also because many don't realize how desperate their situations are.
Yep, and just as I continue to pay for 500 children of illegal immigrants to be educated in my town I also know that the US would grind to a halt without workers of all skill levels, income levels, and yes...illegals.
Sadly, without legal status, they will continue to be cheated and abused by employers. I have known illegals who were not paid for the jobs they did, and I have yet to meet one that didn't work far more than 60 hours a week for absolutely terrible wages, mostly in construction and landscaping. They provide valuable labor, they deserve better. Even if they didn't provide valuable labor,as human beings, they deserve better.
No comment on the 500 kids in my small town alone? 500? Anyone?0 -
It has become entirely too kindhearted in here for my liking. I live off of conflict, it is my foodstamps. Good morrow to you all.
Unacceptable... you come back here and argue like an American!0 -
wait all the non-americans have left this thread and now the americans are fighting amongst themselves.
STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no more!
Wait, isn't this what always goes on... Shoot if I believed everything I saw on TV, I would think we were in a Civil war (part Deux... or maybe that Dos down here in Tejas)... right now.0 -
Nope, actually I don't... as a retired military brat I still have connections to people that know more about what's going on in this country than PBS does... and if they tell me to not worry, I'm not going to worry.... if they tell me to prepare, then I'm going to prepare... no questions asked. By the way, I don't know what you learned in school... but I learned to read between the lines.
Please don't criticize my education. I also learned to read between the lines.0 -
Wow... just skimming the current pages there are so many misconceptions that I don't even know where to start... *sigh* and health care CAN be affordable if one learns how to navigate the system.
Exactly. People confuse halthcare with insurance.
Insurance is what I have incase I need to go to the
ER. Healtcare is what I receive when I give my DR
$60. ($100 for a full Physical) Healthcare is quite
affordable when you eliminate the middle man.
That, and our health savings account (pretaxed)
we do just fine.
Heck, I had to have out patient surgery done on
my face, and it was $400 cash. I paid $100 that
day, and $100 per month. In 3 months it was
paid off. (that included the biopsy)
The only people that come between and my
doctor, are the people they have working at
the front desk, and the RN.
And that's the way it should be. No insurance companies, no government involvement.
Anyone that's been in the military or worked for the US government can tell you that government mandated healthcare will be a total and complete flaming train wreck.
Absolutely untrue. We served, and the military was the best insurance we've ever had. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones that doesn't shell out $500 a month for insurance on just your children, not even yourself, when you only make $20k a year. But for lots of people, they have NO insurance, which means no healthcare.0 -
America tends to ignore the needs of unskilled workers. This is partly out of a culture of snobbishness (they are regularly portrayed as less able and intelligent, or as lazy, substance abusing criminals) and it is also because many don't realize how desperate their situations are.
Yep, and just as I continue to pay for 500 children of illegal immigrants to be educated in my town I also know that the US would grind to a halt without workers of all skill levels, income levels, and yes...illegals.
Sadly, without legal status, they will continue to be cheated and abused by employers. I have known illegals who were not paid for the jobs they did, and I have yet to meet one that didn't work far more than 60 hours a week for absolutely terrible wages, mostly in construction and landscaping. They provide valuable labor, they deserve better. Even if they didn't provide valuable labor,as human beings, they deserve better.
No comment on the 500 kids in my small town alone? 500? Anyone?
My ancestors came from Ireland mostly. Who am I to bash on immigrants or complain if their children need an education? Better than having 500 children who aren't getting an education in your community!0 -
Nope, actually I don't... as a retired military brat I still have connections to people that know more about what's going on in this country than PBS does... and if they tell me to not worry, I'm not going to worry.... if they tell me to prepare, then I'm going to prepare... no questions asked. By the way, I don't know what you learned in school... but I learned to read between the lines.
Please don't criticize my education. I also learned to read between the lines.
They just taught me how to read the lines.... What kind of fancy private school did you attend?
</sarcasm> 0 -
I just thought I would point out, one has to have quite a bit of privilege in this country to become a self made man. Period. So, yes, while there are many self made people in the top 400 wealthiest Americans, most if not all, were given quite a bit of things to get there. They went to public universities, perhaps even getting pell grants or stafford loans, they had the privilege of being able to go to school and not have to work three jobs like some of us.
Put quite frankly, From two self made men
Warren Buffett, founder of Berkshire Hathaway and the second-richest man in the world, says: "I personally think that society is responsible for a very significant percentage of what I've earned."
And Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google, says, "Lots of people who are smart and work hard and play by the rules don't have a fraction of what I have. I realize I don't have my wealth because I'm so brilliant."
Warren Buffet gets a lot of flak from others of his economic class for saying the things he does. His willingness to poke a hole in the meritocracy myth infuriates many who benefit from that myth.0 -
Since you study sociology, please provide me some stats on the causes. I'm interested.I'm sure those that study society would disagree with you. I study sociology and I know there is a lot of research to back up what she is saying.0 -
Exactly religion and edution should stay FAR FAR a part.WHAT???? How, exactly, will people learn about world religions if they're not educated on them? I'm not sure I understand this statement. Unless, what you're meaning to say is that religion should not be taught in public schools.
What is the difference? Not being snarky. Trying to understand what you're saying.there is a difference between teaching religion, and teaching ABOUT religion... they were referring to the former
I believe that the difference is that one religion should not be taught as the "proper" religion. Honestly, I think anyone's spiritual questions/quests should be their own to explore.
I went to a public school in Georgia (The Bible Belt) we were never taught which religion was the "proper" religion. We would discuss God once in a while, but I was never told that I had to believe in Jesus or I would burn in hell!! Never ever had anything like that in my public school. My husband grew up in Florida, again, never had those crazy Christian teachers shoving the "proper" religion down their students' throats. My sons went to a public school for a while (they are in private now), again, they were never told that Christianity was the "proper" religion....and we now live in Alabama!! I am aware that it makes for some juicy heated debates, but it just doesn't happen.
My DH went to FSU for his PhD, are any of you aware at what was pushed on him? Not Christianity. Most of his professors were atheists and Marxists, they openly told their classes. And they belittled their Christian students. That is intolerance.
I do not think that any religion should be endorsed by our public schools. But, to say Merry Christmas or Happy Easter, that should not be offensive just as saying Happy Halloween or Happy Thanksgiving is not offensive. I believe that the media loves to portray Christians as these freaky, back woods, bible thumping, black hating, gun toting, poorly educated freaks....just waiting to tell you about Jeeeesus!!! Most of my friends are conservative Christians. Super nice people and would do anything for you. They are moms and dads working their butts off to provide a good life for their families. They are not zealots or radicals...just normal people.
You do not need to be afraid of Christians or people that believe in God, we are normal people.
You get this problem on both sides.. there's really no winning until because become more rational. There are people are thing christians are crazy.. yes... but there are also people that probably think my sole purpose of an atheist is to bring the downfall of organized religion. It's just a shame that there are extremes on both sides that ruin everything .0
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