Building Muscle vs. Losing Weight

Onesnap

As a woman you should focus on cardio and weight training (or strength training of some sort like Power Yoga)

The reason is because starting in our 30s we lose bone and muscle mass.

Thus, making it harder to keep the weight off (losing muscle = more fat with each decade)

Weight bearing exercise is your only defense against bone loss.

crisanderson27

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

No, in that other thread we finally came to the conclusion that she's either not human, doesn't have any control of the variables surrounding her weight loss/muscle gain, or is just too stubborn to realize that physiologically, what she's saying isn't possible.

Either that, or she's a special little snowflake with a totally different physiological makeup than the rest of humanity. Yes, we're all different, no...we're not different to the extent that the biological laws that govern our bodies can be tossed out the window for half of us.

To the OP...the ABSOLUTELY biggest thing I'm seeing, is that you are seriously NOT a sedentary person. You need to make some adjustments to your caloric intake, and in my opinion, it will have to go up.

enyo123

True fact: I was pretty darned sedentary until two weeks ago. This is day 15 of my *kitten* kicking workouts, and I feel so much better for having done it.

Sarauk2sf

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you had a DEXA scan before and after? If not, there is absolutely no way you can categorically make the statement that you have gained muscle, especially as it flies in the face of how the body actually works.

lporter229

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

Can you expand on this? Because, really, I think that's what most women want when they say "build muscle"...

shaycat

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

Can you expand on this? Because, really, I think that's what most women want when they say "build muscle"...

Yes I am really confessed now. If it is not muscle, then why ate my thighs now bigger and rock hard when I flex them, same with my calf's? Also they are small, but I have some bicep muscle. I have not been eating over my maintenance calories for the last year.

crisanderson27

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

Can you expand on this? Because, really, I think that's what most women want when they say "build muscle"...

The problem with what he said is he's not taking into account that she said her measurements increased. Part of this has ZERO to do with 'gaining muscle'. Neuromuscular response (your brain building more efficient communication with your EXISTING MUSCLE) plays a big part, so does your body holding on to fluid, thus 'swelling'. This swelling happens on a cellular level, and isn't something you're going to recognize as 'being swolen' in the typical sense of it.

Your body composition (bodyfat %) can go down without gaining muscle...simply by losing fat. Rarely if ever does this result in an increase in measurements though.

DavPul

That's more or less true, but don't worry about it. It's mostly an issue for intermediate and advanced lifters who have hit a point where gains are tougher to come by. The body needs a caloric excess to build muscle, and a caloric deficit to lose weight (fat or muscle). So you can see why those two processes are at odds with each other.

But beginners or relative beginners can see gains in both at the same time. You can get stronger, much stronger, while still losing bodyfat %. Give it all you've got at the gym and give it all you've got in the kitchen, and you'll be reaching your goals sooner than you think.

The most important thing is to stay motivated. Too often people learn about something or hear someone say something that they let get them down and then they use that as an excuse to not keep pushing forward. Don't let that happen to you. Lift+Portion Control=Results

aviduser

Awesome. It's just something that I keep seeing repeated on here. Again and again and again. :-P

I haven't figured out how to reset my macros, but I do tend to be consistently over in my protein... especially on weight training days.

Alas, there really is a lot of crap in the forums from people who don't really know what they are talking about.

You can and will build muscle while in deficit. Even better, the more muscle you build, the higher you metabolism will be, because lean muscle burns more calories than fat.

Just stick with the program. Log you calories. Stay just under the limit every day. Exercise. You WILL lose weight.

bebreli

I am confused too. I read this posted on another forum:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html

If you’re above 15% body fat (about 24-27% for women), diet first. If you can get to the 10-12% (19-24%) body fat range or so, I think you’ll be in an overall better position to gain mass. Trying to get super lean will probably end up screwing you in the long run because your body will be primed to put back fat on (and most other physiological systems are screwed up as well) when you get super lean.

So reading this I would think I need to lose more weight before I should start lifting? I was ready to hit the weights hard then read through this article and was sad because if I am reading correctly I will just get bigger? I did this in my 20's and I gained weight while on a calorie deficit while lifting and I looked horrible!

crisanderson27

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

Can you expand on this? Because, really, I think that's what most women want when they say "build muscle"...

Yes I am really confessed now. If it is not muscle, then why ate my thighs now bigger and rock hard when I flex them, same with my calf's? Also they are small, but I have some bicep muscle. I have not been eating over my maintenance calories for the last year.

Neuromuscular response.

Let me tell you a short story. In February, I ripped my lower right biceps tendon completely off my forearm. Since your muscles require two points of attachment in order to work...my biceps was useless. I could 'flex' it...but basically that just made it climb higher up my arm. A couple weeks later, surgery was performed, and my right arm was mostly immobilized in a brace for two more weeks. When the brace was removed (approximately a month of minimal activity), my biceps was visibly smaller, and when 'flexed'...was still soft and mushy. My left arm was obviously still the same as always. I did NOT 'lose' the amount of muscle that I appeared to...over one months time. Anyhow, shortly after the brace was removed, I went back to the gym. I didn't work my biceps directly, and would only perform upper body exercises where my biceps was engaged in a secondary function, or not at all. Within two weeks, my right biceps would 'flex' again, had gained substantial size (still not as big as the left...yet), and even visible definition. I didn't gain an OUNCE of muscle in those two weeks. Within a month, my biceps are visibly almost identical, when I flexed the right one, it's hard. And again...there was zero muscle actually gained. The difference gained in that month, was OVER AN INCH in size. This was all due to my brain 'reconnecting', and improving its efficiency in communicating with the muscle that was already there, due to the workload being placed on it (again, no DIRECT weight bearing biceps exercises). For people (particularly women) who are sedentary or very overweight, their muscles may NEVER have needed any real level of communication (again, neuromuscular response), and when they begin using them to any real level for the first time, that communication comes quickly.

It's a very simple concept, with lots of very large and complicated words used to explain it.

crisanderson27

Awesome. It's just something that I keep seeing repeated on here. Again and again and again. :-P

I haven't figured out how to reset my macros, but I do tend to be consistently over in my protein... especially on weight training days.

Alas, there really is a lot of crap in the forums from people who don't really know what they are talking about.

You can and will build muscle while in deficit. Even better, the more muscle you build, the higher you metabolism will be, because lean muscle burns more calories than fat.

Just stick with the program. Log you calories. Stay just under the limit every day. Exercise. You WILL lose weight.

Definitely a lot of crap information in the forums...I mean, look at the post above.

Except the part in bold...which is very good information.

Roadie2000

When you first start lifting and are overweight, you should be able to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

But that will be relativley short lived, lasting only a couple months, afterwards you typically will be able to do one or the other. There are cycling methods to do it, but it is horribly inefficient and very detail oriented.

You are better off optimizing for fat loss, take whatever muscle gains you can as you go down, then once you are past your final weight goal, reevaluate.

I agree with this. And I'm kind of in the same situation as the OP (except it's a little different for us guys), I want to build muscle mass but lose the gut. I've lost 20 lbs before by doing mostly cardio and some heavy lifting but when it was done I just felt scrawny. So right now, since I haven't lifted in a while I'm trying to take advantage of the newbie muscle gain and bulk up a little. I'm hoping in the process the waistline will come down a little, or else I'll try to cut calories again after a couple months. I also don't weigh myself or keep a food log, I'll probably just take measurements every couple weeks to see if anything is happening.

CyberEd312

Obese people can build some muscle while in a caloric deficit because they have fat stores to pull from for energy this will also aid them in keeping lean muscle mass that they already have hidden under layers of fat... Eventually you will have to concentrate on each area separately... That is what most do during Bulking and Cutting phase.... Doesn't mean you can't do both though, there are benefits of doing both while losing weight, you just won't be building much new muscle but should still keep the scale moving downward... Best of Luck...

crisanderson27

When you first start lifting and are overweight, you should be able to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

But that will be relativley short lived, lasting only a couple months, afterwards you typically will be able to do one or the other. There are cycling methods to do it, but it is horribly inefficient and very detail oriented.

You are better off optimizing for fat loss, take whatever muscle gains you can as you go down, then once you are past your final weight goal, reevaluate.

I agree with this. And I'm kind of in the same situation as the OP (except it's a little different for us guys), I want to build muscle mass but lose the gut. I've lost 20 lbs before by doing mostly cardio and some heavy lifting but when it was done I just felt scrawny. So right now, since I haven't lifted in a while I'm trying to take advantage of the newbie muscle gain and bulk up a little. I'm hoping in the process the waistline will come down a little, or else I'll try to cut calories again after a couple months. I also don't weigh myself or keep a food log, I'll probably just take measurements every couple weeks to see if anything is happening.

I lost 40lbs of (what amounted to) mostly fat, over 3mos, doing nothing but heavy strength training 3x a week, and eating under my TDEE.

I put on ZERO mass.





Edited to add...if you look at the tie on the waist band of my pants in the top right picture...that's where my belly STARTED...I lost 10" on my waist in that time...with almost zero cardio.

shaycat

I guess I don't care if it is muscle or Neuromuscular response. My arms and legs and stomach have a nice definition. I am in shape and feel good. I got this why from a lot of hard work and good diet.

crisanderson27

I guess I don't care if it is muscle or Neuromuscular response. My arms and legs and stomach have a nice definition. I am in shape and feel good. I got this why from a lot of hard work and good diet.

Definitely! And you should be proud of it!

Just understand it for what it really is...which isn't gained muscle .

bebreli

When you first start lifting and are overweight, you should be able to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

But that will be relativley short lived, lasting only a couple months, afterwards you typically will be able to do one or the other. There are cycling methods to do it, but it is horribly inefficient and very detail oriented.

You are better off optimizing for fat loss, take whatever muscle gains you can as you go down, then once you are past your final weight goal, reevaluate.

I agree with this. And I'm kind of in the same situation as the OP (except it's a little different for us guys), I want to build muscle mass but lose the gut. I've lost 20 lbs before by doing mostly cardio and some heavy lifting but when it was done I just felt scrawny. So right now, since I haven't lifted in a while I'm trying to take advantage of the newbie muscle gain and bulk up a little. I'm hoping in the process the waistline will come down a little, or else I'll try to cut calories again after a couple months. I also don't weigh myself or keep a food log, I'll probably just take measurements every couple weeks to see if anything is happening.

I lost 40lbs of (what amounted to) mostly fat, over 3mos, doing nothing but heavy strength training 3x a week, and eating under my TDEE.

I put on ZERO mass.





Edited to add...if you look at the tie on the waist band of my pants in the top right picture...that's where my belly STARTED...I lost 10" on my waist in that time...with almost zero cardio.

This is super helpful!! I agree.. I don't need to lift a car but I want to look better. If that means lifting heavy and eating under TDEE I would take these results any day!! You look awesome!

crisanderson27

When you first start lifting and are overweight, you should be able to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

But that will be relativley short lived, lasting only a couple months, afterwards you typically will be able to do one or the other. There are cycling methods to do it, but it is horribly inefficient and very detail oriented.

You are better off optimizing for fat loss, take whatever muscle gains you can as you go down, then once you are past your final weight goal, reevaluate.

I agree with this. And I'm kind of in the same situation as the OP (except it's a little different for us guys), I want to build muscle mass but lose the gut. I've lost 20 lbs before by doing mostly cardio and some heavy lifting but when it was done I just felt scrawny. So right now, since I haven't lifted in a while I'm trying to take advantage of the newbie muscle gain and bulk up a little. I'm hoping in the process the waistline will come down a little, or else I'll try to cut calories again after a couple months. I also don't weigh myself or keep a food log, I'll probably just take measurements every couple weeks to see if anything is happening.

I lost 40lbs of (what amounted to) mostly fat, over 3mos, doing nothing but heavy strength training 3x a week, and eating under my TDEE.

I put on ZERO mass.





Edited to add...if you look at the tie on the waist band of my pants in the top right picture...that's where my belly STARTED...I lost 10" on my waist in that time...with almost zero cardio.

This is super helpful!! I agree.. I don't need to lift a car but I want to look better. If that means lifting heavy and eating under TDEE I would take these results any day!! You look awesome!

Thanks!!

I was just about to reply to your PM with a link to this thread . My results sort of fly in the face of that article you posted, don't you think? Understand that as a woman, it's possibly going to take a little more time of course, and you're going to have monthly set backs...but in the end, you are a human being and the results will be the same. I've seen a number of women do this exact thing over the last two months plus.

diddyh

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Have you verified this with a body caliper? What you describe sounds like your body composition has changed. That's not the same as gaining muscle.

Look I now have very nice quads. I am not imagining it. I do not need to verify that they are indeed there. I've actually worked quite hard for them. You can verify whatever you wish with whom or whatever you wish. I will continue to have great results doing what I am doing. I am not going to justify my successes with men on here who keep telling me I am mistaken. You do what works for you and I will do what works for me. I will not stop sharing my successes because you can't wrap your head around it. My mirror, my scale, my measuring tape, and my clothes are telling me everything I need to know about my successes and/or faillures.