Another Thought About Milk
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Ok here's my two uneducated cents... soy milk is bad if you have thyroid issues and is also not always the best choice for men... almond milk could be bad if processed improperly. Improperly processed almonds contain a naturally occurring form of cyanide, not something I would like to drink. It's also bad if you have a nut allergy, and if you are against processed foods... it's a processed product, last I checked almonds do not have a lot of liquid hanging around. Rice milk..I think it taste bad (I recognize that that is a personal thing :-))and there's not a whole lot there nutritionally. However it might be the only thing you can tolerate. Cows milk... could have hormones, could have antibiotics, could be delicious, it is high in protein but bad if you have an allergy or intolerance, goats milk is also high in protein and easy to digest, but taste is an issue for some... I could go on. My point is that we each have a brain and we should use it... we each have a body and we should listen to it. Diet is not a one size fits all prospect. Weigh your choices and let others do the same. Personally I drink goats milk, but eat Greek yogurt, sour cream... and yes ice cream. That's my choice and what makes me feel good.
The end.
This is the best answer yet. I have thyroid problems, so soymilk is not so great for me. I am also allergic to nuts so almond milk is not so great for me. I am also allergic to cows milk, so that's out. I don't love or hate rice milk. I think goat's milk is delicious and hasn't seemed to have any negative side effects for me. But there are those who would argue that I should not drink goat's milk because humans are not "made to drink goat's milk" and all that jazz. Ima just do for me and youz guys should just do for you.
Agree:)0 -
Ok here's my two uneducated cents... soy milk is bad if you have thyroid issues and is also not always the best choice for men... almond milk could be bad if processed improperly. Improperly processed almonds contain a naturally occurring form of cyanide, not something I would like to drink. It's also bad if you have a nut allergy, and if you are against processed foods... it's a processed product, last I checked almonds do not have a lot of liquid hanging around. Rice milk..I think it taste bad (I recognize that that is a personal thing :-))and there's not a whole lot there nutritionally. However it might be the only thing you can tolerate. Cows milk... could have hormones, could have antibiotics, could be delicious, it is high in protein but bad if you have an allergy or intolerance, goats milk is also high in protein and easy to digest, but taste is an issue for some... I could go on. My point is that we each have a brain and we should use it... we each have a body and we should listen to it. Diet is not a one size fits all prospect. Weigh your choices and let others do the same. Personally I drink goats milk, but eat Greek yogurt, sour cream... and yes ice cream. That's my choice and what makes me feel good.
The end.
This is the best answer yet. I have thyroid problems, so soymilk is not so great for me. I am also allergic to nuts so almond milk is not so great for me. I am also allergic to cows milk, so that's out. I don't love or hate rice milk. I think goat's milk is delicious and hasn't seemed to have any negative side effects for me. But there are those who would argue that I should not drink goat's milk because humans are not "made to drink goat's milk" and all that jazz. Ima just do for me and youz guys should just do for you.
I agree with you Lilong
This is the best answer yet 0 -
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.
why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?
Because the diet industry regularly produces products that are of lower nutritional value. Compare milk, for example, against almond milk as was done above. The almond milk is synthetic and doesn't really compare favorably to real milk.
this is true - if you buy things that scream "healthy" on the label... they're generally not.
I wouldn't say they're worse, though... just part of the same broken system.0 -
i said the medical and scientific communities at large don't have the incentive to do it, that doesn't mean some individual people don't do it anyway
edit: and all of us cherry-pick our research on these boards. we HAVE to pick articles and studies that support our views don't we?
Do we? I try to consider a range of studies from both sides or textbooks or review articles that have done the legwork for me, I form my opinions based on my research I try not to form an opinion then cherry pick study that supports that. It's nonsensical to dismiss the medical and scientific communities 'at large', more so when two people have pointed out that much research both in your own country and worldwide is NOT funded the way you imagine. How is it the studies from the UK on dairy concur with the studies coming out of the US? Is it those shapeshifting aliens that we all 'know' run our countries?
Be careful with anything that has an animal rights bent, too many militants in that field don't understand even basic science. Many moons ago I worked in research laboratories of a top UK university, my department did use some animals and the department next door had an animal house. Despite this a department a short distance away was the one regularly targeted by animal rights activists - NO animal house, NO animal work, all done on cell lines. All the activists needed to do to find this out was to read the research papers, but they were too blinded by their own prejudices and belief systems to see the truth. I've heard plenty of stories from other people within the medical and scientific communities of similar clangers.0 -
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.
why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?
Because the diet industry regularly produces products that are of lower nutritional value. Compare milk, for example, against almond milk as was done above. The almond milk is synthetic and doesn't really compare favorably to real milk.
this is true - if you buy things that scream "healthy" on the label... they're generally not.
I wouldn't say they're worse, though... just part of the same broken system.
What system is broken? The world wide scientific community? Don't you think you may be out of your expertise here?0 -
Don't even try to school me.
I've been singing for half my life, and have been behind the scenes of the music industry for at least 6 years.
Aside from opera singers (and even then, Sarah Brightman smokes like a chimney), most professional singers don't do diddly squat besides suck on a lemon before a performance.
You don't even know who you're trying to school. Just stop while you're ahead.
And you don't know who you're trying to school, but I agree let's quit fighting because it's silly.
I have been singing my whole life and I am a classically trained singer with a degree in vocal performance. I have been in many musicals and operas.
No, you should not down a pint of milk an hour before you go onstage. However, drinking milk is not going to hurt your voice as long as you aren't lactose intolerant and don't drink it within a reasonable amount of time to singing.
Having said this, Sarah Brightman is possible the worst cited example of what a singer should be doing with their voice. She sounds like she smokes like a chimney. Just saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny5H9GiVP_0
Smoking? That's not what a smokers voice sounds like to me...just sayin :P0 -
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.
why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?
Because the diet industry regularly produces products that are of lower nutritional value. Compare milk, for example, against almond milk as was done above. The almond milk is synthetic and doesn't really compare favorably to real milk.
this is true - if you buy things that scream "healthy" on the label... they're generally not.
I wouldn't say they're worse, though... just part of the same broken system.
What system is broken? The world wide scientific community? Don't you think you may be out of your expertise here?
no no no, just the American food system that needs to mass produce for 300 million people. to do that, they create more greenhouse gasses than the entire American transportation system, ranking themselves 2nd in factors that contribute to global warming, and the subsidies from the government keep unhealthy foods cheaper than healthy foods. If you don't think the nutritional system in America has huge gaping flaws, you haven't really looked into it much.
Now I will say that there aren't many good ways to fix the system short of simply eating less meat and drinking less dairy, which I know will never happen, but by eating these things in the tremendous quantities we do, we're not only taxing the healthcare system in this country, but we're also destroying the environment at the same time. It's pretty crazy.
EDIT: also the fact that profits are more important than peoples' health. that's part of the broken-ness.0 -
no no no, just the American food system that needs to mass produce for 300 million people. to do that, they create more greenhouse gasses than the entire American transportation system, ranking themselves 2nd in factors that contribute to global warming, and the subsidies from the government keep unhealthy foods cheaper than healthy foods. If you don't think the nutritional system in America has huge gaping flaws, you haven't really looked into it much.
Now I will say that there aren't many good ways to fix the system short of simply eating less meat and drinking less dairy, which I know will never happen, but by eating these things in the tremendous quantities we do, we're not only taxing the healthcare system in this country, but we're also destroying the environment at the same time. It's pretty crazy.
EDIT: also the fact that profits are more important than peoples' health. that's part of the broken-ness.
you really have drunk all the Kool-aid.
have fun in tinfoil alley.
i'm out.0 -
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.
why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?
Because the diet industry regularly produces products that are of lower nutritional value. Compare milk, for example, against almond milk as was done above. The almond milk is synthetic and doesn't really compare favorably to real milk.
this is true - if you buy things that scream "healthy" on the label... they're generally not.
I wouldn't say they're worse, though... just part of the same broken system.
What system is broken? The world wide scientific community? Don't you think you may be out of your expertise here?
no no no, just the American food system that needs to mass produce for 300 million people. to do that, they create more greenhouse gasses than the entire American transportation system, ranking themselves 2nd in factors that contribute to global warming, and the subsidies from the government keep unhealthy foods cheaper than healthy foods. If you don't think the nutritional system in America has huge gaping flaws, you haven't really looked into it much.
Now I will say that there aren't many good ways to fix the system short of simply eating less meat and drinking less dairy, which I know will never happen, but by eating these things in the tremendous quantities we do, we're not only taxing the healthcare system in this country, but we're also destroying the environment at the same time. It's pretty crazy.
EDIT: also the fact that profits are more important than peoples' health. that's part of the broken-ness.
Okay, this makes me think that you are ideologically opposed to meat and dairy based on environmental reasons and that perhaps your nutritional arguments stem from that belief. Would that be accurate?
As for the "huge gaping flaws" in America's nutritional system, I believe those have more to do with people failing to eat sensible diets than anything else. We have one of the cheapest food supplies in the world and that includes fruit and vegetables. Try living in some other countries that are not as blessed with an abundance of arable land and you will understand what I mean.0 -
The more some people talk, the more I LOL...0 -
Ever heard of the farm to fork philosophy? Take your kids or if you don't have kids take someones kids to a farm and become aware of where our food comes from....it may not help you but it may help the kids.
Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.
Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.
Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.
Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.
disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.
I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.
totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.
something's gotta give.
why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?
Because the diet industry regularly produces products that are of lower nutritional value. Compare milk, for example, against almond milk as was done above. The almond milk is synthetic and doesn't really compare favorably to real milk.
this is true - if you buy things that scream "healthy" on the label... they're generally not.
I wouldn't say they're worse, though... just part of the same broken system.
What system is broken? The world wide scientific community? Don't you think you may be out of your expertise here?
no no no, just the American food system that needs to mass produce for 300 million people. to do that, they create more greenhouse gasses than the entire American transportation system, ranking themselves 2nd in factors that contribute to global warming, and the subsidies from the government keep unhealthy foods cheaper than healthy foods. If you don't think the nutritional system in America has huge gaping flaws, you haven't really looked into it much.
Now I will say that there aren't many good ways to fix the system short of simply eating less meat and drinking less dairy, which I know will never happen, but by eating these things in the tremendous quantities we do, we're not only taxing the healthcare system in this country, but we're also destroying the environment at the same time. It's pretty crazy.
EDIT: also the fact that profits are more important than peoples' health. that's part of the broken-ness.0 -
WE'RE designed to eat certain foods - dairy is not among these foods.
Not true. Humans are fantastically successful because they are generalist omnivores - we eat everything. Including dairy. And if you want to get into a 'designed' debate, there is excellent evidence (referred to above), that natural selection has promoted the adult persistence of the expression of the gene that encodes the enzyme lactase, allowing humans to cleave milk sugar into usable glucose.
The passages I quoted from a couple of links suggested just this. That many evolved (over the past 7500 years) to be able to be lactose tolerant. And that especially in the Northern regions of Europe where they couldn't get Vitamin D so effectively because of lack of sunlight -that milk helped make up for the deficiency.
Honestly, the way I see it is if you like and are able to consume dairy, then I think it can definitely be a part of a healthy diet
Jollia - Yes, yours was the post I was referring to - Thanks!0 -
I've gone back and forth on milk. I was dairy free for a short while mostly because at first I was trying to be lower calorie (almond milk is lower than regular milk and didn't care about protein) And also I find dairy kind of addicting, LOVE CHEESE, so once I start letting myself have one cheese I end up having like 4 kinds in my fridge. But I also LOVE the protein now that I'm trying to be higher protein and lifting. I do end up drinking a bunch of milk now although lately I think it's been making me gassy (tmi I guess but still not sure of the cause, may not be dairy).
I didn't feel any different when not drinking dairy.
I do believe though that goats milk is much healthier for us than cow, including goats cheese, because the casein protein in cows milk is a tougher one to digest and the casein protein in goats milk is the same as the one in human breast milk, so it digests much easier and is thus better for you supposedly (makes sense, more natural).
Anyways I like milk and I like cheese and I like protein so I will continue to drink milk.0 -
WE'RE designed to eat certain foods - dairy is not among these foods.
Not true. Humans are fantastically successful because they are generalist omnivores - we eat everything. Including dairy. And if you want to get into a 'designed' debate, there is excellent evidence (referred to above), that natural selection has promoted the adult persistence of the expression of the gene that encodes the enzyme lactase, allowing humans to cleave milk sugar into usable glucose.
The passages I quoted from a couple of links suggested just this. That many evolved (over the past 7500 years) to be able to be lactose tolerant. And that especially in the Northern regions of Europe where they couldn't get Vitamin D so effectively because of lack of sunlight -that milk helped make up for the deficiency.
Honestly, the way I see it is if you like and are able to consume dairy, then I think it can definitely be a part of a healthy diet
Jollia - Yes, yours was the post I was referring to - Thanks!
Oh! hahaha..well..thank you!!!! :blushing: :blushing: :blushing:0 -
Don't even try to school me.
I've been singing for half my life, and have been behind the scenes of the music industry for at least 6 years.
Aside from opera singers (and even then, Sarah Brightman smokes like a chimney), most professional singers don't do diddly squat besides suck on a lemon before a performance.
You don't even know who you're trying to school. Just stop while you're ahead.
And you don't know who you're trying to school, but I agree let's quit fighting because it's silly.
I have been singing my whole life and I am a classically trained singer with a degree in vocal performance. I have been in many musicals and operas.
No, you should not down a pint of milk an hour before you go onstage. However, drinking milk is not going to hurt your voice as long as you aren't lactose intolerant and don't drink it within a reasonable amount of time to singing.
Having said this, Sarah Brightman is possible the worst cited example of what a singer should be doing with their voice. She sounds like she smokes like a chimney. Just saying.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny5H9GiVP_0
Smoking? That's not what a smokers voice sounds like to me...just sayin :P
I don't need a link to hear her voice. I have heard it many times before and frankly don't wish to hear it again. I taught voice for years and I know how to properly use your voice. Sarah Brightman uses technique that is more like a pop singer than a classically trained singer. I'm not saying anything against pop or belt voice. I'm just saying that Sarah Brightman is not a great example of how to properly care for your voice. Also, saying that she smokes like a chimney doesn't negate the argument for whether a singer should or should not drink milk.
By the way, I don't know who you know that is sucking on lemons before they perform, but that is terrible for your voice. Any kind of high acidity food or drink like soda, OJ, lemon, etc. is terrible right before a performance.
No offense, but you said yourself that you work behind the scenes. You have no idea what kind of work singers do to get their voices to perform at top quality. That is like the argument that skinny people eat whatever they want and never gain a pound. You only see what singers do when you are around. You don't see the work that is put in at home or in vocal studio and coaching. And yes, there are a lot of singers who don't treat their voices wisely but that doesn't mean they are doing it right.0 -
Mental health is important too......0
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Mental health is important too......
/endthread0 -
gee, thanks guys. it's nice to know someone read my post and it wasn't lost in the "great debate"Ok here's my two uneducated cents... soy milk is bad if you have thyroid issues and is also not always the best choice for men... almond milk could be bad if processed improperly. Improperly processed almonds contain a naturally occurring form of cyanide, not something I would like to drink. It's also bad if you have a nut allergy, and if you are against processed foods... it's a processed product, last I checked almonds do not have a lot of liquid hanging around. Rice milk..I think it taste bad (I recognize that that is a personal thing :-))and there's not a whole lot there nutritionally. However it might be the only thing you can tolerate. Cows milk... could have hormones, could have antibiotics, could be delicious, it is high in protein but bad if you have an allergy or intolerance, goats milk is also high in protein and easy to digest, but taste is an issue for some... I could go on. My point is that we each have a brain and we should use it... we each have a body and we should listen to it. Diet is not a one size fits all prospect. Weigh your choices and let others do the same. Personally I drink goats milk, but eat Greek yogurt, sour cream... and yes ice cream. That's my choice and what makes me feel good.
The end.
This is the best answer yet. I have thyroid problems, so soymilk is not so great for me. I am also allergic to nuts so almond milk is not so great for me. I am also allergic to cows milk, so that's out. I don't love or hate rice milk. I think goat's milk is delicious and hasn't seemed to have any negative side effects for me. But there are those who would argue that I should not drink goat's milk because humans are not "made to drink goat's milk" and all that jazz. Ima just do for me and youz guys should just do for you.
I agree with you Lilong This is the best answer yet 0 -
Wow. This thread took a few wrong turns.0
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Without milk, how would I feed my ice cream addiction?I know there's another "milk" thread going on but my question is different....
A friend sent this to me earlier, wanted to see what you all thought:
"Milk is for baby cows. Period. We're the only species to drink the milk from another species, and we're also the only species who continues to drink milk after infancy. "
Thoughts?
(PS - Cow/Heffer gifs welcome..... I'm not easily offended!!!)0
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