Open Relationships?
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I can get on board with the fact you can be committed to a relationship with or without marriage. I can even say if you or Sue or Joe want to have an open marriage that's your business.... but... to me it doesn't make sense (nothing to do with commitment here) because marriage was created to join two people together for the duration of their lives.
Like it or don't that was it's purpose so my thinking is if you can be just as committed in an open relationship and just as committed without being married why not do that rather than muddy what marriage means?
I guess my thinking is it's being married without being married. To me its like getting baptized in a Christian church when you believe in multiple Gods.... What's the point? (I don't want to talk about religion but that's the closest thing I can think of). I don't care if someone else does it but it doesn't make sense to me.
Marriage wasn't created to join two people for the rest of their lives. Nor was marriage created with love in mind. Marriage was a business transaction and a way of owning another person. The notions around when the concept of marriage was created bear no real relevence to society or marriage now.
Hear hear. As far as I know, to actually get married (in the states) you have to sign a piece of paper that says that you're gonna be married and they send you back a piece of paper that says you're married. There's no god mentioned on the marriage license/certificate.
When the government gets out of the marriage business and stops offering over 1000 benefits and incentives to married couples that people considered legally single do not recieve, then maybe there's some ground to stand on about the "muddying of what marriage means".
I'm not sure why you're bringing up god in reference to the marriage certificate. I did not mention God in reference to marriage.
You said it was created to join people together for the rest of their lives. That was originally a Christian view. Pre-Christ - marriage was almost entirely based on polygamy and a man could let his wives and concubines go at any time he wanted. Even in the old testament. What you stated is a christian view that later spread.
Marriage wasnt created for that reason.
Marriage has thousands of years of history as a financial gains, business merger, supply an heir, create a brood, status uplifting operation.
It wasnt a declaration of love.
It wasnt a public account of a union.
Not until much much later when christians got hold of it. I believe that they made it much better. but their version of marriage is what They created it for, not what it was actually created for.
Christians didn't invent monogamy, nor did Jews.
I didnt say anything about monogamy. I talked about polygamy -- but only as historical reference because you said marriage was created to join TWO people together. said nothing about monogamy.
join two people together = monogamy
You said :
" You said it was created to join people together for the rest of their lives. That was originally a Christian view."
No it wasn't. The Christians were not the 1st or even the 2nd ones to hold it.
i didnt say TWO people crazy lady.
Im done defending my life to you.
you want to hate me and doom me pain and suffering, then enjoy and savor the hatred.
im going to go exercise and be healthy and happy and feel the sun on my face.
To me that feels more healthy than sitting in front of a computer ramming my standards down others' mouths, but im sure you would tell me Im wrong about that for a long list of subjective reasons.
Enjoy it.
Savor and roll around in your self-righteousness.0 -
ou're bringing up god in reference to the marriage certificate. I did not mention God in reference to marriage.
You said it was created to join people together for the rest of their lives. That was originally a Christian view. Pre-Christ - marriage was almost entirely based on polygamy and a man could let his wives and concubines go at any time he wanted. Even in the old testament. What you stated is a christian view that later spread.
Marriage wasnt created for that reason.
Marriage has thousands of years of history as a financial gains, business merger, supply an heir, create a brood, status uplifting operation.
It wasnt a declaration of love.
It wasnt a public account of a union.
Not until much much later when christians got hold of it. I believe that they made it much better. but their version of marriage is what They created it for, not what it was actually created for.
[/quote]
I think it was only in the last few centuries was marriage more about love and less about getting ahead or even just staying afloat. People would get married young, live in their own house simply because their original families were large, no room in the house or money in the pocket to feed everyone. If you look at European royalty during the crusades, they didn't marry for love. It was all arranged, sometimes at birth. Sometimes for the mutual benefits of 2 families, sometimes it was to make allies of other countries. Can you imagine being a young teen, sent off to another country with foreign customs and languages? yeah, kinda sucky.
In rural areas, you married the most compatible person in the area. There was no going off to college and meeting new people! You stayed near the homestead, worked on the farm in the fam. business. and did with the parents told you to do. Lets look at a small town of 500 ppl. there is no leaving, what are you going to do? be a sexless spinster or pick up with the person you're most compatible with? Some lucked out, many did not. But you did what society expected of you. Unless you lived in a very populated area, you didn't have many choices. and when you did, depending on your social status, even that didn't matter.0 -
Yes marriage was created to join two people as long as they both lived. Was for breeding purposes? Maybe, maybe not it certainly became that way but either way it wasn't created with multiple partners in mind.
If marriage can mean whatever we want it to mean then what is the point of having marriages? I mean really....what is the point?
It doesn't have to be tow people
You can be just as committed without it
So what is the purpose?
Marriage is just legal nonsense really. Everything else that does with it is down to the individual couples.
Marriage is its oldest recorded forms allowed polygamy, so to me it was not a creation for just two people to enter into.0 -
I can get on board with the fact you can be committed to a relationship with or without marriage. I can even say if you or Sue or Joe want to have an open marriage that's your business.... but... to me it doesn't make sense (nothing to do with commitment here) because marriage was created to join two people together for the duration of their lives.
Like it or don't that was it's purpose so my thinking is if you can be just as committed in an open relationship and just as committed without being married why not do that rather than muddy what marriage means?
I guess my thinking is it's being married without being married. To me its like getting baptized in a Christian church when you believe in multiple Gods.... What's the point? (I don't want to talk about religion but that's the closest thing I can think of). I don't care if someone else does it but it doesn't make sense to me.
Marriage wasn't created to join two people for the rest of their lives. Nor was marriage created with love in mind. Marriage was a business transaction and a way of owning another person. The notions around when the concept of marriage was created bear no real relevence to society or marriage now.
Hear hear. As far as I know, to actually get married (in the states) you have to sign a piece of paper that says that you're gonna be married and they send you back a piece of paper that says you're married. There's no god mentioned on the marriage license/certificate.
When the government gets out of the marriage business and stops offering over 1000 benefits and incentives to married couples that people considered legally single do not recieve, then maybe there's some ground to stand on about the "muddying of what marriage means".
I'm not sure why you're bringing up god in reference to the marriage certificate. I did not mention God in reference to marriage.
You said it was created to join people together for the rest of their lives. That was originally a Christian view. [/b} Pre-Christ - marriage was almost entirely based on polygamy and a man could let his wives and concubines go at any time he wanted. Even in the old testament. What you stated is a christian view that later spread.
Marriage wasnt created for that reason.
Marriage has thousands of years of history as a financial gains, business merger, supply an heir, create a brood, status uplifting operation.
It wasnt a declaration of love.
It wasnt a public account of a union.
Not until much much later when christians got hold of it. I believe that they made it much better. but their version of marriage is what They created it for, not what it was actually created for.
Christians didn't invent monogamy, nor did Jews.
I didnt say anything about monogamy. I talked about polygamy -- but only as historical reference because you said marriage was created to join TWO people together. said nothing about monogamy.
join two people together = monogamy
You said :
" You said it was created to join people together for the rest of their lives. That was originally a Christian view."
No it wasn't. The Christians were not the 1st or even the 2nd ones to hold it.
i didnt say TWO people crazy lady.
Read the 1st line of the bolded text. I am telling you THAT line is incorrect. the idea did NOT for the 3rd time originate with Christians.0 -
NOPE!!! Im a jealous girl!! I would have to knock a B out!!0
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I'm going blind from all the blue quote space. Is the a forum quote version of snow blindness?0
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NOPE!!! Im a jealous girl!! I would have to knock a B out!!
I'm in no way judging or criticising, but doesn't that jealousy bother you? Why are you jealous?0 -
:yawn:0
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Yes marriage was created to join two people as long as they both lived. Was for breeding purposes? Maybe, maybe not it certainly became that way but either way it wasn't created with multiple partners in mind.
If marriage can mean whatever we want it to mean then what is the point of having marriages? I mean really....what is the point?
It doesn't have to be tow people
You can be just as committed without it
So what is the purpose?
Marriage is just legal nonsense really. Everything else that does with it is down to the individual couples.
Marriage is its oldest recorded forms allowed polygamy, so to me it was not a creation for just two people to enter into.
Which is why, nearly ALL benefits of the business transaction of marriage, have been made allowable to those who ARE NOT married. Except for health insurance, you can create any number of documents to stand in lieu of being married. Further, even if you ARE married, the documents, if done properly, can actually TRUMP the rights of and benefits to the spouse. Even being married, there are some documents that STILL have to "approved" by a judge (NOT a clergymen), if planning has not properly taken place. In many states, if your husband owns property alone, you, as the wife, do NOT automatically own it. You need a judge to approve it. You have to ASK a judge if you can have it. You have to PROVE you are the heir to that property.
Incorrect. There are over 1000 federal benefits available to married couples that are not easily avalable to non married and in many instances not available at all to non married couples.0 -
just curious, swinging isn't for everyone I hate the term but I do love my husband, but sex is just sex, just curious if anyone has been doing it and had it work for a while?
If *you* think sex is just sex, then it is to you. But that's not how it is for everyone. Anyone involved in something like this could start to develop feelings. It sounds messy for a lot of people, but some couples do it successfully.
Anyway, I have NOT been in one, so this is second information from me.0 -
I wouldn't say we had an "open" relationship. But we do bring people into the mix. As long as the other person is there, we're both comfortable, and have decided on a person to bring in together, then we're all good.0
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I agree completely. If and when I am feeling jealous, I can talk to my husband about it. He ALWAYS offers to stop whatever (or whomever lol) is causing my jealousy, but for the most part, I think jealousy is MY issue to deal with. Stemming from MY insecurities. It helps me to talk it out with him. I think we can communicate more openly and effectively now than we did before we went open.
^ Smart lady.0 -
My particular comment has more to do with with what I recall of OP's situation. So my apologies if judgement was seen.
personally, an open relationship wouldn't and isn't for me. But if it is for somebody else, that's just dandy. I'd want to be sure it was for the right reasons. That it was something that would work for both parties, not a bandaid on a failing relationship.
Then again I suppose that wouldn't be my business either.
And also, I support homosexual marriages, and their rights in general. (and adoption) 100%
** also the "unsanitary" thing was kind of a joke, just my sense of humor.
"I honestly think if you'd consider this, something would be inherently wrong with the relationship." sounds pretty judgmental.
So you totally support one type of consensual relationship, but not another. Is it the monogamy thing? If it's consensual and isn't hurting *you* how can it be a bad thing?
**Sorry I didn't get your humor, sometimes text doesn't come across the same as verbally saying something. I will say, I have also met some condescending awful swingers. the resort I vacation at every year is popular with swingers. It's a hit and miss, just like the general population. Some pretty damned funny stories, though. We see many of the same couples every year, as well as the people who happen to visit at the same time.0 -
I agree completely. If and when I am feeling jealous, I can talk to my husband about it. He ALWAYS offers to stop whatever (or whomever lol) is causing my jealousy, but for the most part, I think jealousy is MY issue to deal with. Stemming from MY insecurities. It helps me to talk it out with him. I think we can communicate more openly and effectively now than we did before we went open.
This. This completely.0 -
IMO sex is just NOT sex. I could never have sex with anyone that I didn't love or at least care about. But if you think it's what you want to do then go for it. I do agree it's cheating with permission. And what happens when he finds out he likes someone more than you because the sex is better? or even you for that matter.0
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NOPE!!! Im a jealous girl!! I would have to knock a B out!!
I'm in no way judging or criticising, but doesn't that jealousy bother you? Why are you jealous?
Maybe jelous wasnt the right word. I dont like to share.0 -
If it works for them. However, in my opinion people like that are weak. You either are committed 100% or you not.
Agreed.0 -
IMO sex is just NOT sex. I could never have sex with anyone that I didn't love or at least care about. But if you think it's what you want to do then go for it. I do agree it's cheating with permission. And what happens when he finds out he likes someone more than you because the sex is better? or even you for that matter.
I like to believe that the life we've commited to building together is more important than him "liking" someone more. Just because we aren't mono doesn't mean we don't take our commitments seriously. If it turned out that he wanted to be with her more, why would I want to stop the person I love from being happy? Would it hurt? **** yes, it would suck so bad, but he coudl find someone he "liked better" even if we were mono.0 -
Um yeah, that was the right word.NOPE!!! Im a jealous girl!! I would have to knock a B out!!
I'm in no way judging or criticising, but doesn't that jealousy bother you? Why are you jealous?
Maybe jelous wasnt the right word. I dont like to share.0 -
This.NOPE!!! Im a jealous girl!! I would have to knock a B out!!
If you can make an open relationship work for you though, I'm sure it can be very fun.0
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