why do people care that someone is fat?

honkytonks85

Can't really say but a lot of "fat" people that I met always think everyone's looking down at them for some reason when it's simply not the case.

You can see where I got the 'denying that fat people get discriminated against' bit from

And no matter how many links I've posted that do establish fat discrimination and bias you are suggesting that it's all just equal, and everybody cops it, fat people aren't any more discriminated against than a normal sized person?
Are you serious? And I'm the one who is tunnel visioned?

jayche

Can't really say but a lot of "fat" people that I met always think everyone's looking down at them for some reason when it's simply not the case.

You can see where I got the 'denying that fat people get discriminated against' bit from

And no matter how many links I've posted that do establish fat discrimination and bias you are suggesting that it's all just equal, and everybody cops it, fat people aren't any more discriminated against than a normal sized person?
Are you serious? And I'm the one who is tunnel visioned?

You're tunnel visioned because you're so pissed at a misunderstanding of the first sentence that you fail to read the first four words in the next one.

Also note that I'm not the one who originally called you tunnel-visioned. Stop putting words in my mouth.

futuresize6

I agree

honkytonks85

Can't really say but a lot of "fat" people that I met always think everyone's looking down at them for some reason when it's simply not the case.

You can see where I got the 'denying that fat people get discriminated against' bit from

And no matter how many links I've posted that do establish fat discrimination and bias you are suggesting that it's all just equal, and everybody cops it, fat people aren't any more discriminated against than a normal sized person?
Are you serious? And I'm the one who is tunnel visioned?

You're tunnel visioned because you're so pissed at a misunderstanding of the first sentence you fail to read the next four words in the next one.

I read the wording. Your entire post still suggested that fat and skinny people have 'equal amounts of discrimination' and fat people are just more sensitive to it. Yet time and time again I have proved this is not the case by showing evidence of fat discrimination in society.

Not only that, but even though I've agreed many times now that other forms of discrimination not only exist but are big issues in society, not once have any of you admitted that fat discrimination is an issue and it's not just fat people being overly sensitive.

upgetupgetup

You must feel a bit ganged up on, so I'm hesitating to add to that feeling. But I want to invite you to reread your own words:

"When I was saying that they don't face daily discrimination, I wasn't referring to Muslims or other types of racism etc."

So who were you referring to, then? Who is excluded from that vision? Not just in your example, but in daily life?

The world isn't just divided into 'thin' and 'fat' people. Many, MANY people experience systematic exclusion, and indeed violence, and even organized violence, on the basis of social categorizations. And few of those categorizations can be as readily addressed (by individuals, anyway) as overweight. Not that weight loss is easy, it's not. But try not being gay, female, indigenous, Muslim, "etc".

jayche

I read the wording. Your entire post still suggested that fat and skinny people have 'equal amounts of discrimination' and fat people are just more sensitive to it. Yet time and time again I have proved this is not the case by showing evidence of fat discrimination in society.

Not only that, but even though I've agreed many times now that other forms of discrimination not only exist but are big issues in society, not once have any of you admitted that fat discrimination is an issue and it's not just fat people being overly sensitive.

It's been stated in this thread that discrimination is an issue... fat discrimination would fall under discrimination.

Also I'm curious, did you even read your own links?

For instance...
From: http://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news35941.html

"Obesity may constitute a chronic stressful state, which in turn can cause significant physiological dysfunction. Such dysfunction would then predispose individuals to depressed mood and associated symptoms

...overweight - often experience weight-related stigma and discrimination, and consequently present with symptoms of low self esteem, low self worth, and guilt.

This link would actually help my observation that "fat" people seem to be more sensitive to every day discrimination.

honkytonks85

You must feel a bit ganged up on, so I'm hesitating to add to that feeling. But I want to invite you to reread your own words:

"When I was saying that they don't face daily discrimination, I wasn't referring to Muslims or other types of racism etc."

So who were you referring to, then? Who is excluded from that vision? Not just in your example, but in daily life?

The world isn't just divided into 'thin' and 'fat' people. Many, MANY people experience systematic exclusion, and indeed violence, and even organized violence, on the basis of social categorizations. And few of those categorizations can be as readily addressed (by individuals, anyway) as overweight. Not that weight loss is easy, it's not. But try not being gay, female, indigenous, Muslim, "etc".

FYI, I don't really feel ganged up on.

Again, I was referring to the original poster that 'fat and skinny people' get discriminated against equally or that *everybody* gets discriminated against. Which is true, I'm sure everyone has been discriminated against at one point or another. However, fat people face serious constant discrimination whereas other people do not. Not everybody is discriminated against on a daily basis the way fat people are. And I'd say Muslims probably face a fair bit of discrimination on a daily basis, it's a serious issue. And in some parts of the US, there's probably a lot of discrimination against African Americans. In Australia, discrimination against the indigenous population is a serious issue. I'd say a Caucasian male or female of normal body size in my country is not discriminated against on a daily basis.

Seriously though, what if this person said 'well black people are just being sensitive, cause EVERYBODY gets discriminated against'.. would you agree with that statement? Let's face it. Discrimination is worse for some than others, and fat people fall into that category.

kimosabe1

I don't say ANYTHING to anyone because people are jealous!

upgetupgetup

You must feel a bit ganged up on, so I'm hesitating to add to that feeling. But I want to invite you to reread your own words:

"When I was saying that they don't face daily discrimination, I wasn't referring to Muslims or other types of racism etc."

So who were you referring to, then? Who is excluded from that vision? Not just in your example, but in daily life?

The world isn't just divided into 'thin' and 'fat' people. Many, MANY people experience systematic exclusion, and indeed violence, and even organized violence, on the basis of social categorizations. And few of those categorizations can be as readily addressed (by individuals, anyway) as overweight. Not that weight loss is easy, it's not. But try not being gay, female, indigenous, Muslim, "etc".

FYI, I don't really feel ganged up on.

Again, I was referring to the original poster that 'fat and skinny people' get discriminated against equally or that *everybody* gets discriminated against. Which is true, I'm sure everyone has been discriminated against at one point or another. However, fat people face serious constant discrimination whereas other people do not. Not everybody is discriminated against on a daily basis the way fat people are. And I'd say Muslims probably face a fair bit of discrimination on a daily basis, it's a serious issue. And in some parts of the US, there's probably a lot of discrimination against African Americans. In Australia, discrimination against the indigenous population is a serious issue. I'd say a Caucasian male or female of normal body size in my country is not discriminated against on a daily basis.

Seriously though, what if this person said 'well black people are just being sensitive, cause EVERYBODY gets discriminated against'.. would you agree with that statement? Let's face it. Discrimination is worse for some than others, and fat people fall into that category.

Ok, this is what I thought might be behind what I called 'tunnel-visioned'. What's happened to the Australian, Canadian, and American indigenous people is rightly called by many social scientists GENOCIDE. There's what amounts to ideological war around Islams, Islamicisms, and Muslims all over the world (and I mean in Western countries), to supplement the actual ones going on. Around black Americans, jesus, look at Hurricane Katrina. These are not just 'issues'. I'm sorry you were hurt so much in life,
but it takes ****ing balls to compare being overweight to those realities.

jayche

Well I just finished reading all your links like you asked, here is my take on them.

http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v32/n6/full/ijo200822a.html - Data was collected by survey, could support my observations.

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news35941.html - Supports my observations.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13698575.2010.540648? - Irrelevant to the argument, covers sensationalism in Australian report about the consequences (mainly cardiovascular disease) of being overweight.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jan04/size.aspx - Interesting study, could possibly support your argument but we are not children, our mental capacity/maturity is far beyond a child's.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1369-7625.2011.00699.x/abstract - This is about obesity and healthcare.

http://*kitten*.sagepub.com/content/22/3/290.abstract - This is a collection of narratives/interviews and the like (which you can't even see), either way all content within it is completely subjective. Also fairly irrelevant to the point you're trying to get across.

honkytonks85

You must feel a bit ganged up on, so I'm hesitating to add to that feeling. But I want to invite you to reread your own words:

"When I was saying that they don't face daily discrimination, I wasn't referring to Muslims or other types of racism etc."

So who were you referring to, then? Who is excluded from that vision? Not just in your example, but in daily life?

The world isn't just divided into 'thin' and 'fat' people. Many, MANY people experience systematic exclusion, and indeed violence, and even organized violence, on the basis of social categorizations. And few of those categorizations can be as readily addressed (by individuals, anyway) as overweight. Not that weight loss is easy, it's not. But try not being gay, female, indigenous, Muslim, "etc".

FYI, I don't really feel ganged up on.

Again, I was referring to the original poster that 'fat and skinny people' get discriminated against equally or that *everybody* gets discriminated against. Which is true, I'm sure everyone has been discriminated against at one point or another. However, fat people face serious constant discrimination whereas other people do not. Not everybody is discriminated against on a daily basis the way fat people are. And I'd say Muslims probably face a fair bit of discrimination on a daily basis, it's a serious issue. And in some parts of the US, there's probably a lot of discrimination against African Americans. In Australia, discrimination against the indigenous population is a serious issue. I'd say a Caucasian male or female of normal body size in my country is not discriminated against on a daily basis.

Seriously though, what if this person said 'well black people are just being sensitive, cause EVERYBODY gets discriminated against'.. would you agree with that statement? Let's face it. Discrimination is worse for some than others, and fat people fall into that category.

Ok, this is what I thought might be behind what I called 'tunnel-visioned'. What's happened to the Australian, Canadian, and American indigenous people is rightly called by many social scientists GENOCIDE. There's what amounts to ideological war around Islams, Islamicisms, and Muslims all over the world (and I mean in Western countries), to supplement the actual ones going on. Around black Americans, jesus, look at Hurricane Katrina. These are not just 'issues'. I'm sorry you were hurt so much in life,
but it takes ****ing balls to compare being overweight to those realities.

Again, you're misinterpreting me completely. Please calm down first and think rationally. Can you point to where I was comparing the two in DEGREES of discrimination? Of course there is no comparison. You're just putting words into my mouth.

All I asked is for you to consider the original statement directed at black people instead of fat people. You can't seriously suggest that all people are equally discriminated against. To seriously say that, you would have to be completely blind and oblivious to reality. We are talking about *daily* discrimination here, workplace discrimination, social discrimination...

Well I just finished reading all your links like you asked, here is my take on them.

Okay, so fat people might be sensitive to discrimination. Those links also talked about actual weight bias that is demonstrated through research. Are you still denying that fat discrimination is not an issue? Please tell me you aren't.

Can you seriously tell me after reading this data http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v32/n6/full/ijo200822a.html that there is no fat discrimination, that everybody is just 'equally' discriminated against?

SilverLotusGirl

I care in a sympathetic way.

This is true for me too but I don't bully anyone.

upgetupgetup

You must feel a bit ganged up on, so I'm hesitating to add to that feeling. But I want to invite you to reread your own words:

"When I was saying that they don't face daily discrimination, I wasn't referring to Muslims or other types of racism etc."

So who were you referring to, then? Who is excluded from that vision? Not just in your example, but in daily life?

The world isn't just divided into 'thin' and 'fat' people. Many, MANY people experience systematic exclusion, and indeed violence, and even organized violence, on the basis of social categorizations. And few of those categorizations can be as readily addressed (by individuals, anyway) as overweight. Not that weight loss is easy, it's not. But try not being gay, female, indigenous, Muslim, "etc".

FYI, I don't really feel ganged up on.

Again, I was referring to the original poster that 'fat and skinny people' get discriminated against equally or that *everybody* gets discriminated against. Which is true, I'm sure everyone has been discriminated against at one point or another. However, fat people face serious constant discrimination whereas other people do not. Not everybody is discriminated against on a daily basis the way fat people are. And I'd say Muslims probably face a fair bit of discrimination on a daily basis, it's a serious issue. And in some parts of the US, there's probably a lot of discrimination against African Americans. In Australia, discrimination against the indigenous population is a serious issue. I'd say a Caucasian male or female of normal body size in my country is not discriminated against on a daily basis.

Seriously though, what if this person said 'well black people are just being sensitive, cause EVERYBODY gets discriminated against'.. would you agree with that statement? Let's face it. Discrimination is worse for some than others, and fat people fall into that category.

Ok, this is what I thought might be behind what I called 'tunnel-visioned'. What's happened to the Australian, Canadian, and American indigenous people is rightly called by many social scientists GENOCIDE. There's what amounts to ideological war around Islams, Islamicisms, and Muslims all over the world (and I mean in Western countries), to supplement the actual ones going on. Around black Americans, jesus, look at Hurricane Katrina. These are not just 'issues'. I'm sorry you were hurt so much in life,
but it takes ****ing balls to compare being overweight to those realities.

Again, you're misinterpreting me completely. Please calm down first and think rationally. Can you point to where I was comparing the two in DEGREES of discrimination? Of course there is no comparison. You're just putting words into my mouth.

All I asked is for you to consider the original statement directed at black people instead of fat people. You can't seriously suggest that all people are equally discriminated against. To seriously say that, you would have to be completely blind and oblivious to reality. We are talking about *daily* discrimination here, workplace discrimination, social discrimination...

First, I understand what discrimination and bias mean.

Second, I'm not emotional, I'm entirely rational. I actually think it's impossible to fairly weigh experiences of discrimination against each other, but if you insist on doing so, I feel obliged to point out that while discrimination and bias against overweight people is real, an overweight individual can always lose weight. It is not an immutable fact of being for any individual's personhood, for 99.99% of people. While the bias DOES exist (no argument there, at all) there's a comparatively easy way out of it for any given individual, unlike the constraints experienced by other groups. You've dismissed the other forms mentioned as 'issues' occurring in pockets here and there, and minimized a long history of legal and economic oppressions, which legacies are robust today, in ways that are very clear (and ways that are not).

Third, people accuse people who've experienced discrimination of over-sensitivity all the time. If sensitivity does exist in anyone who's been dealt a ****ty hand from a stacked deck, it's probably justified.

Finally, really and truly, I have both empathy and sympathy for the kind of bullying you mean and have known. I've been overweight, and experienced bullying at a crucial developmental time (around other things), and been knocked for a loop more than once. I do not mean to invalidate your experience or its origins, but some of your comments in this thread are kind of mindblowing, honestly.

As to the original question, I agree that part of the hostility (or even disgust, expressed by one poster and probably thought by others) is around fear, and a conflict between a beauty ideal that moves further away from natural processes at the same rate that our reality distorts them.

firstsip

Well, quote tags have gotten so jacked in this thread, so this is @honkytonk85:

What what what. It's like you have not read what jayche or I said to you, and you didn't realize what you said yourself. No, I'm not referring to just things on the internet... I just... how does one even converse with you when you literally see three of six words, but draw your own conclusions?

So, here is... again... me highlighting specific quotes of yours:

I have NEVER seen ANY of this happen to a person who is a regular weight. Sorry for being so 'sensitive' though, I should have just kept my depression to myself.

You said you, anecdotally, had not seen this happen. Immediately people pointed out that this happens daily to MANY people at NORMAL weights, but in sexual, racial, reigious senses. You also immediately finished this statement with a passive-aggressive statement. Not conductive to mature discussion.

Yep, people can be racist and people are discriminated against for other reasons than weight. I am just saying comparatively there is a lot more discrimination against fat people versus people of a normal weight.

Like I said in an earlier follow up to you, discrimination is not some cut and try "skinny" vs. "obese." People of different races, backgrounds, sexes, orientations, etc. are obviously at normal weight, and experience things you did on a daily basis. You've since followed up with, "I just meant in terms of obese people get it more than skinny people," and again people said, "Well, thin people also face some rough things, and regardless of who gets it more, you seem under the impression that obese people are the most ostracized group on the planet."

Unlike racism, people justify fat discrimination with stuff like 'well, they are a burden on society' or 'they're just weak and lacking in self control therefore it's OK'.

People use these exact principles to justify racism, sexism, etc. This demonstrates a lack of understanding of how discrimination works on your part... maybe a naivety, perhaps?

I do not believe for a second this kind of **** happens regularly to slim people. Sorry.

1. You're not sorry (again, the passive aggression!). 2. This does happen to slim people... who happen to be black or Muslim or gay or a woman... etc. etc.

But it's not a daily thing, and generally people who are of a normal weight and who are not living in a society with a lot of racism etc. do not have their looks define them.

Again, a demonstration that you're not quite grasping the realities of discrimination outside of your position of, "Well, I was depressed by how people treated me when I was obese."

Errr.. can you please point to where in any of my posts did I say no other group faces discrimination?

This is called a strawman. No one said this; what everyone said was in response to the quotes seen above.

these are not socially acceptable forms of discrimination.

I'll talk about this soon.

Anyway, this is getting circular and I need to get going. I can't be bothered arguing anymore, skinny people get teased more than fat people, whatever.

Passive aggression, again. And who made this a circular argument...?

But then again, when I hear about terms like "hogging" that originate in US fraternities, I think differently (hogging is apparently where men make a sport of sleeping with fat women).

This is when I realized that you may not grasp what the word "discrimination" means. Being kept from a job purely on looks? Yes, discrimination. Heavier women consensually agreeing to have sex with men that probably don't care about them? That's not discrimination. Being taunted from a car is not discrimination.

THOSE are things bullies do; bullying is not a great thing either, but discrimination is much larger than an insecure guy yelling out his window. Just the fact that you had earlier stated "socially acceptable discrimination" again highlights some tunnel vision of what actually happens to people of historically disenfranchised groups.

Um....

To the quote from someone else: "I don't think anyone's denying the bias against overweight people. It's the way you've compared it to other biases that comes across as tunnel-visioned. I'm not aware of any genocides of fat people."
Nice response. They very concisely pointed out that nowhere did anyone say there wasn't bias against overweight people, but that your comments (which I've quoted here for your perusal) were very much a, "I've had it worse than others" mentality.

You can see where I got the 'denying that fat people get discriminated against' bit from

You stated the first part to someone saying, "Can't really say but a lot of "fat" people that I met always think everyone's looking down at them for some reason when it's simply not the case," but then criticized jayche earlier as having used some of his own observations as evidence of discrimination on a racial scale. See here:

Except when I say it, I've actually got the evidence to back it up. It's not just "my observations".

There is so much evidence of racial discrimination for centuries, it's absolutely insulting to imply otherwise. Plus, like I said... so according to you, you "can see where I'm coming from" from a one sentence post on this thread about "fat people being looked down upon," but jayche's constant followup is just "his observations" and essentially doesn't count? You can't have your cake and eat it too here.

And no matter how many links I've posted that do establish fat discrimination and bias you are suggesting that it's all just equal, and everybody cops it, fat people aren't any more discriminated against than a normal sized person?
Are you serious? And I'm the one who is tunnel visioned?

Plus, you know, again... " fat people aren't any more discriminated against than a normal sized person." No where has any of your studies said that suddenly overweight people have become the new indigenous people, the new formerly enslaved people, the people to put in a concentration camp, or an internment camp, or the people that "hey they dressed this way, so they deserved it." Can an overweight person be in any of these groups? Of course, you yourself are a woman. However, you just keep coming across as, "No one has it worse than the obese." Bullying was the initial stance of this thread, YOU brought up discrimination, but then have essentially melded the two together?

Again, I was referring to the original poster that 'fat and skinny people' get discriminated against equally or that *everybody* gets discriminated against. Which is true, I'm sure everyone has been discriminated against at one point or another. However, fat people face serious constant discrimination whereas other people do not. Not everybody is discriminated against on a daily basis the way fat people are. And I'd say Muslims probably face a fair bit of discrimination on a daily basis, it's a serious issue. And in some parts of the US, there's probably a lot of discrimination against African Americans. In Australia, discrimination against the indigenous population is a serious issue. I'd say a Caucasian male or female of normal body size in my country is not discriminated against on a daily basis.

Seriously though, what if this person said 'well black people are just being sensitive, cause EVERYBODY gets discriminated against'.. would you agree with that statement? Let's face it. Discrimination is worse for some than others, and fat people fall into that category.

This statement, after everything you said earlier, after everything people said.... you even, in the same post, say "No one gets daily discrimination" than cite like three groups of people who do... then say, "But not as bad as the obese."

And I am literally only taking the time to do this to point out exactly WHY certain people bristled at your comments (and since more than two people have in this thread, why would you not consider that MAYBE you phrased things poorly, instead of launching into constant passive aggressive logical fallacies?). I sense the danger of you coming away from this whole discussion as, "See! People are just DENYING bad things happened to me" or "People are denying discrimination happens to obese people!" No, no one is saying that, and everyone has been beautifully specific why this isn't the case. Please see that this long winded discussion has come because you seem unaware of the meanings behind your very black or white semantics, and that--frankly--you seem unaware of the privilege you had, even as an obese woman. Yes, you faced discrimination if you were truly denied a job because of your weight. No, you did not face discrimination when people yelled at you or someone didn't let you into their house: that's called "bullying," what this thread (where even the OP changed her tune after her initial post) was supposed to be about.

ValerieMartini2Olives

I care in a sympathetic way.

That... and when I see someone who is REALLY fat, like REALLLLLY fat, I think to myself "WHY?? HOW??" I saw this woman the other day, probably around my age (I'm 28) who had to have been easily 350 pounds and her *kitten* was just so friggin' big, you could probably put a glass of water on it and it wouldn't fall off. Her thighs were just monstrous and bulgy everywhere. How does that happen?

Wow. Except for the age thing (add 10 years) you just discribed me before I started losing weight. And going by your ticker, with a starting weight of 300+, you weren't too far from it yourself, darlin. So you SHOULD be asking yourself WHY?? HOW??

I know why I hit 300 pounds. Because I had no clue whatsoever how badly I was eating and I had zero exercise. I decided to take stock of my life and do something about it. Unfortunately I can't lose weight now because I'm 7 months pregnant, but after the baby comes, I'm going to finish what I started.

ninerbuff

Just a note from my experience:

People who feel discriminated against because they are fat are usually people who think they are victims of circumstance. Yes while there are many that have legitimate health and hormonal reasons for being very overweight/obese, by in large most people who are very overweight/obese are because of choices they made for themselves. While this can't be said for children, once you're an adult, you have the ability make the decisions on the intake of food you eat, the exercise you do, and the company you keep.
As some have stated here, discrimination is part of reality. You could be "perfect" in every way and be discriminated against. So those who are fat and feeling discriminated against, get over it. You could lose all the weight you want and still be discriminated against.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

RLDeShazo

I care in a sympathetic way.

That... and when I see someone who is REALLY fat, like REALLLLLY fat, I think to myself "WHY?? HOW??" I saw this woman the other day, probably around my age (I'm 28) who had to have been easily 350 pounds and her *kitten* was just so friggin' big, you could probably put a glass of water on it and it wouldn't fall off. Her thighs were just monstrous and bulgy everywhere. How does that happen?

Wow. Except for the age thing (add 10 years) you just discribed me before I started losing weight. And going by your ticker, with a starting weight of 300+, you weren't too far from it yourself, darlin. So you SHOULD be asking yourself WHY?? HOW??

I know why I hit 300 pounds. Because I had no clue whatsoever how badly I was eating and I had zero exercise. I decided to take stock of my life and do something about it. Unfortunately I can't lose weight now because I'm 7 months pregnant, but after the baby comes, I'm going to finish what I started.

Wow. You got to over 300 pounds and you didn't have even a small clue that you were eating badly?? I was/am well aware that my eating habits are what got me to just shy of 400 pounds. I didn't care. I wanted to be this way. Being fat was safe.

Be careful in that glass house with all those rocks. You might hurt yourself.

honkytonks85

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honkytonks85

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firstsip

Good god.