I Am Adam Lanzas Mother
Replies
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I'll probably get a bunch of grief for this but here it goes:
There are larger issues at play here. Call it evil. Call it a mental disorder the bottom line things like this happen because of social issues and are much more complex than simple cause and effect.
"Under the most atrocious conditions, only a tiny percentage of people react by committing suicide or lashing out homicidally against others. Those who commit mass killings have specific psychic histories and serious disorders, but the disorders have their ultimate source in existing social relationships and the prevailing social atmosphere.
A wave may strike every portion of a levee with equal force, but the latter breaks at its weakest point. The most vulnerable personalities succumb to the immense social pressures, each in his or her unique fashion, but the ultimate responsibility lies with the crisis-ridden and decayed social order, not the individual who gives way."
No grief here... The issue most of us were speaking of here, though, is the lack of available, cohesive treatment for our children before that levee breaks. My children were adopted and came with a trauma history when they arrived. One of the best things for them is to treat them while they are still young before it gets to a situation like the one in the news. Treatment. Pure and simple. Instead, most of us have our hands tied. I did not cause the problems from which my children suffer. They longer they go without adequate treatment, the greater the disconnect.0 -
How hard must it be for parents to watch their own kids grow up and see, that they are becoming a danger to society?
If like in this article the mother has asked several times for help and find a solution to the mental illness of her son and just as many times walkes into no answers and "we cannot help you" , then how must she feel as a parent?
Knowing, there is nothing she can do, maybe not even saving her other children or herself from being killed by her own child!
Or what if the kid choose to kill other people and children and then society turns to her and will blame her for being a "bad" parent, when in fact she had asked for help!
Someone posted this:
Don't mind the haters, always making excuses for devilish acts. If the parents know their kids are dangerous then they should know what to do about them to protect innocent people.
He's an adult and will surely face Gods judgement for killing innocent children, it's easy for us to talk about mental illness or make excuses as none of our kids was killed. God will surly have mercy on this generation.
What really got to me was the "If parents know their kids are dangerous, they should know what to do about them"!
I say no even parents do not know the answer to everything! I would blame them, IF they have never asked for professional help and their kids were threatening, but in the article case even a mother who asked multiple time for help only got: Sorry we do not know the answer or even harsher, get your kid into a prison if you want help!
Sorry, but the last seems not really help at all!!!0 -
The evidence is in the act...unless we want to believe that the devil made him do it.
There is no evidence in the act. Indication yes, but no evidence.
You seem to be trolling a topic that has nothing to do with you. I'm sure you could start your own thread. There are several of us on here who have chosen to discuss the mental health issue. I invite you to kindly back away and demonstrate some level of respect for others.
:flowerforyou:0 -
For the sick young man who committed the crime. I share her/your/everyone's compassion for the victims, but I have to say, that's the easy compassion.
Blaming his actions on evil, or bad parenting, or godlessness is just an easy way of pushing reality aside so it doesn't have to be dealt with.
Instead of waiting around for "evil" to manifest in the form of mass murder, we could be looking for ways of identifying and helping the mentally ill so the mass murder doesn't happen.
Hiding behind black and white concepts, avoiding compassion for the mentally ill, just ensures the cycle will continue and more "evil" acts will follow.
Right, and if you look back I never said he didn't have a mental disability. He may or may not have, we will not know because he was never diagnosed or they are not releasing that information yet. Everyone is saying he had a mental illness like it's a fact, and I was just pointing out that it is not.0 -
The evidence is in the act...unless we want to believe that the devil made him do it.
There is no evidence in the act. Indication yes, but no evidence.
You seem to be trolling a topic that has nothing to do with you. I'm sure you could start your own thread. There are several of us on here who have chosen to discuss the mental health issue. I invite you to kindly back away and demonstrate some level of respect for others.
It has a lot to do with me. Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll stick around.0 -
Dear OP - I can't thank you enough for starting this discussion. The events have clearly touched a nerve with several of us and probably many more. Unfortunately, while jokes and fun are part of MFP, and I'm certainly guilty at times, I think this topic is of a particularly grave nature and therefore, may I suggest we move this to a private group? Given that you are the OP, would you be willing to start one?0
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The evidence is in the act...unless we want to believe that the devil made him do it.
There is no evidence in the act. Indication yes, but no evidence.
You seem to be trolling a topic that has nothing to do with you. I'm sure you could start your own thread. There are several of us on here who have chosen to discuss the mental health issue. I invite you to kindly back away and demonstrate some level of respect for others.
It has a lot to do with me.
The Troll has a point there...
(ooh! I couldn't help myself...)0 -
The evidence is in the act...unless we want to believe that the devil made him do it.
There is no evidence in the act. Indication yes, but no evidence.
You seem to be trolling a topic that has nothing to do with you. I'm sure you could start your own thread. There are several of us on here who have chosen to discuss the mental health issue. I invite you to kindly back away and demonstrate some level of respect for others.
It has a lot to do with me.
*giggle* The Troll has a point there...
(ooh! I couldn't help myself...)
I've reported it. Its my first. I generally think trolls add a lot but this one seems to lack even the most minimal level of decency.0 -
For the sick young man who committed the crime. I share her/your/everyone's compassion for the victims, but I have to say, that's the easy compassion.
Blaming his actions on evil, or bad parenting, or godlessness is just an easy way of pushing reality aside so it doesn't have to be dealt with.
Instead of waiting around for "evil" to manifest in the form of mass murder, we could be looking for ways of identifying and helping the mentally ill so the mass murder doesn't happen.
Hiding behind black and white concepts, avoiding compassion for the mentally ill, just ensures the cycle will continue and more "evil" acts will follow.
Right, and if you look back I never said he didn't have a mental disability. He may or may not have, we will not know because he was never diagnosed or they are not releasing that information yet. Everyone is saying he had a mental illness like it's a fact, and I was just pointing out that it is not.
Ok, one more response then I have to back away to preserve what's left of my sanity, not to mention my civility.
This thread is predicated on the notion that he was mentally ill. If we believed he was evil, we would be discussing exorcisms instead of mental health. When you pop in and say, you know what, sometimes they're just evil, you are working to invalidate the premise of the discussion.
Even granting that this one person was not mentally ill, we do know that most people who commit these sorts of crimes are indeed mentally ill. Our discussion on mental illness is therefore valid and worth our time and effort. Your asserting the possibility of evil in this one case is not in any positive way contributing to the conversation.
You can have the last word. I won't respond again.0 -
The evidence is in the act...unless we want to believe that the devil made him do it.
There is no evidence in the act. Indication yes, but no evidence.
You seem to be trolling a topic that has nothing to do with you. I'm sure you could start your own thread. There are several of us on here who have chosen to discuss the mental health issue. I invite you to kindly back away and demonstrate some level of respect for others.
It has a lot to do with me.
*giggle* The Troll has a point there...
(ooh! I couldn't help myself...)
You have called me stupid and a troll for having a different opinion than you, you are being hypersensitive and completely childish. I have mental illness in my immediate family (cue the "oh she must be the one with the mental illness *giggle*" joke), so I am very familiar with mental illness.
My opinion just happens to be that of the minority.0 -
State run hospitals were shuttered because they are the most inhumane places ever conceived to warehouse and sedate (not treat) the mentally ill.
More importantly, we should recognize that the state institutions have not been shuttered...they've just be re-labeled as prisons. And instead of any kind of treatment, the patients are subjected to the state's loving care in that environment.
State run facilities do exist, some of which look like college housing rather than prisons and some of which even house only children, at least here in Missouri. I know many people that work at three different facilities here around town. These facilities do treat some criminally insane but that is not their only client base. They are not all prison like where cleints are drugged heavily.
Also, kudos to the person who realized the risk that their guns could pose and put the safety of their family ahead of keeping their guns at home. It could not have been an easy decision and I applaud them for making what I am sure was at least a thought provoking choice.
ETA - fixed typo0 -
I've reported it. Its my first. I generally think trolls add a lot but this one seems to lack even the most minimal level of decency.
Was the report something like this "She doesn't agree with the majority of us and this makes me sad"0 -
Also, kudos to the person who realized the risk that their guns could pose and put the safety of their family ahead of keeping their guns at home. It could not have been an easy decision and I applaud them for making what I am sure was at least a though provoking choice.
In the end, it was an easy choice.
The logic was undeniable. Although I do not believe it to be the case in the general public, in my home, guns were more of a danger to the occupants than to potential aggressors.0 -
My best friend has an autistic son who is now a young adult. I have watched her struggles in finding appropriate care for him and come to terms with the facts that he will never have what most people consider a normal life, and now try to equip him for the day when eventually she will not be there to care for him. It is difficult.0
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State run hospitals were shuttered because they are the most inhumane places ever conceived to warehouse and sedate (not treat) the mentally ill.
More importantly, we should recognize that the state institutions have not been shuttered...they've just be re-labeled as prisons. And instead of any kind of treatment, the patients are subjected to the state's loving care in that environment.
State run facilities do exist, some of which look like college housing rather than prisons and some of which even house only children, at least here in Missouri. I know many people that work at three difference facilities here around town. These facilities do treat some criminally insane but that is not their only client base. They are not all prison like where cleints are drugged heavily.
Also, kudos to the person who realized the risk that their guns could pose and put the safety of their family ahead of keeping their guns at home. It could not have been an easy decision and I applaud them for making what I am sure was at least a though provoking choice.
You are very correct. The only problem with those facilities is that they are very expensive and insurance companies do anything they can not to pay for them. I belong to a support group of parents whose children have mental and emotional illnesses. the majority are denied over and over until AFTER the child has done significant harm. This is where I see a problem. to tell a mother she is not safe in her own home from her child and yet deny them Residential treatment is unjust. To tel a parent to call the police on their mentally ill child is unfathomable BUT, it happens everyday. Eventually, some parents become too exhausted to parent and think clearly. It's hard to be a parent and in survival mode 24/7.0 -
If there are any "positives" to come from the tragedy in Newtown having more discussion, awareness, and THOUGHTFUL allocation of resources to community mental health is certainly one of them. The challenges are so great and the resources so inadequate to the need. And the entrenched bureaucratic processes that make our institutions so hard to change are showcased in spades in many mental health hospitals where patients needs are not well met. Shining a light on these challenges is so important.0
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The evidence is in the act...unless we want to believe that the devil made him do it.
There is no evidence in the act. Indication yes, but no evidence.
You seem to be trolling a topic that has nothing to do with you. I'm sure you could start your own thread. There are several of us on here who have chosen to discuss the mental health issue. I invite you to kindly back away and demonstrate some level of respect for others.
It has a lot to do with me.
*giggle* The Troll has a point there...
(ooh! I couldn't help myself...)
You have called me stupid and a troll for having a different opinion than you, you are being hypersensitive and completely childish. I have mental illness in my immediate family (cue the "oh she must be the one with the mental illness *giggle*" joke), so I am very familiar with mental illness.
My opinion just happens to be that of the minority.
You admitted that you did not even read the thread, and you offered an opinion on something we were not discussing, then tried arguing and justifying the point which was off topic.0 -
You admitted that you did not even read the thread, and you offered an opinion on something we were not discussing, then tried arguing and justifying the point which was off topic.
Didn't think I had to read the 5 pages of thread to address the OP. My point is on topic, it's just another point of view.0 -
Thanks for sharing. Powerful, powerful article...0
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You admitted that you did not even read the thread, and you offered an opinion on something we were not discussing, then tried arguing and justifying the point which was off topic.
Didn't think I had to read the 5 pages of thread to address the OP. My point is on topic, it's just another point of view.
Hah! No. You must read all the branches the conversation has taken and respond only to the current THREAD not the original post. Silly Dani. Don't you know how forums work? :P0 -
You admitted that you did not even read the thread, and you offered an opinion on something we were not discussing, then tried arguing and justifying the point which was off topic.
Didn't think I had to read the 5 pages of thread to address the OP. My point is on topic, it's just another point of view.
Hah! No. You must read all the branches the conversation has taken and respond only to the current THREAD not the original post. Silly Dani. Don't you know how forums work? :P
Ain't nobody gots time fo that!0 -
Ain't nobody gots time fo that!
Especially you. You're too busy being awesome for that nonsense. :P
But yeah. Thanks for sharing your minority opinion. I appreciated the diversity.0 -
Compassion???
Don't mind the haters, always making excuses for devilish acts. If the parents know their kids are dangerous then they should know what to do about them to protect innocent people.The evidence is in the act...unless we want to believe that the devil made him do it.
There is no evidence in the act. Indication yes, but no evidence.
He's an adult and will surely face Gods judgement for killing innocent children, it's easy for us to talk about mental illness or make excuses as none of our kids was killed. God will surly have mercy on this generation.
Here we are, speaking of mental illness, and a prime example volunteers a demonstration.
So are you saying this poster has a mental illness for believing in God or for disagreeing with you? You are just a peach!
I'm saying her sickness is her very un-christian lack of compassion.
I think we have more mentally sick than sane adults on this planet than we are ready to admit, I pray you never fall a victim. It's easy for you to speak big grammars here to justify an act like this, any trigger happy kid with issues who goes on killing spree is said to be mentally ill, may God provide a cure before we are all sent to an untimely death, Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeen.0 -
i work in a mental health home for youth.
the justice system OFTEN fails our children.
the child doesn't belong in jail, and though my clients frequent the jail here,
we do our best to get them out as soon as possible.
they don't have the same resources as they do on the outside.
there are so many resources (at least here in canada) for struggling children and families, and honestly, i think they are just unknown.
i work in a strength based unit, which means we do not punish or restrain (unless for a serious threat)
and our success rate is amazing.
part of it, i think also, is that parents need to get over their pride and ask for help.
you didn't fail as a parent because your child is different.
different isn't bad.
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Ain't nobody gots time fo that!
Especially you. You're too busy being awesome for that nonsense. :P
But yeah. Thanks for sharing your minority opinion. I appreciated the diversity.
Being awesome is a full time job! lol
I'm glad you can see it for what it is, an opinion, that I am entitled to. 0 -
I also found this to be a very powerful and thought provoking piece.0
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I haven't previously made comment about this situation but I am very surprised at the reaction I must say.
You're right, mental health needs to be taken seriously and families like this need support. 100% agree.
What I don't agree with is putting a gun in the hands of someone with known mental health issues and showing them how to use it. That is astonishingly irresponsible.0 -
I agree. People with mental health issues should be taken very seriously. I too can relate because my Stepson has aspergers and has attacked me a few times. He's on medicine for aggression but I still have fears about him. He's not a bad guy but he has some violent issues and he doesn't like to take no for an answer.0
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I do no beleive the problem is the firearms themselves.
As I watch, read, and watch some more I have come to realize that mental illness is the problem at hand.
I think we need to look, study, and figure out why so many people are getting this sick.
However, teaching a person, who you know has problems like this guy did, was the wrong move.
What ever the mothers reason was, she did. I'm just very..torn between this subject.
Thank you for the link.0 -
I haven't previously made comment about this situation but I am very surprised at the reaction I must say.
You're right, mental health needs to be taken seriously and families like this need support. 100% agree.
What I don't agree with is putting a gun in the hands of someone with known mental health issues and showing them how to use it. That is astonishingly irresponsible.
Read my blog. In our case my father had his guns under lock and key and actively tried to keep my brother from obtaining one. Seems no one listened. My brother got into the military, and then upon being thrown out, got a gun for his job. Shockingly stupid, right? You see what families need most in these situations is for someone to actually listen to them. The problem is that people like my brother was are incredibly manipulative and charming. Ever so charming.0
This discussion has been closed.
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