Health concerns about dairy products

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  • rm7161
    rm7161 Posts: 505
    So I guess we won't go into why Tuna almost went extinct right? Not that it would matter because it is impossible for everyone in the world to become vegans, not that I would want everyone to. People misunderstand the point, which would be LESS consumption of meat and dairy, not a complete halt of it. Vegans choose to cut it out completely for either their own health or to have a greater impact on the environment, but there will always be a meat and dairy industry unless they all get exposed to some disease stemming from poor treatment and die off on their own.

    Vegans inadvertently end up supporting manufacturing that pollutes even worse, for replacements for leather and other synthetic fabric substitutes.

    The rest is just pure non sequitur. I don't care if someone is vegan, but the only argument they have a leg to stand on is that they feel uncomfortable eating other animals, and they can come up with a very good defence of that. I don't agree and there's no point in belaboring it, but I also don't believe I should dictate their conscience.

    But trying to base it in "its natural to be vegan" is just a lie (its also committing the naturalistic fallacy), and nobody is served well by a lie. Maybe some day it will become natural for some humans to eat a fully plant based diet, but I suspect that for human beings to make the next step up in evolution (getting off the third rock from the star we call the Sun), we will have to get more creative than that...

    eta: I also don't eat tuna very often, though they're tasty as all get out. Very high in mercury to go along with your good healthy fats, can thank water pollution for that one. Long time ago I asked PETA about their stand on domesticated animals, and they wrote me back straight saying that it was preferable that they go extinct. They also regularly hamper breeding programs to repopulate wild species on the same grounds, that it is better they go extinct than to have animals in captivity at all.
  • LesterBlackstone
    LesterBlackstone Posts: 291 Member

    In addition to the video I posted earlier (heres the vid in full - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKu2n4dMMCM), this guy also gives a ton of info about the dangers of dairy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9XuYRoqo1A

    So we have another PETA shill and a creationist.

    Awesome!
  • VorJoshigan
    VorJoshigan Posts: 1,106 Member
    If I could afford a stable of human wet-nurses, I would do it. Since I can't, cow's milk is the next best thing.

    I AM designed to eat it because all of my potential ancestors who were NOT designed to eat it failed to thrive/live/reproduce.

    As for the dangers in the studies, I've looked at the studies and found them wanting given the preponderance of evidence. Most of the studies are funded by somebody with an agenda - either dairy industry or vegan moralizers - so we have to do what we can with what we have.
  • bugaha1
    bugaha1 Posts: 602 Member
    sitting in the corner eating cheese curds =)
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Can you post a source that isn't from a radical animal rights group? They have an OBVIOUS agenda. How about a medical site?

    That said, I drink one cup of milk a day these days. Personally, I would prefer soy milk because it tastes better to me.

    This is a good documentary
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1567233/

    Also - http://www.thechinastudy.com/

    About the China study http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)

    An athletes point of view http://www.nomeatathlete.com/milk/
    Yeah, those milk drinkers in China was an eyeopener. Here's some data that's enlightening.

    http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/06/23/tuoli-chinas-mysterious-milk-drinkers/

    In addition to the video I posted earlier (heres the vid in full - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKu2n4dMMCM), this guy also gives a ton of info about the dangers of dairy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9XuYRoqo1A


    Did you look into the background of the source?
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Can you post a source that isn't from a radical animal rights group? They have an OBVIOUS agenda. How about a medical site?

    That said, I drink one cup of milk a day these days. Personally, I would prefer soy milk because it tastes better to me.

    I didn't realize they had an obdious agenda until now. Going there was my first time on their site and they listed a lot of sources so I figured it was legit. As I said I haven't looked into the sources yet but since then people have given other sources which was the purpose of this post.

    Thanks

    Maybe you should do before posting more.
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
    Can you post a source that isn't from a radical animal rights group? They have an OBVIOUS agenda. How about a medical site?

    That said, I drink one cup of milk a day these days. Personally, I would prefer soy milk because it tastes better to me.

    I didn't realize they had an obdious agenda until now. Going there was my first time on their site and they listed a lot of sources so I figured it was legit. As I said I haven't looked into the sources yet but since then people have given other sources which was the purpose of this post.

    Thanks

    Maybe you should do before posting more.

    every single time you make a claim, i'm going to ask for a source. sound good?
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Can you post a source that isn't from a radical animal rights group? They have an OBVIOUS agenda. How about a medical site?

    That said, I drink one cup of milk a day these days. Personally, I would prefer soy milk because it tastes better to me.

    I didn't realize they had an obdious agenda until now. Going there was my first time on their site and they listed a lot of sources so I figured it was legit. As I said I haven't looked into the sources yet but since then people have given other sources which was the purpose of this post.

    Thanks

    Maybe you should do before posting more.

    every single time you make a claim, i'm going to ask for a source. sound good?

    Huh? I wasn't even talking to you. And your point is well...not on point.
  • naschulze
    naschulze Posts: 98
    Can you post a source that isn't from a radical animal rights group? They have an OBVIOUS agenda. How about a medical site?

    That said, I drink one cup of milk a day these days. Personally, I would prefer soy milk because it tastes better to me.

    I didn't realize they had an obdious agenda until now. Going there was my first time on their site and they listed a lot of sources so I figured it was legit. As I said I haven't looked into the sources yet but since then people have given other sources which was the purpose of this post.

    Thanks

    Maybe you should do before posting more.

    every single time you make a claim, i'm going to ask for a source. sound good?

    Huh? I wasn't even talking to you. And your point is well...not on point.
    The purpose of my post was to start a discussion and see what else anyone has ever seen or read on the subject, it has nothing to do with whether the post or article is 100% accurate, I just wanted more info on the topic. You'll notice I just say that it is good info, not whether or not it's right. I'm pretty sure no one here knows whether it's right or not because no on has ever seen any unbiased results first hand or studied them in a lab. Besides that, no one on any topic is every 100% right so I'll post all I want, thank you.
  • 1capegirl
    1capegirl Posts: 7 Member
    I suppose cow's milk is good for you.......if you are a calf :) Seriously, I for one can't handle lactose and it is in alot of foods. So, I stick with unprocessed foods, but do indulge in goat cheese. It doesn't have lactose. Oh, and I was told that hard cheese can be ok for some folks.
  • corn63
    corn63 Posts: 1,580 Member

    The purpose of my post was to start a discussion and see what else anyone has ever seen or read on the subject, it has nothing to do with whether the post or article is 100% accurate, I just wanted more info on the topic. You'll notice I just say that it is good info, not whether or not it's right. I'm pretty sure no one here knows whether it's right or not because no on has ever seen any unbiased results first hand or studied them in a lab. Besides that, no one on any topic is every 100% right so I'll post all I want, thank you.

    Just as you can post all you want, we can post all we want. That business goes both ways. Don't post something if you're not prepared to back it up.
  • rm7161
    rm7161 Posts: 505
    I suppose cow's milk is good for you.......if you are a calf :) Seriously, I for one can't handle lactose and it is in alot of foods. So, I stick with unprocessed foods, but do indulge in goat cheese. It doesn't have lactose. Oh, and I was told that hard cheese can be ok for some folks.

    Soft chevre has lactose in it, like all cream cheeses. Depends on the goat cheese, really, just as it depends on the cow cheese. More aged == less lactose.

    (I adore a fresh chevre... while I have no problems eating it, I certainly can gain weight eating it!)
  • naschulze
    naschulze Posts: 98

    The purpose of my post was to start a discussion and see what else anyone has ever seen or read on the subject, it has nothing to do with whether the post or article is 100% accurate, I just wanted more info on the topic. You'll notice I just say that it is good info, not whether or not it's right. I'm pretty sure no one here knows whether it's right or not because no on has ever seen any unbiased results first hand or studied them in a lab. Besides that, no one on any topic is every 100% right so I'll post all I want, thank you.

    Just as you can post all you want, we can post all we want. That business goes both ways. Don't post something if you're not prepared to back it up.

    I back up the fact that I posted this in search of more information. What else am I supposed to be backing up? I'm not a scientist, I can't verify that any of this info is right or wrong, I'm simply posting something I found and asking for more info on the subject. Anyone who wants to be rude, go ahead. I didn't say anyone else couldn't post what they want.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Can you post a source that isn't from a radical animal rights group? They have an OBVIOUS agenda. How about a medical site?

    That said, I drink one cup of milk a day these days. Personally, I would prefer soy milk because it tastes better to me.

    I didn't realize they had an obdious agenda until now. Going there was my first time on their site and they listed a lot of sources so I figured it was legit. As I said I haven't looked into the sources yet but since then people have given other sources which was the purpose of this post.

    Thanks

    Maybe you should do before posting more.

    every single time you make a claim, i'm going to ask for a source. sound good?

    Huh? I wasn't even talking to you. And your point is well...not on point.
    The purpose of my post was to start a discussion and see what else anyone has ever seen or read on the subject, it has nothing to do with whether the post or article is 100% accurate, I just wanted more info on the topic. You'll notice I just say that it is good info, not whether or not it's right. I'm pretty sure no one here knows whether it's right or not because no on has ever seen any unbiased results first hand or studied them in a lab. Besides that, no one on any topic is every 100% right so I'll post all I want, thank you.

    If it's not right, how is it good? Also, you continued to post articles that had an obvious bias but paid no heed, or at least did not comment on the posts that contradicted yours. If you were really looking for information, then acknowledging those would have made that intent more obvious. I think the last sentence has been addressed by others so I will not bother going there.
  • RedWolf09
    RedWolf09 Posts: 90 Member
    I used to think I was lactose intolerant until I started drinking Whole Milk. It's nature's protein shake. I now drink about half a gallon a day and have seen some serious strength gains in the gym.

    None of you should be concerned with milk as being deleterious to your health. Instead, worry about all the flippin sugar they stick in all the food nowadays. Sugar is what will cause almost every kind of health problem you fear when it comes to nutrition, not whole foods like cow's milk.
  • naschulze
    naschulze Posts: 98
    If it's not right, how is it good? Also, you continued to post articles that had an obvious bias but paid no heed, or at least did not comment on the posts that contradicted yours. If you were really looking for information, then acknowledging those would have made that intent more obvious. I think the last sentence has been addressed by others so I will not bother going there.

    Info is info, and who's to say whether this info is right or wrong? Just because the group or persons that put it together is biased, doesn't mean the info itself is. I've looked at all the links people have posted, for or against my original link, I choose to comment on the ones that are against dairy because that is the information I haven't heard before. I've read a ton of articles on how dairy is good for you, I'm wondering why some people are saying it isn't and why they're saying it. Besides the dairy industry has an obvious agenda, so whose to say that info isn't biased?
  • theferalkat
    theferalkat Posts: 6 Member
    If milk was bad women wouldn't produce it for their babies? Let me just feed some breast milk to my dog.... oh wait - that's not right? Why do you think cow's produce milk, may I ask?
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    If it's not right, how is it good? Also, you continued to post articles that had an obvious bias but paid no heed, or at least did not comment on the posts that contradicted yours. If you were really looking for information, then acknowledging those would have made that intent more obvious. I think the last sentence has been addressed by others so I will not bother going there.

    Info is info, and who's to say whether this info is right or wrong? Just because the group or persons that put it together is biased, doesn't mean the info itself is. I've looked at all the links people have posted, for or against my original link, I choose to comment on the ones that are against dairy because that is the information I haven't heard before. I've read a ton of articles on how dairy is good for you, I'm wondering why some people are saying it isn't and why they're saying it. Besides the dairy industry has an obvious agenda, so whose to say that info isn't biased?

    The point I was making, is that I would assume that people do a little diligence and look into the sources of what they post to at least have some background as to whether it is in the top or bottom percentile of accuracy.

    Of course the dairy industry has an agenda, which is why it is important to look at the research and interpretations as a whole and not just one side or the other.

    And yes, I realize that you are familiar with confirmational bias.

    You obviously have a very strong opinion (read bias) which is highly unlikely to be swayed no matter what research you are shown, so with that..have a lovely day.:flowerforyou:
  • Hearts_2015
    Hearts_2015 Posts: 12,031 Member
    If milk was bad women wouldn't produce it for their babies? Let me just feed some breast milk to my dog.... oh wait - that's not right? Why do you think cow's produce milk, may I ask?
    :huh: for their calves?

    http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-about-dairy-products

    I love this site. Nutritionfacts.org is another great site as well.
    thanks, wanna check this out

    just a side note, really glad we have the ignore feature, the rudeness on the boards I can do without.

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