Ketogenic Diet

CoachReddy

So I'm not sure why you keep harping on the same issue repeatedly.

Next comes the <insert scary music here> Shakeology sales pitch =D

yeah i don't sell shakeology.

nice try though.

"I'm also a Beachbody Coach, so feel free to shoot any Beachbody, P90X, Insanity, or Shakeology questions my way and I'd be happy to answer them for you."

You're a Beachbody Coach. Nuff' said.

you somehow think you can skip fruits and veggies yet meet your micronutrient needs. 'Nuff said.

lol. Why in the world would you assume I don't eat fruit and vegetables?

how many g of carb do you shoot for daily?

25g of non refined carbs.

But honestly, why do you care what others eat, or don't eat?

in my experience most people who try keto end up bailing because it's too restrictive, and then gain all the weight back. if you can manage it successfully for the rest of your life, more power to you, but most people can't. so that means a large number of folks jumping on the Keto fad will end up having wasted their time and emotional energy once they rebound - which, like I said, happens to the majority of people who try it.

can i stop them from trying it? no. should i try and stop them from trying it if they want to? no. is my opinion any more valid than yours? no. but that doesn't mean I shouldn't share my experience - and that is that most people who try a ketogenic diet fail long-term because of how restrictive it is.

also on a completely separate note, just because your body CAN run off ketone bodies doesn't mean that's the preferred source of energy. I'd rather give my body the energy it WANTS, not just the energy it can handle adequately. it's like putting crappy motor oil in your car compared with high quality stuff. will it run? sure. but there will be significantly more stress put on the system. same in the body. dietary stress is a real thing. how hard your body has to work to digest, absorb, and convert food into energy adds up over a lifetime.

OkieTink

So I'm not sure why you keep harping on the same issue repeatedly.

Next comes the <insert scary music here> Shakeology sales pitch =D

yeah i don't sell shakeology.

nice try though.

"I'm also a Beachbody Coach, so feel free to shoot any Beachbody, P90X, Insanity, or Shakeology questions my way and I'd be happy to answer them for you."

You're a Beachbody Coach. Nuff' said.

you somehow think you can skip fruits and veggies yet meet your micronutrient needs. 'Nuff said.

lol. Why in the world would you assume I don't eat fruit and vegetables?

how many g of carb do you shoot for daily?

25g of non refined carbs.

But honestly, why do you care what others eat, or don't eat?

in my experience most people who try keto end up bailing because it's too restrictive, and then gain all the weight back. if you can manage it successfully for the rest of your life, more power to you, but most people can't. so that means a large number of folks jumping on the Keto fad will end up having wasted their time and emotional energy once they rebound - which, like I said, happens to the majority of people who try it.

can i stop them from trying it? no. should i try and stop them from trying it if they want to? no. is my opinion any more valid than yours? no. but that doesn't mean I shouldn't share my experience - and that is that most people who try a ketogenic diet fail long-term because of how restrictive it is.

also on a completely separate note, just because your body CAN run off ketone bodies doesn't mean that's the preferred source of energy. I'd rather give my body the energy it WANTS, not just the energy it can handle adequately. it's like putting crappy motor oil in your car compared with high quality stuff. will it run? sure. but there will be significantly more stress put on the system. same in the body. dietary stress is a real thing. how hard your body has to work to digest, absorb, and convert food into energy adds up over a lifetime.

My diet is not unlike yours, I eat clean, I eat often and I have never felt better. I did not enter this lifestyle change on a whim, and my medical doctor fully supports my decision. But thanks for your concern

FrankieTrailBlazer

This is quite interesting and informative "The Diet Wars (John McDougall, MD) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srkd-irmrC0

CoachReddy

you somehow think you can skip fruits and veggies yet meet your micronutrient needs. 'Nuff said.

Nobody doing ketosis ever needs to skip fruits and veggies. We do value veggies more than fruits, and most stick to higher-fiber lower GI fruits like berries and cherries, which are very low-carb, delicious and full of nutrients/antioxidants etc.

The amount of nutrients in 30g of non-starchy vegetables is more than sufficient for a person's needs. And again, there's no nutrient or vitamin found in fruit that's not also available in non-starchy vegetables.

Not to mention that nutrition-wise, there's almost nothing on the planet more nutritious than organ meats. Not everybody likes them, unfortunately. I have my butcher grind a little organ meats into my sausage and ground meats just for added nutrient value and nobody in my family notices the difference in flavor.

The idea that people in ketosis aren't getting adequate nutrition is a complete myth based in ignorance of the subject. That's the blunt, honest truth.

i just want to point something out to you.

just because you are extremely well versed in your own nutritional needs does NOT mean everyone else who tries a keto diet is as well. MOST people who try it are looking for a "get skinny quick" scheme and ARE ignorant of the subject.

There are many who go on ZERO carb diets. Can keto be done safely? Obviously yes, since it's a treatment for metabolic disorders. But I think you need to be extremely clear when discussing Keto diets that there's a difference between low carb and no carb, and that there is a healthy way to do it and a not so healthy way. Carbs are NOT the enemy, and treating them as such creates a problem.

albertabeefy

in my experience most people who try keto end up bailing because it's too restrictive, and then gain all the weight back.

You know as well as we do that most people trying ANY diet bail/fail and gain weight back. Well over 90%, in-fact. This is not the fault of the diet, this is the fault of the person.

The problem is with people that "go on" a diet, implying they'll go off. The key with a ketogenic diet or any other is once desired weight-loss is achieved, not to drastically change the diet back to old habits. And that's what virtually everybody who fails on any diet does. To solely blame keto- for this is to miss the point.

When someone returns to a maintenance phase of any diet they should reintroduce dietary changes gradually, not drastically, and they should still monitor calories to be sure they're not above TDEE. Anyone doing anything different is going to fail regardless of the diet.

if you can manage it successfully for the rest of your life, more power to you, but most people can't. so that means a large number of folks jumping on the Keto fad will end up having wasted their time and emotional energy once they rebound - which, like I said, happens to the majority of people who try it.

Again, it's the same with ANY diet that people "go on" and then "go off" of. Regardless of it's macronutrient profile.

can i stop them from trying it? no. should i try and stop them from trying it if they want to? no. is my opinion any more valid than yours? no. but that doesn't mean I shouldn't share my experience - and that is that most people who try a ketogenic diet fail long-term because of how restrictive it is.

No, they don't fail because of how restrictive it is ... that's your assumption. Most fail in that they think they can drastically change dietary habits without consequences.

The vast majority of people who try any diet plan fail. I could say "they all fail on diet plans because of how restrictive they are" but that doesn't make it true. They fail because they lack the willpower to eat properly, then people like you call the diet that's been used for over a century a fad...

also on a completely separate note, just because your body CAN run off ketone bodies doesn't mean that's the preferred source of energy.

What's the scientific definition of "preferred", do you know? I hear that all the time from the anti-keto crowd.

Preferred doesn't mean "better". Preferred simply means what it will use first under normal circumstances if available. In a ketogenic dieter the bodie's PREFERRED source of fuel is fatty acids. Therefore, the term 'preferred' doesn't make a glucose-fueled body any more desirable than a ketone/fatty-acid fueled one.

Everybody who's ketogenic has a body who's preferred source of energy is fatty-acids and ketones.

I'd rather give my body the energy it WANTS, not just the energy it can handle adequately. it's like putting crappy motor oil in your car compared with high quality stuff. will it run? sure. but there will be significantly more stress put on the system. same in the body. dietary stress is a real thing. how hard your body has to work to digest, absorb, and convert food into energy adds up over a lifetime.

And none of this is true. Saying carbohydrates are the "energy it WANTS" is an opinion that's not based in biochemistry. It's a complete myth you simply cannot back up with science.

... as is your motor oil analogy.

A ketogenic diet that includes 25-30g at minimum of non-starchy veggies and low-GI fruits is far healthier than what 95% of the western world is eating today, and your diet is no more nutritionally complete, nor 'better' in any biochemical fashion.

The ONLY difference between your diet and mine is yours will allow slightly higher glucogen stores, while mine will keep blood glucose and insulin levels more moderate.

OkieTink

lol. There is not ONE post here that encourages a carb free lifestyle, in fact, most posts here talk about carb macro's. I would hope people are smart enough to investigate ANY lifestyle choice they make, but if they don't, that is their business.

Live and let live.

albertabeefy

i just want to point something out to you.

just because you are extremely well versed in your own nutritional needs does NOT mean everyone else who tries a keto diet is as well. MOST people who try it are looking for a "get skinny quick" scheme and ARE ignorant of the subject.

There are many who go on ZERO carb diets. Can keto be done safely? Obviously yes, since it's a treatment for metabolic disorders. But I think you need to be extremely clear when discussing Keto diets that there's a difference between low carb and no carb, and that there is a healthy way to do it and a not so healthy way. Carbs are NOT the enemy, and treating them as such creates a problem.

And I agree with you - in regards to many a diet. There are people that adopted the "Twinkie Diet" after the media touted it. And the "nothing but potatoes for a month" diet ...

Then there's those that go vegan without knowledge and get tooth decay, hair loss, and horrible symptoms from B12 deficiency.

There's multiple reports worldwide of vegans depriving their children nutritionally causing DEATH to the children, yet here you are harping on keto...

Regardless of what diet a person chooses, they should research it, and there are risks of deficiencies. The point you make doesn't solely apply to keto, yet you continue to attack it without having a sound understanding yourself.

And BTW nobody here has said that carbs are the enemy, which you seem to think we believe. No ketogenic diet recommends zero carb. No expert in ketogenic dieting, whether versed in nutrition, epilepsy or endocrine disorders recommends zero carb. None.

You seem to have preconceived notions about all keto- dieters and proponents that aren't based in fact.

CoachReddy

also on a completely separate note, just because your body CAN run off ketone bodies doesn't mean that's the preferred source of energy.

What's the scientific definition of "preferred", do you know? I hear that all the time from the anti-keto crowd.

Preferred doesn't mean "better". Preferred simply means what it will use first under normal circumstances if available. In a ketogenic dieter the bodie's PREFERRED source of fuel is fatty acids. Therefore, the term 'preferred' doesn't make a glucose-fueled body any more desirable than a ketone/fatty-acid fueled one.

Everybody who's ketogenic has a body who's preferred source of energy is fatty-acids and ketones.

i simply mean that in your body's natural state, before you ketone-d yourself, it preferred carbs for energy, and you had to TRAIN IT to prefer ketones

CoachReddy

i just want to point something out to you.

just because you are extremely well versed in your own nutritional needs does NOT mean everyone else who tries a keto diet is as well. MOST people who try it are looking for a "get skinny quick" scheme and ARE ignorant of the subject.

There are many who go on ZERO carb diets. Can keto be done safely? Obviously yes, since it's a treatment for metabolic disorders. But I think you need to be extremely clear when discussing Keto diets that there's a difference between low carb and no carb, and that there is a healthy way to do it and a not so healthy way. Carbs are NOT the enemy, and treating them as such creates a problem.

And I agree with you - in regards to many a diet. There are people that adopted the "Twinkie Diet" after the media touted it. And the "nothing but potatoes for a month" diet ...

Then there's those that go vegan without knowledge and get tooth decay, hair loss, and horrible symptoms from B12 deficiency.

There's multiple reports worldwide of vegans depriving their children nutritionally causing DEATH to the children, yet here you are harping on keto...

Regardless of what diet a person chooses, they should research it, and there are risks of deficiencies. The point you make doesn't solely apply to keto, yet you continue to attack it without having a sound understanding yourself.

And BTW nobody here has said that carbs are the enemy, which you seem to think we believe. No ketogenic diet recommends zero carb. No expert in ketogenic dieting, whether versed in nutrition, epilepsy or endocrine disorders recommends zero carb. None.

You seem to have preconceived notions about all keto- dieters and proponents that aren't based in fact.

come on, i didn't say you or anyone in this thread supported zero carb, and I never made sweeping generalizations about all keto-dieters. I said "most" and the "majority", which you seemed to agree with until the edit.

you can't disagree that most people jump on the keto bandwagon looking for a quick fix.

OkieTink

you can't disagree that most people jump on the keto bandwagon looking for a quick fix.

I'm sure more people jump on the Primal looking for a quick fix

OMGSugarOHNOS

Actually no I havent' been on the diet yet, I plan to have my first Ketogenic meal tonight . I defintaly have the metalic taste in my mouth right now, however I gonna be gone for the weekend on a cabin trip, so I most certainly wont have the benifits for long.

I adjusted my diet goals today, and your right I can't have the shakes. I'm keeping one of them but that's it. Ill be over by a couple grams of carbs tonight but not much, I'm shooting for 5%. Thanks for taking the time to look at my diary! I appreciate it!

Aren't you starving on 1300 calories?

Hahaha Not really, I started at 1900 calories and as I lose more weight, I have lowered my caloric intake. I Plan on staying at 1300 caloires a day, till I reach my goal weight.

And then what? jfc, that's a horrible idea

albertabeefy

you can't disagree that most people jump on the keto bandwagon looking for a quick fix.

Just like you can't disagree that most people jumping on ANY diet without researching it are looking for a quick fix.

My problem is people that make sweeping generalization about ketogenic diets, and especially those that are quick to dissuade people from using them are actually part of the problem with ignorance about proper nutrition on the diet.

Without realizing it many people that are adverse to the diet perpetuate the myth that it's all "meat, fat with no vegetables or fruit" ... As such, that idea still exists in much of the world, when it is a very inaccurate portrayal of a proper ketogenic diet.

Ask the majority of people what "Atkins" diet is, and they'll immediately picture a big ribeye steak or plate of bacon. Most people, when asked to picture an 'Atkins' or 'ketogenic' meal do NOT picture this:



Yet that is a ketogenic meal.

Now, when someone is desperate to lose weight, they might choose what they THINK is Atkins/Keto without having a clue what it really is. Instead of simply poo-pooing the diet, you should embrace it for those that want it, and teach the truth about it.

Also of note. . . you seem to think only a small segment of dieters has a 'metabolic disorder' ... Which likely isn't true.

Virtually ANY person who's had 20lbs or more of visceral body fat (fat in/around the organs) for more than two years has a metabolic disorder. The science on this is clear. Hopefully, with proper diet and exercise they can turn it around and have it not be permanent, but make no mistake ... the presence of that visceral adipose tissue for > 2 years does mean they have a metabolic disorder, and should diet as such.

If they're not genetically pre-disposed to diabetes and haven't done too much long-term damage they can likely reverse it, but not in all cases.

Even if someone doesn't have high blood glucose, I assure you that ANYONE with that kind of visceral adipose tissue HAS a metabolic disorder.

There are many experts now that think it's a shame we still diagnose Type II diabetes, pre-diabetes and metabolic-syndrome with glucose, as for these patients glucose is the LAST thing to be chronically elevated. Advanced lipid testing and insulin testing show the metabolic disorder YEARS before glucose does.

kiramaniac

in my experience most people who try keto end up bailing because it's too restrictive, and then gain all the weight back. if you can manage it successfully for the rest of your life, more power to you, but most people can't. so that means a large number of folks jumping on the Keto fad will end up having wasted their time and emotional energy once they rebound - which, like I said, happens to the majority of people who try it.

i just want to point something out to you.

just because you are extremely well versed in your own nutritional needs does NOT mean everyone else who tries a keto diet is as well. MOST people who try it are looking for a "get skinny quick" scheme and ARE ignorant of the subject.

There are many who go on ZERO carb diets. Can keto be done safely? Obviously yes, since it's a treatment for metabolic disorders. But I think you need to be extremely clear when discussing Keto diets that there's a difference between low carb and no carb, and that there is a healthy way to do it and a not so healthy way. Carbs are NOT the enemy, and treating them as such creates a problem.

come on, i didn't say you or anyone in this thread supported zero carb, and I never made sweeping generalizations about all keto-dieters. I said "most" and the "majority", which you seemed to agree with until the edit.

Let's face it - people who choose not to educate themselves are likely to fail long term in whatever program they follow. Anyone who has success on keto (or ANY program) and then goes back to the exact, same eating habits that caused them to gain weight in the first place, is not going to see long term success. This isn't a flaw in the diet though. The key is recognizing that this is a long-term issue that you have, and addressing it as a lifestyle change, and not as a short-term dietary change that you get to quit when you get to goal.

So what WAS the point of bringing up ZERO carb if you weren't implying that people on keto are doing that? It certainly seemed like that was your point.

How can you say that you aren't making sweeping generalizations? You say "in my experience" and then use that to apply to "most people who try keto". That is the virtually the definition of a sweeping generalization.

Perhaps you could try presenting your position with more facts and research, and fewer opinions and generalizations.

Akimajuktuq

I'm ketogenic but for me it's a permanent lifestyle, not a temporary "diet". It's not effective for people who just want to lose weight and then return to their previous lifestyle. The health improvements from this lifestyle have been absolutely miraculous and I will never ever go back to being sick and dying. No piece of bread is worth it.

Edit: thanks albertabeefy for the great discussion. The ketogenic lifestyle (used to cure illness inc obesity) has indeed been around for over 100 years, but we can't expect that all the MFP "experts" have bothered to really look at all the research and especially the results from doctors who actually TREATED obese patients.

LauraDotts

I have been in ketosis for a year. I have type 2 diabetes and PCOS. My macro ratio is 75% fat 20% protien 5% carb. I get the majority of my carbs from low glycemic vegetables.

I'm with Albert as being one of the most glucose intolerant people on MFP. Even a little bit of fruit will raise my blood glucose levels above acceptable levels. I can't even dream of eating bread in any amount. After losing 90 pounds I've been able to add back limited amounts of tomato.

I'm one of those diabetics that cannot do intermittent fasting. Keto controls the cravings and hunger but when it is time for a meal I have to eat like right now. I don't have to carb up after a workout. I wouldn't dare as my blood glucose rises all on its own after physical exertion. I make sure I have a meal with plenty of fat right before heading to the gym. It also tends to go up in the morning (dawn phenomenon). If I eat too many carbs in a meal, I am lethargic.

I still check the keto sticks occasionally. It usually registers trace or negative. Apparently my metabolism has learned just how much ketone I need and doesn't produce extra. I also drink a ton of water. I see no need to spend the money on a ketone meter. I know I'm in ketosis based on my diet and energy level.

My diabetes is completely under control with keto. I brought my A1c down to a 5.1 without any medication. I have since been placed on Metformin specifically for other PCOS symptoms. The medication has made very little impact on my glucose levels although it may be responsible for my being able to eat tomato again. I'm hoping that after another 100 pounds I can add back some fruit.

A ketogenic diet is completely sustainable. There is a world of wonderful foods that are low in carbohydrates that I can enjoy and discover. But, like any other plan, I have to watch calories and control portions. I only wish I had known about PCOS and a ketogenic diet when I was in my teens or early 20s. Perhaps I would have never reached 325 pounds.

Tubbytucka

I'm on a ketogenic at the moment, and have lost 12lbs in the last 4 weeks. It is great - I don't snack because the food fills me up, in fact, for the first time in my life, I barely even think about food any more. We have evolved to live off fat, which is why our body can store it so well, and use it as fuel.

We didn't evolve to live on processed carbs and sugars, and before agriculturists selected grain plants that bear a lot of grains, they were just grass blowing in the wind. I get my 20ish gm of carbs from leafy greens and the like. It's funny that so many people will criticise eating this way, yet never said a word when I was stuffing myself with pizza, ice cream and beer.

I did a 2.5hr cycle ride last night, and didn't even feel hungry when I got home. On a carb-based diet I would be stuffing myself the minute I got in the door. Give it a go for a month if you would like to try it, do some reading on the net and go into it with an open mind.

markdavy1982

Hey its my first day at trying a ketogenic diet and the idea of being able to eat fatty meats and cheese sounds amazing. Still have a lot to learn and probably a tough time weening of the carb cravings but looking forward to seeing results.

Always welcome a friend add as long as your going to be positive about my choice.

lucy529

I came accross this and had to read as i was recently introduced to keto and decided to try it. gotta say am loving it then last week i had a break and ate a ton of carbs it did not take long for me to feel like crap and my RA to start to act up. i began back on keto 3 days ago and feel amazing. i go on a bike ride that can go anywhere from 2 hours to 4 hours and when i get home am not heading straight to the fridge in search of food i take my time in cooking my meal and feel great the rest of the day.

i gotta admit when i was first told about this i had my reservations as we are always taught that fat is "bad" my hubby wondered how this was going to be any different than what i have tried. i must admit that i lost my first 30 lbs doing something else which now am no longer able to afford keto is totally doable and am enjoying everything about it

feel free to add me

OkieTink

i gotta admit when i was first told about this i had my reservations as we are always taught that fat is "bad"

Yea, had a hard time wrapping my brain around using butter and whatnot when cooking but the chocolate/peanut butter fat bomb I just ate was *heavenly*

007FatSlayer

Like a slightly modified Atkin's diet...doesn't sound healthy nor sustainable for long term (just my opinion)