Ketogenic Diet
Replies
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You gotta own the book (available in eBook or print) http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20
And what does it matter what who he is referring to? This book is about cutting down to sub 12% bodyfat levels, beit athletes, bodybuilder, or the average joe.
You clearly haven't read it.Please note: the UD2 is an advanced diet for advanced dieters and is only for those seeking very low levels of body fat. A male should be at 12-15% body fat or lower and females at 21-24% body fat or lower prior to considering the UD2. As well trainees must have at least 6 months of consistent training in the weight room under their belt before they even consider the UD2.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-200 -
You gotta own the book (available in eBook or print) http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20
And what does it matter what who he is referring to? This book is about cutting down to sub 12% bodyfat levels, beit athletes, bodybuilder, or the average joe.
You clearly haven't read it.Please note: the UD2 is an advanced diet for advanced dieters and is only for those seeking very low levels of body fat. A male should be at 12-15% body fat or lower and females at 21-24% body fat or lower prior to considering the UD2. As well trainees must have at least 6 months of consistent training in the weight room under their belt before they even consider the UD2.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20
ouch.0 -
I never said I was following the book.
I cited the 1500 calorie/day to prove Reddy, who claimed one should never go below BMR, that it's fine to go below BMR.
Reddy said 2 things:
Never go below BMR.
Can't reach 6% BF eating below BMR.
Neither of which has he backed up with fact. Which he's constantly skirting.
Editing to add:
So when I do reach 12% bodyfat, I (may) follow McDonald's dieting/training routine. frankly, I'm more intrigued by LeanGain's/IF simplistic approach and most likely will do that.0 -
I never said I was following the book.
I cited the 1500 calorie/day to prove Reddy, who claimed one should never go below BMR, that it's fine to go below BMR.
Reddy said 2 things:
Never go below BMR.
Can't reach 6% BF eating below BMR.
Neither of which has he backed up with fact. Which he's constantly skirting.
i said you can go below your BMR initially if you're obese and looking to lose fast, but you will plateau and need to start eating above your BMR to continue your progress.0 -
Wow this thread is way to overly opinionated when it just consists of a diet. I studied Keto for a bit before I decided to try it for good and by study I mean I spoke to those at my gym before I started going to Google and checking out forums. My body is a Mesomorph so I have no problems gaining muscle and keeping tone with little to no effort. I'm 36 years old and back in the 90's I worked out for long periods of times and had 6% or less of body fat. I was not educated in what I was doing and did not have a very solid source to turn to other than the gym rats who would tell me, drink liquid amino's or go to GNC and buy half the shelf of everything.
I took my experience over the years and looked at my eating patterns and amount I worked out versus how active I was outside of the gym. The Keto diet had a clarity to it that works and makes the most sense to me but unfortunately not to others. I read about people getting sick and having bad symptoms and then feeling fine. I have yet to experience any sickness at all and in fact have felt fine if not better since lowering my carbs to the level it is.
I used the cavemanketo.com to configure MFP to 5% carbs (24g) and I typically abide by that except on days I decide to cycle. And my story is that I started at 235lbs around April 8th and now I am 225lbs and steady losing weight. I am not always under 24g of carb for my daily value and also I am not on a specific workout schedule. My caloric intake is 1940 and all other settings are the same according to the cavemanketo website.
The reason I bring this up is because it works. I do not workout enough to lose this weight off the limited calories alone. And four mile walks occasionally with the girlfriend hardly constitutes as a suspect. So I can only assume through the ketostix I use that my body is acting in accordance to the medically proven data that has been made public about this diet. Say what you will about how bad you might think this diet is, I find it works for my body just fine.
And my picture(s) are of this past summer and I was eating WELL above what any diet would recommend. i would walk 2 miles to the gym with a 50lb rucksack, workout for an hour doing heavy lifting. I would bench two 90lb dumbbells 3 sets and do unassisted body dips, chin-ups, pull-ups. This was effort was 2 years to shed only 30 pounds without any diet plan. I have seen more progress in the few weeks on Keto than the 2 years I spent and the many years before that working out and eating recklessly.0 -
I never said I was following the book.
I cited the 1500 calorie/day to prove Reddy, who claimed one should never go below BMR, that it's fine to go below BMR.
Reddy said 2 things:
Never go below BMR.
Can't reach 6% BF eating below BMR.
Neither of which has he backed up with fact. Which he's constantly skirting.
Editing to add:
So when I do reach 12% bodyfat, I (may) follow McDonald's dieting/training routine.
you are changing it now.
you said it applies to the average joe when it doesnt.
Stop citing things you dont know what you are talking about. now you are just looking like a moron. Since Tobias actually read the book you have nothing to cite off of.
You cant do it because you are still average and you dont look like you have much experience under your belt0 -
I did this and lost weight very fast however put back on a few pounds. The Atkins and South Beach diet is sort of based on this method and I still strive to keep my carbs/sugar intake low by following the South Beach diet menu of phase 1 food. If you can overcome the sugar cravings it will definitely help take off the pounds.0
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Wow this thread is way to overly opinionated when it just consists of a diet. I studied Keto for a bit before I decided to try it for good and by study I mean I spoke to those at my gym before I started going to Google and checking out forums. My body is a Mesomorph so I have no problems gaining muscle and keeping tone with little to no effort. I'm 36 years old and back in the 90's I worked out for long periods of times and had 6% or less of body fat. I was not educated in what I was doing and did not have a very solid source to turn to other than the gym rats who would tell me, drink liquid amino's or go to GNC and buy half the shelf of everything.
I took my experience over the years and looked at my eating patterns and amount I worked out versus how active I was outside of the gym. The Keto diet had a clarity to it that works and makes the most sense to me but unfortunately not to others. I read about people getting sick and having bad symptoms and then feeling fine. I have yet to experience any sickness at all and in fact have felt fine if not better since lowering my carbs to the level it is.
I used the cavemanketo.com to configure MFP to 5% carbs (24g) and I typically abide by that except on days I decide to cycle. And my story is that I started at 235lbs around April 8th and now I am 225lbs and steady losing weight. I am not always under 24g of carb for my daily value and also I am not on a specific workout schedule. My caloric intake is 1940 and all other settings are the same according to the cavemanketo website.
The reason I bring this up is because it works. I do not workout enough to lose this weight off the limited calories alone. And four mile walks occasionally with the girlfriend hardly constitutes as a suspect. So I can only assume through the ketostix I use that my body is acting in accordance to the medically proven data that has been made public about this diet. Say what you will about how bad you might think this diet is, I find it works for my body just fine.
Four miles walking probably burns as many calories (or more) than a weight training session.And my picture(s) are of this past summer and I was eating WELL above what any diet would recommend. i would walk 2 miles to the gym with a 50lb rucksack, workout for an hour doing heavy lifting. I would bench two 90lb dumbbells 3 sets and do unassisted body dips, chin-ups, pull-ups. This was effort was 2 years to shed only 30 pounds without any diet plan. I have seen more progress in the few weeks on Keto than the 2 years I spent and the many years before that working out and eating recklessly.
So you lost more weight by being mindful of your diet than you did when you were eating recklessly? Amazing.
BTW: Nobody is saying that low-carb diets don't work. They can (for some) be an effective way of achieving a caloric deficit. Ketosis is irrelevant.0 -
you are changing it now.
you said it applies to the average joe when it doesnt.
Stop citing things you dont know what you are talking about. now you are just looking like a moron. Since Tobias actually read the book you have nothing to cite off of.
You cant do it because you are still average and you dont look like you have much experience under your belt
The book applies to the following:
Bodybuilders
Athletes
The average joe (at 12-15% BF) looking to get to single digit limits
You sure Tobias read the book? That citation he quoted is right on the webpage I linked to.
It's to the individual person to judge whether I know or don't know what I'm talking about (that whole eye-of-the-beholder thing). But I'm actually putting up sources so people can judge for themselves!0 -
you are changing it now.
you said it applies to the average joe when it doesnt.
Stop citing things you dont know what you are talking about. now you are just looking like a moron. Since Tobias actually read the book you have nothing to cite off of.
You cant do it because you are still average and you dont look like you have much experience under your belt
The book applies to the following:
Bodybuilders
Athletes
The average joe (at 12-15% BF) looking to get to single digit limits
You sure Tobias read the book? That citation he quoted is right on the webpage I linked to.
It's to the individual person to judge whether I know or don't know what I'm talking about (that whole eye-of-the-beholder thing). But I'm actually putting up sources so people can judge for themselves!
you're not at 12-15% body fat.0 -
Did I say I was? My estimated BF is about 28% using wrist size to height to weight calculator.0
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Did I say I was? My estimated BF is about 28% using wrist size to height to weight calculator.
thus the book does not apply to you0 -
Did I say the book applied to me? Did I even say I was following it?
I'll reiterate what I said 3 posts ago
[the reason] "I cited the 1500 calorie/day (from the UD2.0 book) [is to] to prove Reddy, who claimed one should never go below BMR, that it's fine to go below BMR."
If it were not acceptable to go slightly below BMR, ever, it would not have been suggested0 -
Did I say the book applied to me? Did I even say I was following it?
I'll reiterate what I said 3 posts ago
[the reason] "I cited the 1500 calorie/day (from the UD2.0 book) [is to] to prove Reddy, who claimed one should never go below BMR, that it's fine to go below BMR."
If it were not acceptable to go slightly below BMR, ever, it would not have been suggested
so if the book doesn't apply to you, why are you eating 1500 calories a day? coincidence?0 -
If you go back 2 or 3 pages, you'll see that I chose 1500 calories because a 500 calorie deficit from my TDEE of 2000 calories is.... 1500!0
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Bump, to read/reply/look at later
Edit to say: I
my ketogenic way of life.
Feel free to add/message/taunt/friend me :drinker:0 -
If you go back 2 or 3 pages, you'll see that I chose 1500 calories because a 500 calorie deficit from my TDEE of 2000 calories is.... 1500!
I know, the problem is you've got some crazy notion in your head that you only expend 200 calories over the course of your day, which... is not the case.
dude listen, we want you to succeed, that's why we're arguing with you. you'll get better results if you eat more, that's just the reality. with your body comp as it stands, if you lifted heavy 3 days a week and did some sprinting or a bit of HIIT cardio you'd get killer results. Except you have to eat to do it.
do you think that guy you want to look like eats 1500 calories a day? I guarantee he eats at LEAST 3000 maintenance.0 -
do you think that guy you want to look like eats 1500 calories a day? I guarantee he eats at LEAST 3000 maintenance.
You're totally right here. But here's the thing, I do not expect to make a transition from where I am now, to that guy.
I have a 2 step plan: lean out, then go on a separate, caloric surplus diet with resistance training to put on muscle.0 -
do you think that guy you want to look like eats 1500 calories a day? I guarantee he eats at LEAST 3000 maintenance.
You're totally right here. But here's the thing, I do not expect to make a transition from where I am now, to that guy.
I have a 2 step plan: lean out, then go on a separate, caloric surplus diet with resistance training to put on muscle.
why not use the mass you already have and just convert it to muscle...? much simpler. you can do it all at once. you actually aren't very overweight, you just need to do body re-composition, and eating that little won't do the trick.
Eat a slight deficit, lift heavy, do a little bit of cardio, done. One step process.0 -
Because as previously stated, gaining muscle on a cut is not feasible.
Oh and...
Fat does not "convert to muscle".why not use the mass you already have and just convert it to muscle...?0 -
obligatory "keto diets are unsustainable" post
So no different than any other diet then really??? Fact: 95% of people who go on a diet gain it all back within 3 years! Of course, none of this has anything to do with the diet itself but more to do with peoples motivation, willpower and long term commitment and determination to succeed and to genuinely change their lifestyle.
Is it harder to follow than some other diets?? For some maybe, but then again so are many other types of diets. This does not detract from the fact that ketogenic diets and low carb diets can be very effective and if maintained can deliver great results and health benefits and have no adverse effects whatsoever despite what many people like to say to the contrary.
I wonder, how many of the disbelievers have actually even tried it properly? I'm not saying its for everyone and I personally am not on a ketogenic diet at present although I have done in the past and will do again. Point being, just because it might be tough for some people to follow, and just because some people can't stand the thought of living without their daily bread, pasta, rice etc... It does not make it a bad diet!0 -
I know, the problem is you've got some crazy notion in your head that you only expend 200 calories over the course of your day, which... is not the case.
I also want to address this:
How do you know this? Is it possible that the activity factor multiplier is overestimated?
If you say no, then consider this:
My maximum heart rate is 193 beats per minute according to the formula: 220-age=MHR.
I did a set of kettlebell swings yesterday. I am sick, so I took it easy with slow swings. By the end of my 14 minute workout with a work:rest set of 20:60 my heart rate was 172. If you follow the MHR formula, this is 90% of my max heart rate. I should've been collapsed on the floor, gasping for breath, and probably with a faint taste of blood in my mouth.
Yet I continued to walk around, putting my KB away, etc and within 90 seconds, my respiratory function was normal and I felt fine.
Obviously I wasn't at 90% of my MHR and the MHR formula is wrong.
Long story short:
MHR formula isn't accurate. Strong chance activity factor multiplier is inaccurate.0 -
Because as previously stated, gaining muscle on a cut is not feasible.
You were doing soo well... This is one thing I do have to disagree with speaking from experience!
<<<<<<<<< I built all this muscle and got lean whilst on a calorie deficit!0 -
Nice going! Still not sure if it's feasible. Quite probably you already had that muscle and saw it when you leaned up.
What all did you do? Any use of chemicals?0 -
I know, the problem is you've got some crazy notion in your head that you only expend 200 calories over the course of your day, which... is not the case.
I also want to address this:
How do you know this? Is it possible that the activity factor multiplier is overestimated?
If you say no, then consider this:
My maximum heart rate is 193 beats per minute according to the formula: 220-age=MHR.
I did a set of kettlebell swings yesterday. I am sick, so I took it easy with slow swings. By the end of my 14 minute workout with a work:rest set of 20:60 my heart rate was 172. If you follow the MHR formula, this is 90% of my max heart rate. I should've been collapsed on the floor, gasping for breath, and probably with a faint taste of blood in my mouth.
Yet I continued to walk around, putting my KB away, etc and within 90 seconds, my respiratory function was normal and I felt fine.
Obviously I wasn't at 90% of my MHR and the MHR formula is wrong.
Long story short:
MHR formula isn't accurate. Strong chance activity factor multiplier is inaccurate.
i saw a painting where the sky was purple so therefore the sky must actually be purple.
this is what you've just said.
your one isolated, potentially inaccurate assessment of your heart rate throws decades of fitness science out the window. got it.0 -
Because as previously stated, gaining muscle on a cut is not feasible.
Oh and...
Fat does not "convert to muscle".why not use the mass you already have and just convert it to muscle...?
no obviously it doesn't actually convert, it's just a turn of phrase.
but if your body has other fuel sources to burn besides your muscle tissue, it will burn them, thus shedding fat at the same time as your lifting heavy builds muscle size and strength0 -
Hmm, ok how about a New York Times article that validated what I said about the MHR formula being bunk:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/24/health/maximum-heart-rate-theory-is-challenged.html0 -
bump0
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Hmm, ok how about a New York Times article that validated what I said about the MHR formula being bunk:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/24/health/maximum-heart-rate-theory-is-challenged.html
that's interesting and i'll look into it, but what does it have to do with how many calories you burn daily, and thus, your TDEE? how much are you exercising?0 -
Nice going! Still not sure if it's feasible. Quite probably you already had that muscle and saw it when you leaned up.
What all did you do? Any use of chemicals?
Well I can certainly assure you it was not there at the start and definitely no use of 'chemicals'. I lost 40lbs doing a mix of FB and HIIT sessions, ate a high protein and clean diet and to a calorie deficit of 1800 cals a day, only supplements I took was protein shakes, fish oils and multivitamins. Also, in terms of strength gains, these were huge. At my peak I was squatting 145kg for 3 reps ( I only weighed 72kg at the time) was able to do 21 chins and bench press was 110kg for my one rep max. I also did 86 press ups in 60 seconds where at the start I was able to do around 40ish. So yes, it is possible to build muscle while on a calorie deficit! But that was because I was chunky to start with... Once I got lean then yes, my progress would have stalled and I would have had to eat more to build more muscle. But, if you are looking to lose weight then you can burn fat and build muscle at the same time.0
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