Does this constitute cheating to you?
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Sorry this isn't weight loss related but I am in a bit of a mess and don't really want to speak to my real life friends about this at the moment.
Last night I found out that my fiance (what a joke!!!!!!) has been visiting an adult site and paying women to do web cam 'stuff' for him.
I made him log on the site and I could see that he'd emailed a couple but I could see from his 'transactions' he had done a lot of web cam viewing (mostly all paid for).
He'd also searched on there for women in our area - most of these people are escorts too but he swears on his life he has 'only' done web camming (him watching them) and nothing more.
I don't have a huge problem with porn but somehow when you are paying someone to do stuff specifically for you it seems worse? (worse than watching a film or whatever) I also don't have a problem with strip clubs as I think they are mainly about a group of lads having a laugh but this has been happening in my own home, late at night and when I'm not there.
I've been on his Facebook and checked his messages and he isn't messaging real life women. He is very upset - but that's because he's been caught.
What would you do???
I was in almost the same exact situation. I have never been one to care if my guy is watching porn, but my husband started to pay for it and wasn't being with me. I had never had a trust issue before and I was never the kind of girl who snoops through e-mails and facebook etc etc. But I found that something like $20 was taken out of our account (I do the bills and at that time we were going through a financial problem so I was monitoring every single dollar) I asked him about it. He lied saying someone stole his card (which he went on to cancel in front of me so I wouldn't worry about it). That was it. I was like oh okay. So he asked me to check his email for a confirmation letter and I found one email that said "Thank You for you purchase" exact amount and everything. It was really hard to get over that. After a while of contemplating divorce we worked through it, it was hard work and trust that I gave him freely had to be built back up. I was paranoid then, demanding the passwords to his accounts and e-mails.He gave them to me, but I never used them, still couldn't bring myself to just snoop like that. We are doing good now.
I don't know for sure if it should be considered cheating, but it destroyed my trust just as if he had gone out and cheated.0 -
I really don't see what people get out of web cams. I would rather the real deal.
Anyway... Bill Clinton redefined what constitutes cheating. As long as you stick with oral and cigars you are in the clear!0 -
My rule of thumb is, if you have to hide it from your spouse then you shouldn't be doing it.
If I caught my husband watching porn, I wouldn't care.
But if I caught him paying for a live webcam show, I'd kill him.
This is pretty much my feeling on it. If I were your friend, I would worry about what he'll be doing in the future. (I have a friend who's son-in-law just got canned from a nice, cushy job for watching porn on his work computer. Needless to say their world has been rocked.) Personally, I would advise back out of this now. But it's going to be entirely up to you - whether you can get over it, and actually trust him. You're going to have to ask yourself some hard questions. Sorry for you, girl. That sucks.0 -
Im one of the few men on here that would tell you it's time to move on without this man.
Pornography is a parasite. It steals emotions and connections away from your spouse, whether fully intended or not. Certainly not in all cases...but obviously in his case, he has separated himself from you and put his focus on other things...and you aren't even married yet.
I'll make myself very clear: If he's getting away with this type behavior now and you're not married, why on earth would he quit doing these things when you are married?
Another thing: it sounds like you aren't happy. So why marry the guy and continue to be unhappy?
Crazy!
Im happy to know there are a few good ol boys around. People may think I am niave but I know that my boyfriend does not view/watch porn or go to strip clubs....and yes I now this as we are always together by both of our choices. It doesnt mean he is weird or different...just respectful of me as I am of him and that is the way people should be in a relationship. A couple of the guys responses on here are just plain wrong saying all guys do this and classifying them all to be the same. Not true. I dont care for the response that says sometimes you want a good steak and come home to the hamburger....ok so that is great to make your significant other a hamburger and a stripper/porn star the steak....should be the other way around.
So yes, if it is deceitful and something you are not comfortable with then it is cheating. Just like going out to dinner with another man/woman if your spouse doesnt know about it is cheating. Its all leding up to something!
Well said!
My fiance and I watch porn and go to strip clubs together because it's exciting for us TOGETHER! He doesn't venture out to the clubs without me. It's something we've incorporated into our lives on occasion because it's fun, exciting, sexy and revs up an evening out together. But we do it TOGETHER. That's important....0 -
RUN!!!0
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While the suggestions to "do the things for him he is paying for" might be well-intended, it puts the responsibility back on the OP, as if she is the one somehow lacking in their relationship. If there are things he wants to see/watch, he should be communicating that to her, NOT sneaking behind her back and asking for it from other women until he gets busted doing it. Telling her that performing for him will help fix the problem is just putting a tiny bandage on a big, gaping wound.
This. If he is doing it because he's got bored with their sex life and isn't telling her, he's the one with serious communication issues that have no place in a serious relationship. The fault is not with her, whether she's willing to be kinkier in the bedroom or not. People in adult relationships TALK about the issues they're facing.0 -
Communicate, communicate, communicate. Maintaining a happy marriage is a series of challenges. This sounds like your first challenge.
Maybe 15-20% of commenters are giving good advice: talk to the guy.
You liked him enough to accept his marriage proposal, so talk in depth for as long as it takes, or ask him to get counseling with you, to find a) his motivation for consuming this stuff and b) your reason for objecting to it. Explore the problem, the boundaries, the needs.
This is, of course, assuming there aren't things you're already uncomfortable with -- does he normally have poor impulse control? Has he been untrustworthy in other ways? If you had kids with him, would he fail them? If your finances were commingled would he rip you off to give money to camwhores? If you have a gut feeling that this is a bridge too far, you might be right.
Finally, though, I'm married, and I have never nor will I ever cheat on my wife. Out of curiosity, I've looked up local escorts. I've sure looked at porn aplenty, and some of it has been some strange, graphic, gross, esoteric, weird stuff. I've looked up a lot of things on the internet! I've stumbled on things that have made me sick they're so weird. Doesn't mean *I* want to blow a horse though, you know?0 -
I'm actually getting highly and mildly irritated with the responses that sound like this is her fault and hers and hers alone to fix for her fiance......She said she had a high sex drive...If he didn't feel comfortable talking to her about his fantasies well then that's his own darn fault. It is not her fault that she didn't "make him feel more comfortable". I am so sick of men using women as the excuse for their own insecurities and problems. I am sorry but that is the oldest excuse in the book hey your accusing me of something so let me make it about you so you will take your focus off of me and what I DID WRONG......
At the end of the day it's his problem and issue....not hers.....I am been through this with my own husband with his sexual wants being something he thought i would be too innocent to try....And like I said at the end of the day it's their problem for keeping their mouth shut... Closed mouths dont get fed...And lets not even go there about ummm what is he doing for her to spice things up...She isn't getting sex from him and she is still there for him.... How many men could say the same if their girl wasn't giving it up..???
Rant over I am sorry but some of you men shouldn't be giving such crappy advice.0 -
That's the other thing I probably should have mentioned... he really isn't that interested in having much sex with me and my sex drive is much higher than his!
Not ideal........
I had this issue awhile back with my husband and I can pinpoint it. We had just moved, and we hadn't done anything in like 2 weeks. The next day I found a strange charge on his credit card statement (I paid all the bills) he tried to lie and say it was something else so I called the number and viola..exactly what i thought. Porn.
I don't have a problem with Porn either, but the fact that he was substituting a sexual relationship with me with porn was a problem. He was extremely upset as well, but because he was caught. He was even mad at me, saying I invaded his privacy.
I agree with others, communication is the key. My advice, if you have trouble articulating exactly what you need to say to your fiance to make him understand how you feel without mixing up the reasons or having it come out wrong, write it down first. Sounds dumb, but it really helps.
Good luck girl...0 -
big picture warning sign:
you are more interested in sex (higher sex drive) than him and he is doing anything sexual away from you.
the rest is just details about what is so wrong with it.0 -
I'd be more upset with his poor fiscal decisions. That is a lot of money just to watch something over a crappy webcam.
This occurred to me as well.
Also, very early on someone said if the SO didn't feel like he could do it in front of her, than it wasn't okay. I agree wholeheartedly with that. My boyfriend can look at porn or go to the strip club (he never has - yet) and that would be okay. I'd only be mad if he thought he had to hide it from me. He knows that because we're really open about stuff with one another.
Hiding it makes it a betrayal of trust and honestly, if he was languishing in the sex department (I also have a high drive) and I found out about something like this, it would be over because even if nothing was going on, I would be suspicious and there's no room for that in our relationship.0 -
And also, I'm kind of confused by him having the option of real life you or crappy web cam feed and picking the latter. I mean, watching sexy stuff is sexy, but not nearly as sexy as sex.0
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As a owner of a adult site, in my opinion, it is just entertaiment! He might have a fetish if some sort. I dont consider this cheating. He married you for a reason, im sure he loves you, but these are the types of things men are in to. Being married you have to choose your battles. Comminicate to him how you feel and set boundaries. If you are open with each other maybe he'd be more open to doing some new and adventurous things with you. Now if he steps outside of the relationship, then that is a huge problem. But cross that path if you ever get there. Good luck with everything:)0
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I'm actually getting highly and mildly irritated with the responses that sound like this is her fault and hers and hers alone to fix for her fiance......She said she had a high sex drive...If he didn't feel comfortable talking to her about his fantasies well then that's his own darn fault. It is not her fault that she didn't "make him feel more comfortable". I am so sick of men using women as the excuse for their own insecurities and problems. I am sorry but that is the oldest excuse in the book hey your accusing me of something so let me make it about you so you will take your focus off of me and what I DID WRONG......
At the end of the day it's his problem and issue....not hers.....I am been through this with my own husband with his sexual wants being something he thought i would be too innocent to try....And like I said at the end of the day it's their problem for keeping their mouth shut... Closed mouths dont get fed...And lets not even go there about ummm what is he doing for her to spice things up...She isn't getting sex from him and she is still there for him.... How many men could say the same if their girl wasn't giving it up..???
Amen Sister!!! I love your response. You are 100% right. Many people want to blame others for the way they are and the choices they make. Almost like the you shouldnt have pissed me off and I wouldnt have hit you bull crap!.
Rant over I am sorry but some of you men shouldn't be giving such crappy advice.0 -
I'm actually getting highly and mildly irritated with the responses that sound like this is her fault and hers and hers alone to fix for her fiance......She said she had a high sex drive...If he didn't feel comfortable talking to her about his fantasies well then that's his own darn fault. It is not her fault that she didn't "make him feel more comfortable". I am so sick of men using women as the excuse for their own insecurities and problems. I am sorry but that is the oldest excuse in the book hey your accusing me of something so let me make it about you so you will take your focus off of me and what I DID WRONG......
At the end of the day it's his problem and issue....not hers.....I am been through this with my own husband with his sexual wants being something he thought i would be too innocent to try....And like I said at the end of the day it's their problem for keeping their mouth shut... Closed mouths dont get fed...And lets not even go there about ummm what is he doing for her to spice things up...She isn't getting sex from him and she is still there for him.... How many men could say the same if their girl wasn't giving it up..???
Amen Sister!!! I love your response. You are 100% right. Many people want to blame others for the way they are and the choices they make. Almost like the you shouldnt have pissed me off and I wouldnt have hit you bull crap!.
Rant over I am sorry but some of you men shouldn't be giving such crappy advice.
oops. i posted in the middle of your post..
Amen Sister!!! I love your response. You are 100% right. Many people want to blame others for the way they are and the choices they make. Almost like the you shouldnt have pissed me off and I wouldnt have hit you bull crap!.0 -
No. Cheating is oral copulation or vaginal penetration. He was just checking out living porn. Everyone has something they keep either a secret or don't disclose to their significant other, people dont just want to admit it. You BETKNOT listen to these old maids on this thread and give up your man. See if you can set up a web cam and perform tricks for instead of some random tricks performing tricks for him.
So she should cheapen herself and lower her standards to get down to this jerk's level? Great advice.
There is not a darned thing that I keep from my fiance or vice versa. If you are in a relationship with someone, and can't come completely clean about your likes and interests especially in bed, then you are with the wrong person. There are different levels of cheating based on each persons views. So if oral copulation or vaginal penetration are the only forms of cheating, then in your eyes if someone were rubbing your SO on the outside of their shirt or pants getting all steamy with some dry humping (yes I said it) then that's not cheating to you? Bet not listen to us old maids? Seriously? Why should she have to settle for someone who seems like would rather watch a webcam then have sex with her?0 -
As a owner of a adult site, in my opinion, it is just entertaiment! He might have a fetish if some sort. I dont consider this cheating. He married you for a reason, im sure he loves you, but these are the types of things men are in to. Being married you have to choose your battles. Comminicate to him how you feel and set boundaries. If you are open with each other maybe he'd be more open to doing some new and adventurous things with you. Now if he steps outside of the relationship, then that is a huge problem. But cross that path if you ever get there. Good luck with everything:)
No. No, no. ... no. They are not married yet.0 -
No. Cheating is oral copulation or vaginal penetration. He was just checking out living porn. Everyone has something they keep either a secret or don't disclose to their significant other, people dont just want to admit it. You BETKNOT listen to these old maids on this thread and give up your man. See if you can set up a web cam and perform tricks for instead of some random tricks performing tricks for him.
Cheating is beyond physical. The worst type of cheating is emotional--have a more than friendly bond, (heavy sexual) flirting in text/email, etc form with someone else while in a monogamous relationship. I'd like to state that I don't care if a man looks-but no touching! I don't even care if a man has female friends-the type he views as sisters/cousins, which I learned does exist, ha ha. Also, most couples-the ones that last- don't keep important information from each other. A strong couple is open with each other. A lie by omission is still a lie.0 -
Wow, he blows. Sorry.
Yes it's cheating. Yes he would still be doing it if you hadn't busted him. Yes he probably has another anonymous facebook or other account out there. Yes he would have meet up with the local women eventually, if he hasn't already. If I'm shopping for lingerie online or window shopping in real life, I'm planning to wear it.
It's not a porn video so that doesn't compare or justify. He paid a woman to do sexual things specifically for him. Honestly he should have just paid a prostitute and enjoyed himself fully if he was going to be stupid enough to get caught.
That said, only you know what type of relationship you want, and what you level of respect you deserve, and what are willing to put up/deal with in a man. :ohwell:0 -
No. Cheating is oral copulation or vaginal penetration. He was just checking out living porn. Everyone has something they keep either a secret or don't disclose to their significant other, people dont just want to admit it. You BETKNOT listen to these old maids on this thread and give up your man. See if you can set up a web cam and perform tricks for instead of some random tricks performing tricks for him.
Yes, lower yourself. Awesome advice. :noway:0 -
Onto what?
Yes, lower yourself. Awesome advice. :noway:See if you can set up a web cam and perform tricks for instead of some random tricks performing tricks for him.0 -
So you mean to tell me it's still cheating if I'm in a different zip code?
*gasp* Does that mean Vegas is off-limits too!?!?!?!?!?!?
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At the moment - he's just watching porn. Just cos he's asking someone to do something doesn't mean anything else - however, if he's looking in your area sounds a bit dodgy to me.
Totally agree!0 -
Of course men would never think of it as cheating. Most men use this as an excuse *I am coming home to you arent I?* If he is looking in your area, its either heading there or he is there. Honestly blunt out, Hes cheating, its a sign. He dolls up his lies with the stupidest things *I'm only watching* but no, I shouldnt make assumptions, did enough of my own research to know what is what. ANd guys, please you all stick up for each other, its another brother.0
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As a owner of a adult site, in my opinion, it is just entertaiment! He might have a fetish if some sort. I dont consider this cheating. He married you for a reason, im sure he loves you, but these are the types of things men are in to. Being married you have to choose your battles. Comminicate to him how you feel and set boundaries. If you are open with each other maybe he'd be more open to doing some new and adventurous things with you. Now if he steps outside of the relationship, then that is a huge problem. But cross that path if you ever get there. Good luck with everything:)
No. No, no. ... no. They are not married yet.
To the upper quote, what hes doing might make her not want to do them. It will shut her out, just like he shut her outof his fantasies to view others. I am in that situation now. He shut me out, which pushed me into not wanting him to touch me at all or do anything with, so F..ck him. I cant wait to get me back, BYE SUCKA!!!!0 -
Of course men would never think of it as cheating. Most men use this as an excuse *I am coming home to you arent I?* If he is looking in your area, its either heading there or he is there. Honestly blunt out, Hes cheating, its a sign. He dolls up his lies with the stupidest things *I'm only watching* but no, I shouldnt make assumptions, did enough of my own research to know what is what. ANd guys, please you all stick up for each other, its another brother.
Some men would think of this as cheating- also as betrayal. Even so, the most important part to all this is communication is key-especially from the beginning. If you and your partner don't know what you each expect, what you each think (as cheating, betrayal, lying...) then how is the relationship going to work?0 -
Honestly, I wish the OP good luck. People are complicated therefore the answer is complicated. Being that you aren't married, you have time to figure out the reasons behind his behavior. There are many things that would effect my opinion on the matter, not so much as cheating, but as a betrayal of trust. Is this his first time? Curiosity is a major motivator. Does he have a fetish? Many people hide those things, definite possibility. Does he have a porn addiction? I hesitate to say addiction, but for lack of a better word. Beyond these questions, I'd want to know, why is he turning you away. He loves you, he wants to marry you, then why?
One bit of advice I can offer, when you sit down to talk, let him talk. Silence is a great technique to use when trying to illicit information. People naturally want to fill silence with chatter, let him fill it and see what it reveals.0 -
I only checked his Facebook in response to this happening. I stumbled across the porn thing.
I didn;t have trust issues. I do now.
the wedding is 11 months away (supposedly) and he has had as many ideas for it and has planned it as much (if not more) than I have. I am not a crazy - weddings / bridezilla type so there is no pressure there.
Ummm... ok.
I have a hard time believing any woman (not just you) that claims she "stumbled" across anything like this. I just think this is a huge flashing neon warning sign for you. Open your eyes girl. .... Please don't tell us that you hope he will change post marriage?!?!
I stumbled across many things my ex-husband was hiding from me. I'm a neat freak, when I clean I clean everything.....even the space behind the pedestal sink in the downstairs bathroom. So yes, it can happen.0 -
Its a betrayal of trust, no matter how it gets dressed up.
Its also a step in the wrong direction and who knows where that road leads.
The positive is that its all come out early and maybe the problems that made him go this way can be sorted out.
Communication is key.
Its up to you if you can, will and want to forgive.
The best things in life are worth fighting for.
This is probably the best relationship advice I've ever seen given on the internet.
You win my friend...seriously.0 -
Quite a few men are into porn and blame it on outside factors such as over sexualization and their significant others. Often most men don't think of it as an issue. Although in my opinion he isn't factually cheating on you, it is in a sense a betrayal. By that I mean a betrayal of intimacy. Honestly I can tell you, I was once just like your fiance'
I would venture to guess if YOU were looking at men over webcam or performing acts over webcam for men he'd be upset in some way shape or form.
Realize his actions are not your fault!! He is substituting something he WANTS with YOU instead of coming to YOU for it. Only you can understand and inquire what that want and desire is. Again this isn't your fault, but it is something you can help him overcome since you will be his wife someday. Talk to him gently, let him see that not only do you feel betrayed but that you are feeling inadequate which is absolutely normal for you to feel in my opinion. Make him feel comfortable to discuss his sexual desires with you for the duration of your marriage, and you should feel the same way.
Several guys into porn aren't getting something they want from their wife, porn becomes the substitute. This doesn't make it the wife's fault however if the husband is begging for you to wear lingerie and you won't, you can BET he's getting his lingerie viewing in some other way.Trust me, coming from a guy who once conducted himself in the way your fiance has been, he'd MUCH rather have whatever he's getting from strangers, from the woman he's chosen to spend the rest of his life with.... YOU!
Not to bible thump anyone and the following is simply my opinion, but there is a massive amount of marital wisdom from Paul in 1st Corinthians 7: 1 - 90
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