Calling out all of you IIFYM Preachers

icmuse · April 2013

And there we go again.

In my country we call these kinds of arguments: Žabomyší válka:

Batrachomyomachia (Ancient Greek: Βατραχομυομαχία, from βάτραχος, frog, μῦς, mouse, and, μάχη, battle) or the Battle of Frogs and Mice is a comic epic or parody of the Iliad, definitely attributed to Homer by the Romans, but according to Plutarch the work of Pigres of Halicarnassus, the brother (or son) of Artemisia, queen of Caria and ally of Xerxes.[1] Some modern scholars, however, assign it to an anonymous poet of the time of Alexander the Great.[2]

The word batrachomyomachia has come to mean "a silly altercation".

Penny_Lane_ · April 2013

show previous quotes

I....I am so confused.

Jonny tells the truth. The other stuff is broscience.

If I want to fit my macros eating arbys and m & ms ill do it, but I realize that A) Ill probably blow my wad on calories and not get what I need by doing that.

The point that Johnny is trying to make is that you shouldnt have to sacrifice things you love because YOU think that we should eat clean. Eating clean is not maintainable for ME. Its just not. I do like eating Arbys sometimes and I do like drinking beer most times ( ) and if I have some calories left over to do those things, by god, I am going to do it!

this is why jonny is dangerous on this site... people believe him even though there are studies and evidence that show eating processed meat, trans fats, and other ingredients found in fast food can lead to everything from heart disease to cognitive malfunction.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63/abstract
http://consumer.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=670153
http://www.news-medical.net/news/20111228/Fatty-food-and-brain-damage-Study-finds-connection.aspx

but because it fits your macros, you're fine.

GMAFB

Are those peer reviewed studies? Do they follow these guidelines?

1. Plagiarism
2. Misuse of Privileged Information
3. Data
a. Integrity of Data
b. Use and Misuse of Data
c. Ownership of and Access to Data
d. Storage and Retention of Data
4. Authorship and Other Publication Issues
a. Criteria for Authorship
b. Order of Authors
c. Self-citations
d. Duplicate Publication
e. Accessibility of Publications
f. Early Release of Information About to be Published
5. Interference
6. Obligation to Report
a. Reporting Suspected Misconduct
b. Correction of Errors
7. Curriculum Vitae
8. Conflict of Interest
9. Responsibilities of a Research Investigator
10. Responsibilities to Funding Agencies
11. Special Obligations in Human Subject Research

CoachReddy · April 2013

show previous quotes

Why worry so much about what other people are doing? And better yet, why do you feel a need to label the way you eat by saying that you "Do IIFYM" or "Paleo" or "clean" or any of that? Just eat what you personally feel like eating and let others do the same. Who cares if someone else isn't eating the way that YOU think they should be eating based on a silly description?

I could say that I also do IIFYM or that I eat 95% "clean" unprocessed foods, blah blah blah... but it's unnecessary and exhausting to try to fit into a box like that. Heaven forbid that I say I eat "clean" and then I decide one day on a whim to have a Coke Zero because I'm really in the mood for one. Oh no! My whole identity is wrapped up in my dietary doctrine and now I'm not longer a true "clean eater"!

I'm being a bit facetious but you see my point; labels are silly, and worrying about OTHER people's dietary labels and whether or not they give something a 'bad name' is just a waste of your energy, don't you think? You didn't invent the term "IIFYM" so I don't see why you have such a personal sense of pride regarding the subject.

Very well put.

so then stop giving advice if you think that was very well put.

You're the one who harps about labels like "clean."

I talk about nutrients. Those are the things that are actually important.

damnit. i'm leaving after this one.

i talk about micronutrients AND macronutrients. you talk about macronutrients, end stop.

PEACE!

DatMurse · April 2013

I dont know how many of actually read the part where I said eliminating a food group is not a way to live and that moderation is the key.

I bolded it.

I dont see anything unhealthy or even unsatisfying about eating a cheeseburger

I drink diet drinks
I drink water

I eat sweet potatoes
I eat french fries

I drink my alcohol
I drink my protein shake

I think most of you are missing my point of watching your micronutrient intake as well.

IronSmasher · April 2013

More importantly, have you seen what people are calling kettlebells these days?

Also, I actually haven't seen this thread before, or anyone telling anyone else to eat junk food except in moderation.

lauren3101 · April 2013

show previous quotes

You need to stop preaching the whole bull**** about it doesnt matter about what food you eat.
I have followed IIFYM for a long time, before it became a big fad,(no hipster)
IT should be IIFYMAM! If it fits your macros and micronutrients!
It does matter, you do need to hit the MICRONUTRIENT targets regardless.
You cannot obtain all of it from a multivitamin

You are drifting from the original point of IIFYM. it allows moderation and is sustainable. It wasnt meant for you to eat mcdonalds everyday and throw in a protein shake to hit your daily amounts.

Another factor is for those who are cutting. They food that is chosen for the paleo diet is the most ideal food for helping you diet due to the satiety.

There is some truth behind paleo diet. Regardless if I think eliminating food groups from your diet is not a way to live.

Meat and potatoes will always be superb due to the fulfilling of calorie for calorie. I am still waiting for more satiety studies to be published.

its like comparing a bagel to a donut. both of it provides a crap fullness but 1 bagel is much more filling than a donut, which is about the same calories.
you would have to eat about 1.5 donuts to get the filling that 1 bagel would provide you. so you would be consuming 2x the calories.

Dont get me wrong. Calories will determine if we lose weight or not. That is not the only key player in sustaining a cut though. Hunger plays a huge role.

You are destroying the IIFYM name and original cause. You need to understand that moderation is the key for everything and you are no better than all of the other diet extremists.

Agree and disagree.

Nutrients obviously play a huge part in health, but you have to bear in mind that some people can't just jump straight on the 'get healthy' bandwagon and eat 100% healthy foods. Sometimes it takes a little time.

Too many people go straight to a fad diet or a meal plan, and get told they can't eat this, and they can't eat that. You say moderation is the key, yet you are missing the point that IIFYM is all about moderation. It's telling people that yes, you can have that McDonalds, but only x amount of calories worth.

The idea (hopefully), is that further down the line, said McDonalds eater realises that it's not filling them up, and starts to try healthier options. That's what happened to me.

At the end of the day, if someone is making changes in an attempt to lose weight and get healthier, than bravo to them regardless of whether that means a McDonalds every day.

Do you even know what I am talking about? I never mentioned eating 100% healthy foods.

I know you didn't, it was just just an example. Would you like me to change it to '80% healthy foods' and then maybe you could read the rest of my post and see what I was trying to say?

Sounds to me like you just got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning tbh.

newdaydawning79 · April 2013

Who wants to join me on the couch?

I have something for everyone! Organic fruit salad and popcorn drizzled in dark chocolate!

jonnythan · April 2013

i think HE believes that in order to hit your macros for friendly body comp, you will end up eating a lot of "clean" foods by default (ie: whole foods)

but keep twisting the words to make them apply to you. the reality is this. you wear fast food, fatty food, and high-sugar food as a badge of honor on your ticker. you're EXACTLY the person Layne Norton is referring to.

i'm done though. i'm bored. got a busy day.

and there was much rejoicing!

So am I not hitting macros friendly for body comp, or am I eating a lot of clean foods?

If I'm hitting the macros, I'm eating a lot of clean food.

So which is it?

cwolfman13 · April 2013

This is stupid..I have a 40/30/30 macro goal and I watch certain micros as well for health reasons...I cannot eat a bunch of junk food an meet my macro goals. However, I can eat a lot of nutritionally dense, whole foods and still have a piece of ****ing cake. Again..this is just stupid and I don't know why it comes up about once per week. Most people who do IIFYM eat pretty damned clean relative to the SAD. I don't know anyone who does IIFYM and just eats **** all the time.

billsica · April 2013

Can't we all get along and go find a HGC or Alli thread to go beat up on? :smokin: :sad:

CupcakesAndRazorblades · April 2013

this thread makes my brain hurt.....

Cr01502 · April 2013

Why worry so much about what other people are doing? And better yet, why do you feel a need to label the way you eat by saying that you "Do IIFYM" or "Paleo" or "clean" or any of that? Just eat what you personally feel like eating and let others do the same. Who cares if someone else isn't eating the way that YOU think they should be eating based on a silly description?

I could say that I also do IIFYM or that I eat 95% "clean" unprocessed foods, blah blah blah... but it's unnecessary and exhausting to try to fit into a box like that. Heaven forbid that I say I eat "clean" and then I decide one day on a whim to have a Coke Zero because I'm really in the mood for one. Oh no! My whole identity is wrapped up in my dietary doctrine and now I'm not longer a true "clean eater"!

I'm being a bit facetious but you see my point; labels are silly, and worrying about OTHER people's dietary labels and whether or not they give something a 'bad name' is just a waste of your energy, don't you think? You didn't invent the term "IIFYM" so I don't see why you have such a personal sense of pride regarding the subject.

I like you.

Also, I think that you touch on a very important point here. I see alot of people who identify themselves as paleo and "clean eaters" really struggle to adhere to this. They either are paleo for a year or two and give it up or they become Paleo Nazis and restrict themselves socially to avoid certain foods. Which, in my opinion, is an unhealthy outlook on food.

I've been on this site for quite sometime and I don't think I've ever seen someone suggesting eating nothing but donuts, fried ice cream, and whey protein for breakfast lunch and dinner. The whole point of IIFYM is to have a well balanced diet, hit your macros, get adequate fiber and vitamins, and be able to enjoy life a little bit.

BeachIron · April 2013

I dont know how many of actually read the part where I said eliminating a food group is not a way to live and that moderation is the key.

I bolded it.

I dont see anything unhealthy or even unsatisfying about eating a cheeseburger

I drink diet drinks
I drink water

I eat sweet potatoes
I eat french fries

I drink my alcohol
I drink my protein shake

I think most of you are missing my point of watching your micronutrient intake as well.

I honestly don't think anyone is missing this or (substantively) disagrees with you. This has largely turned into a semantic game that is fun to watch but largely unproductive. Okay, back to watching the shenanigans.

DatMurse · April 2013

show previous quotes

You need to stop preaching the whole bull**** about it doesnt matter about what food you eat.
I have followed IIFYM for a long time, before it became a big fad,(no hipster)
IT should be IIFYMAM! If it fits your macros and micronutrients!
It does matter, you do need to hit the MICRONUTRIENT targets regardless.
You cannot obtain all of it from a multivitamin

You are drifting from the original point of IIFYM. it allows moderation and is sustainable. It wasnt meant for you to eat mcdonalds everyday and throw in a protein shake to hit your daily amounts.

Another factor is for those who are cutting. They food that is chosen for the paleo diet is the most ideal food for helping you diet due to the satiety.

There is some truth behind paleo diet. Regardless if I think eliminating food groups from your diet is not a way to live.

Meat and potatoes will always be superb due to the fulfilling of calorie for calorie. I am still waiting for more satiety studies to be published.

its like comparing a bagel to a donut. both of it provides a crap fullness but 1 bagel is much more filling than a donut, which is about the same calories.
you would have to eat about 1.5 donuts to get the filling that 1 bagel would provide you. so you would be consuming 2x the calories.

Dont get me wrong. Calories will determine if we lose weight or not. That is not the only key player in sustaining a cut though. Hunger plays a huge role.

You are destroying the IIFYM name and original cause. You need to understand that moderation is the key for everything and you are no better than all of the other diet extremists.

Agree and disagree.

Nutrients obviously play a huge part in health, but you have to bear in mind that some people can't just jump straight on the 'get healthy' bandwagon and eat 100% healthy foods. Sometimes it takes a little time.

Too many people go straight to a fad diet or a meal plan, and get told they can't eat this, and they can't eat that. You say moderation is the key, yet you are missing the point that IIFYM is all about moderation. It's telling people that yes, you can have that McDonalds, but only x amount of calories worth.

The idea (hopefully), is that further down the line, said McDonalds eater realises that it's not filling them up, and starts to try healthier options. That's what happened to me.

At the end of the day, if someone is making changes in an attempt to lose weight and get healthier, than bravo to them regardless of whether that means a McDonalds every day.

Do you even know what I am talking about? I never mentioned eating 100% healthy foods.

I know you didn't, it was just just an example. Would you like me to change it to '80% healthy foods' and then maybe you could read the rest of my post and see what I was trying to say?

Sounds to me like you just got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning tbh.

Did I say anything about eating 100% healthy food?
Did i say 20%?

I said moderation. I didnt put numbers. I didnt say clean food.

I am trying to understand what you said you disagreed about

AdoraK · April 2013

I have my own acronym

IEWWFM

I eat what works for me!!

carlysuzanne85 · April 2013

Who wants to join me on the couch?

I have something for everyone! Organic fruit salad and popcorn drizzled in dark chocolate!

I'd like some of both please!

_Witsy_ · April 2013

I dont know how many of actually read the part where I said eliminating a food group is not a way to live and that moderation is the key.

I bolded it.

I dont see anything unhealthy or even unsatisfying about eating a cheeseburger

I drink diet drinks
I drink water

I eat sweet potatoes
I eat french fries

I drink my alcohol
I drink my protein shake

I think most of you are missing my point of watching your micronutrient intake as well.

Your post was fine... totally got it...and makes some good points...however, the point of your post, IMO, got lost along the way by many due to the constant bickering of the couple in this thread.. I personally think they need counseling.. but eh...what do I know.

JossFit · April 2013

show previous quotes

Why worry so much about what other people are doing? And better yet, why do you feel a need to label the way you eat by saying that you "Do IIFYM" or "Paleo" or "clean" or any of that? Just eat what you personally feel like eating and let others do the same. Who cares if someone else isn't eating the way that YOU think they should be eating based on a silly description?

I could say that I also do IIFYM or that I eat 95% "clean" unprocessed foods, blah blah blah... but it's unnecessary and exhausting to try to fit into a box like that. Heaven forbid that I say I eat "clean" and then I decide one day on a whim to have a Coke Zero because I'm really in the mood for one. Oh no! My whole identity is wrapped up in my dietary doctrine and now I'm not longer a true "clean eater"!

I'm being a bit facetious but you see my point; labels are silly, and worrying about OTHER people's dietary labels and whether or not they give something a 'bad name' is just a waste of your energy, don't you think? You didn't invent the term "IIFYM" so I don't see why you have such a personal sense of pride regarding the subject.

Because I was there when it started fully emerging.
It is the fact people are spreading false information and making it sound like micronutrient intake does not matter at all.
what label are you actually talking about?

Micronutrient intake is a key factor in people's health.
There are also factors that play a role including heavy metals, phytochemicals. antioxidants, etc

but to state that the food doesnt matter is a little extreme

I don't disagree with the idea behind IIFYM, nor do I disagree that micronutrients are vitally important in one's diet. I stated that I also would consider myself to be an IIFYM-er.

However I again ask why it's so important to you that people fit in this little box or that they do things the way you think they should. "I've been doing it a long time" is hardly a reason to be so up in arms over it IMO, but on that note my opinion doesn't matter when it comes to YOUR feelings anymore than YOUR feelings matter when it comes to someone else's diet or, in this case, classification of their diet.

I'm not trying to argue what IIFYM or CLEAN or any of that is, because I know what the terms imply. I'm simply advising that you relax before you give yourself a stroke because someone called their McD's heavy diet "IIFYM". :drinker:

_chiaroscuro · April 2013

Griffin220x · April 2013

:drinker:

Something to entertain me at work. Please do go on. :bigsmile:

LoraF83 · April 2013

This is stupid..I have a 40/30/30 macro goal and I watch certain micros as well for health reasons...I cannot eat a bunch of junk food an meet my macro goals. However, I can eat a lot of nutritionally dense, whole foods and still have a piece of ****ing cake. Again..this is just stupid and I don't know why it comes up about once per week. Most people who do IIFYM eat pretty damned clean relative to the SAD. I don't know anyone who does IIFYM and just eats **** all the time.

Agreed.

I have yet to come across anyone on this site who says "Oh, IIFYM - just eat a ton of junk food and make it work."

It's usually more like "Make good choices most of the time and you can fit a treat in too." I don't see anything wrong with that. But this whole thread is just about one guy having an issue with another guy and trying to make him a scapegoat against personal food issues/beliefs.

escloflowneCHANGED · April 2013

show previous quotes

I....I am so confused.

Jonny tells the truth. The other stuff is broscience.

If I want to fit my macros eating arbys and m & ms ill do it, but I realize that A) Ill probably blow my wad on calories and not get what I need by doing that.

The point that Johnny is trying to make is that you shouldnt have to sacrifice things you love because YOU think that we should eat clean. Eating clean is not maintainable for ME. Its just not. I do like eating Arbys sometimes and I do like drinking beer most times ( ) and if I have some calories left over to do those things, by god, I am going to do it!

this is why jonny is dangerous on this site... people believe him even though there are studies and evidence that show eating processed meat, trans fats, and other ingredients found in fast food can lead to everything from heart disease to cognitive malfunction.

I think you're much more dangerous to this site, your idea of health is what will make people give up and forget all about getting healthy. You can still enjoy unhealthy foods and be healthy, what you're saying is pure BRO science and you should be ashamed of yourself!

DatMurse · April 2013

show previous quotes

Why worry so much about what other people are doing? And better yet, why do you feel a need to label the way you eat by saying that you "Do IIFYM" or "Paleo" or "clean" or any of that? Just eat what you personally feel like eating and let others do the same. Who cares if someone else isn't eating the way that YOU think they should be eating based on a silly description?

I could say that I also do IIFYM or that I eat 95% "clean" unprocessed foods, blah blah blah... but it's unnecessary and exhausting to try to fit into a box like that. Heaven forbid that I say I eat "clean" and then I decide one day on a whim to have a Coke Zero because I'm really in the mood for one. Oh no! My whole identity is wrapped up in my dietary doctrine and now I'm not longer a true "clean eater"!

I'm being a bit facetious but you see my point; labels are silly, and worrying about OTHER people's dietary labels and whether or not they give something a 'bad name' is just a waste of your energy, don't you think? You didn't invent the term "IIFYM" so I don't see why you have such a personal sense of pride regarding the subject.

Because I was there when it started fully emerging.
It is the fact people are spreading false information and making it sound like micronutrient intake does not matter at all.
what label are you actually talking about?

Micronutrient intake is a key factor in people's health.
There are also factors that play a role including heavy metals, phytochemicals. antioxidants, etc

but to state that the food doesnt matter is a little extreme

I don't disagree with the idea behind IIFYM, nor do I disagree that micronutrients are vitally important in one's diet. I stated that I also would consider myself to be an IIFYM-er.

However I again ask why it's so important to you that people fit in this little box or that they do things the way you think they should. "I've been doing it a long time" is hardly a reason to be so up in arms over it IMO, but on that note my opinion doesn't matter when it comes to YOUR feelings anymore than YOUR feelings matter when it comes to someone else's diet or, in this case, classification of their diet.

I'm not trying to argue what IIFYM or CLEAN or any of that is, because I know what the terms imply. I'm simply advising that you relax before you give yourself a stroke because someone called their McD's heavy diet "IIFYM". :drinker:

I wont give myself a stroke. I am simply burning time. I type like an *kitten*, but for some reason that is part of my online persona. I am not like this in person.

I cant say the same for some people such as lyle mcdonald, who is one of my favorite nutritionists. I am letting you know now I am not actually mad.

yourenotmine · April 2013

Who wants to join me on the couch?

I have something for everyone! Organic fruit salad and popcorn drizzled in dark chocolate!

Ooh, ooh, hold some of that popcorn for me. And fruit salad if there's no melon. Melon = yucky.

newdaydawning79 · April 2013

show previous quotes

Who wants to join me on the couch?

I have something for everyone! Organic fruit salad and popcorn drizzled in dark chocolate!

I'd like some of both please!

Come on over! :flowerforyou:

newdaydawning79 · April 2013

show previous quotes

Who wants to join me on the couch?

I have something for everyone! Organic fruit salad and popcorn drizzled in dark chocolate!

Ooh, ooh, hold some of that popcorn for me. And fruit salad if there's no melon. Melon = yucky.

I'll pick out the melon just for you!! :laugh:

Penny_Lane_ · April 2013

show previous quotes

Why worry so much about what other people are doing? And better yet, why do you feel a need to label the way you eat by saying that you "Do IIFYM" or "Paleo" or "clean" or any of that? Just eat what you personally feel like eating and let others do the same. Who cares if someone else isn't eating the way that YOU think they should be eating based on a silly description?

I could say that I also do IIFYM or that I eat 95% "clean" unprocessed foods, blah blah blah... but it's unnecessary and exhausting to try to fit into a box like that. Heaven forbid that I say I eat "clean" and then I decide one day on a whim to have a Coke Zero because I'm really in the mood for one. Oh no! My whole identity is wrapped up in my dietary doctrine and now I'm not longer a true "clean eater"!

I'm being a bit facetious but you see my point; labels are silly, and worrying about OTHER people's dietary labels and whether or not they give something a 'bad name' is just a waste of your energy, don't you think? You didn't invent the term "IIFYM" so I don't see why you have such a personal sense of pride regarding the subject.

Because I was there when it started fully emerging.
It is the fact people are spreading false information and making it sound like micronutrient intake does not matter at all.
what label are you actually talking about?

Micronutrient intake is a key factor in people's health.
There are also factors that play a role including heavy metals, phytochemicals. antioxidants, etc

but to state that the food doesnt matter is a little extreme

I don't disagree with the idea behind IIFYM, nor do I disagree that micronutrients are vitally important in one's diet. I stated that I also would consider myself to be an IIFYM-er.

However I again ask why it's so important to you that people fit in this little box or that they do things the way you think they should. "I've been doing it a long time" is hardly a reason to be so up in arms over it IMO, but on that note my opinion doesn't matter when it comes to YOUR feelings anymore than YOUR feelings matter when it comes to someone else's diet or, in this case, classification of their diet.

I'm not trying to argue what IIFYM or CLEAN or any of that is, because I know what the terms imply. I'm simply advising that you relax before you give yourself a stroke because someone called their McD's heavy diet "IIFYM". :drinker:

I wont give myself a stroke. I am simply burning time. I type like an *kitten*, but for some reason that is part of my online persona. I am not like this in person.

I cant say the same for some people such as lyle mcdonald, who is one of my favorite nutritionists. I am letting you know now I am not actually mad.

Dude you are nerd raging on my screen...

theryan244 · April 2013

No reasonable proponent of flexible dieting advocates overlooking micros or fiber. Just ****ing drop this argument, I'm sick of hearing it. True flexible dieting does not insists you "just get all of your calories from McDonalds," or some bull**** like this, so just stop.

downsizinghoss · April 2013

Crap. This doesn't mean I have to put back on the last 138 pounds and start over, does it?

DatMurse · April 2013

show previous quotes

I dont know how many of actually read the part where I said eliminating a food group is not a way to live and that moderation is the key.

I bolded it.

I dont see anything unhealthy or even unsatisfying about eating a cheeseburger

I drink diet drinks
I drink water

I eat sweet potatoes
I eat french fries

I drink my alcohol
I drink my protein shake

I think most of you are missing my point of watching your micronutrient intake as well.

Your post was fine... totally got it...and makes some good points...however, the point of your post, IMO, got lost along the way by many due to the constant bickering of the couple in this thread.. I personally think they need counseling.. but eh...what do I know.

But that is my point.

People focused on that one single sentence but they didnt look at what the whole story was about.

Boy who cried wold
"omg no one saved him when he cried wold, those people are horrid"
But did they even understand why no one came?

Calling out all of you IIFYM Preachers

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