Another Thought About Milk
Options
Replies
-
you've literally posted all the people who rail against me religiously. haha
i think we simply believe two ideologically opposite things when it comes to health and nutrition. I understand how they have much more credibility than me, but that actually doesn't inherently guarantee that they're correct - it's just more likely.
unfortunately, like I said, I don't think the scientific and medical communities at large have any incentive to do studies on these things that aren't funded by the industries that want the studies - which thus creates a conflict of interest. The government has a huge stake in the dairy, corn and meat industries doing well because they're a driving force in our economy, health be damned.
CoachReddy, I have nothing against you personally and I certainly don't seek to rail against anyone here. However, if you (or anyone else) posts misleading or false information about biology or physiology that I know to be incorrect I will make an effort to refute it, for the benefit of other posters who may not be trained (as scientists are) to make immediate sense of studies and their write-ups.
As for our incentives - science is funded in many ways and in some cases, companies and lobbies do sponsor their own research. However, most scientists are funded by impartial (and extremely competitive) research grants from government agencies of science and health. And studies that are sponsored by lobbies, pharmaceutical companies or otherwise are EXTREMELY closely scrutinised for bias. It's not a perfect system, but there is no conspiracy in scientific research.
There are a number of scientists like me on these boards (several of us are named by sunsnstatheart), and we are generally quite reasonable in the way we present our opinions. People who are not so circumspect (as you tend not to be, as I have noted above), are often the focus of our efforts to clarify what is being said.
But it's not personal. I have no time for vendettas.
and as I said, you do, and SHOULD have more credibility than me, and I respect the amount of work you've put into your profession and admire the fact that you're in here trying to help people with your knowledge - but there are plenty of scientists who would also agree with the positions I've suggested as well. Not all scientists agree, thus not all scientists are inherently correct by result of them simply being a scientist.0 -
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.0 -
Don't even try to school me.
I've been singing for half my life, and have been behind the scenes of the music industry for at least 6 years.
Aside from opera singers (and even then, Sarah Brightman smokes like a chimney), most professional singers don't do diddly squat besides suck on a lemon before a performance.
You don't even know who you're trying to school. Just stop while you're ahead.
And you don't know who you're trying to school, but I agree let's quit fighting because it's silly.
I have been singing my whole life and I am a classically trained singer with a degree in vocal performance. I have been in many musicals and operas.
No, you should not down a pint of milk an hour before you go onstage. However, drinking milk is not going to hurt your voice as long as you aren't lactose intolerant and don't drink it within a reasonable amount of time to singing.
Having said this, Sarah Brightman is possible the worst cited example of what a singer should be doing with their voice. She sounds like she smokes like a chimney. Just saying.0 -
you've literally posted all the people who rail against me religiously. haha
i think we simply believe two ideologically opposite things when it comes to health and nutrition. I understand how they have much more credibility than me, but that actually doesn't inherently guarantee that they're correct - it's just more likely.
unfortunately, like I said, I don't think the scientific and medical communities at large have any incentive to do studies on these things that aren't funded by the industries that want the studies - which thus creates a conflict of interest. The government has a huge stake in the dairy, corn and meat industries doing well because they're a driving force in our economy, health be damned.
CoachReddy, I have nothing against you personally and I certainly don't seek to rail against anyone here. However, if you (or anyone else) posts misleading or false information about biology or physiology that I know to be incorrect I will make an effort to refute it, for the benefit of other posters who may not be trained (as scientists are) to make immediate sense of studies and their write-ups.
As for our incentives - science is funded in many ways and in some cases, companies and lobbies do sponsor their own research. However, most scientists are funded by impartial (and extremely competitive) research grants from government agencies of science and health. And studies that are sponsored by lobbies, pharmaceutical companies or otherwise are EXTREMELY closely scrutinised for bias. It's not a perfect system, but there is no conspiracy in scientific research.
There are a number of scientists like me on these boards (several of us are named by sunsnstatheart), and we are generally quite reasonable in the way we present our opinions. People who are not so circumspect (as you tend not to be, as I have noted above), are often the focus of our efforts to clarify what is being said.
But it's not personal. I have no time for vendettas.
and as I said, you do, and SHOULD have more credibility than me, and I respect the amount of work you've put into your profession and admire the fact that you're in here trying to help people with your knowledge - but there are plenty of scientists who would also agree with the positions I've suggested as well. Not all scientists agree, thus not all scientists are inherently correct by result of them simply being a scientist.
:huh:
I don't think that she was saying that they were perfect and she has yet to actually chime in the discussion. Just correcting you on your attitude that everyone is out to get you, as well as putting out how research is conducted and reviewed.
Although, I would love to hear Robyn's point of view or expertise (if she is knowledgable in this area) if she's willing to do so :flowerforyou:0 -
0 -
Ok here's my two uneducated cents... soy milk is bad if you have thyroid issues and is also not always the best choice for men... almond milk could be bad if processed improperly. Improperly processed almonds contain a naturally occurring form of cyanide, not something I would like to drink. It's also bad if you have a nut allergy, and if you are against processed foods... it's a processed product, last I checked almonds do not have a lot of liquid hanging around. Rice milk..I think it taste bad (I recognize that that is a personal thing :-))and there's not a whole lot there nutritionally. However it might be the only thing you can tolerate. Cows milk... could have hormones, could have antibiotics, could be delicious, it is high in protein but bad if you have an allergy or intolerance, goats milk is also high in protein and easy to digest, but taste is an issue for some... I could go on. My point is that we each have a brain and we should use it... we each have a body and we should listen to it. Diet is not a one size fits all prospect. Weigh your choices and let others do the same. Personally I drink goats milk, but eat Greek yogurt, sour cream... and yes ice cream. That's my choice and what makes me feel good.
The end.0 -
Jollya, I've made a number of posts further up, but they're buried among the tit-for-tat!0
-
Bump0
-
.0
-
Don't even try to school me.
I've been singing for half my life, and have been behind the scenes of the music industry for at least 6 years.
Aside from opera singers (and even then, Sarah Brightman smokes like a chimney), most professional singers don't do diddly squat besides suck on a lemon before a performance.
You don't even know who you're trying to school. Just stop while you're ahead.
And you don't know who you're trying to school, but I agree let's quit fighting because it's silly.
I have been singing my whole life and I am a classically trained singer with a degree in vocal performance. I have been in many musicals and operas.
No, you should not down a pint of milk an hour before you go onstage. However, drinking milk is not going to hurt your voice as long as you aren't lactose intolerant and don't drink it within a reasonable amount of time to singing.
Having said this, Sarah Brightman is possible the worst cited example of what a singer should be doing with their voice. She sounds like she smokes like a chimney. Just saying.
totally. drinking milk at 9am when you've got an 8pm curtain will have no real effect, but I really did find that cutting down on my overall consumption of dairy did help keep my mucus thinner and my voice working better.
personal preference.
and yeah I'm the same way - classically trained, musical theatre actor in NYC, and I agree with you about Brightman. haha she's... she's somethin' special. :P0 -
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.0 -
absolutely plays a role, but studies have shown (look at the TED talks I listed) that when you take someone with heart disease who is in line for surgery, and has eaten a meat-heavy diet, and treat them with a plant based diet, it can not only slow and stop, but REVERSE the damage and the blockage in their arteries.
yes we're living longer, which causes more disease, but those diseases are often times preventable when certain nutrition is applied.
You are cherry picking research to support your own prejudices! A few posts back you claimed
"unfortunately, like I said, I don't think the scientific and medical communities at large have any incentive to do studies on these things that aren't funded by the industries that want the studies - which thus creates a conflict of interest. The government has a huge stake in the dairy, corn and meat industries doing well because they're a driving force in our economy, health be damned."0 -
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.
why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?0 -
absolutely plays a role, but studies have shown (look at the TED talks I listed) that when you take someone with heart disease who is in line for surgery, and has eaten a meat-heavy diet, and treat them with a plant based diet, it can not only slow and stop, but REVERSE the damage and the blockage in their arteries.
yes we're living longer, which causes more disease, but those diseases are often times preventable when certain nutrition is applied.
You are cherry picking research to support your own prejudices! A few posts back you claimed
"unfortunately, like I said, I don't think the scientific and medical communities at large have any incentive to do studies on these things that aren't funded by the industries that want the studies - which thus creates a conflict of interest. The government has a huge stake in the dairy, corn and meat industries doing well because they're a driving force in our economy, health be damned."
i said the medical and scientific communities at large don't have the incentive to do it, that doesn't mean some individual people don't do it anyway
edit: and all of us cherry-pick our research on these boards. we HAVE to pick articles and studies that support our views don't we?0 -
Jollya, I've made a number of posts further up, but they're buried among the tit-for-tat!
I'll go look again!
0 -
Are you really saying that any diet that involves removing foods is "neurotic" and "dysfunctional"??? Does this include low fat, paleo vegetarian, vegan? Gluten free? Those are very strong words to use IMO. I am aware that there is not a lot of research supporting the way I eat, but that does not make me brainwashed or misinformed. I agree that some people on special diets can be opinionated and pushy with their beliefs , but please do not paint us all with the same brush. I am quite capable of being unbiased and open minded Thankyou very much!Paleo, vegan or any diet that involves removing foods is really contributing to food neuroticism and that avoidance behavior can become acute and dysfunctional. One of the big problems is they can't help themselves but to look at biased literature or tag themselfs with like minded organizations or people, it's not a good place to be. in my opinion of course.0 -
Ok here's my two uneducated cents... soy milk is bad if you have thyroid issues and is also not always the best choice for men... almond milk could be bad if processed improperly. Improperly processed almonds contain a naturally occurring form of cyanide, not something I would like to drink. It's also bad if you have a nut allergy, and if you are against processed foods... it's a processed product, last I checked almonds do not have a lot of liquid hanging around. Rice milk..I think it taste bad (I recognize that that is a personal thing :-))and there's not a whole lot there nutritionally. However it might be the only thing you can tolerate. Cows milk... could have hormones, could have antibiotics, could be delicious, it is high in protein but bad if you have an allergy or intolerance, goats milk is also high in protein and easy to digest, but taste is an issue for some... I could go on. My point is that we each have a brain and we should use it... we each have a body and we should listen to it. Diet is not a one size fits all prospect. Weigh your choices and let others do the same. Personally I drink goats milk, but eat Greek yogurt, sour cream... and yes ice cream. That's my choice and what makes me feel good.
The end.
This is the best answer yet. I have thyroid problems, so soymilk is not so great for me. I am also allergic to nuts so almond milk is not so great for me. I am also allergic to cows milk, so that's out. I don't love or hate rice milk. I think goat's milk is delicious and hasn't seemed to have any negative side effects for me. But there are those who would argue that I should not drink goat's milk because humans are not "made to drink goat's milk" and all that jazz. Ima just do for me and youz guys should just do for you.0 -
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.
why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?
Because the diet industry regularly produces products that are of lower nutritional value. Compare milk, for example, against almond milk as was done above. The almond milk is synthetic and doesn't really compare favorably to real milk.0 -
WE'RE designed to eat certain foods - dairy is not among these foods.
Not true. Humans are fantastically successful because they are generalist omnivores - we eat everything. Including dairy. And if you want to get into a 'designed' debate, there is excellent evidence (referred to above), that natural selection has promoted the adult persistence of the expression of the gene that encodes the enzyme lactase, allowing humans to cleave milk sugar into usable glucose.
The passages I quoted from a couple of links suggested just this. That many evolved (over the past 7500 years) to be able to be lactose tolerant. And that especially in the Northern regions of Europe where they couldn't get Vitamin D so effectively because of lack of sunlight -that milk helped make up for the deficiency.
Honestly, the way I see it is if you like and are able to consume dairy, then I think it can definitely be a part of a healthy diet 0 -
The cultivation of milk, goats milk being the one consumed the most and its derivatives as a sustainable food source has been around a little longer than skinny cow or boca burgers was my point. At least Americans can get raw milk which is more than I can say here in Canada.
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.
why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 402 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 998 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions