what's too much protein when bulking?

roverdisc98
roverdisc98 Posts: 78 Member
in Food and Nutrition
in order to gain mass you need protein, but what is too much? i've heard lots of different opinions
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Replies

  • diodelcibo
    diodelcibo Posts: 2,564 Member
    If you're going over a gram per lb of bodyweight (assuming you are less than 20% body fat) it's maybe too much.
  • CaptainHNNNGGG
    CaptainHNNNGGG Posts: 205 Member
    1G per 1 pound of LBM is usually enough
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    I don't think there is "too much", but there comes a point where there is no advantage of taking in anymore. I have seen some studies posted here.
  • bspurrie
    bspurrie Posts: 5 Member
    I have also been told that most people can't absorb much more than 30 grams of protein at a time. So the point would be that if you are taking in anymore than that at a time it will pass through. Makes you take a more balanced approach instead of trying to do it all at once.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    Unless you have some sort of medical condition you probably cant eat to much BUT there is only so much you need for muscle growth and repair. Anything beyond that amount will simply be turned into energy and used or stored.

    You can only make so much muscle and more protein than you need will not increase this.
  • Bettyeditor
    Bettyeditor Posts: 327 Member
    I just read a good recommendation yesterday (my nutritionist also uses this formula):
    * Divide your bodyweight by 2.2 to get your bodyweight in kilograms, then multiply by 1.4
    * For example: 200 lbs / 2.2 = 90.90 x 1.4 = 127 grams of protein a day.

    This is the formula that you would use if you are doing weight training to build muscle but eating at a deficit to lose fat (this ratio should protect from losing lean muscle mass).

    If you are just bulking, you can eat a bit less, like perhaps multiple by 1.2 instead of 1.4 (in the 200 lbs example, that would be 109g).

    ---
    Another way to calculate it is to measure your bodyfat so that you know your lean body mass. Then eat at least 1 gram of protein for pound of lean body mass. Let's say 200 lbs man at 18% bodyfat is 164 lbs of lean body mass.

    ---
    As you can see, there is more than one way to calculate protein. But the bottom line is that if you are doing a bulk (eating surplus calories to build muscle mass), its hard to get too much protein. You would have to eat a truly huge amount to start putting any strain on your liver or kidneys. Its far more common to be eating too little protein.
  • roverdisc98
    roverdisc98 Posts: 78 Member
    my daily average protein intake is around 1/2gram of body weight but I want to double the intake and put me around 150+ daily grams

    i'm doing this in order to gain muscle mass while lifting heavy. is this a bad plan?
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
    If you're eating around 1 gram per pound and it's not too hard to stick with you're probably fine. The common figure thrown around is 1 gram per pound of lean body mass but to me that always felt a bit low. I like 1 gram per pound of total body weight.

    If you're doing 3 or 4 times your body weight in grams of protein, that's probably a waste of time.

    As outlier examples, I recall a documentary of Kaz where he talks about taking in 4 or 5 hundred grams a day, and I know Poundstone takes in a helluva lot too, but I still think it's overkill for all but maybe the most elite. Further for both of those guys even at 5 hundred grams that's still only about 2x body weight (and really, if you're a Kaz or a KK or a Cap'n Kirk...eat whatever the hell you want).
  • benflando
    benflando Posts: 193
    Go 1.5 per pound of bodyweight.
  • Sul3i
    Sul3i Posts: 553 Member
    Bump to read later
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    I have also been told that most people can't absorb much more than 30 grams of protein at a time. So the point would be that if you are taking in anymore than that at a time it will pass through. Makes you take a more balanced approach instead of trying to do it all at once.
    That's a myth that will never die. Think about it. A 250 LB bodybuilder can only absorb as much protein as a 130 LB female at one meal.
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    my daily average protein intake is around 1/2gram of body weight but I want to double the intake and put me around 150+ daily grams

    i'm doing this in order to gain muscle mass while lifting heavy. is this a bad plan?
    I would increase it. Macro nutrient % are going out the window. Instead follow one of these approaches:
    1. Proteins 1 gram per Lean body Mass (LBM), Fats .4 to .5 grams per LBM, The rest of calories will come from carbs.
    2. Protein 1 gram per LB of body weight, Fats .4 to .5 grams per LB of body weight, The rest of calories from carbs.

    The first approach you will be eating less carbs and fats then the second but you will be eating more carbs.
    Or even as ben suggested go up to 1.5 per LB.
  • j6o4
    j6o4 Posts: 871 Member
    im bulking with 35% protein 40% carbs 25% fats
  • takumaku
    takumaku Posts: 352 Member
    I would suggest finding what works for you. Your body is unique and all nutrition can do is provide a general recommendation.

    For some of us with medical conditions, the amount of protein we eat exceed what is typically posted.
  • BarackMeLikeAHurricane
    BarackMeLikeAHurricane Posts: 3,400 Member
    "It has been observed that the human liver cannot safely metabolise much more than 285-365 g of protein per day (for an 80 kg person), and human kidneys are similarly limited in their capability to remove urea (a byproduct of protein catabolism) from the bloodstream. Exceeding that amount results in excess levels of amino acids, ammonia (hyperammonemia), and/or urea in the bloodstream, with potentially fatal consequences,[1] especially if the person switches to a high-protein diet without giving time for the levels of his or her hepatic enzymes to upregulate. Since protein only contains 4 kcal/gram, and a typical adult human requires in excess of 1900 kcal to maintain the energy balance, it is possible to exceed the safe intake of protein if one is subjected to a high-protein diet with little or no fat or carbohydrates. However, given the lack of scientific data on the effects of high-protein diets, and the observed ability of the liver to compensate over a few days for a shift in protein intake, the US Food and Nutrition Board does not set a Tolerable Upper Limit nor upper Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Range for protein.[2] Furthermore, medical sources such as UpToDate[3] do not include listings on this topic." 

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation
  • takumaku
    takumaku Posts: 352 Member
    "It has been observed that the human liver cannot safely metabolise much more than 285-365 g of protein per day (for an 80 kg person), and human kidneys are similarly limited in their capability to remove urea (a byproduct of protein catabolism) from the bloodstream. Exceeding that amount results in excess levels of amino acids, ammonia (hyperammonemia), and/or urea in the bloodstream, with potentially fatal consequences,[1] especially if the person switches to a high-protein diet without giving time for the levels of his or her hepatic enzymes to upregulate. Since protein only contains 4 kcal/gram, and a typical adult human requires in excess of 1900 kcal to maintain the energy balance, it is possible to exceed the safe intake of protein if one is subjected to a high-protein diet with little or no fat or carbohydrates. However, given the lack of scientific data on the effects of high-protein diets, and the observed ability of the liver to compensate over a few days for a shift in protein intake, the US Food and Nutrition Board does not set a Tolerable Upper Limit nor upper Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Range for protein.[2] Furthermore, medical sources such as UpToDate[3] do not include listings on this topic." 

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

    The research treats all forms of proteins as one. It is well known the protein found in plant and dairy is handled differently than animal based protein. At one time 30% of one's calorie intake from protein was consider high. Now, 30% is considerate a moderate intake.
  • roverdisc98
    roverdisc98 Posts: 78 Member
    So in order to increase my protein that means an increase in total calories. If I increase 100g by shakes that'd be almost 600 additional daily calories. Of course fish or chicken may be a tad less.

    What do you guys say about the increased caloric intake?
  • missADS1981
    missADS1981 Posts: 364 Member
    Go 1.5 per pound of bodyweight.

    this is what I do.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,185 Member
    So in order to increase my protein that means an increase in total calories. If I increase 100g by shakes that'd be almost 600 additional daily calories. Of course fish or chicken may be a tad less.

    What do you guys say about the increased caloric intake?
    What we actually need to gain muscle mass are calories, so yeah, eat more. Carbs are the best way to increase mass as long as your getting adequate protein. Funnily enough we need more protein when in a deficit than we need in a bulk. I g/lb/lbm is sufficent unless your juicing, which I'm sure your not, right?
  • skinnyinnotime
    skinnyinnotime Posts: 4,078 Member
    So in order to increase my protein that means an increase in total calories. If I increase 100g by shakes that'd be almost 600 additional daily calories. Of course fish or chicken may be a tad less.

    What do you guys say about the increased caloric intake?

    I don't understand why your calories would go up..you just make sure you balance your macros.
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
    So in order to increase my protein that means an increase in total calories. If I increase 100g by shakes that'd be almost 600 additional daily calories. Of course fish or chicken may be a tad less.

    What do you guys say about the increased caloric intake?

    ...

    Increasing protein doesn't necessarily mean you have to increase calories. You eat it instead of something else. Too much is the amount that would put you over your ideal calorie range or the amount that would make it too difficult to sustain your diet.
  • roverdisc98
    roverdisc98 Posts: 78 Member
    not juicing

    rtalencar85...how many grams of protein do you get each day and how many total calories? Only asking because I know you lift heavy and I want to put it into perspective
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
    i'd echo that there isn't really a 'too much' just a point where more is pointless.

    I've also heard you can only digest/absorb so many grams of protein in one sitting, i think thats a myth tho.

    IMO 1 gram per lbs of body weight is the bare minimium. all i know is that when i'm eating at a defecit, i got to eat more protein then that or my bench press goes way down. Does that mean i'm losing more muscle, idk but it sucks none the less.

    i've never eatten to grow (at least not in a controlled sense lol) it could be that a lot of protein is less important when your getting enough calories.
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    not juicing

    rtalencar85...how many grams of protein do you get each day and how many total calories? Only asking because I know you lift heavy and I want to put it into perspective
    If you know or have a good idea of your bodyfat use the Katch-Mcardle formula. If not use the Harris Benedict model. Both of these can be found in the google search.
  • funforsports
    funforsports Posts: 2,656 Member
    If you are looking to gain mass, eat at least 1 g/lb bw or 1 g/lb lbm. That really is a minimum. I eat 1.5 g/lb bw daily.
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
    not juicing

    rtalencar85...how many grams of protein do you get each day and how many total calories? Only asking because I know you lift heavy and I want to put it into perspective

    I aim to stay under 2500 calories a day and I try to get about 200 grams of protein per day. Sometimes I don't make it and sometimes I go way over. 200 is the goal though.
  • roverdisc98
    roverdisc98 Posts: 78 Member
    I aim to stay under 2500 calories a day and I try to get about 200 grams of protein per day. Sometimes I don't make it and sometimes I go way over. 200 is the goal though.

    10-4 I appreciate everyone's input.
  • aelunyu
    aelunyu Posts: 486 Member
    This is probably more dependent on your genetics. which is why most people will issue a blanket statement like 1g per lb of LBM or 1.5 "to be safe". That range will cover the wide variances in genetic nutrient partitioning and how efficiently we process amino acids varying from one person to the next.

    I don't think the key to a successful bulk is protein. As most people have said on here, 1 g per pound is going to be enough. The more important question here is..."how many carbs can I cram into my daily intake?"

    Carbs (read energy), are what will fuel your progression. Protein in ample amounts rebuilds your muscles. Given you have enough protein, more will not give you any added recovery or benefit. However, increasing carbohydrate has a scaling effect to work output, which is basically what will determine how much muscle adaptation will take place.

    just my two cents.
  • roverdisc98
    roverdisc98 Posts: 78 Member
    I don't think the key to a successful bulk is protein. As most people have said on here, 1 g per pound is going to be enough. The more important question here is..."how many carbs can I cram into my daily intake?"

    Carbs (read energy), are what will fuel your progression. Protein in ample amounts rebuilds your muscles. Given you have enough protein, more will not give you any added recovery or benefit. However, increasing carbohydrate has a scaling effect to work output, which is basically what will determine how much muscle adaptation will take place.


    What are some excellent food choices when it comes to carbs?
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    I have also been told that most people can't absorb much more than 30 grams of protein at a time. So the point would be that if you are taking in anymore than that at a time it will pass through. Makes you take a more balanced approach instead of trying to do it all at once.

    You've been told an old bro's tale :)

    OP, have a look at these:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/protein-controversies.html
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/protein-requirements-for-strength-and-power-athletes.html

    There are some dangers associated with eating a lot of protein if you have existing kidney problems. There are plenty of athletes who eat well in excess of 1 g per pound of body weight and do not suffer any ill effects, but the evidence of benefits of very high protein intakes (3g per lb) is controversial.

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