For those of you that invite others to objectify you:
Replies
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It's fun for men to be objectified because it's not so pervasive. Men don't walk around with their penises popping out of their pants, with every woman walking by judging them on that basis.
Imagine if you were expected to dress that way. Seriously. Think about the ramifications. Men's pants were all super tight, with cuts in the fabric that showed parts of your penis. Everyone looked at that before they looked at your face. You walk into a job interview and it's the first thing the interviewer sees. Everything about you is judged on the basis of how your penis looks.
Think it's not a problem? It is.
stop smoking drugs mmmmmmmmk?
You, sir, are a scholar and have clearly spent a lot of time thinking about how people who aren't attractive white males get along in society.
lol... taken as sarcasm you're saying i'm an attractive white male, so... thank you... but you have no idea what i think about, or for that matter anyone you assume is a budding rapist because they oblige in complimenting women on an internet forum
the fact you think of yourself as better because you probably lack the game to pull off complimenting women doesn't mean others can't indulge in this.
and i can't stress this enough, really seriously and truly... it's a GAME as in: one after the other people say date, bang, etc etc etc as a bit of harmless fun, the same as flirting with someone, the same as banter between men and women
the fact that you're so wrapped up in your own opinion of some made up culture of lustful men attacking women you clearly haven't noticed that in order for a man to rate or bang, date, marry etc etc a woman on that thread there has to be a woman rating a man in which the success of that thread has achieved or it would all be men saying they wouldn't bang each other
ergo: women are partaking in this activity of their free will so please... please stuff your over protective opinion of how women are defenseless little bunnies that need to be saved from the beast that is man... where the sun doesn't shine, you're making a fool of yourself
I expect that in 50 years, this comment will look as out of place as Don Draper would today.
Feels good to be so "advanced" doesn't it?0 -
While the discussion in this thread has merit, has it not completely derailed from the OP?What do you guys think? Do you like it when people tell you you're a certain type of person? Do you like it when people rate you? Do you think others like it when you rate them?
She wasn't asking about rape culture, or implying it... unless I really suck at reading between the lines... The date/mate/marry threads are there, and they are not obligatory. They are not a "participation is required as part of the terms of membership". They are VOLUNTARY... the people who go in those posts choose to do so... whether to scope out new friends, whether to get a boost of confidence, whether to watch a train wreck... but the fact is that they indeed CHOOSE to go in.
So, when the choice is made to participate in such a thread, then I would think the answers to the OPs questions quoted above are yes.
Sometimes that thread game extends outward of the threads and into other forum topics, and at times that is rude - I can see how people could get offended. However, I do not believe these threads create a problem where none existed before.
People judge people. Every day. Whether we like it or not. Judgement in itself is not good or bad. It just is. How we act on that judgement, is where it gets dicey.
Lastly... this is a cool post about judging and how it reflects on us, not on the person we are judging.
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Shiva-Shakti/Osho-on-Judging.htm0 -
^^
Lol0 -
lol... taken as sarcasm you're saying i'm an attractive white male, so... thank you... but you have no idea what i think about, or for that matter anyone you assume is a budding rapist because they oblige in complimenting women on an internet forum
the fact you think of yourself as better because you probably lack the game to pull off complimenting women doesn't mean others can't indulge in this.
and i can't stress this enough, really seriously and truly... it's a GAME as in: one after the other people say date, bang, etc etc etc as a bit of harmless fun, the same as flirting with someone, the same as banter between men and women
the fact that you're so wrapped up in your own opinion of some made up culture of lustful men attacking women you clearly haven't noticed that in order for a man to rate or bang, date, marry etc etc a woman on that thread there has to be a woman rating a man in which the success of that thread has achieved or it would all be men saying they wouldn't bang each other
ergo: women are partaking in this activity of their free will so please... please stuff your over protective opinion of how women are defenseless little bunnies that need to be saved from the beast that is man... where the sun doesn't shine, you're making a fool of yourself
I expect that in 50 years, this comment will look as out of place as Don Draper would today.
do read what you say before you post it?0 -
I don't know why people get so defensive when someone has a different idea of fun that they do. The OP makes good points. Even if you think those threads are fun, it's worth appreciating a different perspective from your own.0
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It's fun for men to be objectified because it's not so pervasive. Men don't walk around with their penises popping out of their pants, with every woman walking by judging them on that basis.
Imagine if you were expected to dress that way. Seriously. Think about the ramifications. Men's pants were all super tight, with cuts in the fabric that showed parts of your penis. Everyone looked at that before they looked at your face. You walk into a job interview and it's the first thing the interviewer sees. Everything about you is judged on the basis of how your penis looks.
Think it's not a problem? It is.
stop smoking drugs mmmmmmmmk?
You, sir, are a scholar and have clearly spent a lot of time thinking about how people who aren't attractive white males get along in society.
lol... taken as sarcasm you're saying i'm an attractive white male, so... thank you... but you have no idea what i think about, or for that matter anyone you assume is a budding rapist because they oblige in complimenting women on an internet forum
the fact you think of yourself as better because you probably lack the game to pull off complimenting women doesn't mean others can't indulge in this.
and i can't stress this enough, really seriously and truly... it's a GAME as in: one after the other people say date, bang, etc etc etc as a bit of harmless fun, the same as flirting with someone, the same as banter between men and women
the fact that you're so wrapped up in your own opinion of some made up culture of lustful men attacking women you clearly haven't noticed that in order for a man to rate or bang, date, marry etc etc a woman on that thread there has to be a woman rating a man in which the success of that thread has achieved or it would all be men saying they wouldn't bang each other
ergo: women are partaking in this activity of their free will so please... please stuff your over protective opinion of how women are defenseless little bunnies that need to be saved from the beast that is man... where the sun doesn't shine, you're making a fool of yourself
I expect that in 50 years, this comment will look as out of place as Don Draper would today.
Feels good to be so "advanced" doesn't it?
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.0 -
Some people need attention. That is not a bad thing, it is a symptom of how disconnected we have become.
A bit of attention is a harmless way to keep people "people".0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
what about a giant douche?0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
what about a giant douche?
Generally, when uneducated closed-minded people are insulting me instead of even attempting to address my arguments, I count that as a victory.0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
On the whole I agree with and respect all that you've said...
unfortunately, I felt the need to highlight that you are acknowledging that you are letting your self worth increase, based on a woman's assessment of another man's character. So in essence, your behavior would cause her to rate you higher, and that makes you feel better.
seems kind of ironic.0 -
***Warning - Look away if you are easily offended***
These are the ramblings of a mental person! If you are a lady and you don't like people looking at your fun bags, they actually make things called "clothes”. When you go for an interview and you don't want your male interviewer to objectify you, you can wear a "suit" with a "shirt". Your breasts are not forced to be out all the time like some puppet show! No one is EXPECTED to dress in a certain way? I dress in whatever I want to dress in, unless we have taken a time machine to the 1940's and I am unaware.
So stop this drivel and say something that makes sense
First - please quit with the "don't read this if you are easily offended". That isn't, and never has been, an acceptable way to excuse yourself from offensive remarks. Also, referring to another's argument as 'drivel' speaks much more to your level of education on the matter than to theirs.
The issue lies with the fact that in positions of power straight, able bodied, white males have an overwhelming majority. And many of these males make judgements about a woman based on her body. Yes, she can choose to not flaunt it, but in many cases that is also a choice to limit her career options. Not because it lessens her ability, but because it lessens a powerful male's desire to have her around.
This judgement is not always even conscious. But it's all but guaranteed that even the most enlightened individual will make at least a subconscious judgement based on physical appearances. It's not a new thing. We learned it over thousands of years to assess breeding partners. But a society that is making decisions about individuals based on physical appearance alone, is not going to progress. So furthering the pervasive practice of sexually objectifying women (or *anyone*) is damaging to society.
Sure, one bang/date/marry thread isn't going to topple society. But the OP's point is that it's just one tiny facet of a massive overall problem facing the world.0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
On the whole I agree with and respect all that you've said...
unfortunately, I felt the need to highlight that you are acknowledging that you are letting your self worth increase, based on a woman's assessment of another man's character. So in essence, your behavior would cause her to rate you higher, and that makes you feel better.
seems kind of ironic.
I want people to judge me based on the content of my character and intellect.0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
what about a giant douche?
Generally, when uneducated closed-minded people are insulting me instead of even attempting to address my arguments, I count that as a victory.
When I lived in South America, when the mountain people couldn't articulate the conversation because of thier lack of education, they would result in violence. I find this to be the same way in all situations. Just a "fun fact."0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
On the whole I agree with and respect all that you've said...
unfortunately, I felt the need to highlight that you are acknowledging that you are letting your self worth increase, based on a woman's assessment of another man's character. So in essence, your behavior would cause her to rate you higher, and that makes you feel better.
seems kind of ironic.
^^ She gets it.0 -
I want people to judge me based on the content of my character and intellect.
Sounds like a dream deeply rooted in the American Dream...0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
what about a giant douche?
Generally, when uneducated closed-minded people are insulting me instead of even attempting to address my arguments, I count that as a victory.
i've addressed it fully, iirc you put that my comment MIGHT be regarded as out of place in 50 years time, which to me is a victory in that in 50 years time i may be talking rubbish
but right now, at this moment in time, you are the one talking out of your backside to which i also count as a victory
given you didn't even attempt to say i was wrong at this point in time you couldn't really disagree0 -
i see a vast difference between wanting to be judged on your moral integrity and intellect and wanting to be judged on how appealing a slab of meat you are.It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
On the whole I agree with and respect all that you've said...
unfortunately, I felt the need to highlight that you are acknowledging that you are letting your self worth increase, based on a woman's assessment of another man's character. So in essence, your behavior would cause her to rate you higher, and that makes you feel better.
seems kind of ironic.0 -
i see a vast difference between wanting to be judged on your moral integrity and intellect and wanting to be judged on how appealing a slab of meat you are.It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
On the whole I agree with and respect all that you've said...
unfortunately, I felt the need to highlight that you are acknowledging that you are letting your self worth increase, based on a woman's assessment of another man's character. So in essence, your behavior would cause her to rate you higher, and that makes you feel better.
seems kind of ironic.
Thank you. I was trying to write a response, but you did it much better than what I was coming up with.0 -
I give you a 6 out of 10
wouldn't date
would bang
RainHoward, I don't have a problem with objectifying people who ask for it, but doing it to someone who asked you not to do it is slimy.0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
On the whole I agree with and respect all that you've said...
unfortunately, I felt the need to highlight that you are acknowledging that you are letting your self worth increase, based on a woman's assessment of another man's character. So in essence, your behavior would cause her to rate you higher, and that makes you feel better.
seems kind of ironic.
I want people to judge me based on the content of my character and intellect.
But in an internet forum, do you feel that your character and your opponents character is being fully represented? It's all a partial assessment, with insufficient information. You may have shining character as it relates to discrimination against women... but do you have the same strength of character in all areas? Probably, but we don't know for sure.
Your debate opponent may have been judged as a 7th grader, but is his character adequately represented? I'm thinking that his humor is being judged - but is his humor = his character... Probably not.
I guess what I'm saying is that allowing judgment to bolster or harm your self worth, regardless of what category that judgement is falling under (looks, intellect, character, etc), is a fruitless endeavor - because NO ONE can see the true being that is you.
ETA: only you know your own character... tho I have a hunch it's pretty solid... so that's where the confidence should come from0 -
It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
On the whole I agree with and respect all that you've said...
unfortunately, I felt the need to highlight that you are acknowledging that you are letting your self worth increase, based on a woman's assessment of another man's character. So in essence, your behavior would cause her to rate you higher, and that makes you feel better.
seems kind of ironic.
I want people to judge me based on the content of my character and intellect.
But in an internet forum, do you feel that your character and your opponents character is being fully represented? It's all a partial assessment, with insufficient information. You may have shining character as it relates to discrimination against women... but do you have the same strength of character in all areas? Probably, but we don't know for sure.
Your debate opponent may have been judged as a 7th grader, but is his character adequately represented? I'm thinking that his humor is being judged - but is his humor = his character... Probably not.
I guess what I'm saying is that allowing judgment to bolster or harm your self worth, regardless of what category that judgement is falling under (looks, intellect, character, etc), is a fruitless endeavor - because NO ONE can see the true being that is you.
Trust me, my self worth is not being altered by this thread. The point is that I have no problem with people judging me to be worthwhile because they think my ideas and character are good. That's not a problem.
Judging people isn't somehow automatically wrong.
The problem is when people, especially women, are judged based on their appeal as a piece of meat. That's a very different concept.0 -
we never know anyone 100%. every day we judge people on what we witness of their words and deeds.It feels pretty good to be knowledgeable about the topic, and to have a mind open enough to be able to think critically about one's own opinions and change them when they realize they are wrong. It also feels good for my opinions to be respected by strong, intelligent, respected people. So, yeah.
Looking at the post above mine... it feels good not to be called a 7th grader by a grown woman.
On the whole I agree with and respect all that you've said...
unfortunately, I felt the need to highlight that you are acknowledging that you are letting your self worth increase, based on a woman's assessment of another man's character. So in essence, your behavior would cause her to rate you higher, and that makes you feel better.
seems kind of ironic.
I want people to judge me based on the content of my character and intellect.
But in an internet forum, do you feel that your character and your opponents character is being fully represented? It's all a partial assessment, with insufficient information. You may have shining character as it relates to discrimination against women... but do you have the same strength of character in all areas? Probably, but we don't know for sure.
Your debate opponent may have been judged as a 7th grader, but is his character adequately represented? I'm thinking that his humor is being judged - but is his humor = his character... Probably not.
I guess what I'm saying is that allowing judgment to bolster or harm your self worth, regardless of what category that judgement is falling under (looks, intellect, character, etc), is a fruitless endeavor - because NO ONE can see the true being that is you.
where and how you use your 'humour' is open for judgement.0 -
i see a vast difference between wanting to be judged on your moral integrity and intellect and wanting to be judged on how appealing a slab of meat you are.
What is the difference you see? I would be very interested to see you unpack that.0 -
Trust me, my self worth is not being altered by this thread. The point is that I have no problem with people judging me to be worthwhile because they think my ideas and character are good. That's not a problem.
Judging people isn't somehow automatically wrong.
The problem is when people, especially women, are judged based on their appeal as a piece of meat. That's a very different concept.
but you're missing the point?! it's men AND women? this isn't a women post so we can rate you thread we're talking about, infact more men post to get rated themselves
good god...
i'd love to see your reaction if a woman genuinely and completely randomly (without me having said it) as a joke rated you 9 or something you'd probably climax your pantyhose0 -
I'm going to just leave this here -
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The objectification of human beings by the opposite sex has ensured the continuity of our species. If that is wrong I don't want to be right.0
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Why do people think this is an either/or thing? Am I the only one who understands that we see each other and ourselves differently depending on context?i see a vast difference between wanting to be judged on your moral integrity and intellect and wanting to be judged on how appealing a slab of meat you are.0 -
The objectification of human beings by the opposite sex has ensured the continuity of our species. If that is wrong I don't want to be right.
The problem is that we aren't living in caves anymore struggling to pass on our genes. Society has gone beyond that, and now so must individuals.0 -
Trust me, my self worth is not being altered by this thread. The point is that I have no problem with people judging me to be worthwhile because they think my ideas and character are good. That's not a problem.
Judging people isn't somehow automatically wrong.
The problem is when people, especially women, are judged based on their appeal as a piece of meat. That's a very different concept.
but you're missing the point?! it's men AND women? this isn't a women post so we can rate you thread we're talking about, infact more men post to get rated themselves
good god...
i'd love to see your reaction if a woman genuinely and completely randomly (without me having said it) as a joke rated you 9 or something you'd probably climax your pantyhose
I think he's extending the point, rather than missing it.
The point is no longer about the rating threads.. it's about judgment of appearance on the whole, and judgment of women's appearances in particular.
Yes, it happens that women are judged based on their appearances, and sometimes (maybe oftentimes) the good looking woman with the nice rack gets hired by the male employer.
BUT... I would stand behind the fact that same male employer would hire a clean cut "unattractive" (based on his judgment) woman over a slovenly dressed man - due to same reasons for discrimination.
And now that there are a lot more women in places in power, I also stand behind the fact that often the converse is true... a good looking, sharply dressed man, will win out over a scrawny, poorly dressed, or "unattractive" male when the employer doing the hiring is female.
People tend to surround themselves with those they are attracted to - regardless of whether that attraction is based on the visual or the intellectual.0 -
No offense, but if i were you I would be more worried about staying in a job where the boss has "called me fat like 3 times".0
This discussion has been closed.
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