Building Muscle vs. Losing Weight

enyo123

I've learned on here that one cannot build muscle while in a calorie deficit. But at the same time, one can't lose weight unless there's a calorie deficit. *sigh* I'm trying to figure out which to focus on.

I'm 7 pounds overweight (losing 7 pounds will put me at the top of an acceptable BMI for my height), and my body fat composition is outrageous. I just had a baby two months ago, so I'm sure that hasn't exactly helped. And I have PCOS. :-P

So, that being said, here's what I'm currently doing: I'm doing the weight lifting circuits from ChaLEAN Extreme three times a week. I do an abs workout daily, and I do a workout from Turbo Jam 3-5 times per week. Oh, and I do a stretching/yoga video 3-5 times per week, as well. I also chase my kids around the park a few times a week and take either dogs or kids on walks through the woods. I'm certainly active now.

I did CLX before I had my last baby and quit while I got pregnant. In six weeks, I saw some amazing work on my arms. This time around, I'm not seeing the same results, and I'm assuming that's because of the 500 calories per day deficit. (I eat back my workout calories and have myself set to sedentary.) Last time I did CLX, I wasn't tracking what I ate and just essentially ate what I wanted when I was hungry.

So, here's my conundrum: I want to do both. Is it even possible to lose weight while building muscle, or do I have to choose? And if I have to choose, which one would I be better off doing first?

cowgirlslikeus86

Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.

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enyo123

Awesome. It's just something that I keep seeing repeated on here. Again and again and again. :-P

I haven't figured out how to reset my macros, but I do tend to be consistently over in my protein... especially on weight training days.

mamamudbug

You will not gain muscle in a calorie deficit except in a couple of special circumstances. One being obesity. You just stressed your body to the max... it's hard work creating people Which might be why you're not seeing results as quickly. You're also really active, so you may be burning more calories than you think. Check out the group eat more weigh less, do a search on women eating at higher calories, and most of all keep up the strength training. :bigsmile: It will all come together and work for you, you just may have to be more patient this time around.

d2footballJRC

Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.

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ehhh... Not entirely accurate. Protein will help more with not losing current muscles then building then on a caloric deficit. You still have to feed your body to grow. I wouldn't expect a lot of muscle growth on a deficit. Again bodies are different but you will see very little muscle growth on a calorie deficit.

mamamudbug

I haven't figured out how to reset my macros, but I do tend to be consistently over in my protein... especially on weight training days.

You go to goals and set it up through the customs settings. Being over in protein isn't a bad thing. Typically you want to have about 1g per pound of lbm.

kristi321

I've heard mixed messages too. I do think that eating enough protein is very important and I think the calorie deficit should be more conservative, like 300 calories below TDEE. But if someone is about 20 lbs overweight can they build muscle versus someone who is 5 lbs overweight?

shaycat

Sounds like your workouts are great. How many calories are you eating? Maybe switch to .5lb a week loss instead of 1 lb?
I am doing CLX, really liking it so far. I try to eat 1700 calories a day, I dont eat back my exercise.

strikerjb007

Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.

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Good luck gaining muscle on a calorie deficit. The most you can hope for is to KEEP your current muscle mass.

ArroganceInStep

For most people (and I stress most) I would think cutting first and bulking afterwards would be 'better'. The reason for this is that if lifting is new to them, then the time spent becoming accustomed to a workout will be on the cut rather than the bulk. There's also more visible progress on a cut than on a bulk, so getting that motivitation boost right off the bat really helps.

EDIT:

Sounds like your workouts are great. How many calories are you eating? Maybe switch to .5lb a week loss instead of 1 lb?

Also this. If you're only trying to lose a few pounds, slower loss is better. Remember it's just an estimate, so tweak the totals as you need, but going for a 1/2 lb loss a week over a 1lb loss will help reduce LBM loss on the cut.

diddyh

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

shaycat

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

NONE of my jeans fit around my thighs anymore! I like the muscle there, but I need new pants now.
This is where I am at to, but now that I am at my goal weight, I think if I wanted to build bigger muscles I would need to eat more. However the more I eat the harder it is to keep my stomach flat. So I too am trying to build muscle while in a deficit, but just a small one.

enyo123

Sounds like your workouts are great. How many calories are you eating? Maybe switch to .5lb a week loss instead of 1 lb?
I am doing CLX, really liking it so far. I try to eat 1700 calories a day, I dont eat back my exercise.

My net is 1230. I don't go more than 150 short in a day. On heavy workout days, I'll eat close to 2000 calories (because I'm eating back my exercise), and on lighter days, I'll eat closer to 1400. Usually, I'm right around 1700.

The counting my exercise and eating it back works well for me psychologically because I love the concept of my breakfast essentially being "free." :-)

wackyfunster

Try a LeanGains recomp diet, if you are willing to do IF and be OCD about your macros

MyTime1985

bump

kristi321

This is an excellent article on this topic!

http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

enyo123

For most people (and I stress most) I would think cutting first and bulking afterwards would be 'better'. The reason for this is that if lifting is new to them, then the time spent becoming accustomed to a workout will be on the cut rather than the bulk. There's also more visible progress on a cut than on a bulk, so getting that motivitation boost right off the bat really helps.

EDIT:

Sounds like your workouts are great. How many calories are you eating? Maybe switch to .5lb a week loss instead of 1 lb?

Also this. If you're only trying to lose a few pounds, slower loss is better. Remember it's just an estimate, so tweak the totals as you need, but going for a 1/2 lb loss a week over a 1lb loss will help reduce LBM loss on the cut.

I'm actually out to lose 23 more pounds. I'm shooting for 126, which is still heavier than my "when I met my husband" weight. I don't have any expectation of actually *losing* 1 pound a week. Sometimes I'll lose a couple, sometimes I'll lose only half. With PCOS, I have to work twice as hard to lose half the weight.

strikerjb007

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

shaycat

For most people (and I stress most) I would think cutting first and bulking afterwards would be 'better'. The reason for this is that if lifting is new to them, then the time spent becoming accustomed to a workout will be on the cut rather than the bulk. There's also more visible progress on a cut than on a bulk, so getting that motivitation boost right off the bat really helps.

EDIT:

Sounds like your workouts are great. How many calories are you eating? Maybe switch to .5lb a week loss instead of 1 lb?

Also this. If you're only trying to lose a few pounds, slower loss is better. Remember it's just an estimate, so tweak the totals as you need, but going for a 1/2 lb loss a week over a 1lb loss will help reduce LBM loss on the cut.

I'm actually out to lose 23 more pounds. I'm shooting for 126, which is still heavier than my "when I met my husband" weight. I don't have any expectation of actually *losing* 1 pound a week. Sometimes I'll lose a couple, sometimes I'll lose only half. With PCOS, I have to work twice as hard to lose half the weight.

I think an above poster said, maybe focus more on losing the weight now, then when you get closer to your goal you can add in more heavy lifting. That would be my advise. You would probably see results quicker doing that. Dont give up all strength, but maybe just a CLX lifting day once a week with cardio on top of that.

waldo56

When you first start lifting and are overweight, you should be able to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

But that will be relativley short lived, lasting only a couple months, afterwards you typically will be able to do one or the other. There are cycling methods to do it, but it is horribly inefficient and very detail oriented.

You are better off optimizing for fat loss, take whatever muscle gains you can as you go down, then once you are past your final weight goal, reevaluate.

LorinaLynn

Strength train and get adequate protein to MAINTAIN lean muscle, and you won't have to lose as many pounds to reach your goal body, since the majority of weight you lose will be from fat, and not have to try to gain muscle later.

Onesnap

As a woman you should focus on cardio and weight training (or strength training of some sort like Power Yoga)

The reason is because starting in our 30s we lose bone and muscle mass.

Thus, making it harder to keep the weight off (losing muscle = more fat with each decade)

Weight bearing exercise is your only defense against bone loss.

crisanderson27

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

No, in that other thread we finally came to the conclusion that she's either not human, doesn't have any control of the variables surrounding her weight loss/muscle gain, or is just too stubborn to realize that physiologically, what she's saying isn't possible.

Either that, or she's a special little snowflake with a totally different physiological makeup than the rest of humanity. Yes, we're all different, no...we're not different to the extent that the biological laws that govern our bodies can be tossed out the window for half of us.

To the OP...the ABSOLUTELY biggest thing I'm seeing, is that you are seriously NOT a sedentary person. You need to make some adjustments to your caloric intake, and in my opinion, it will have to go up.

enyo123

True fact: I was pretty darned sedentary until two weeks ago. This is day 15 of my *kitten* kicking workouts, and I feel so much better for having done it.

Sarauk2sf

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you had a DEXA scan before and after? If not, there is absolutely no way you can categorically make the statement that you have gained muscle, especially as it flies in the face of how the body actually works.

lporter229

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

Can you expand on this? Because, really, I think that's what most women want when they say "build muscle"...

shaycat

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

Can you expand on this? Because, really, I think that's what most women want when they say "build muscle"...

Yes I am really confessed now. If it is not muscle, then why ate my thighs now bigger and rock hard when I flex them, same with my calf's? Also they are small, but I have some bicep muscle. I have not been eating over my maintenance calories for the last year.

crisanderson27

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

Can you expand on this? Because, really, I think that's what most women want when they say "build muscle"...

The problem with what he said is he's not taking into account that she said her measurements increased. Part of this has ZERO to do with 'gaining muscle'. Neuromuscular response (your brain building more efficient communication with your EXISTING MUSCLE) plays a big part, so does your body holding on to fluid, thus 'swelling'. This swelling happens on a cellular level, and isn't something you're going to recognize as 'being swolen' in the typical sense of it.

Your body composition (bodyfat %) can go down without gaining muscle...simply by losing fat. Rarely if ever does this result in an increase in measurements though.

DavPul

That's more or less true, but don't worry about it. It's mostly an issue for intermediate and advanced lifters who have hit a point where gains are tougher to come by. The body needs a caloric excess to build muscle, and a caloric deficit to lose weight (fat or muscle). So you can see why those two processes are at odds with each other.

But beginners or relative beginners can see gains in both at the same time. You can get stronger, much stronger, while still losing bodyfat %. Give it all you've got at the gym and give it all you've got in the kitchen, and you'll be reaching your goals sooner than you think.

The most important thing is to stay motivated. Too often people learn about something or hear someone say something that they let get them down and then they use that as an excuse to not keep pushing forward. Don't let that happen to you. Lift+Portion Control=Results

aviduser

Awesome. It's just something that I keep seeing repeated on here. Again and again and again. :-P

I haven't figured out how to reset my macros, but I do tend to be consistently over in my protein... especially on weight training days.

Alas, there really is a lot of crap in the forums from people who don't really know what they are talking about.

You can and will build muscle while in deficit. Even better, the more muscle you build, the higher you metabolism will be, because lean muscle burns more calories than fat.

Just stick with the program. Log you calories. Stay just under the limit every day. Exercise. You WILL lose weight.

bebreli

I am confused too. I read this posted on another forum:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html

If you’re above 15% body fat (about 24-27% for women), diet first. If you can get to the 10-12% (19-24%) body fat range or so, I think you’ll be in an overall better position to gain mass. Trying to get super lean will probably end up screwing you in the long run because your body will be primed to put back fat on (and most other physiological systems are screwed up as well) when you get super lean.

So reading this I would think I need to lose more weight before I should start lifting? I was ready to hit the weights hard then read through this article and was sad because if I am reading correctly I will just get bigger? I did this in my 20's and I gained weight while on a calorie deficit while lifting and I looked horrible!