Survey time: Should a guy pay on a first date?

MisdemeanorM

did he do the asking out? If so yes.

wolverine66

boy.... am i glad we got this resolved.

Rhea30

Why wouldn't you had let her pay?

For a multitude of reasons. It's what I was taught. It's my responsibility as a man. I don't want her to have to, or even feel like she has to. I want to show her (in a rather simplistic way) that I hold her above other girls who might be 'friends'.

The list certainly doesn't end there...and not one of those reasons on that list involves controlling her.

Please explain to me how not letting someone do something they would like to do not controlling.

Please explain to me how someone not letting me do something I want to do is not controlling.

I would say that in a mutually respectful relationship if there are two contradictory ideas, then some of the time one person would do want they wanted to do and some of the time the other would.

And I would say, that in a mutually respectful relationship, I would give on things that were very important to her, and she should give on things that are very important to me.

I still don't see which part of this is controlling.

What if it was important for her to pay?

Then she should probably move on and find a man more interested in showing her a complete lack of respect...because that man isn't me.

Simply put...if she can't comprehend and appreciate the fact that I am doing what I'm doing out of a desire to show her my respect and admiration, or at the least my acknowledgement of the fact that I appreciate her accepting (or even offering) to go out with me...she's NEVER going to get the fact that I'll open every door we go through (assuming my hands aren't full with children), open her car door before opening my own, walk on the outside of the sidewalk, take her place in front of a moving car...you know, things men are supposed to do for the women who have graced us with their love and attention.

At that point, as I said...it's best we simply part ways.

Agree that probably wouldn't be a good match.
However, allowing a woman to pay isn't really a sign of disrespect. Can a woman not show respect, admiration, love, and affection by paying for a dinner?

Actually...as you've seen in this thread, for the majority of society it surely is a sign of disrespect, and I agree with them.

As for a woman showing respect, admiration, love, and affection...respecting my need to provide for her in the form of paying for our 'dates' does all of those things and more. Again, if she is so independant that she has to send some sort of message just to express it, by paying for herself, or even for both of us...we're not going to work out well anyhow.

There are many ways, even financially...for a woman to show appreciation for a man, that don't take away from the societally accepted (and sometimes deeply ingrained) ways a man financially shows appreciation for a woman.

Its not a sign of disrespect. My husband has the fullest respect for me and has never disrespected me. I'm glad he appreciates me for the person I am instead of just for me being a woman.

focus4fitness

I think he should pay, but I think she should offer to pay.

coachblt

If a woman insists on paying for her part of the dinner, she's obviously wanting to control you by NOT letting you pay for the dinner.

How's that for a flip?

HA! Touche...I dig it.

Thank you!

sunnyday789

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

BruteSquad

I pay.

Why, because no matter what society says about equal this or any other crap. I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man. If you do not wish a second date, that is fine. The first date is to see if we both qualify for a second date.

Now, if we have been together for a long time, and we go out and you wish to pay.......
I will still pay. Because I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. etc.

sunnyday789

If a woman insists on paying for her part of the dinner, she's obviously wanting to control you by NOT letting you pay for the dinner.

How's that for a flip?

As I said earlier......

I would say that in a mutually respectful relationship if there are two contradictory ideas, then some of the time one person would do want they wanted to do and some of the time the other would.

coachblt

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

Hell yeah! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :happy:

coachblt

If a woman insists on paying for her part of the dinner, she's obviously wanting to control you by NOT letting you pay for the dinner.

How's that for a flip?

As I said earlier......

I would say that in a mutually respectful relationship if there are two contradictory ideas, then some of the time one person would do want they wanted to do and some of the time the other would.

We're not talking about a relationship. We're talking about the FIRST DATE.

sunnyday789

If a woman insists on paying for her part of the dinner, she's obviously wanting to control you by NOT letting you pay for the dinner.

How's that for a flip?

As I said earlier......

I would say that in a mutually respectful relationship if there are two contradictory ideas, then some of the time one person would do want they wanted to do and some of the time the other would.

We're not talking about a relationship. We're talking about the FIRST DATE.

Actually if you had followed the conversation (I know, too long) the repsonse was to a man who insisted that he would always want to pay.

crisanderson27

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.

Its not a sign of disrespect. My husband has the fullest respect for me and has never disrespected me. I'm glad he appreciates me for the person I am instead of just for me being a woman.

That's great that this worked for you. The fact remains that part of who you are, is a woman. If he doesn't respect that part as well...then he doesn't respect you (understand, I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm saying you likely don't see it for what it is). I too want to be respected for who I am...and a large part of that includes the fact that I am a man. If I were a woman, even with a very similar overall outlook...I would certainly not be the same person.

sunnyday789

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

Hell yeah! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :happy:

lol, now I understand where your perspective

jfaure23

He at least needs to make the motion like he's going to pay!

amysj303

I think whoever invited should pay but I also think the guy should pay.

Marcel7

Normally I would say yes. $75 is bit steep for a first dinner. I would say that if you expected the guy to pay, you shouldn't have given him any money. In any case, since this is important to you, I would say you should not go out with him again.

krclaytor

Of course. When you ask the girl, its implied that you wish to pay for the "adventure". She can always go spend money herself, without the hassles of dong it on a date. And if she ask you, be old fashion and pay anyway. Can't take it with you.

LifeOnMars_

Split the bill seems fair to me.

thingal12

Guys should pay the first 2-3 months of dating. It's part of courting a woman.

Il_DaniD_lI

Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.

crisanderson27

I pay.

Why, because no matter what society says about equal this or any other crap. I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man. If you do not wish a second date, that is fine. The first date is to see if we both qualify for a second date.

Now, if we have been together for a long time, and we go out and you wish to pay.......
I will still pay. Because I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. etc.

Amen!!

You and I would get along very well lol. Unfortunately though, with the direction this thread has turned (and no one's going to go back and read 20 pages of it.../sigh!), we're going to start hearing big words like 'misogynistic', 'cis-normative', and 'patriarchal' to describe responses like that.

Maybe the best response is just to stand there and repeat:

I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man.

Lol.

crisanderson27

Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.

This beautiful young lady...gets it!

rm830

Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.

Absolutely!

sunnyday789

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?



I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.


I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.

crisanderson27

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.

I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.

I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.

I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.

WickedGarden

I didn't read the first 20 pages (sorry).

IMHO it depends on who's asking, the person asking should pay. What if the girl asks the guy to go to Ruth Chris' (a really nice steakhouse), but her date just paid rent and bills and doesn't have money until next payday? She should pay, not fair if he could only afford to take her to Olive Garden or something like that.

I've always offered to pay.

sunnyday789

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.

I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.

I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.

I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.

They are comparable just on different scales, which doesn't make it irrelevant or irrational

Why can't a woman do something small for a man, like pay for dinner? Oops, forgot you're not respnding to me anymore

foster59803

I pay.

Why, because no matter what society says about equal this or any other crap. I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man. If you do not wish a second date, that is fine. The first date is to see if we both qualify for a second date.

Now, if we have been together for a long time, and we go out and you wish to pay.......
I will still pay. Because I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. etc.

Amen!!

You and I would get along very well lol. Unfortunately though, with the direction this thread has turned (and no one's going to go back and read 20 pages of it.../sigh!), we're going to start hearing big words like 'misogynistic', 'cis-normative', and 'patriarchal' to describe responses like that.

Maybe the best response is just to stand there and repeat:

I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man.

Lol.

Correct... I did not read the last 20 pages, but after reading these two responses... I don't have to! You guys are SPOT ON! Cheers to all the real men out there! Enough said!

rm830

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.

I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.

I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.

I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.

:laugh: I love having u as my MFP friend!!

crisanderson27

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.

I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.

I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.

I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.

They are comparable just on different scales, which doesn't make it irrelevant or irrational

Why can't a woman do something small for a man, like pay for dinner? Oops, forgot you're not respnding to me anymore

So...I hunt with a 30-06. During WW2, the Navy hunted with a 120mm M1.

Gotcha, comparable on different scales.

And as for your question about a woman doing something small for a man, like paying for dinner...that's great. If she wants to, she can do so for another man.

Again...I'm stating this very, very clearly. If she's so very independant that she cannot handle and/or appreciate the fact that I've been taught to show respect for my date by paying...then one of the very fundamental things required for a real relationships is going to be missing. Unless the other parts of our relationship are stellar (and even then...chances are it won't work), she should just move on and find someone more willing to allow her to express that independance as she pleases, without respect for him or the things he may or may not have been taught.