Lance Armstrong admits to cheating.
Replies
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It's nice trying to understand the other side of a topic.
Agreed, even if you *are* wrong!0 -
Just because he doesn't want to fight it anymore isn't admitting guilt. You can only fight so much before it takes the life out of you. I see nothing wrong with him giving up the fight. But it doesn't mean that he is admitting that he is guilty. I would hate to be a celebrity no you no privacy at all.
agreed.
Chances are he is guilty. But it's more of a press thing. He has a charity to protect and an image he wants to hold onto.
Plus theres a huge difference in having everyone know you use drugs, and actually admitting it. It can ruin your image.
Every fan of bodybuilding knows that they're all using, but you will never see one of the pros come out and admit it in the open, it's a media nightmare.0 -
My fault! Makes a change - usually I kill thread dead
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The problem with having drugs in sports is that it then becomes, who uses the best drugs. The competitions is no longer about the best athlete, but about the best scientist.
If you take them out entirely then the achievement is entirely down to people.
Obviously, it's practically impossible to wipe it out entirely, but to say it's not worth trying because people will still do it is like saying it's not worth trying to get rid of racism because some people will still be racist...0 -
I dont think he gives a **** about the tour de france..he's all about cancer and charity and i'm sure he wants that to be his legacy, not riding bikes0
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Probably 99% of pro athletes use some sort of enhancement "formulas."0
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The problem with having drugs in sports is that it then becomes, who uses the best drugs. The competitions is no longer about the best athlete, but about the best scientist.
This is already the case.
It's who can use the best drugs, who can get undetectable drugs, who can avoid drug tests. etc.0 -
I think it's very sad that -- WHOEVER IT IS -- the media, the other athletes, I don't know -- can't just let an awesome guy be awesome, they have to go digging, and digging, and digging, trying to find something to nail the awesome guy on.
Whether he did or didn't, the play for sensationalism kills me, as does the screaming hypocrisy in picking this one guy out of the hundreds of others who have done well in various races.
The difference? Lance was AWESOME and now he's paying for it.
An article:
http://ideas.time.com/2012/10/12/lance-armstrong-had-little-choice-but-to-dope/0 -
The problem with having drugs in sports is that it then becomes, who uses the best drugs. The competitions is no longer about the best athlete, but about the best scientist.
This is already the case.
It's who can use the best drugs, who can get undetectable drugs, who can avoid drug tests. etc.
If that is the case, then that is a crappy situation to be in. I don't believe it to be the case. Maybe in American Football and Baseball it may be, but not in all sports.0 -
I bet he drank Diet Coke.0
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If that is the case, then that is a crappy situation to be in. I don't believe it to be the case. Maybe in American Football and Baseball it may be, but not in all sports.
bodybuilding.
soccer.
sprinting.
weightlifting.
powerlifting.
cycling.0 -
I bet he drank Diet Coke.
thats definitely cheating.0 -
I dont think he gives a **** about the tour de france..he's all about cancer and charity and i'm sure he wants that to be his legacy, not riding bikes
his legacy was built upon the foundation of him riding a bike really well, winning more than any man ever has. to say he doesn't care about that is a little short-sighted.
and, it is worth considering that some medical folks have said that if he was, indeed, taking what he seems to have been taking, that very well could have been what gave him cancer in the first place.
drugs made lance great.
drugs made lance sick.
drugs made lance great again.0 -
If that is the case, then that is a crappy situation to be in. I don't believe it to be the case. Maybe in American Football and Baseball it may be, but not in all sports.
bodybuilding.
soccer.
sprinting.
weightlifting.
powerlifting.
cycling.
[/quote
bodybuilding has clean categories as it is known and accepted that those who compete at the highest levels take steroids
cycling is the subject of this conversation and the instigation for comments against drug use. Clearly they used it or we wouldn't be having this conversation. But look at times recently which can't match those set during the early 2000s. Suggests non-use.
same for athletics - there are lots of records still waiting to be broken because of the old athletes using. suggests current non-use
Weightlifting and powerlifting are basically the same sport which you are doubling up on to make your list look longer.
You list soccer but where is the evidence of this?0 -
bodybuilding has clean categories as it is known and accepted that those who compete at the highest levels take steroids
cycling is the subject of this conversation and the instigation for comments against drug use. Clearly they used it or we wouldn't be having this conversation. But look at times recently which can't match those set during the early 2000s. Suggests non-use.
same for athletics - there are lots of records still waiting to be broken because of the old athletes using. suggests current non-use
Weightlifting and powerlifting are basically the same sport which you are doubling up on to make your list look longer.
You list soccer but where is the evidence of this?
He meant olympic weightlifting vs powerlifting (I assume). The fact that records haven't been broken yet is not proof that they aren't using anymore (Klokov and his partner are good examples, they almost definitely tested positive and didn't go to the olympics because of it). The fact that there's a 'clean' category also doesn't really prove anything, those people fail tests too.
Just google steroid use in soccer. It's arguably not as rampant as in other sports, but players at the top levels are always looking for ways to gain an edge. The same can be said about American Football, Rugby, Wrestling, Martial Arts, Swimming, or any other sport where money comes into play (and even some where it doesn't). As long as you're paying people to perform, folks will try to find ways to do better. And at lower levels as long as it's a competition that folks care about, there can and will be cheating.0 -
He meant olympic weightlifting vs powerlifting (I assume). The fact that records haven't been broken yet is not proof that they aren't using anymore (Klokov and his partner are good examples, they almost definitely tested positive and didn't go to the olympics because of it). The fact that there's a 'clean' category also doesn't really prove anything, those people fail tests too.
Just google steroid use in soccer. It's arguably not as rampant as in other sports, but players at the top levels are always looking for ways to gain an edge. The same can be said about American Football, Rugby, Wrestling, Martial Arts, Swimming, or any other sport where money comes into play (and even some where it doesn't). As long as you're paying people to perform, folks will try to find ways to do better. And at lower levels as long as it's a competition that folks care about, there can and will be cheating.
This.
Olympic weightlifting and powerlifting are two different sports. That's like saying football and rugby are the same.
A huge portion of the Mexican soccer team tested positive within the last couple years.
It's in all sports.
"Natural" bodybuilding is a joke. Look at Layne Norton....the top guys who are "natural" are clearly using.0 -
bodybuilding has clean categories as it is known and accepted that those who compete at the highest levels take steroids
cycling is the subject of this conversation and the instigation for comments against drug use. Clearly they used it or we wouldn't be having this conversation. But look at times recently which can't match those set during the early 2000s. Suggests non-use.
same for athletics - there are lots of records still waiting to be broken because of the old athletes using. suggests current non-use
Weightlifting and powerlifting are basically the same sport which you are doubling up on to make your list look longer.
You list soccer but where is the evidence of this?
He meant olympic weightlifting vs powerlifting (I assume). The fact that records haven't been broken yet is not proof that they aren't using anymore (Klokov and his partner are good examples, they almost definitely tested positive and didn't go to the olympics because of it). The fact that there's a 'clean' category also doesn't really prove anything, those people fail tests too.
Just google steroid use in soccer. It's arguably not as rampant as in other sports, but players at the top levels are always looking for ways to gain an edge. The same can be said about American Football, Rugby, Wrestling, Martial Arts, Swimming, or any other sport where money comes into play (and even some where it doesn't). As long as you're paying people to perform, folks will try to find ways to do better. And at lower levels as long as it's a competition that folks care about, there can and will be cheating.
There may be cases of it, but that is far from saying it is prevalent.
I stand by my point that just because some are using, that isn't a case to legalise it for everyone. Some people commit crimes and yet we don't feel the need to legalise that.0 -
He meant olympic weightlifting vs powerlifting (I assume). The fact that records haven't been broken yet is not proof that they aren't using anymore (Klokov and his partner are good examples, they almost definitely tested positive and didn't go to the olympics because of it). The fact that there's a 'clean' category also doesn't really prove anything, those people fail tests too.
Just google steroid use in soccer. It's arguably not as rampant as in other sports, but players at the top levels are always looking for ways to gain an edge. The same can be said about American Football, Rugby, Wrestling, Martial Arts, Swimming, or any other sport where money comes into play (and even some where it doesn't). As long as you're paying people to perform, folks will try to find ways to do better. And at lower levels as long as it's a competition that folks care about, there can and will be cheating.
This.
Olympic weightlifting and powerlifting are two different sports. That's like saying football and rugby are the same.
A huge portion of the Mexican soccer team tested positive within the last couple years.
It's in all sports.
"Natural" bodybuilding is a joke. Look at Layne Norton....the top guys who are "natural" are clearly using.
A huge portion of ONE team tested positive...I don't see how that scales up to it being prevalent across the whole sport.....
Layne Norton is debatable. His physique is far from unattainable naturally. 700lb deadlift however is massive for a natty. Who knows.
Also between olympic lifting/powerlifting. The point is the same people compete across both disciplines, therefore if someone juices in one sport, they are clearly juicing for both. You won't find a professional footballer playing rugby.0 -
There may be cases of it, but that is far from saying it is prevalent.
I stand by my point that just because some are using, that isn't a case to legalise it for everyone. Some people commit crimes and yet we don't feel the need to legalise that.
I guarantee you every single professional player with the means is on a vast array of supplements. The reason there isn't as much illegal performance enhancing usage is two fold
A) The benefits aren't as readily apparent as in other sports
It isn't screened as extensively as in other sports
Crimes should be illegal because they hurt other people. Legalizing performance enhancing drug use in sports would go a long way towards making those practices safer than what's being done today (and I think the argument that 'natural' folks lose out is unwarranted because at the performance advantage having money will always be a tremendous advantage in the sport, drug use or no, and because a lot of the people you think are natural probably aren't really natural anyhow). You don't necessarily have to agree with that stance, but I think it separates this discussion from that of legalizing other crimes. My main point was that denying these accusations (valid or not) is understandable given the stigma surrounding the practice. And while cheating in this fashion might not be the honorable thing to do, I think it's reasonable to recognize why such behavior occured in the first place.0 -
A huge portion of ONE team tested positive...I don't see how that scales up to it being prevalent across the whole sport.....
Layne Norton is debatable. His physique is far from unattainable naturally. 700lb deadlift however is massive for a natty. Who knows.
Also between olympic lifting/powerlifting. The point is the same people compete across both disciplines, therefore if someone juices in one sport, they are clearly juicing for both. You won't find a professional footballer playing rugby.
I was just using that team as an example. Many others use as well. I'm not saying steroid use is rampant in soccer, but it does occur on a regular basis.
I don't think Layne is even debatable. Seems like a nice guy, but like Lance, he just doesn't want to admit to his obvious drug useage because it would ruin his image.
Oly lifting and powerlifting are completely different sports and only a handful of people compete across both disciplines, and even fewer at the top level.0 -
Seen this and had to order one. :bigsmile:
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There may be cases of it, but that is far from saying it is prevalent.
I stand by my point that just because some are using, that isn't a case to legalise it for everyone. Some people commit crimes and yet we don't feel the need to legalise that.
I guarantee you every single professional player with the means is on a vast array of supplements. The reason there isn't as much illegal performance enhancing usage is two fold
A) The benefits aren't as readily apparent as in other sports It isn't screened as extensively as in other sports
Crimes should be illegal because they hurt other people. Legalizing performance enhancing drug use in sports would go a long way towards making those practices safer than what's being done today (and I think the argument that 'natural' folks lose out is unwarranted because at the performance advantage having money will always be a tremendous advantage in the sport, drug use or no, and because a lot of the people you think are natural probably aren't really natural anyhow). You don't necessarily have to agree with that stance, but I think it separates this discussion from that of legalizing other crimes. My main point was that denying these accusations (valid or not) is understandable given the stigma surrounding the practice. And while cheating in this fashion might not be the honorable thing to do, I think it's reasonable to recognize why such behavior occured in the first place.
I understand about the safety issues, and perhaps the crime comparison was a bit flippant, but I still think it falls under the same category as match fixing for example. It goes on, but we still punish people. The matches are equally as exciting, or even more so with more goals etc.0 -
He hasn't admitted to cheating he's just sick of the accusations ... I.e. meaning even after all his achievements and all he's endured he hasn't recieved an ounce of respect. I commend him for stepping down it's time someone else step in the limelight. But to lose all his achievements and hard work... man it is a sick world out there what people would do to ruin someone's image.0
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He hasn't admitted to cheating he's just sick of the accusations ...
More likely he's unable to defend himself because he's a cheater who has been caught, and the evidence is incontrovertible, so he's stopped trying. But he's spun things to try to make it look like he's the victim. But he's not the victim, he's the liar and cheater. Honest riders are the victims here. As are the fans of the sport.I.e. meaning even after all his achievements and all he's endured he hasn't recieved an ounce of respect. I commend him for stepping down it's time someone else step in the limelight. But to lose all his achievements and hard work... man it is a sick world out there what people would do to ruin someone's image.
He deserves no respect because he cheated and lied about it.. He deserves to keep NONE of his medals because his achievements were the hollow result of cheating.
It's a sick world that he was able to delude so many for so long. It's a sick world because despite the apparent evidence, people still want to give him a pass.
(Just another take on it.)0 -
http://www.txwd.uscourts.gov/opinions/cases/Armstrong_USA_A12CV606SS.pdf
The conclusion is interesting.0 -
One of Lance's former teammates Levi Leipheimer was fired from his current team today.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/16/levi-leipheimer-cyclist-fired-doping-admission/
Taken from Velo News-
As one of 11 former Armstrong teammates to testify before the USADA investigators, Leipheimer has admitted to using performance enhancing drugs and methods between 1999 and 2007 while riding for Saturn, U.S. Postal Service, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner and Astana. Lefevere last week told VeloNews that Leipheimer only informed him of his upcoming admission and outing by USADA hours before the news hit.
“He called me one hour before the statement was released,” Lefevere said. “He never told us anything before we signed him and nothing at all this year. It’s a big mess. The easiest thing would be to say, ‘end of story.’ Many will defend him. We will have to see what our board and sponsors say. I don’t think it’s a big mess for us. It’s clear it’s all about the past.”0 -
what a scumbag0
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what a scumbag
lol0 -
.... what?!!?!? a celebrity cheated?!?!!?!
My thoughts exactly. He used to be an inspiration to me for many reasons, the past couple of years, not so much. His true colors have shown not only through this debate but also his personal life. I'm glad they are stripping him of his medals, he doesn't deserve them since he continuously lied about it for so long.0
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