Ketogenic Diet
Replies
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Dude, YOU don't have any muscle, and you look to be around 6% bodyfat.
1) i'm about 9% body fat
2) we have different definitions of "having muscle"0 -
Post up your stats then.
EDIT: It's obvious you're an ectomorph. You have a hard time putting on muscle mass naturally, and you stay lean easily.
I'm an metso/endo so I have an easier time putting on mass and a harder time taking off fat. This is why I am not worried about my muscle. I know with proper dieting and exercise I know I can put on mass with reduced fat gain. You, as an ectomorph, do not have that luxury. You have to worry about preserving muscle mass because for you, it is easy to lose it and hard to keep/gain.0 -
Post up your stats then
what stats? i'm not sure what you're looking for... or why you're looking for it.
I just wanted to point out that you don't believe a person can build muscle on keto yet you're trying to get to 6% body fat, which can only happen if you build muscle or starve yourself.0 -
Post up your stats then
what stats? i'm not sure what you're looking for... or why you're looking for it.
I just wanted to point out that you don't believe a person can build muscle on keto yet you're trying to get to 6% body fat, which can only happen if you build muscle or starve yourself.
That's not true...build muscle or starve yourself? How about, shed fat with a sensible caloric deficit and maintain the muscle mass you already have?0 -
Again with the jackie chan meme.
Muscle mass has NOTHING to do with being able to get to 6% bodyfat.
You must be a professional troll or a completely misguided.
By the way, "stats" mean your measurements:
Weight
Height
Neck, arm, chest, waist, thigh measurements.
Christian Bale - The Machinist. No muscle mass, really low bodyfat.
0 -
Post up your stats then
what stats? i'm not sure what you're looking for... or why you're looking for it.
I just wanted to point out that you don't believe a person can build muscle on keto yet you're trying to get to 6% body fat, which can only happen if you build muscle or starve yourself.
That's not true...build muscle or starve yourself? How about, shed fat with a sensible caloric deficit and maintain the muscle mass you already have?
obviously. i don't know if you read the whole conversation. dude is eating 1500 cal while his BMR is 1800. that won't maintain the muscle he already has.0 -
Again with the jackie chan meme.
Muscle mass has NOTHING to do with being able to get to 6% bodyfat.
You must be a professional troll or a completely misguided.
By the way, "stats" mean your measurements:
Weight
Height
Neck, arm, chest, waist, thigh measurements.
Christian Bale - The Machinist. No muscle mass, really low bodyfat.
muscle mass has everything to do with getting to 6% body fat in a healthful manner. because guess what? the only way to have low body fat is to have high lean body mass. you can increase lbm by growing muscle through exercise and - wait for it - eating more.
you can eat at your TDEE and drop body fat simply by building muscle and eating a high fat diet.0 -
Post up your stats then
what stats? i'm not sure what you're looking for... or why you're looking for it.
I just wanted to point out that you don't believe a person can build muscle on keto yet you're trying to get to 6% body fat, which can only happen if you build muscle or starve yourself.
That's not true...build muscle or starve yourself? How about, shed fat with a sensible caloric deficit and maintain the muscle mass you already have?
obviously. i don't know if you read the whole conversation. dude is eating 1500 cal while his BMR is 1800. that won't maintain the muscle he already has.
well, I wasn't responding to the misguided and completely illogical approach of a man eating 1500 calories in an attempt to get down to 6% bodyfat. I was responding to your post.0 -
Post up your stats then
what stats? i'm not sure what you're looking for... or why you're looking for it.
I just wanted to point out that you don't believe a person can build muscle on keto yet you're trying to get to 6% body fat, which can only happen if you build muscle or starve yourself.
That's not true...build muscle or starve yourself? How about, shed fat with a sensible caloric deficit and maintain the muscle mass you already have?
obviously. i don't know if you read the whole conversation. dude is eating 1500 cal while his BMR is 1800. that won't maintain the muscle he already has.
well, I wasn't responding to the misguided and completely illogical approach of a man eating 1500 calories in an attempt to get down to 6% bodyfat. I was responding to your post.
haha in a vacuum you were absolutely right. in this case, not so much.0 -
muscle mass has everything to do with getting to 6% body fat in a healthful manner. because guess what? the only way to have low body fat is to have high lean body mass. you can increase lbm by growing muscle through exercise and - wait for it - eating more.
you can eat at your TDEE and drop body fat simply by building muscle and eating a high fat diet.
Again, like our previous argument, post a legit source. Show me some correlation between muscle mass and fat loss.
Maybe you think muscle helps burn fat because muscle uses calories. From the website in your own profile:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-many-calories-does-muscle-really-burn-and-why-its-not-about-calories-anyway/a pound of muscle, at rest, burns about six calories per day
6 calories. So even if I used steroids, HGH, insulin, IGF-1, et. al. and put on 100 pounds of muscle, I'm only burning 600 extra calories in a 24 hour period. Many people can burn that in a 90 minutes or less doing cardio.0 -
um, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.muscle mass has everything to do with getting to 6% body fat in a healthful manner. because guess what? the only way to have low body fat is to have high lean body mass. you can increase lbm by growing muscle through exercise and - wait for it - eating more.
you can eat at your TDEE and drop body fat simply by building muscle and eating a high fat diet.
Again, like our previous argument, post a legit source. Show me some correlation between muscle mass and fat loss.
Maybe you think muscle helps burn fat because muscle uses calories. From the website in your own profile:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-many-calories-does-muscle-really-burn-and-why-its-not-about-calories-anyway/a pound of muscle, at rest, burns about six calories per day
6 calories. So even if I used steroids, HGH, insulin, IGF-1, et. al. and put on 100 pounds of muscle, I'm only burning 600 extra calories in a 24 hour period. Many people can burn that in a 90 minutes or less doing cardio.
clear?0 -
um, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.0 -
possibly the worst of the worst!! do NOT DO IT:) terrible unhealthy and just plain STUPID!
hope this helps:_)
Kristian Rocco nyc
Yea, cuz' ICE CREAM PIZZA PASTA BEER WINE AND CHOCOLATE is uber healthy.
For something that is the worst of the worst and terribly unhealthy I have never felt better <shrug>
Because the opposite of keto is eating ice cream, pizza, pasta, beer, wine and chocolate for every meal?
The way people on keto talk about keto REALLY puts me off ever trying it. When you say you are skeptical about it and dont think it's sustainable they go CRAZY on you and start sounding like a cult member, it's awful.
LMAO. It is equally ridiculous for you to say that it's unhealthy, unsustainable, etc when YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH IT.
That's the kind of talk that drives me CCCRRRAAAAAAAZZZZZYYYYYY.
Do you see any kind of problem with forming an opinion about something that you have no experience with? No, you probably don't, and you'll be in the majority of people in the general forum. :grumble:0 -
um, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.0 -
um, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.
Steroids, noobs to lifting, coming back after a long lay off from lifting or if you're obese. Otherwise it's unlikely muscle will be built during a deficit0 -
That's the kind of talk that drives me CCCRRRAAAAAAAZZZZZYYYYYY.
Do you see any kind of problem with forming an opinion about something that you have no experience with? No, you probably don't, and you'll be in the majority of people in the general forum. :grumble:
LOLLERCOASTER
Do you have to be gay to have an opinion on gay marriage? Do you have to have worked in national government to have an opinion on national politics? Do you have to have fought in a war to have an opinion on war?0 -
um, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.
Steroids, noobs to lifting, coming back after a long lay off from lifting or if you're obese. Otherwise it's unlikely muscle will be built during a deficit
you just gave a lot of scenarios where muscle is build while in a deficit.
if you eat right around your TDEE, eat a high fat diet (so your body gets all its fat needs through diet), and lift heavy, you can build muscle WHILE dropping body fat % simultaneously. this is not because you're lowering the amount of fat in your body, but because you're increasing your LBM, which will offset your body fat %.
it's really simple actually.0 -
um, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.
Steroids, noobs to lifting, coming back after a long lay off from lifting or if you're obese. Otherwise it's unlikely muscle will be built during a deficit
you just gave a lot of scenarios where muscle is build while in a deficit.
if you eat right around your TDEE, eat a high fat diet (so your body gets all its fat needs through diet), and lift heavy, you can build muscle WHILE dropping body fat simultaneously. this is not because you're lowering the amount of fat in your body, but because you're increasing your LBM, which will offset your body fat %.
it's really simple actually.
Contradicting yourself as always. You're either lowering the amount of body fat or you're not. bf% =/= bf0 -
um, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.
Steroids, noobs to lifting, coming back after a long lay off from lifting or if you're obese. Otherwise it's unlikely muscle will be built during a deficit
you just gave a lot of scenarios where muscle is build while in a deficit.
if you eat right around your TDEE, eat a high fat diet (so your body gets all its fat needs through diet), and lift heavy, you can build muscle WHILE dropping body fat simultaneously. this is not because you're lowering the amount of fat in your body, but because you're increasing your LBM, which will offset your body fat %.
it's really simple actually.
Contradicting yourself as always. You're either lowering the amount of body fat or you're not. bf% =/= bf
jesus man i didn't include the word "percentage" or use "%" but I assumed you knew what I meant. i know i shouldn't do that. I'll edit.0 -
That's the kind of talk that drives me CCCRRRAAAAAAAZZZZZYYYYYY.
Do you see any kind of problem with forming an opinion about something that you have no experience with? No, you probably don't, and you'll be in the majority of people in the general forum. :grumble:
LOLLERCOASTER
Do you have to be gay to have an opinion on gay marriage? Do you have to have worked in national government to have an opinion on national politics? Do you have to have fought in a war to have an opinion on war?
Yup, you are always here to imply that personal experience doesn't matter when forming an opinion. You are absolutely hilarious. :laugh:
Yes, to understand something fully, experience is necessary. No, I don't have an opinion on gay marriage because I'm not gay. No I don't understand war because I've never been there. Pretty logical to me to avoid forming strong opinions when I don't know what I'm talking about. But not so for everyone. Too bad.0 -
That's the kind of talk that drives me CCCRRRAAAAAAAZZZZZYYYYYY.
Do you see any kind of problem with forming an opinion about something that you have no experience with? No, you probably don't, and you'll be in the majority of people in the general forum. :grumble:
LOLLERCOASTER
Do you have to be gay to have an opinion on gay marriage? Do you have to have worked in national government to have an opinion on national politics? Do you have to have fought in a war to have an opinion on war?
Yup, you are always here to imply that personal experience doesn't matter when forming an opinion. You are absolutely hilarious. :laugh:
Yes, to understand something fully, experience is necessary. No, I don't have an opinion on gay marriage because I'm not gay. No I don't understand war because I've never been there. Pretty logical to me to avoid forming strong opinions when I don't know what I'm talking about. But not so for everyone. Too bad.
You're the one that has made the laughable statement that opinions aren't valid unless you have firsthand experience with it. Strong reading comprehension to think I don't think personal experience matters when forming an opinion though0 -
sorry broum, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.
Steroids, noobs to lifting, coming back after a long lay off from lifting or if you're obese. Otherwise it's unlikely muscle will be built during a deficit
you just gave a lot of scenarios where muscle is build while in a deficit.
if you eat right around your TDEE, eat a high fat diet (so your body gets all its fat needs through diet), and lift heavy, you can build muscle WHILE dropping body fat % simultaneously. this is not because you're lowering the amount of fat in your body, but because you're increasing your LBM, which will offset your body fat %.
it's really simple actually.
I understand what you are trying to say but...
That method is not effective at all due to the fact that you can only gain 1-1.5 lbs a month if you are NOT a seasoned lifter.
People have an association with fat and your body knowing its something bad.
I am sure if you are fat enough that you could probably gain muscle and lose fat at the same time due to the fuel availability your body has.
It would be more efficient to cut down and do a controlled bulk
What you are suggesting is a controlled bulk0 -
sorry broum, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.
Steroids, noobs to lifting, coming back after a long lay off from lifting or if you're obese. Otherwise it's unlikely muscle will be built during a deficit
you just gave a lot of scenarios where muscle is build while in a deficit.
if you eat right around your TDEE, eat a high fat diet (so your body gets all its fat needs through diet), and lift heavy, you can build muscle WHILE dropping body fat % simultaneously. this is not because you're lowering the amount of fat in your body, but because you're increasing your LBM, which will offset your body fat %.
it's really simple actually.
I understand what you are trying to say but...
That method is not effective at all due to the fact that you can only gain 1-1.5 lbs a month if you are NOT a seasoned lifter.
People have an association with fat and your body knowing its something bad.
I am sure if you are fat enough that you could probably gain muscle and lose fat at the same time due to the fuel availability your body has.
It would be more efficient to cut down and do a controlled bulk
What you are suggesting is a controlled bulk
not effective for what? it all depends what your goals are.
can we at least all agree that a 6'2" man eating 1500 cal/day will never get to 6% body fat?
0 -
can we at least all agree that a 6'2" man eating 1500 cal/day will never get to 6% body fat?
You still have not explained WHY and cited sources!
Here is an excerpt from Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0If your goal is maximal fat loss, these are the days to really cut calories... Cutting this value by 50% is the goal (so if your maintenance is normally 3000 calories/day, you'd cut that to 1500 cal/day). In general, nobody should go below 1200 calories/day as it becomes simply impossible to get enough protein or micronutrients and stay full.
Lyle McDonald is highly respected in the nutrition world, and here he has a publication in which where he suggests eating at 1500 calories.
1500 calorie consumption? Check. Above the "no one should eat less than 1200 calories/day"? Check.
Reconfirmation that you don't know what you're saying? Check0 -
can we at least all agree that a 6'2" man eating 1500 cal/day will never get to 6% body fat?
You still have not explained WHY and cited sources!
Here is an excerpt from Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0If your goal is maximal fat loss, these are the days to really cut calories... Cutting this value by 50% is the goal (so if your maintenance is normally 3000 calories/day, you'd cut that to 1500 cal/day). In general, nobody should go below 1200 calories/day as it becomes simply impossible to get enough protein or micronutrients and stay full.
Lyle McDonald is highly respected in the nutrition world, and here he has a publication in which where he suggests eating at 1500 calories.
1500 calorie consumption? Check. Above the "no one should eat less than 1200 calories/day"? Check.
Reconfirmation that you don't know what you're saying? Check
since you didn't have a link, i'm going to go off what Lyle said.
he said "these are the days to really cut calories"
isn't he referring to someone who's body building and cutting to get to their competition composition? otherwise I feel he would have phrased it differently. context is important.0 -
sorry broum, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.
Steroids, noobs to lifting, coming back after a long lay off from lifting or if you're obese. Otherwise it's unlikely muscle will be built during a deficit
you just gave a lot of scenarios where muscle is build while in a deficit.
if you eat right around your TDEE, eat a high fat diet (so your body gets all its fat needs through diet), and lift heavy, you can build muscle WHILE dropping body fat % simultaneously. this is not because you're lowering the amount of fat in your body, but because you're increasing your LBM, which will offset your body fat %.
it's really simple actually.
I understand what you are trying to say but...
That method is not effective at all due to the fact that you can only gain 1-1.5 lbs a month if you are NOT a seasoned lifter.
People have an association with fat and your body knowing its something bad.
I am sure if you are fat enough that you could probably gain muscle and lose fat at the same time due to the fuel availability your body has.
It would be more efficient to cut down and do a controlled bulk
What you are suggesting is a controlled bulk
not effective for what? it all depends what your goals are.
can we at least all agree that a 6'2" man eating 1500 cal/day will never get to 6% body fat?
but the deficit that someone goes on is relative to their amount of fat.
Plus 6% is not something people that arent competing should aim for. That cant be sustained for too long and I dont know why anyone would want to be at that bodyfat %. That is straight up contest prep and people who even compete for bodybuilding dont stay there for that long0 -
You gotta own the book (available in eBook or print) http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20
And what does it matter what who he is referring to? This book is about cutting down to sub 12% bodyfat levels, beit athletes, bodybuilder, or the average joe.0 -
sorry broum, i'm not saying increasing muscle mass encourages fat loss (though it does - just wasn't the point i was making), i'm saying that if you increase muscle mass, you will have a lower body fat by default because your lean body mass will be higher.
clear?
Your concept is backwards, you don't gain muscle to lose body fat.
Tell me how you gain lean muscle mass. Caloric surplus. What happens when you have a caloric surplus with exercise? Muscle and fat gain.
Even if a genie could magically pack on 50 pounds of fat-free muscle mass, I'm still carrying around 57 pounds of fat. You still need a caloric deficit to lose fat.
you can build muscle at a deficit bro. lol you don't understand how any of this actually works.
Steroids, noobs to lifting, coming back after a long lay off from lifting or if you're obese. Otherwise it's unlikely muscle will be built during a deficit
you just gave a lot of scenarios where muscle is build while in a deficit.
if you eat right around your TDEE, eat a high fat diet (so your body gets all its fat needs through diet), and lift heavy, you can build muscle WHILE dropping body fat % simultaneously. this is not because you're lowering the amount of fat in your body, but because you're increasing your LBM, which will offset your body fat %.
it's really simple actually.
I understand what you are trying to say but...
That method is not effective at all due to the fact that you can only gain 1-1.5 lbs a month if you are NOT a seasoned lifter.
People have an association with fat and your body knowing its something bad.
I am sure if you are fat enough that you could probably gain muscle and lose fat at the same time due to the fuel availability your body has.
It would be more efficient to cut down and do a controlled bulk
What you are suggesting is a controlled bulk
not effective for what? it all depends what your goals are.
can we at least all agree that a 6'2" man eating 1500 cal/day will never get to 6% body fat?
but the deficit that someone goes on is relative to their amount of fat.
Plus 6% is not something people that arent competing should aim for. That cant be sustained for too long and I dont know why anyone would want to be at that bodyfat %. That is straight up contest prep and people who even compete for bodybuilding dont stay there for that long
then talk to this guy who's defending his 1500 cal to the death. :laugh:
Jay, for right now 1500 will work for you in the short term because you're obese. As you lose weight and get more fit, it will stop working for you. Obviously you don't believe me and the rest of those who believe in thermodynamics, but you'll figure it out at some point.0 -
6% is not a realistic goal to be at if you arent going to compete
Now remember these are people with decent muscle at the lower %. Sorry Jay but you look like you are skinny fat based off of your pictures and you will be cutting down to a stick0 -
You gotta own the book (available in eBook or print) http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20
And what does it matter what who he is referring to? This book is about cutting down to sub 12% bodyfat levels, beit athletes, bodybuilder, or the average joe.
haha there are incredibly different nutritional needs for someone who's 10% body fat to drop to 8% vs someone who's 30% body fat to drop to 20% because the obese person's body will burn fat stores for energy, while the fit person's body will burn MUSCLE for energy in order to protect the small amount of fat stores!
one size does not fit all.0
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