what's too much protein when bulking?

DatMurse

Actually you probably could take protein recommendations from Ronnie Coleman. Bodybuilders don't just follow **** blindly you know, there's a fair bit of research on the subject or rather if you want to do legit research from an athlete, I'd suggest reading any of the large amount of information put out by Dr. Layne Norton who is a natural professional bodybuilder and one of the worlds foremost authorities on protein synthesis.

The protein requirement of a steroid enhanced bodybuilder is much greater than someone who is not.

Musclemiss

1g to 1.5 g per pound of body weight.. the body can only absorb 40 g at a time..protein is the most important along with amino acids to build muscle.

BonaFideUK

You need to have 1g of protein per lb of body weight per day. Try not to have more than 40g-50g in a sitting, its the most your body can absorb. If you're very overweight then you can use your BMI instead for protein intake.

blackcloud13

Bump

roverdisc98

NOOOOOOOO.... don't bump this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

DatMurse

1g to 1.5 g per pound of body weight.. the body can only absorb 40 g at a time..protein is the most important along with amino acids to build muscle.

no....

DatMurse

So let go by those sources.... Someone has already done the summary.

http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

With a 0.82 g/lb bodyweight that comes up to about ..... 1 g/lb of LBM.

Edit: You gained 1 lb of LBM after a year of lifting? Newbie gains or not - that isn't what I'm looking for.

I was in a calorie deficit the entire time. That's about the time i lost my first 100lbs. I was lifting through 90% of it. I wouldn't expect much of a gain on LBM.

Are you familiar with the work by Dr.Barry Sears(Biochemist)? He's the creator of the zone diet, the popular 40/30/30 was created by him.

He has produced 25 olympic gold medalist... His highest recommendations for protein?

Sedentary - multiply lbs of lean body mass by .5
Light activity (e.g. walking) - multiply by .6
Moderate (30 minutes of vigorous activity 3 days per week) - .7
Active (1 hour per day 5 days per week) - .8
Very Active (10 hours of vigorous activity per week - .9
Athlete - multiply by 1.0

what does an olympian have anything to do with protein reccomendations?

I wouldnt take protein reccomendations from ronnie coleman

why would I take protein reccomendations from an endurance athlete?


You can gain LBM if you are that overweight. Its on the basis of fuel availability.

You were morbidly obese and what you could experience doesnt apply to a normal person.

Edit:STUDIES>EXPERIENCE.

I have never pulled this out but before you start talking about experience as a weapon and to eliminate studies.
GET ON MY LEVEL IF YOU WANT TO USE EXPERIENCE OVER STUDIES, AS LEAN AS ME AND LIFT AS MUCH AS ME!

No without experience there would be no studies.

About the protein requirement, my point is that olympic athletes probably need more protein than anyone else. Yet they still did not consume the ridiculous amounts recommended in this topic.

olympic athlete you referred to was an endurance one.
They run off of different energy levels than a strength one.

Sarauk2sf

Lacto-ovo vegeterians

Lacto-ovo vegeterians(I’ll just call them veggie’s for short) Consume about 79g of protein and about 450 calories less than non-vegetarians. Non veggie’s consume about 138g of protein on a daily basis. Both groups in this study gained between 2-5lbs of LBM. The point of this study is to show once you meet the minimum requirements you don’t need more protein. Remember 5lbs of LBM is what can be gained with a good resistance plan. In this study both groups came close to average results, even the veggies who ate very low amounts of protein.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563

They put vegetarians on creatine and they showed a gain in LBM? No *kitten*! What am I missing here? Of course they gained LBM.

Protein builds muscle remember, it's all about protein -cough cough- It's physically impossible for them to build muscle mass according to you guys because they didn't have enough protein to do so.

Pu..ffs....LBM =/= mucle.

SideSteel

LBM =/= skeletal muscle.

SideSteel

As I mentioned above, i have many studies that support my claim. Here is part of a topic i wrote with references

Those references were disputed heavily in the thread where you posted it.

This thread?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787083-muscle-growth-protein-recommendations-highly-over-rated

Contact olivia, tell her to bring back the post where you and sidesteel both criticized the topic but didn't get far because i debunked everything both you said..

I'm LOLing.

Sarauk2sf

As I mentioned above, i have many studies that support my claim. Here is part of a topic i wrote with references

Those references were disputed heavily in the thread where you posted it.

This thread?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787083-muscle-growth-protein-recommendations-highly-over-rated

Contact olivia, tell her to bring back the post where you and sidesteel both criticized the topic but didn't get far because i debunked everything both you said..

OMG,,,are your delusional?.....you are too funny. You should start a new career as a stand up.

DatMurse

Lacto-ovo vegeterians

Lacto-ovo vegeterians(I’ll just call them veggie’s for short) Consume about 79g of protein and about 450 calories less than non-vegetarians. Non veggie’s consume about 138g of protein on a daily basis. Both groups in this study gained between 2-5lbs of LBM. The point of this study is to show once you meet the minimum requirements you don’t need more protein. Remember 5lbs of LBM is what can be gained with a good resistance plan. In this study both groups came close to average results, even the veggies who ate very low amounts of protein.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563

They put vegetarians on creatine and they showed a gain in LBM? No *kitten*! What am I missing here? Of course they gained LBM.

Protein builds muscle remember, it's all about protein -cough cough- It's physically impossible for them to build muscle mass according to you guys because they didn't have enough protein to do so.

you do realize what protein quality is? we say protein to not overcomplicate things but there are certain amino acids that must be ingested to have optimal muscle building.

DatMurse

LBM =/= skeletal muscle.

forgot about that lol

DatMurse

like what everyone said with 1g per lb

excess protein is also synthesized for other functions within the body. Nothing is every truly wasted

look up gluconeogenesis and denovo lipogenesis

DNL is highly inefficient process if it even occurs. Exercise is mostly glucose dependent not protein dependent. It takes quick energy to be able to lift and recover. Gluconeogenesis would take to long. Just go directly to the source and eat the carbs...

Ummm, DNL is certainly what happens when dietary carbohydrates exceed total energy expenditure. VLDL synthesis in the liver is actually rather efficient. Or are you talking about something else?

I was talking about gluconeogenesis being highly ineffective. About DNL, I remember reading a study saying that our ability to store carbs is greater than what we think. Also that DNL doesn't happen in humans. I just read an abstract right now to refresh my memory. It's saying DNL does exist in humans from a logical stand point(thinking about it in a common sense way) it has to exist.

Of course your body stores carbs preferably, but if protein cannot be stored, and carbs cannot be stored, the energy is not going to magically disappear.

You are not interpreting the study properly

I remember now(you jogged my memory). the study was pretty much saying that protein gets converted to glucose as you know, and carbs obviously get converted to glucose and both are stored as glycogen, not converted to fat. What happens is we limit the fat oxidation. It mentioned how we can hold a lot more glycogen than previously thought.

ok, well what if all are full?

That is my point

The question is, "how much glycogen do you need for it to be full?

That is far from the point
Vary from person to person, but that doesnt matter, DNL will still occur.

You still havent respodned to my comments about you stating studies/articles that you linked and reccomended .82 when you were trying to use them to justify your .5g
on top of the fact you are trying justify protein intake from an obese individual and apply it to a normal sized person

SideSteel

like what everyone said with 1g per lb

excess protein is also synthesized for other functions within the body. Nothing is every truly wasted

look up gluconeogenesis and denovo lipogenesis

DNL is highly inefficient process if it even occurs. Exercise is mostly glucose dependent not protein dependent. It takes quick energy to be able to lift and recover. Gluconeogenesis would take to long. Just go directly to the source and eat the carbs...

Ummm, DNL is certainly what happens when dietary carbohydrates exceed total energy expenditure. VLDL synthesis in the liver is actually rather efficient. Or are you talking about something else?

I was talking about gluconeogenesis being highly ineffective. About DNL, I remember reading a study saying that our ability to store carbs is greater than what we think. Also that DNL doesn't happen in humans. I just read an abstract right now to refresh my memory. It's saying DNL does exist in humans from a logical stand point(thinking about it in a common sense way) it has to exist.

Of course your body stores carbs preferably, but if protein cannot be stored, and carbs cannot be stored, the energy is not going to magically disappear.

You are not interpreting the study properly

I remember now(you jogged my memory). the study was pretty much saying that protein gets converted to glucose as you know, and carbs obviously get converted to glucose and both are stored as glycogen, not converted to fat. What happens is we limit the fat oxidation. It mentioned how we can hold a lot more glycogen than previously thought.

ok, well what if all are full?

That is my point

The question is, "how much glycogen do you need for it to be full?

That is far from the point
Vary from person to person, but that doesnt matter, DNL will still occur.

You still havent respodned to my comments about you stating studies/articles that you linked and reccomended .82 when you were trying to use them to justify your .5g
on top of the fact you are trying justify protein intake from an obese individual and apply it to a normal sized person

You are trying to use context. Apparently that's not welcome in this discussion.

jofjltncb6

In...

...to catch up on three pages.

As for "inefficient processes", in the context of weight loss, why would this be a bad thing? Wouldn't inefficient utilization actually have a beneficial impact? And on maintenance/gain, what is the issue?

Sarauk2sf

Lacto-ovo vegeterians

Lacto-ovo vegeterians(I’ll just call them veggie’s for short) Consume about 79g of protein and about 450 calories less than non-vegetarians. Non veggie’s consume about 138g of protein on a daily basis. Both groups in this study gained between 2-5lbs of LBM. The point of this study is to show once you meet the minimum requirements you don’t need more protein. Remember 5lbs of LBM is what can be gained with a good resistance plan. In this study both groups came close to average results, even the veggies who ate very low amounts of protein.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563

They put vegetarians on creatine and they showed a gain in LBM? No *kitten*! What am I missing here? Of course they gained LBM.

Protein builds muscle remember, it's all about protein -cough cough- It's physically impossible for them to build muscle mass according to you guys because they didn't have enough protein to do so.

Pu..ffs....LBM =/= mucle.

I know it's not that's what i have been saying... all this time... We already been through all this. You already know my point of view, i know yours. that simple.

PU....I was addressing the study re LBM. You really need to try to apply relevance to your discussion.

DatMurse

like what everyone said with 1g per lb

excess protein is also synthesized for other functions within the body. Nothing is every truly wasted

look up gluconeogenesis and denovo lipogenesis

DNL is highly inefficient process if it even occurs. Exercise is mostly glucose dependent not protein dependent. It takes quick energy to be able to lift and recover. Gluconeogenesis would take to long. Just go directly to the source and eat the carbs...

Ummm, DNL is certainly what happens when dietary carbohydrates exceed total energy expenditure. VLDL synthesis in the liver is actually rather efficient. Or are you talking about something else?

I was talking about gluconeogenesis being highly ineffective. About DNL, I remember reading a study saying that our ability to store carbs is greater than what we think. Also that DNL doesn't happen in humans. I just read an abstract right now to refresh my memory. It's saying DNL does exist in humans from a logical stand point(thinking about it in a common sense way) it has to exist.

Of course your body stores carbs preferably, but if protein cannot be stored, and carbs cannot be stored, the energy is not going to magically disappear.

You are not interpreting the study properly

I remember now(you jogged my memory). the study was pretty much saying that protein gets converted to glucose as you know, and carbs obviously get converted to glucose and both are stored as glycogen, not converted to fat. What happens is we limit the fat oxidation. It mentioned how we can hold a lot more glycogen than previously thought.

ok, well what if all are full?

That is my point

The question is, "how much glycogen do you need for it to be full?

That is far from the point
Vary from person to person, but that doesnt matter, DNL will still occur.

You still havent respodned to my comments about you stating studies/articles that you linked and reccomended .82 when you were trying to use them to justify your .5g
on top of the fact you are trying justify protein intake from an obese individual and apply it to a normal sized person

I missed your question, and i don't understand if you're asking it here... so ask again?

go look for it in the thread

DatMurse

go look for it in the thread

I did, couldn't find it.

you must have been pretty bad at hide and seek if you cant find it.

Sunnyjb

I have also been told that most people can't absorb much more than 30 grams of protein at a time. So the point would be that if you are taking in anymore than that at a time it will pass through. Makes you take a more balanced approach instead of trying to do it all at once.

That's a myth that will never die. Think about it. A 250 LB bodybuilder can only absorb as much protein as a 130 LB female at one meal.

It isn't your weight that decides how much of things you can absorb. It's our digestive system. I am certified nutritionist (for animals... lol) but same idea, your kidneys/liver/pancreas/large intestine can only break down and absorb a certain amount of each thing. Your weight will not influence this. You also can't store it like a camel stores water in its hump, so it will be passed out of your system and wasted. Also, our bodies don't have a good way of getting rid of protein so it is turned into ammonia and passed through the excretory system (sweat) If you are eating too much your sweat will start to smell of ammonia. If you don't sweat your body will build up and will begin lysing calcium from your bones, and you will have a hard time with carbohydrates... which you need to fuel your workouts.

It can also cause kidney stones... this one I learned the hard way ><

Anyway, that is not a myth.