going dutch on a first date

silverainn

I have a pair of wooden shoes. But I'm Swedish not Dutch.

valeriebpdx

Didn't read all the replies. This is weird to me. I don't get women who are all, "I'm an independent woman, no one's going to control me or tell me what to do" but then all of a sudden when the check comes they're old-fashioned and want to be taken care of. I agree that on the first date the asker should pay. Usually I would grab the second thing (like coffee or a movie after) if the man was nice enough to buy dinner, back in the stone age when I dated. Subsequent dates should be a rough split, tempered by who earns more and who plans what outing. Why should a guy go broke paying for everything to spend time with me if I like him, too? I think that's insane.

RllyGudTweetr

The lesson here appears to be: Any decision a man makes regarding the check on the first date has the potential to be not only wrong, but offensive enough to preclude a second date - including asking for input and believing the answer given.

Welcome to dating in the 21st century.

digitalbill

Man...
Not only is chivelry dying a slow death but, it appears that many of the women actually get offended when a man tries to do the things that a man is supposed to do.

The world is changing and I am staying the same.

khall86790

I think that he should have paid.
I am the same as you in that I go to pay but expect the man to.
However, I have then gone out on further dates with guys where I have paid for us to go and eat to show it's not a man vs women type situation, but that's it's the appropriate thing to do.

PitBullMom_Liz

Wow. This is a total train-wreck of a thread. I had no idea women were so complicated, and I am one! For god's sake. If I'm on a first date, I have no problem offering to pay if I asked him out, or offering to go dutch if he asked me. Whether he accepts or not, I don't care. It's not a deal-breaker. I know how to change a tire, and change my oil and all that happy horsesh*t. But if a guy wants to do it for me because it makes him happy to help, GO AT IT. I don't care! It doesn't threaten my feminism to accept kind behaviors. Cripes, people need to chill out. It's no wonder dating is so hard - too many f*cking crazy women out there have scared the nice guys away.

lwagnitz

Look, it's your food and your belly. Expect to pay for it unless offered. If he pays, he is doing something nice that he doesn't have to. If your friend asked you to go out for lunch, you wouldn't expect them to pay because they asked you.

And if he pays for you on the first date, it doesn't hurt to return the favor on the second.

SteveJWatson

No...
A man pays becanse that is what a man does.
If a woman has a flat tire and is about to put on the spare.. NO!!!!
A man will always do that for her.
A man will do the dirty things although the woman is totally capable of doing it herself.
That is what a man does.
And a man pays for the meal when dating.
Even if she made it perfectly clear that she isn't going to "put out" yet.
The man picks up the bill.

Flat tire? I did an engine swap on my car. Whoopsie...I broke the rules. Although, to be fair, I DID need a man... so I could borrow his engine hoist.

Engine hoists are for losers, what you need is to hang the engine off the forks of a matbro using nylon rope - it adds a whole new level of wobbly uncertainty to the operation...:bigsmile:

lwagnitz

No...
A man pays becanse that is what a man does.
If a woman has a flat tire and is about to put on the spare.. NO!!!!
A man will always do that for her.
A man will do the dirty things although the woman is totally capable of doing it herself.
That is what a man does.
And a man pays for the meal when dating.
Even if she made it perfectly clear that she isn't going to "put out" yet.
The man picks up the bill.

Flat tire? I did an engine swap on my car. Whoopsie...I broke the rules. Although, to be fair, I DID need a man... so I could borrow his engine hoist.

Engine hoists are for losers, what you need is to hang the engine off the forks of a matbro using nylon rope - it adds a whole new level of wobbly uncertainty to the operation...:bigsmile:

:drinker: :drinker: :drinker:

TylerJ76

Man...
Not only is chivelry dying a slow death but, it appears that many of the women actually get offended when a man tries to do the things that a man is supposed to do.

The world is changing and I am staying the same.

Because women don't want to rely on a man to do the things that they can do...

it's not hard to understand, really....Men suck...

PRMinx

I always offer to pay but if he accepts it on a first date then he's probably going to the friend zone.

I used to not be strict about this and, consequently, I always ended up with guys who were never chivalrous and never treated me to anything because I didn't hold them to that standard in the beginning.

This said, I'm no gold digger. Walks in the park, museums, window shopping and strolling are all free dates.

Ah, so your disingenuous offer to pay is simply a surprise "test" for the guy. If he accepts, he's friend-zoned, while if he goes all caveman on you and responds "No! You woman! Me big man! Me pay!" then he's dating material.

Thanks for clearing that up.

If a guy asks me out on a date, he should pay. Sorry, that's how I roll. If he's rude about it, per your example, than that's another thing to consider. Once we are dating, I'm all for splitting the check or even covering it. Anyone who knows me knows that I offer with good intentions all the time AND that I cover far more than my fair share all the time. On a first date, however, I want chivalry.

digitalbill

Man...
Not only is chivelry dying a slow death but, it appears that many of the women actually get offended when a man tries to do the things that a man is supposed to do.

The world is changing and I am staying the same.

Because women don't want to rely on a man to do the things that they can do...

it's not hard to understand, really....Men suck...

I suppose so.
No more opening doors.
No more waiting for her to sit before sitting down.
No more.... well... anything I suppose.

TylerJ76

Man...
Not only is chivelry dying a slow death but, it appears that many of the women actually get offended when a man tries to do the things that a man is supposed to do.

The world is changing and I am staying the same.

Because women don't want to rely on a man to do the things that they can do...

it's not hard to understand, really....Men suck...

I suppose so.
No more opening doors.
No more waiting for her to sit before sitting down.
No more.... well... anything I suppose.

Those are manners. I open the door for ANYONE.

No...
A man pays becanse that is what a man does.
If a woman has a flat tire and is about to put on the spare.. NO!!!!
A man will always do that for her.
A man will do the dirty things although the woman is totally capable of doing it herself.
That is what a man does.
And a man pays for the meal when dating.
Even if she made it perfectly clear that she isn't going to "put out" yet.
The man picks up the bill.

There, you are implying that a woman shouldn't do those things. The women I know don't want to rely on a man to do those things.

digitalbill

Man...
Not only is chivelry dying a slow death but, it appears that many of the women actually get offended when a man tries to do the things that a man is supposed to do.

The world is changing and I am staying the same.

Because women don't want to rely on a man to do the things that they can do...

it's not hard to understand, really....Men suck...

I suppose so.
No more opening doors.
No more waiting for her to sit before sitting down.
No more.... well... anything I suppose.

Those are manners. I open the door for ANYONE.

No...
A man pays becanse that is what a man does.
If a woman has a flat tire and is about to put on the spare.. NO!!!!
A man will always do that for her.
A man will do the dirty things although the woman is totally capable of doing it herself.
That is what a man does.
And a man pays for the meal when dating.
Even if she made it perfectly clear that she isn't going to "put out" yet.
The man picks up the bill.

There, you are implying that a woman shouldn't do those things. The women I know don't want to rely on a man to do those things.

So... really... what is the difference between opening a door and changing a tire?
A woman is capable of doing both things, right?
It is not a matter of reliance. I am not suggesting that a woman walks up to a door and just stands there, confused by the "push" sign.
I am also not suggesting that a woman gets a flat tire and just stares at it dumbfounded.
I am suggesting that, if possible, a man, a REAL man SHOULD take care of these types of tasks.
Several years back, my wife took one of the old trucks I was rebuilding to the store and, after forgetting to turn off the lights, she killed the battery.
She called me up for a jump start.
I got there and she was standing there, hood up and cables in her hand.
Not ONE SINGLE PERSON was "man" enough to simply pull up and offer to help with a jump.
That is where we have gone as a society.
Lots of males around but not a single man.

mgmlap

when hubby and I were dating..I was (and still am) making more. I didnt feel that he should pay all the time..I dont think it really matters..

but..he opens doors, carries the bags, stuff like that..but then I do it do..it called being polite...

RllyGudTweetr

I always offer to pay but if he accepts it on a first date then he's probably going to the friend zone.

I used to not be strict about this and, consequently, I always ended up with guys who were never chivalrous and never treated me to anything because I didn't hold them to that standard in the beginning.

This said, I'm no gold digger. Walks in the park, museums, window shopping and strolling are all free dates.

Ah, so your disingenuous offer to pay is simply a surprise "test" for the guy. If he accepts, he's friend-zoned, while if he goes all caveman on you and responds "No! You woman! Me big man! Me pay!" then he's dating material.

Thanks for clearing that up.

If a guy asks me out on a date, he should pay. Sorry, that's how I roll. If he's rude about it, per your example, than that's another thing to consider. Once we are dating, I'm all for splitting the check or even covering it. Anyone who knows me knows that I offer with good intentions all the time AND that I cover far more than my fair share all the time. On a first date, however, I want chivalry.

Given that I've been told - often, by more than one person - that insisting on getting my way (such as, insisting I pay for a meal after the other person has offered to pay their share) is rude, I'm not sure how to avoid being "rude about it" given your rubric. Apparently it's possible - in theory - to get a second date within your criteria, but the odds look overwhelmingly stacked against it.

concordancia

Whoever gets there first should open the door!

My partner's family solves the whole toilet seat issue by putting the *lid* down. It takes some getting used to, but nothing ever gets knocked into the toilet and everybody has the same responsibility!

I am soooo glad that automatic door locks made that particular test obsolete. I am short and sometimes had difficulty reaching across the car.

PRMinx

Given that I've been told - often, by more than one person - that insisting on getting my way (such as, insisting I pay for a meal after the other person has offered to pay their share) is rude, I'm not sure how to avoid being "rude about it" given your rubric. Apparently it's possible - in theory - to get a second date within your criteria, but the odds look overwhelmingly stacked against it.

Hm. You are quite worked up over this. I honestly don't know why you are so bitter.

By rude, I meant your precise example: He responds "No! You woman! Me big man! Me pay!" then he's dating material.
If someone said that to me, or was clearly dominating in that fashion, I wouldn't like that either.

99% of the time in my recent dates, here's how it goes down.

Me: Would you like me to pay half?
Him: No, I've got this.
Me: Thank you. That is kind of you. Ill get drinks.

It's really not as dramatic as you are making it out to be.

ItsCasey

Man...
Not only is chivelry dying a slow death but, it appears that many of the women actually get offended when a man tries to do the things that a man is supposed to do.

The world is changing and I am staying the same.

Because women don't want to rely on a man to do the things that they can do...

it's not hard to understand, really....Men suck...

I suppose so.
No more opening doors.
No more waiting for her to sit before sitting down.
No more.... well... anything I suppose.

Those are manners. I open the door for ANYONE.

No...
A man pays becanse that is what a man does.
If a woman has a flat tire and is about to put on the spare.. NO!!!!
A man will always do that for her.
A man will do the dirty things although the woman is totally capable of doing it herself.
That is what a man does.
And a man pays for the meal when dating.
Even if she made it perfectly clear that she isn't going to "put out" yet.
The man picks up the bill.

There, you are implying that a woman shouldn't do those things. The women I know don't want to rely on a man to do those things.

So... really... what is the difference between opening a door and changing a tire?
A woman is capable of doing both things, right?
It is not a matter of reliance. I am not suggesting that a woman walks up to a door and just stands there, confused by the "push" sign.
I am also not suggesting that a woman gets a flat tire and just stares at it dumbfounded.
I am suggesting that, if possible, a man, a REAL man SHOULD take care of these types of tasks.
Several years back, my wife took one of the old trucks I was rebuilding to the store and, after forgetting to turn off the lights, she killed the battery.
She called me up for a jump start.
I got there and she was standing there, hood up and cables in her hand.
Not ONE SINGLE PERSON was "man" enough to simply pull up and offer to help with a jump.
That is where we have gone as a society.
Lots of males around but not a single man.

I agree with you completely. What you are saying is exactly what my dad taught me to expect from men, and it is so, so rare these days that when I go on a date with a man who does do all of those things a gentleman is supposed to do, I feel like writing his parents a thank-you note.

It really pisses me off when women get all "I don't need you to open the door for me" because that ruins it for all the women who truly appreciate the gesture. My cousin was raised by a single mom who thinks men in general are worthless, so she raised her daughter to NOT walk through a door that's been opened for her. It saddens me, but it also makes me grateful that I had positive male AND female examples in my life, rather than people who seem to hate the very idea of civility.

Cp731

I say Show Me The Money, Buy my Food, and put a ring on it for cryin out loud..